Guest DJHope Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Fair enough, not feeling the best, probably just took it took it out on this newsgroup sorry! You let companies get away with it by buying their products the consumer will speak by deciding to buy the phone or not! Im buying one i can handle the pros/cons ratio, its a matter of personal choice, i am as you might be able to tell an optimist, well see!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Play nice children... :roll: P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 It is simple as said, if you don't like the phone, don't buy it! The SPV is the first Smartphone. The release was actually delayed 1 month while the phones were beta tested. You can never get all the bugs out as everyone does different things with their phones. I used one at the beginning of October and believe me it has improoved since then greatly. Microsoft are going to release updates on a regular basis. If you have bugs then call 156 and get them reported, the more bugs that orange are told about the quicker they will get resolved. I am reporting as many as I find on the board so hopefully we will see something happen. Oh, and just to add, you get a 7 day return policy if you do your upgrade via the mail rather than instore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Satans Cyber Kid Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Well i love the phone.....i hope all the little bugs get sorted. i could not be with out this phone. Please stop being to harsh about it. All the phone needs is a bit of TLC and it will be fine Lets all make this phone better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stillwaiting Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 i want an spv now!!! I'm stillwaiting for mine you lucky so and so's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gaf Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 It is simple as said, if you don't like the phone, don't buy it! Thats not very helpfull is it. The fact is people have waited for it, bought it and are finding problems with it. The main one being software has to be orange certified. Infact im surprised orange get away displaying the MS SMARTPHONE logo everywhere when infact its a crippled smartphone. Until the certification requirement is removed I fail to see how its MS SMARTPHONE compat?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr.nick Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 The main one being software has to be orange certified. Infact im surprised orange get away displaying the MS SMARTPHONE logo everywhere when infact its a crippled smartphone. Until the certification requirement is removed I fail to see how its MS SMARTPHONE compat?? http://msmobiles.com/news.php?id=77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest markn Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Lets see what i can get for the same PRICE shall we?Price isn't an issue at all. The pricing of mobile phones has nothing to do with their value or their feature list. I would have paid more for the upgrade - though not, of course, knowing what I know now. And i have to admit bugs are annoying, this is THE FIRST SMARTPHONE stop being harsh if you wanted something full proof buy a year old phone, you HAVE TO EXPECT THIS! To be honest the bugs aren't the problem for me. Again: the problem is the design. It's the attention to detail of the small features - especially those that lean more towards the telephone side of the device. This is stuff that should have been picked up a long, long while back in the supposed two-year gestation period that this device has had. Even a drunk monkey would have examined what makes current devices accessible. Looking at a Nokia alone would have been enough. If Microsoft couldn't be bothered to send someone to Europe to see how we use our mobiles here, couldn't Orange have coughed and spluttered in general direction of Seattle? Most companies wont install ANY software on their network without a possible 1 year of testing, NEW software is proven to be buggy id love to see anybody create a flawless software based product on day of release Again, it's the design and not the coding. And bugs don't have to be accepted and expected. This kind of thing will destroy public confidence in this device, others like it, and 3G phones... whenever they may be ready. I'll say again: I really want to like this phone. As for the aforemention drunk monkey - maybe the keys were designed for him and his non-opposable thumb? They certainly weren't designed for me... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gaf Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 http://msmobiles.com/news.php?id=77 I see your point, if ALL ms smartphones need certified SW then I dont see much future for them. God I miss all those quality java apps :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob.P Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Definately a toy, there's not enugh for the serious hardcore user, saying that I'm well happy though, just finished preparing a film to put on it for train journey tomorrow, boredom factor has been reduced :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dom Posted November 28, 2002 Report Share Posted November 28, 2002 I see your point, if ALL ms smartphones need certified SW then I dont see much future for them. God I miss all those quality java apps :( Maybe if someone writes a JVM for it, then you could get away with installing unsigned Java apps? Only the JVM itself would need to certified because that's the part that actually runs the code. Wonder if MS will allow Sun to certify a JVM on the Smartphone platform, wonder if Sun (or anyone else will do Java for SP2K2). Reading what's been going on in this thread makes me lean even more toward sending the SPV back and waiting for 3650 (sounds like a 7650 with SD/MMC, Video and an extremely dodgy keypad!) or SE P800. From what people have been saying about the 7650 on this forum and others it sounds like it does the job better (the only thing that puts me off with the 7650 is the lack of SD/MMC). I'd almost say (from observing the comments of others rather than experience) that Nokia (and Symbian) has looked at what MS (or Apple, or even KDE and Gnome on Linux) do for the desktop and reinterpreted it in a mobile phone friendly way. It amazes me that MS has not done this... they have all of the core code to make it as good (at least from the UI side) or better than the Symbian based devices, but they seem to have missed the boat. I still want to like the phone too, but unless some of the issues are resolved soon it will go back (maybe to be compared to the 3650 and P800 next year when it should hopefully be in a much more 'complete' state). I don't think the phone is complete, and I'd want to see some useful and fun software available for download before the 14 days is up (as I've mentioned before, there was more SW available pre-release than there is now - I'd say that was pretty misleading in itself!!!). Also on the certification issue... that post from MS says that you need certification if you want to SELL software for SP2K2 (presumably if you want to redistribute it in any way), but that doesn't mean that you can't test your software on an individual phone (which I believe you can if Orange hadn't overwritten the MS Root Cert). I think that MS and Orange are as bad as each other though... if a PocketPC 2002 based phone (XDA, Jornada 928) can take unsigned apps without bringing the network to its knees (and they don't seem to have!!), then why should the SP2K2 devices be any different? This will ensure (I'd imagine) that there will be absolutely NO free software (I'm not talking open source - which MS strongly disapprove of - but freeware) available for the platform.... Whose going to develop an app (which costs time) and pay for it to be certified and then give it away free? I think plenty of software engineers would be willing to take the time to develop stuff for it (which if you looked at in terms of what you'd get paid for at work actually 'costs' you more) that part can be fun, but I wouldn't be willing to then pay even $300 certification and give the app away for free - would any of you? Sorry, since I've got this phone I've been spending a lot more time standing on a soapbox and ranting - I guess one thing the SPV has brought us is lively debate!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest markn Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Just to add - maybe close - this thread, mine has gone back. Shame really, because I really wanted to like it. Maybe one day, like a deceased labrador, I will. I can't be done with explaining why did end up calling 150, option 3-1-1, but it was easy and quite tear-free, was calling 150, option 3-1-1. It's quite possible the girl in customer services (150, option 3-1-1) was more upset than me. She said she had sent a lot out. I said she should maybe expect a lot back! My reasons are above or at http://www.modaco.com/viewtopic...php?p=2400#2400 (I'll be impressed if that works). But I'll still be reading here because this is genuinely one of the most interesting and lively forums I've seen for a while. Nice one, Paul. With the sound of a zipping anorak... :cry: - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tony Mc Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 well reading all of this is very worrying, i am still waiting for my SPV... delays delays delays, but i dont mind as im looking forward to getting a one of its kind that works.....WELL thats waht i was thinking... reading all of the above i feel at a loss.! i want this phone, i want to chat to people on the train/bus show people video clips and listen to music... and maybe use a few of the other options... BUT i dont want a headache every day trying to get the thing to charge/work.... now as i am getting my SPV on an upgrade and not paying for it which makes me think....shall i get it and have a look...and if im not happy send it back... because to be honest i am not in a financial situation to get this phone...and have to buy another one, when in 2 months time the whole thing packs up... i dont want to be a cynic... and im trying not to be.. HELP!! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dom Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Tony, 'fraid I'm one of the ones that has taken mine back (a couple of days ago). Having said that though, look through the other posts on the site, there are a lot of people on this forum (and the What Mobile forums) who really like the handset (and they are not mad!). The phone does work, and there's no reason why you can't do the things you said you want to do with it. I only had one crash in the 14 days I had the phone (and I've had that on other phones I've owned too!). I didn't find the lag too bad for my own purposes (it didn't seem too bad to me). Call quality was good. Tennis Addict is good (if you want games and don't mind paying £10 for it!). My main issues with the phone were the application signing issue and the fact that some of the applications that I thought should be part of the phone package were only demo versions. I'd say that the phone really is worth a look, a large number of people love it, others are not quite so enthusiastic :wink: , but the only real test is to actually get the phone and try it out for yourself, it does have a lot to reccomend it, it just isn't the one for me at this stage (may re-evaluate my position after the first SW update and after the application signing issue has been clarified and implemented). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xanadu Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Hey !! Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record............. You got the idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dom Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Hey !! Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record, Stop playing that old gramophone record............. You got the idea... Xanadu, I think (correct me if I'm wrong!) that I was suggesting that the SPV is quite good, and as I've stated previously I don't hate it (not that we should be *quite* that emotionally attached to our mobiles!), its not right for me AT THIS TIME (I must apologise if this offends you :D ). I'm waiting to find out more on how the phone fares over the next couple of months, and will re-evaluate whether it is right for me then. I do suggest that it probably is the right phone for some people RIGHT NOW, there are a lot of positive features! The only way for someone to know is to TRY it! Is there any problem with reasoned debate? Or is yours the only answer? I know mine is not, but I offer it as a possibility, if you disagree post up why so that people can have both sides of the story! Perhaps a more constructive post on your part would have been to say 'Go get that phone, its great and here's why...!". If I have misunderstood your post as what may be an attempt at humour by you then I apologise. I know the phone is available at a very reasonable price. It is, however, on contract so you are locked into it for a year. Some people may want to compare the SPV to other devices at a similar price-point to the SPV that either are out or will be shortly, not too unreasonable I think! In the mean-time, I'll continue to offer help/advice/opinons where I feel they have validity. By doing this, I'll be indicating what I like and what I don't like about the phone. If all of the opinions on this forum are viewed by Orange/MS/HTC, then they will get a decent picture of what people like and dislike about the phone... they will then be able to do more of what the majority like and less of what they dislike. If I am in the minority, then I will be ignored, if not then some of what I say will be taken on board - that's generally the way the market works and I fell that it is a good way. The best feedback a firm can get is from customers past, present and future - that is my experience in the software development industry anyhow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DJHope Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Dom is finally someone with some constructive criticism instead of all the cynicism and sarcasm from just about everyone else who doesn’t like the phone, most people who have given a negative opinion have failed to give a balanced one, they haven’t weighed up the pros and cons. Remember I said most not everyone, before the flaming commences! At least dom realises that some people might actually like the phone. Heres a perfect example from microsoft.public.smartphone: "SPV Smartphone - NOT - there is nothing smart about this piece of junk, so does anyone have another name for it?" It dosnt have any replys by the way! How is that constructive? Also im not sure Xanadu was talking to you necessarily dom, i think hes a bit fed up with this thread still being here, because i agree their have been alot of posts which sound exactly the same. But i dont agree that your's is one of them :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dom Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Also im not sure Xanadu was talking to you necessarily dom, i think hes a bit fed up with this thread still being here, because i agree their have been alot of posts which sound exactly the same. But i dont agree that your's is one of them :D That's a fair point :oops:! Apologies (again!) for getting hot headed :P I just don't like the sort of mudslinging that has been happening on the negative (towards the SPV) threads, i.e. along the lines of: Post 1: This phone is crud, it and all memory of it should be erased from existence. Anyone who likes it is mad, mad, mad!!!! Post 2: No, the phone is perfect; you are an evil bar steward for saying so and should be commited to hell!!! :( :( OK, I know it hasn't got that bad, but I just hope it doesn't. I genuinely feel that debate is good (it also encourages us to uncover misconceptions (or not) about functionality and or bugs => moving towards making the phone better than it already is), but trying to cut it is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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