Cheers Ash - still nice to see you back in whatever capacity!

OT:

Ash, forgive this if it's old news, as I don't get in here as much now as I used to (been years since I used a WinMo device as a phone itself now), so I use Mobiholics, your sister site more now.

But on a personal level, I've just noticed "you're back" with this thread.

When did that happen, and welcome back.

Does Paul need to watch his Post Count again now?

Generally works fine for me, on T-Mobile, though certain days it has issues.

Finds me to within 1700 metres using cell location, with "REAL GPS" turned off in the menu, and my local tower is a 3G mast - albeit, it's only yards away from me.

But the actual 'dot' of where it thinks I am, based on Cell Tower location, not real GPS, is almost perfect most times - usually guessing the very street I live in.

SOME days however, it just won't work at all.

So maybe this is what the OP is seeing?

I'm only going by the info on the site - but cool if so.


Friends and family if your intent is to let them track you in real time, which is what this was all about.

But nevertheless, it sounds like WM users at least have a basic platform to cover some of the aspects SportsTracker does. Cool.

I had a look at the site, but according to the To Do list, there are still lots to do, AND it states that exporting .gpx files, uploading 'offline' at a later point, and running in the background, are all still"To Do".

So clearly not a patch on SportsTracker.

Additionally, in terms of Web 2.0 and uploading, whilst it's good that you can upload to your own server, for those that don't have one, I see major issues if half the planet upload to the author's own server, in terms of resilience and it's ability to cope.

But still, a good little app for WM - albeit PDA NOT SmartPhone versions of it only!

I know it's not strictly helpful, but just a heads up to say I can already do this for free, with SportsTracker, on my Symbian SmartPhone.

AND then Web 2.0 upload it so all the world can see:


http://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/user/pr....do?u=Shadamehr


So would be nice if the same functionality finally made it to WM.

Well if they ever do finally sort out a N95 version of this, I'll be giving it a miss anyway, having read all this and seen that things are getting decidedly WORSE, not better with them.

It's the only company that partners with Modaco who in my mind, gives Modaco a bad name, or make them look bad.

I appreciate it's maybe slightly OT, given that I am about to talk about SYMBIAN devices, but you did ask WHICH devices this worked well on so...

On my Symbian Nokia N95, on T-Mobile, the NONE gps based CELL LOCATION is excellent - it places me almost spot on near where I live, and then when I click the button to REALLY locate me using the phone's own real gps, it shows my true location as not far off at all.

But, I live a mere 100 yards max from my nearest T-Mobile 3G mast.


On my Noka 6120c (another Symbian Nokia with the exact same OS version as the N95 but NO real gps in the phone), it again locates me really really close using CELL location, with my T-Mobile sim.


On my partner's Nokia 6120c, on 3, without real gps, it places her in the correct village/area, but around half a km away from where we actually are.


WHAT DOES THIS INDICATE...? WHY DO I POST THIS?

Because it would INFER that the accuracy of your location IS INDEED just as they say, dependant on various factors, especially including the info Google has on your Towers, and also WHICH network you are on, and thus what towers are near you.

As in my case, my own T-Mobile tower is real close to me, and my accuracy is great.

But for my partner, her nearest tower is a long way off (I know this from SiteFinder, local knowledge, and the fact that I used to be a local Councillor, thus have a useful list of exact tower locations, for previous use at former Planning and Development Committee meetings, when deciding on mast applications), and her accuracy is not as hot as mine.


So hopefully this info is useful.

But remember, just like Google say, this is "LOCATION" services for those without gps hardware - it is NOT a full gps service.

Nevertheless, even to be within a km of your correct location - even placed as far out as that, it's still GREAT to know roughly where you are, as well as for finding local services or businesses, etc.

KUDOS to Google for such a really nifty feature.

Jimbo, that's stretching it a bit mate.

Whilst there is indeed likely to be the most minor of differences in signal reception, even between two identical handsets, the key words here are "most minor of differences".

ANY manufacturer who produces two handsets that are identical, but amount to a full FOUR bars of signal strength indication difference between them when sitting side by side, would be a laughing stock.

Minor variance - sure...

My Partner's Nokia 6120c can show a single bar different to mine when placed side by side.

My son's 6280 can show a bar difference SOMETIMES when placed next to his younger brother's on the same network.

And I remember my old iMate SP5 also would show a minor difference SOMETIMES when placed next to the other one I had, also on the same network.

All of this being for a couple of seconds, and subject to usual fluctuations up and down - but only ever over a few seconds, and of a single bar or so.

