I'll answer your questions

[Guest sporkguy]

*Orange Care - I had this as part of my original contract...

Indeed I can understand why you are annoyed here, and legally its a minefield to say where you are and aren't covered.

As the original contract expired after the first 12 months, there is nothing in there to say that your free insurance should have carried on for more than a year. Unfortunate I know, but in most cases free care is promotional (such as Free Small Business Care, currently available to new SMB connections and only valid for 12 months).

Did you attempt to fight this when you renewed your contract? In most cases (especially back then) they would have honoured the original contract and given you free care indefinately.

*Faulty Handsets - I had a Samsung E800 which after 7 months developed 2 lines of dead pixels...

I get this sort of situation frequently every week.

Unfortunately for us as consumers, the warranty of mobiles only covers the effective repair, or failing that, the subsequent replacement of the handset by the manufacturer. In Orange Retail, we're not responsible for replacing the handset once it is past its initial 28 day period. Within that period, should a handset develop a fault, we will happily replace it with a brand new box after we have aquired a fault-code from CS.

There is no system in place for us to be able to replace a handset outside of that period as the warranty then takes over.

As much as I hate saying this, your beef is unfortunately with Samsung as they are responsible for the handset after 1 month (Afterall, they produced the handset, we merely sold it to you and honoured the 28 day period for initial faults).

Orange Retail will gladly send your phone off to TRS given you can produce an original proof of purchase, and even pay the postage and processing fee for you - but there simply isnt a system or method for us to replace handsets there and then, and legally we're not required to do so.

Upgrade Rules - So I had another contract running at the same time...

I'll drop my opinion on this first. Personally I hate the new upgrade 'loyalty' scheme. Orange have effectively forced us Phone Trainers to sell 18 months contracts to customers, whether they like it or not. Currently, we earn ~?75 Customer Contribution (of which we get a percentage (from 1-10%), depending on how well our store has perfomed in the Mystery Shop) for an 18 month upgrade. Compared to a fixed ?25 CC for a 12 month upgrade.

Now this is unfair mainly because we have a number of customers who decide to upgrade well before their 12 month upgrade date and pay the upgrade fee (minimum of ?50, depending on last 3 month's billspend) - they cannot then be processed for an 18 month upgrade, thus cutting off our CC automatically.

Why should we be penalised for (sometimes) helping to convince a customer to upgrade early? Its crap, unfortunately, and we don't like it as much as the consumer does.

Anyway back to your point. The 18 month promotion is supposed to be applicable to customers in month 10-12 of their contract. In most cases this isn't true. 90% of the time a customer will have to pay a fee to upgrade early, and even then the system will decide that they cannot enter into the 18 month promotion (which is now 10% off line rental for 18 months, or free weekend calls for 6 months.)

Again, its complete rubbish. I also don't agree with customers being forced into 18 month contracts, but at least you're being offered a promotion in return, whereas most network's new connections are 18 month as standard, with a few not offering any brilliant deals. (I may be wrong).

As much as I hate losing a customer, Orange isn't affected by losing one or two customers from each store's area.. they only see the 'bigger picture' unfortunately :)

(btw, most of my post may sound like tripe as i've just woken up, heh)

[Guest Giffer2]

*Faulty Handsets - I had a Samsung E800 which after 7 months developed 2 lines of dead pixels...

I get this sort of situation frequently every week.

Unfortunately for us as consumers, the warranty of mobiles only covers the effective repair, or failing that, the subsequent replacement of the handset by the manufacturer. In Orange Retail, we're not responsible for replacing the handset once it is past its initial 28 day period. Within that period, should a handset develop a fault, we will happily replace it with a brand new box after we have aquired a fault-code from CS.

There is no system in place for us to be able to replace a handset outside of that period as the warranty then takes over.

As much as I hate saying this, your beef is unfortunately with Samsung as they are responsible for the handset after 1 month (Afterall, they produced the handset, we merely sold it to you and honoured the 28 day period for initial faults).

