Guest reu_lam Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Hi All, Just been on to orange about a fault in my phone and im furious. I have an MXP200 and the keypad backlight has extinguished and been replaced by a loud buzzing. Orange accept this is a fault and the phone needs replacing but they want to replace it with a SE P800 (released in 2002) as the mpx is out of stock. I mentioned how old this replacement phone is(read: downgrade) but apparently this is the best they can offer. Basically does anyone know if this is normal practice for orange or is it just a couple of jumped up customer service hicks who have parking warden syndrome and have outgrown their boots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beersoft Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Hi, Welcome to the site. It is normal practice to replace the phone with another model if they are out of stock. if you don't like the replacement phone they are offering ask if you can wait until the mpx's are back in stock, or push for an E200 or something like that. later Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest squall Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 would be surprised if the default alternitive was not a smartphone, i got a e100 when they ran out of spv's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reu_lam Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Its go something to do with their insurance policy - seems they have an "equipment replacement" department that spends all its time decided what phone to replace a broken ones with. They clearly arent very good at their jobs trying to fob that ugly old SE P800 on me and not even bothering to mention it does not run Windows Smartphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chrimbow Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 oh dear... I dont give a stuff about what oranges policy is. Im a retail manager (for my sins) they are bound to either repair or replace the phone. if its out of stock then they must offer you this choice. DO NOT accept a lesser phone. just mention the sale of goods act and the consumer protection act and see how quickly things start moving! good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martin Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 They clearly arent very good at their jobs trying to fob that ugly old SE P800 on me and not even bothering to mention it does not run Windows Smartphone.I can see your point there. It's possibly going to be much harder for Network providers to offer alternative Smartphone models using a different OS because people may have spent a lot of money on phone software. I imagine it's Orange policy to make the offer when a replacent phone is out of stock but it's good to see you're not tempted to defect :wink: It wouldn't have been so bad if they had offered you and E200 :lol: I hope you get it sorted soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reu_lam Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Thanks Fellas, I have a manager ringing me back this afternoon but aparently its a not negotiable and the P800 is all you get if your MPX develops a fault and they have none in stock - pretty poor as far as im concerned... Also when you take the replacement you cant change back so im sticking to my guns for the time being. PS: Does anyone know if this fault with the motorola is dangerous - the buzzing is pretty loud and I dont want the phone self distructing and starting a fire or anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drblow Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 No way man! Like martin says - tell 'em you bought loads of software for the moto (windows SP2002) that won't run on a p800. Just fight with them! If they totally refuse to offer you a better replacement, just leave Orange altogether. It's getting easier to get smartphones on other networks, and the deals for the O2 Xphone seem quite good! :wink: Tell 'em all that & see if it makes any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chrimbow Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 you could always take it up with motorola directly, to have the phone repaired under their own warranty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fitz Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 I got a friend to speak directly to Orange's Legal Department about the same issue but with a Nokia 6600 and an "Out of Stock Replacement", only being able to replace with a E100 i.e downgrade as no video messaging....... Result...... Legally........ No Chance (Even with the Sales of Goods Act) Basically they're covered for situations like this by the terms and conditions they put in the back of all their userguide. One of them (in a nut shell) says they can changes the terms and condition of their care/insurance at any time, without prior notice, writen or otherwise. and because they are offering an alternative, they're covered the SOGA Depending on how long you've had your phone for, you could probably get a refund under the SOGA, if under 6 months old (I think) But don't forget this goes both ways........you could have got a better phone........ a mate went from a P800 to a P900..............another went from an SPV to an E100, not bad for free is it? But it's not so good if you're going the other way :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gplhl Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Chrimbow, how would you stand with the sale of goods act, when taking a phone back, and being offered a replacement that doesn't run the same software as the original. I don't know much about the SE P800 but does it integrate as well with Outlook as the MPX? If i'm right part of the sale of goods act states that the product has to do what it was intended to do, i.e. if you bought a smartphone for what a smartphone can do and state exactly that you bought it for every little feature it has, then a SE P800 isn't going to do what the MPX can. reu_lam I only got my MPX200 two weeks ago from an Orange shop, they had loads of them as they were out of V500, which is what I wanted, fortunately for me they were out as I have been amazed with the MPX200, can you not go into a load of different Orange shops and try to get them to replace it there? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mjread Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 I remember when I first joined Orange many many moons ago and I had a fault with my phone. I called OCS at 9am and they apologised to me because they couldn't get a replacement to me until around midday. Whatever went wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadamehr Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Under an Insurance return, whatever conditions Orange specify in the small print, pretty much can apply alas. So instead tell Orange you insist on making a return for goods not fit for the purpose intended, or of merchantable quality, under the sale of goods act, and the sale and supply of goods act (the more recent amendment). Then, like must be replaced by like. Any hassles, ring your local trading standards. But remember, this can only work if done under a legal fault based return, not under insurance cover returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fitz Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 It would be OFCOM (Formily OFTEL) not trading Standards. OFCOM is the Specific Trading Standards for the Telecommunication Industry......They Escalate it to Orange's Executive Office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fitz Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 If you dial 100 (The Orange Opperator) they'll even give you the number for OFCOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadamehr Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 < ^ For "fitz" on page 1 ...Not at all, and not in the slightest mate. I appreciate what you are saying, but your completely barking up the wrong tree. Whilst Ofcom regulate the communications