But to want us to believe that a full FOUR BAR difference in signal (on a device that doesn't have seven or eight bars like some phones do in the first place), and moreover, that does so constantly, NOT fluctuates from time to time, is perfectly normal, correct, and how devices work...

Then your asking a bit much of me mate.

If I was sitting next to someone with the exact same device as me, on the same network, and they had a full signal, and I could not even get a signal, and it was constant, not fluctuating, then I'd sure as hell be taking my device straight back to the shop to, and woe-betide any shop assistant that tried to tell me that this behaviour was normal, and my device was not faulted.

I know what I would do to him, for being so ridiculous!

Sorry mate, but true - very true.

EDIT: Not meant to sound rude, just pointing it out, the difference between minor variance, and a full four bar signal, on a constant basis.

I've had a nightmare month with T-Mobile, with an issue that ended up all the way as far as their Network Engineers.

For a while I was having random disconnects of calls. This steadily got worse. Eventually, it was so bad, that one night I could not make calls. Signal was solid, but trying to make a call gave an instant "Connection Error" message appear on my phone screen.

T-Mobile advised I try a different phone (don't they always), so I ran it another week with a different type of handset, and had exactly the same.

But I eventually began to fathom why...

My phone was set up to poll for my email every half hour... And when it did this, if it tried to make a 3g data connection when the handset was already engaged in a Voice Call, or a voice call came in when in a data connection, instead of managing two connections, or at least pausing/suspending the data connection until the voice call was finished, it would instead continue, and disconnect the voice call (or similar effects) as each time I got abruptly disconnected in the middle of a voice call, I would look at my screen and see a message "Packet Data Connection On Hold" followed by "Packet Data Connection Active"

I'm not exactly spot on here with what was happening, but suffice to say T-Mobile themselves eventually confirmed they could see that all the ended calls were listed at their end as a "Network Disconnected the call" error.

Worse though...

My son, and my partner were also suffering this (both also with T-Mobile). And worse yet, it wasn't just my local 3G mast - it happened when 5 miles away from my home too, but in the same region/area.

T-Mobile launched an investigation, and found a widespread network issue in the North East/Tyneside area.

They fixed it after a week (things seem ok with voice calls since).

But NOW I have another problem.

Since this has been fixed, I now find that sending SMS is a nightmare...

Half the time I hit send, I instantly get an error on my phone (General Error - Already In use).

Other times I hit send, but instead of sending, they cannot be sent straight away, and sit in my outbox with a "Resend at...." message instead.

This is driving me mad.

So to rule out the handset, I have switched again, but so far, whilst possibly not AS bad, this other handset is still suffering the same sort of issues.

I have to say, that since I ported from O2 over to T-Mobile, around three or four month ago, my actual network experience has been terrible.

And it's a crying shame, because I DON'T mean signal strength. I have GREAT coverage where I am - the actual HSDPA 3G mast for my area is only 200-300 yards away from my house even.

No, I mean other issues, like network faults, sms sending issues, call disconnects etc such as this.

And it's driving me mad, because I DON'T want money back, or to be allowed to leave early - my package deal with T-Mobile is untouchable anywhere else.

I just want the service to perform as well as it did when I was with O2 - that is to say, you don't notice anything - it just works.

Alas, as much as I love T-Mobile's Customer Service, and the package deal I have, the actual network experience itself has been four months of hell for me.

Damn.

Cheers mate - must be an Signed in Customer only screen.

Only hope it's valid for new customers too, as like I say, not signed in, I can find details of the Weekly one, but not the monthly.

Also, is there any information on what "Internet Monthly" actually allows you?

Cheers and thanks Paul.

Er, how do you actually do the bit I highlighted in bold Paul?

I'm on the Three website now (not logged in as an existing customer however), and can't find any reference to this.

All I can find is the WEEKLY PAYG Internet add on at £2.50 a WEEK.

Can you shed further light please mate?

Repeat receipt of the regular "We notice you stopped using our application 10 days ago...." Emails.

Because I've just had YET ANOTHER bloody one today, to add to the sarcasm and irony of the previous one, given the whole issue I posted about on the previous page, of my not even being able to now run a Symbian 9.1 version of the app.

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

You haven't read my post above, mate.

Receiving the message is irrelevant. Not a huge issue.

The point you missed was that I received a message asking me why I had stopped using the application...

...After weeks of Emailing them about not being able to get the right version downloaded in the first place, and they kept not understanding this, then when they finally bothered to read my messages properly, the version I needed had by then been pulled anyway.