Orange Retail will gladly send your phone off to TRS given you can produce an original proof of purchase, and even pay the postage and processing fee for you - but there simply isnt a system or method for us to replace handsets there and then, and legally we're not required to do so.

I wasn't too clear about this, I purchased the phone online from Orange so have never really had a problem with the shops (Other than the fact that there always seems to be a huge queue when you are in a rush!!).

Unfortunately, it seems that Orange's training (or maybe their policy) is telling people that after the 1 month/28 days time period that it's my problem and that I should take it up with the manufacturer of the phone, however this isn't what the sale and supply of goods act states. (I'm not having a go at you, this is probably what you've been told/trained in by Orange).

It's a simple case (This is based on the revisied S&S act which changed the handling of faulty products purchased after a certain date).

If a product comes with a manufacturers warranty, then the seller is legally obliged to honour that warranty, in the first 6 months it is up to the seller to prove the fault exists, after that it's up to the owner to prove the fault exists. So basically, with me finding a fault in month 7 it would be my responsibility to prove the fault exists, which I did on 2 ways

1. I took the phone to an independent mobile phone specialist who examined the phone and wrote a fault report.

2. I phoned Orange customer services who did a remote test and told me there was a fault.

So I was able to prove that there was a fault, which meant the Orange was legallay obligied to fix or replace the faulty equipment - At no point do I as the customer need to speak to Samsung.

The below part of the Governments guide to traders on the S&S act -

12) What about manufacturers' guarantees?

The important points to remember are:

(a) the rights conferred on the customer by law are against the person who supplied him with the goods and not against the manufacturer (unless he is also the supplier); and

(:) in a consumer sale, nothing in a manufacturer's guarantee or warranty can take away any of the consumer's rights

10) Can I require a customer to give up these rights?

No, not when the customer 'deals as a consumer'. Indeed, if you attempt to mislead consumers into thinking that they do not have these rights, you may be committing a criminal offence.

The below is from the BBC's Watchdog site

GUARANTEES

The shop may say you have to claim a refund from the manufacturer, or claim under the manufacturer's guarantee. This is not true. Shoppers' rights under the Sale of Goods Act are against the retailer, not the manufacturer. Guarantees simply give additional rights which shoppers can choose to use.

A little bit of research goes a long way, however my beef is with Orange telling it's staff this isn't the case.

[Guest sporkguy]

There is no system in place for us to be able to replace the equipment under the warranty. Orange have made it so that the only solutions are to either

1) send the handset off to TRS for repair or

2) offer emergency care

Its not that we're not aware of consumer law, its just that there's no way for us to act in a manner that is in line with these guidelines, due to the processes set in place by Orange.

[Guest badflyer]

Hi AzH, heres my question. I?ve been an Orange PAYG user for several years now, and my question relates to roaming outside the UK. I?ve used my phone in many countries without much problems, however when I go to visit family in Moscow, Russia, I always get a Service denied message on my SPV C500 phone, on whatever network I try to connect to.

The Orange web-site states you have an agreement with ?MegaPhone? in this country, but I?m telling you, it don?t work. I?ve tried two Orange SIMMs and two Phones.. No joy! I?ve informed Orange Customer services on several occasions of this fact, and no one at Orange as given me a proper explanation. Your web-site needs correcting, as the information for Russia is misleading. I would like to point out that O2 SIMMs works fine out there, if it helps any Anglo-Ruskis out there who need to phone home.

So, when will Orange work in the worlds largest country? Can you help in the matter?

[Guest Giffer2]

There is no system in place for us to be able to replace the equipment under the warranty. Orange have made it so that the only solutions are to either

1) send the handset off to TRS for repair or

2) offer emergency care

Its not that we're not aware of consumer law, its just that there's no way for us to act in a manner that is in line with these guidelines, due to the processes set in place by Orange.

I see, so it's not Orange is choosing to ignore the law, it's just choosing not to actually have a system in place to carry it out.

My comments aren't based at you personally, so please don't take offence - It just seems Orange is playing the system to their advantage, I wonder how many people have given up and gone to the manufacturer? It's the details like this which is why Orange will continue to lose existing customers.