industry, complaints about breaches of the sale of goods act, which is actually criminal, not civil law, are reported to trading standards - irrespective of the service, and I'm not sure where you are even coming from. Having a regulator for the REGULATION of services (notice that all important word, as this is all they are concerned with), has not a single jot of bearing on the sale of goods act. Otherwise we just re-wrote an entire aspect of english criminal law, and consumer rights, overnight. Nope. Ofcom regualte tariff pricing, call connect charges, inter-operater termination fees, network regulation etc etc. etc. But they don't have a flying sausage to do with breaches of consumer law in terms of the sale of goods act, or the sale and supply of goods act. Sorry. So my original post stands. Insist on it being a defective phone, not of merchantable quality, and stupulate it is therefore dealt with that way, and refuse to have ot dealt with as an insurance claim. Then if you get no joy, tell your local Trading Standards that your phone has messed up good style after only 2 months, orange are refusing to take responsibility for it as a defective phone, and insist on me making an insurance based claim instead, and thus robbing you of certain basic consumer rights, and you want to take action under the sale of goods act, or any other relevant appropriate consumer legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fitz Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 But believe me, I have got this information directly from Orange's "Legal and Reg Department". and if they say they wont authorise a replacement, no-one else in Orange will...........so, your only option really is TS or OFCOM. As they say.......no good speaking to the monkey Orange's Legal Department even have "On-Site Solicitors", and no large corparate company is going to leave themselve open to a legal challanges over sometime like this. (which in all respects, I'm sure is a very common type of complaint, and no doubt trivial to them). You do know that their "Out of Stock Replacements" do change. (Infact sometimes it changes on a weekly basis), so next week you could be able to get a different one! Let us know what happens and how things go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kelv23 Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Orange Customer Services do suck.I've not been able to recieve texts from my girlfriend in Thailand for over a month now.I've had a month of sending e-mails,calling customer services from my landline and mobile (£20 in total,then used freephone and started ranting an raving) and all i get back is "its a problem with the Thai network" the Thai end is fine,my girlfriend has spoken to them twice and got the ok, messages are leaving their network no probs. So I'm changing networks,if anyone who works for Orange comes to this site get your act together and start treating the people who you make all of your money off with a bit more respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fitz Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 I think I have to agree with you kelv23........ I'm still waiting for a bill to be recalculated, it's taken them over 2 months to look at it and it's still not sorted...... I've now had an SMS, an Email and a Letter with them threatening to put a "Call Restriction" on my phone. Charming isn't it?....... Their fault, but the customer suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ikorodu Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 While not directly on this topic, my experience of orange cs is similarly poor. I order an E200 from the orange website. Nothing arrived for two days so I called them to find out why. I was told there was a back log and the phone would not arrive for 7 to 9 days. So I emailed to cancel the order. 5 days later an E200 turns up from orange and I'm charged for it! Called them to send it back and go no apologies, just, we'll send a prepaid bag for you to send it in. Also every time I have called then form 8am to 8pm it has taken between 15 amnd 45 mins to get to speak to someone. They are very, very, poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kelv23 Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 The main problem I found was that every time I phoned them I had to explain my problem over and over again to the call center staff although they have all the info about your problem (if you contact by e-mail it is stored on your account and they can access this straight away).I ended up asking how to make a complaint about the service I was receiving and they just said that this is how you do it e.g by calling them,i was then handed to the supervisor (more like team leader) who obviously had been called in to diffuse the situation and skirted around giving me an answer about how to make a complaint.If anyone knows of how to do this other than by phone please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chrimbow Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 There is a grey area of time that is given as "acceptence of goods" which is generally considered to be 14 days (hence most places have a 14 day return policy). If you have gone past that they dont Have to give you a refund, only uphold a warranty of goods. Yes the goods do have to be of merchantable quality and as described ie, "it does what it says on the tin". They DO have to offer a exact replacement, but they are protected if it is out of stock on a temorary basis. As long as you have idenified the issue and raised it with them inside your 14 days they are legally bound to replace it. If they offer you a lesser alternative and you accept it, they are covered legally. If they are genuinely out of stock (hard to believe on a key line) hang on until they are back in stock and they will reserve one for you to replace it with. incidentally, trading standards is the best body to go to as they have the most legal umph and strike fear into every souless, black hearted retailer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fitz Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 You mean they didn't try to give you their "Correspondence Address"?! If they can't sort it, they always give it out.....basically a complains department which can't be contacted by phone only by fax or letter (very convienant don't you think?!) As for the reply they give, it's more of a standard automated response (or so it read anyway) They've given the address to me everytime! Probably to shut me up, as I got "slight annoyed" last time, before being told to calm down or they'll hang up on me! Had the same problem with Vodafone too, but the coverage in my area is very poor (other than Orange, that's only why I'm still with them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kelv23 Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 No they never offered me any type of address just told me that all complaints were dealt with over the phone.I'm not that surprised,customer services should be re-named.Any suggestions anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beersoft Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Dont forget all telcos suck there are so many names for the few halfwits that work at orange (i wont use them its rude :lol: ), my personal experiance with orange is as long as its not a technial question they are ok, you need to follow the normal advice which is stay calm dont swear be cheerful when you call them, happy sounding customers throw them a bit repeat your self until they get bored hearing the same story and pass you on to a 'supervisor' good phrases to use are "im very frustrated" and "I know its not your fault but this is important to me" and calling them every 30 mins until the fold also works it works for me most of the time when i get a bee in my bonet about something i would try the address at the bottom of your bill to send complaints to. Later Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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