The point of my follow up post, was to highlight the irony, sarcasm, and p*ss poor customer service in all of this, especially in terms of then later receiving a message asking why I stopped using it (which I am aware will be auto-generated, but that's not the point).

*lol*

I reckon Paul must not be seeing our comments in here.

Because I too feel the same, about this being a poor Party to shack up with and promote - it will reflect badly on Modaco in the long term, this heavy promoting of it!

See, get this - further to my post up above about Support not bothering to read my repeated emails and offering irrelevant suggestions, well it gets better...

Out of the blue, I recently suddenly get an Email asking why I stopped using the application...

That would be the application that is NOT AVAILABLE for my current device of choice, and hence the whole raft of emails pertaining to this that werre sent back and forth between myself and M:Panel...

So adding insult to injury, they just turned a joke into a farce.

Doh.

Give Paul a PM, give him some details of your original Username etc, and get him to sort you out and set you back up with your original sign-in, so you keep the join date etc - go on!

Having done a search and read the listing let me give my view...

There is NOTHING really too special about this.

What appears to be being offered for sale, is a normal Orange PAYG SIM Pack.

The claim of it being 3G / 3.5G / HSDAP is NOTHING special, in that all this means is that it is a modern USIM, so capable of 3G connectivity at whatever speed the network cares to offer it, and the device it gets used in, can handle.

In other words, it's just pointing out that it is a USIM, not an old style SIM.

In terms of the cost, and the "why buy one" question, well all I can say here is that officially, a PAYG SIM card from Orange, does indeed actually usually cost a little bit money as part of a pack that also includes an element of credit, hence making these ebay offers worth a look sometimes, in order to save a bit.

BUT... Orange regularly have offers on where they offer FREE or £1 PAYG SIM cards (without any credit included), from time to time, thus making these ebay offers not worth it, when such proper offers are on with Orange.

Hope that helps a bit, and feel free to post back with anything else.

My NIGHTMARE Customer Support Experience with this...

(And Paul, this is not meant as a barb at them, it's just factual feedback, so they can 'work to improve things' for customers, or whatever companies call it these days).


Right, well here I go...

Around two months ago, around 10/09 to be more close, I thought I would re-visit M:Metrics, and see if a native Symbian version of the tool existed, as I had heard words to that effect online. I used to use the App. back in the past, but gave up when I moved away from the Pocket PC Platform.

So I duly followed the link here, went along to the site, filled the boxes in, and saw that my phone, a Symbian Nokia 6120 classic, was listed in the supported devices list (note the word 'was'). So I clicked the radio button to select it, and continued with the steps, to download it over the air, I seem to recall. But the link that arrived at my phone, took me to download the version for my PREVIOUS device, a WM Pocket PC, the MDA Universal.

Aha I thought - wrong device set up in my profile... but NO, I had already changed my listed device to the Nokia 6120c.

So, I tried again... And again got the link for a WM PPC instal file...

Mmmm.

Ah well, let me try the "Direct Download to PC" route... And what did I get...?

Yup, a WM PPC install file again.

Ok, I'll email them and tell them methinks.

So I fired of a 'short, simple, no possible way you could get confused by it' email, telling them I had correctly updated my profile to show my current device as a Nokia 6120c, but no matter which way I tried it, ota, or direct download, the file I kept getting was for my OLD device, a MDA Universal. Please can you look into this and fix it for me,

And I was rather livid with the reply I eventually got back...


One of those 'I haven't even bothered to properly read your issue' emails, that makes a person so damn angry when they receive it.

Oh but it gets worse, much worse...

I therefore emailed them back, telling them, simply, and shortly, that I had ALREADY told them the problem was that my device is now a Nokia 6120c, NOT a Windows device, and despite having updated my profile to reflect this, I kept getting download links for a PPC/WM file:

ME: "That’s great, and true, except the phone correctly registered on my profile now, is a Nokia 6120 Classic – a SYMBIAN device.
That’s what I was indicating – it is not offering you a download for the correct TYPE of software, based on the phone correctly registered.
It is using historic data, or just simply defaulting to PPC anyway.
Thanks."

So imagine my mood and anger when I get this reply back:


I have told them what I NOW have TWICE already now... I have CONFIRMED TWICE that what his records states is not true... I have told them TWICE now, that I have ALREADY updated my profile correctly.

And yet STILL people cannot bother to read emails properly... Frustrated..? I'm bloody livid by now...