One question I did ask once, was why do I get a better deal as a new customer but can't can't have the same deal as an existing customer, my point was I was setup in the system, they knew my account activity and in terms of man hours spent in admin and processing this would have been a minimum - The person whom I asked was stumped and agreed with me that it didn't make any sense.

[Guest moroni]

That is soooooooooo true chucky.egg. The key to it IS also keeping your current customer base!!

They had the adverts on the telly with the wise man telling the big execs at Orange how to keep the customers happy, obviously the real directors are as brain dead as the actor portrayed because they do not practice what they preach.

JB

i work for a fairly big player on the high street phone sector and i quite frequently get PAC codes for customers as part of the service my shop offers. when we talk to o2 we get just stupid deals from them, 300x-net mins and 5oo texts for ?20 for a YEAR with a free D600!!!!!

talk to orange and its the utter opposite, my wife was given her PAC code straight away no effort to keep her at all and she spends ?40 every month!

crazy business sense!

[Guest sporkguy]

One question I did ask once, was why do I get a better deal as a new customer but can't can't have the same deal as an existing customer, my point was I was setup in the system, they knew my account activity and in terms of man hours spent in admin and processing this would have been a minimum - The person whom I asked was stumped and agreed with me that it didn't make any sense.

I also ponder this myself.

Orange actively encourages us to 'churn' customers rather than upgrade them, you simply have to look at the handset costs and 'Customer Contribution' they pay to phone trainers to see that.

e.g. They give us ?75 CC to upgrade a customer to 18 month 'loyalty' connection, ?25 for a 12 month standard upgrade, and a whopping ?130 for a new connection. (we only personally get 1-10% of this figure)

another example,

a customer who has been on YP120 for the past 12 months has religiously stuck to his ?25 billspend. His UIC (Upgrade Investment Class) will come out at Band 2. A 6230i (currently) will cost him ?49.99 to upgrade to.

He's not happy.. how can he get the handset for free? Easy: churn him onto a new number, where he will get the 6230i for free and get the YP120 for ?12.50 for 6 months...

How does this make financial sense, I'll never know.

[Guest Dilip]

Hello AzH

I recently took out the two sim offer from Orange, and had a orange SPV M500, and since my phone being activated, I am unable find out my usage minutes, even my first bill came in with 80% of the page blank.......is Orange going through a CRISIS? every time I call 150, the voice message says "this service is currently unavailable, please try later...."

Also, I get a sharpe noise during a call, I have contacted customer help several times but still am non the wiser.

Are you able to help?

Cheers :)

Dilip

[Guest sporkguy]

Hello AzH

I recently took out the two sim offer from Orange, and had a orange SPV M500, and since my phone being activated, I am unable find out my usage minutes, even my first bill came in with 80% of the page blank.......is Orange going through a CRISIS? every time I call 150, the voice message says "this service is currently unavailable, please try later...."

Also, I get a sharpe noise during a call, I have contacted customer help several times but still am non the wiser.

Are you able to help?

Cheers :)

Dilip

Since the end of last month we've been having 'issues' with billing. They're being processed late, and a fair majority of customers are also experiencing problems with 150 option 1.

According to the intranet announcement, they're "working on it".

[Guest tsutton]

Sorry, I was off today. I've been hit by 'flu (really nice). I'll check this out on Monday but I couldn't find anything on the Orange website.

Yeah I'm annoying... but any updates? :)

[Guest mobdna]

The bundled minutes option on 150 will not be available till after 27th Feb apparently! And even if you get through to a CSR to ask your minutes they can't see either, we use the same system. Sorry

[Guest mobdna]

Only if you check ya call timers built in to tha phone, i know slack excuse!

[Guest pcdoc]

Call me a cynic, but it looks very much to like FT are trying to run orange into the ground. I joined Orange when they were 6 months old and stayed with them untill 2003, left for 12 months and went back in sept-oct 2004 but the way they treat customers now I will be getting my pac code in a weeks time and thats me done with orange. I am so disgisted with them I will even move my wifes Pay as you go away from orange.