So, I reply back telling them how angry I am by all this, that the information they needed has been in each and every email so far, and that all they had to do was read them, but that it's matterless now anyway, as I've had enough - consider the matter one for feedback only now.... Basically by way of referring him to my original email, but highlighting in colour and underline, the relevant statements from that email, that explained I had already done all this etc.

And then I go and get this back, to add the icing on the cake:


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

So just for argument's sake, I emailed them back to explain to them that the 6120c is just a Symbian Nokia, 9.1 FP1, and as such, the N95 using the same operating system, IS supported by them, so they seriously need to sort their entire Customer Service function out - but that's it, I'm off.


But actually, for ONCE, it turns out they were PARTLY correct...

Because as the user above my post indicates, since this whole catalogue of errors and mistakes began and how long it has taken, they have indeed now removed their entire range of Symbian OS 9.1 devices from their compatibility list, and only support devices up to 8.1 now. That's how long this whole sorry state of affairs has took to progress.

So despite however long a mess in terms of poor responses from M;Panel, as listed above, it has all been a complete and utter waste of time anyway, as by the time they finally have read and understood my problem, the whole thing has been a complete waste of my time anyway, as support for my phone, now that they finally know what phone I have, has since been removed anyway.

Doh.

As I say, a bit of a rant on my part, but mainly so that M:Panel can read this, and consider totally shaking up their whole C.S. stream.

Or even easier... just READ what people are telling you, not just skim over a user's email.

Thanks.

Oh and if you ever finally do get round to re-supporting Symbian 9.1, AND get your systems working properly so that it sees the correct phone logged on a user's profile, I might even consider downloading it then.

I like a reasoned debate mate, but some of the things you state below , you have just blatantly discounted relevant facts - let me explain...



You sound life Steve Jobs on this one mate, with his excuse why we don't have 3G in the iPhone, as it would affect the battery life too much.

But that's a nonsensical excuse when really thought about, as at the end of the day it's up to Apple to sort out the battery. And even then, being fair to them, Nokia were not really able to do anything with the battery of the N95, which we ALL know is poor. HOWEVER exactly like you say, i can if I wish, elect to TURN off 3G and GPS and Wi-fi, or any combination of these I like, on my N95, and get far better battery, saving certain times only for periods I might need one of these things.

The difference here - I have a CHOICE, and can use them as and when I like. The iPhone has no choice on these.

(I can also install far better browsers on the device than IE, which everyone knows is poor, BTW to also help redress that point you made)

So I am sorry, but being more honest, I score that one as follows:

A:ROW = 0:1



At least you score it honestly, but you also forget something else - if they DO ever add this, don't forget BUSINESS users can't even have an iPhone, unless they are the specific named individual, AND forgo a Business Tariff too. Apple have not allowed O2 UK to offer the iPhone to anyone not individually identifiable, for some weird reason well talked about elsewhere, nor have O2 allowed them on Business Tariffs etc.

So I score this not only a 1 for push email to the ROW, but another 1 to ROW for anyone being able to use their none apple business phones on business accounts etc.

So with the amended score from item 1 about the CHOICE of 3G, which a user can turn on or off, exactly like you mention yourself, then the current score in my book is now:

A:ROW = 0:3



I like the idea of this too, if the UK nets can support it, as I suspect O2 are going to have teething problems rolling this out so quick to adhere to Apples standards. Nevertheless, kudos to Apple, point to them

A:ROW = 1:3



Except on tariffs of £35 a month as the Apple iPhone will be, I don't know where you are getting the figure of £240 from for the CHEAPEST contract based Kaiser mate. Sure SOME might be charging as high. But it only takes ONE place to sell it much cheaper, and your argument then holds no sway.

And as I have already, in just five seconds Googleing, found a site doing it from FREE dependant on contract (and certainly on a £55 a month one, like the Apple iPhone is still £269 on), then this point is completely false.

Example Tariff Deal Link

The Kaiser can be had for FREE on roughly equivalent monthly cost tariffs, and can also be bought SIM free from £399. The iPhone CANNOT be bought SIM free, and thus £899 really is the minimum total price you can acquire one for, irrespective of whether this gets you included service or not - the point is you don't even HAVE a choice. Additionally, it has been hinted that come 9th Nov and the new O2 tariffs, OTHER users with OTHER devices, can elect to take out this tariff that includes free wi-fi too, with OTHER devices. Thus if it proves true, means that the Kaiser etc could easily be used on said same tariff.