I really wouldn't be suprised seeing a news report that orange has called in the receivers :)

[Guest mobdna]

Call me a cynic, but it looks very much to like FT are trying to run orange into the ground. I joined Orange when they were 6 months old and stayed with them untill 2003, left for 12 months and went back in sept-oct 2004 but the way they treat customers now I will be getting my pac code in a weeks time and thats me done with orange. I am so disgisted with them I will even move my wifes Pay as you go away from orange.

I really wouldn't be suprised seeing a news report that orange has called in the receivers :)

I very much doubt they are calling in any receivers any time soon, Orange UK are the biggest moneymaker for FT whatever way you look at it! I just wish they would sell Orange UK to us!

[Guest pcdoc]

I very much doubt they are calling in any receivers any time soon, Orange UK are the biggest moneymaker for FT whatever way you look at it! I just wish they would sell Orange UK to us!

didnt mean immediate future, I was pointing out I wouldn't be suprised if I saw it reported at anytime in the future.

[Guest tsutton]

' date='Feb 14 2006, 22:10' post='720']You won't be able to find out how many minutes you've used?!?

Same way as not being able to find out how many text message you have used up/how many left and also how many MB of GPRS has been used up.

Others can provide it online, why not Orange?

[Guest TigerNet]

I'd like to know if/when the Single Number facility will be available to personal customers, and not just business ones. It's a feature I would LOVE, and it's on 02 and Vodafone already....

Someone on the Premier CS did say they had heard it was "coming" but that I'd have to ring approx once a month to keep asking. I've rung twice now since Dec but no joy.

I did consider moving to a business just to get the feature, but I couldn't find as good a deal as the Premier tariff I'm on now, so held fast.

I wouldn't bother...this service is not all it's cracked up to be - it is effectively a call forwarding system from one device to another, the SIMs have different numbers, so if you call/text someone from your second SIM, they will not see your normal number...

Cheers

Nick

[Guest ichilton]

Hi,

I have not had chance to read the thread yet so I hope these have not been asked already, but....

1) Is there any way of using Everyphone (330) any more? - they stopped advertising it years ago but it worked for ages after that. Last time I tried it though it didn't work. Is there any way to get it now?

2) Why oh why is it still cheaper to get a new contract than to upgrade? - I have had the same Orange contract+user for something like 8-10 years and I sadly cancelled it last month and took a new Orange contract out - more work for them but all it cost me was my number but I saved a fortune doing it - even over going through retentions - it's mad!

Thanks

Ian

[Guest Mattt]

There is no system in place for us to be able to replace the equipment under the warranty. Orange have made it so that the only solutions are to either

1) send the handset off to TRS for repair or

2) offer emergency care

Its not that we're not aware of consumer law, its just that there's no way for us to act in a manner that is in line with these guidelines, due to the processes set in place by Orange.

When you say "us" do you mean "Orange Shops" Or "Orange Customer Services" or both?

Isn't it illegal to have systems in place which mean you can't comply with the law? Or even a lack of systems resulting in the same?

Lastly, please excuse my ignorance but who are TRS and why are they repairing it? If Orange are saying that it is the manufacturer's responsibility from day 29 onwards then wouldn't one of their solutions also be to tell you to contact the manufacturer yourself as it is no longer anything to do with Orange?

Mattt

[Guest pd.ryder]

There is no system in place for us to be able to replace the equipment under the warranty.

Convenient :D , don't you think?

I posed a question in another thread a few days back, whilst groaning about having to pay a ?15 administration fee before getting a phone replaced which was well under 12 months old and covered by Orange Care:-

If I decline Orange Care when I next upgrade and the phone develops a malfunction within 12 months (cus it will :P ) would Orange insist on a ?15 fee before they'll meet my statutory rights / manufacturers / retailers guarrantee?

Obviously not. They'll just tell me to f**k off because they don't have a system in place to be able to deal with me :) and, no doubt, continue to charge me contract rates for a service I can't use cus my phone's knackered.