So you are really NOT understanding the price issue of the iPhone here it sounds mate. in the UK, as I am not sure where you are at, the cost of a handset at £269 AND with an OBLIGATORY 18 month contract, is unheard of, and extremely pricey.

A:ROW = 1:4



As already stated, I like the interface. I even like the keyboard and it's intelligent learning features, even though most other people slate the lack of real qwerty buttons on it. So I score this to iPhone too.

A:ROW = 2:4



Many other people haven't either. But far more have (allegedly), and that's beside the point, it's MEANT to be a basic standard feature set of ANY colour screen mobile phone. Especially one that HAS a camera itself. Most other mobiles phones support MMS even if they DON'T have a camera.


So if your whole scoring regime was based solely on YOUR use, then fair enough, but as I feel it was actually meant as a general comparison, then whether you personally use MMS or not, is entirely not the issue. Having a state of the art (supposedly) phone with camera and beautiful colour screen that DOES NOT support MMS is absolutely incredible.

And as we are talking about the EUROPEAN introduction of the iPhone, then in Europe LOTS more people use MMS than the USA know about or bother with.

So this one, despite your simple dismissal, as outlined by me at the start, is a clear point DROPPED by the iPhone, and it's incredible "No MMS" feature. And to think - the screen just begs to be used to show off photos friends and family elsewhere send you.

And as it's a fairly accepted convention in the UK that apart for the really good new 3.2 MP and 5MP Carl Zeiss and SE lenses with Xenon flash, a camera on a cameraphone is otherwise only ever suited to taking photos to be used for MMS alone, then why even HAVE a camera on the iPhone... Good as it is compared to some mobile phone cameras, it is just the same mid-range standard, suited only for MMS.

So why even have it, if you can't even send MMS?

Oh and for chucky.egg - I send LOADS each month... my gf sends quite a few, and even my 13 and 10 year old sons send the odd one or two - it was great when my 13 year old was away at RAF camp, with his Air Cadets, to see what he was up to via a picture he sent. Even my dear old Mumsy, with a basic and cheap PAYG Nokia 6070 sometimes sends me pictures of my 4 year old, when he is staying with her overnight. I seem to recall the first ever picture message I sent, was on the Nokia 7650, the first real Symbian Smartphone, all those years ago, so long have we had MMS.

Whilst I am not for one second saying I am representative of the entire MMS world, not by a long shot, I AM however saying that you are nowhere near as representative either. The UK populace DOES use MMS, don't kid yourself any different, even if you don't use it mate.

And as outlined above, it's an AMAZING thing to have, for those rare moments you receive a true gem of a picture to make you smile, while separated from someone over distance. The iPhone not having MMS support, is quite frankly, staggering, for the UK market.

(Oh, I go on holiday for two weeks, to Spain in about 6 hours from now. While over there, whilst voice and SMS will cost the usual foreign roaming premium, with T-Mobile, an MMS message, even if just used for a very very long textual message, costs me just 20p, AND comes direct out of my inclusive allowance, so actually doesn't cost anything extra at all.)

You can imagine therefore, how pleased I am going on holiday later tonight/tomorrow morning, that i do not own an Apple iPhone as my mainstay phone, which wouldn't even ALLOW me to send an MMS, and thus DICTATE that all my communication back home was via expensive sms.

And yet people will STILL try to tell me not supporting MMS is unimportant. Whatever.

So clearly...

A:ROW = 2:5



I swap out my battery loads of times - it means that I can always have a spare battery on charge and if one dies because I FORGOT to top it up, I can just bang in another.

Let's not kid ourselves, even with the best will in the world, we ALL from time to time, manage to have our mobile phone die on us.

With the Apple way, your looking at some hefty downtime while you charge it up, OR the restriction of needing to be near a charging source while you use it whilst charging. Car or home fine, but out and about, no dice son!

Finally, despite what Apple imply about the battery's useful life, it's universally accepted that as good as they are, the life cycle of a battery is NOT meant to be as long as the life cycle of the actual handset, if used correctly.

For all of us lot (the ROW) we can buy a cheap battery to replace it, either genuine or third Party, if we trust them.

With Apple, no such luck.

And looking at the Nokia example recently of the BL-5C battery recall (and let's not forget how many companies have had to recall batteries of late). Touch wood, the Apple battery is GREAT. But being hypothetical yet FAIR, if perish the thought, a fault WAS discovered in future with the battery in the iPhone, then kiss bye bye to your whole device while it is sent off to be replaced.

Nokia users the world over, in the great battery debacle they supposedly just had, were no more inconvenienced than having to wait for a replacement battery to arrive, even being able to use their device in the meantime, if they so wanted to take the chance.

The real facts are, whether so far the none-user changeable battery of the Apple has been an issue for you are not, it IS a genuine issue to note, nevertheless, and DOES put it on a lower footing than the ROW You score it this way yourself too, but only on environmental grounds it sounds, not the points I indicate.

So without a shadow of a doubt score this:

A:ROW = 2:6



I too need people to be clear. I have said unreservedly, even from just a VIDEO of its interface, that it is like no other in terms of UI - it really looks oh so sweet. Stylish??/ Absolutely. But as I have already said, looks alone a mobile device do not maketh. Nor is it even the most important number one feature.

As for reducing the number of devices you need to carry? Sure, or maybe not so sure - "PERHAPS" would be fairer. But surely so do so many more devices, even better. My N95 has GPS and built in sat-nav, or third party pro ones available such as Co-Pilot. It also has a true 5MP camera with Carl Zeiss lens. AND the same OSS browser as the iPhone, but with much faster, and thus USABLE HSDPA.

And whilst the one fair critique of the N95 is it's poor battery life, as it is user changeable, I can always use the one from my old and broken Nokia 5500 instead, which makes an ideal charger. Because the N95 battery IS user-changeable. So this workaround negates the issue of poor battery life, were you minded to raise it, when compared ot the iPhone and its fixed battery.

So my N95 can replace a whole host of devices more, than the iPhone can. So that alone cannot be the iPhone's selling point. Even the newer WM devices have bigger cameras, and built in wi-fi and GPS too. So they too can replace MORE devices, arguably, than it ever could be said the iPhone can.

You see, the point here is reality over hype... the reality is, existing devices can do the job the iPhone does, AND A WHOLE LONG LIST MORE often better, and in the case of the net, also FASTER, than the iPhone.

But they CAN'T however, do them, on a device that looks so slick, so chic, and so cool as the iPhone clearly is.

But then we come right back to where my argument started...

The iPhone looks cooler, sleeker, and more chic, than any other device, and it's interface is second to none.

But THOSE things do NOT make the phone... the features you can actually USE it for ultimately do that.

At least, they DO on a device costing a minimum of £899.

And my scoring, when taking relevant factors into account, differs from yours immensely.

My more in depth analysis scores things as:

A:ROW = 2:6

Markedly different from your own.

Having seen the videos, that alone was enough for me to KNOW that the user interface is AMAZING. Truly so. But just as I say in my Blog post, it's STILL a Ferrari F50 with a 750cc Smart Car Engine, given the EDGE issue (again more in my Blog post).

Additionally, have YOU actually had a play with the iPhone yet... If so perhaps you would offer comment as to the lack of MMS/Picture Messaging it allegedly suffers. And I'm thinking something a bit more productive than "not everyone uses mms".

Even to those who can madly, and foolishly ignore that it has no 3G, as it does have the slower EDGE, so CAN still go on the net (just, at slow speeds, in only 30% of the UK by population density on launch), ask yourself is it right to have a phone that does not have certain PHONE features such as MMS?

No, the interface is amazing... but that can only paper over the cracks so to speak, so far, as to the underlying technology issues and omissions the phone possesses.



I don't see the sense of it either. And if you love it as an iPod, get yourself one - the iPod Touch (the same basic device without the phone features), is to launch BEFORE the iPhone itself in Europe. So it sounds to me by what you are saying, that an iPod Touch, is far more suited to what you want.



Switzerland must be different to many other Europe markets then mate. Because certainly in the UK, the base Data Bearer Technology is NOT charged dependant upon what is offered... Users pay per MB, or pay for a Data Plan at a certain price. But they DO NOT pay more for UMTS than they do for GPRS, or EDGE, or HSDPA (in some respects - though T-Mobile prefer you to be on Web n Walk Pro for HSDPA).

So in the UK, if the iPhone WAS 3G, or 3.5G, then users would not pay a penny more for 1GB of HSDPA or certainly UMTS data, than they would for 1GB of GPRS or EDGE data.

So no reference to "same over the top prices" apply in the UK, nor most other countries in Europe as far as I was aware.

As for the Browser in the iPhone, it is OSS, or Open Source Safari... Yes it's brilliant, but its the very same base browser used on my 3.5G HSDPA Nokia N95, or 6120c. The difference is that on the iPhone, the screen is bigger resolution, so you can see more. But it takes five to ten times as long to load on the iPhone, as it does on my HSDPA N