I wonder what Offcom would feel about a company not being able to meet the most basic of customers rights? Would this leave them in breach of their operators license?

[Guest moroni]

: and, no doubt, continue to charge me contract rates for a service I can't use cus my phone's knackered.

I wonder what Offcom would feel about a company not being able to meet the most basic of customers rights? Would this leave them in breach of their operators license?

oh heck they would still charge you for the rental, as its the sim card that has the phone number attached to it and that is still working.

its the same reason why you have the administration charge, you dont have to pay it as you could still use the sim card in a different phone, but if you want the original phone replaced then sure you should pay for it.

its no difference to car/house/life insurance you pay a monthly charge, and lets be honest here, ?5 is pretty reasonable, and if you need it you pay an excess, and ?15 is good for what you get! I work for a different retailer and we have a higher monthly charge and a $?50 excess, now that sucker is going to sting if you need it sure, but its cheaper than buying a new phone!

[Guest shuurajou]

I believe whether or not you get charged the admin fee is based on how well you pay your bills, how often you have your handset replaced - if Orange has ever had a handset returned to them from you in the past which wasn't faulty as it was originally described by yourself.

E.g. Your screen had a dead pixel, you told CS that it had a broken keypad. When it gets back to Banbury, it is taken note of.

CS actually read out a list of T&C's and things like "you sure X is your address, X fee if you aren't there, X fee if you hold up the driver" etc. One of those is along the lines of "if it's not broke you'll be entitled to a charge".

Basically it boils down to if Orange have evidence that they aren't going to loose out, either because you don't pay your bills on time, or you keep returning handsets for false reasons, or for other reasons. Besides - look how car insurance works - there's always an extra fee, that's just the nature of insurance.

[Guest pd.ryder]

Basically it boils down to if Orange have evidence that they aren't going to loose out, either because you don't pay your bills on time, or you keep returning handsets for false reasons, or for other reasons. Besides - look how car insurance works - there's always an extra fee, that's just the nature of insurance.

Don't want to be personal, but that's rubbish :D

I've never paid a bill late (DD) or had a phone returned for reasons other than those stated to OCS. As I've stated before, Orange will waive the admin fee once and thats yer lot.

My gripe is that any other insurance / extended guarrantee paid for on top of the manufacturers 12 month jobbie, doesn't actually come into effect until after the initial 12 months. If I've been negligent (left it on the table in the pub, someone nicks it and racks up a horrid bill, or it slides off the dashboard and out the window smashing into a million pieces) - fair enough, charge me ?15 excess. But just because the product malfunctions inside of 12 months - no way. That's taking the p*ss.

[/Rant over :) ]

[Guest pcdoc]

' date='Feb 14 2006, 22:10' post='720']WTF?

You won't be able to find out how many minutes you've used?!?

P

The wierd thing is you can check them on "your account" doins on the orange website. I checked last week had 331 mins & some secs, checked today, have 320mins now looks to be about right too.

[Guest shuurajou]

Don't want to be personal, but that's rubbish :D

I've never paid a bill late (DD) or had a phone returned for reasons other than those stated to OCS. As I've stated before, Orange will waive the admin fee once and thats yer lot.

My gripe is that any other insurance / extended guarrantee paid for on top of the manufacturers 12 month jobbie, doesn't actually come into effect until after the initial 12 months. If I've been negligent (left it on the table in the pub, someone nicks it and racks up a horrid bill, or it slides off the dashboard and out the window smashing into a million pieces) - fair enough, charge me ?15 excess. But just because the product malfunctions inside of 12 months - no way. That's taking the p*ss.

[/Rant over :) ]

Hmmm, during my time I spent in front line customer services at Orange (now work in a different dept) I have waived admin fees on more than one occasion per single customer. What I quoted was merely how we understood it to work and what we were told. I could be wrong and we could have been told wrong (it's alarming how often that happened), but just telling you what I knew.

Again, I also recall that it depends how long you've been with Orange, or how long since your last replacement.

I'm really not 100% sure but recall these things being mentioned by various people are different points.