What's a plugin worth??

[Guest drblow]

What with the recent addition of some fantastic new homescreen plugins, I am very interested to know what the modaco community at large thinks about paying for/pricing of plugins.

Traditionally they have been free (an idea which appeals to me quite a bit! :lol: ). In fact, as far as I can tell, the new scrolling appointments plugin is the first one to actually request payment. I know there of at least one in the past (the madbeetle analogue clock?) but I never remember seeing it used in any homescreens so I guessed it didn't take off. People seem to be OK with the idea of paying for this new appointments plugin (even though it's still in beta stage), so I am beginning to wonder if paying for plugins is something that the modaco community (& the larger smartphone community) would accept . My own personal point of view is that there is so much stuff on modaco (tweaks, apps, plugins, homescreens) that people have put time & effort into making that are provided free. It's one of the things that contributes to the feeling of community around here, I think.

However, I see a danger that if developers have no financial incentive to keep bringing out amazing new plugins, then they might stop doing it.

There is also the question from a homescreen developers point of view, that if I pay for a plugin, then include it in a homescreen that people want to download, then they will have to pay for the plugin. That means I would be in effect promoting sales of the plugin without any financial reward for myself. Either that, or homescreen developers do NOT use pay-for plugins which leaves a bit of a gap between development & implementation.

I also wonder about the supply of homescreen designs with a plugin. What about all the people who do not know anything about xml, or don't want to know - how are they meant to implement new plugins? Would people pay for a package of a new plugin with a few top notch designs?

This is a bit of a marketing campaign, so please help me out & vote in the poll. Who knows, maybe this could lead to big steps forward in homescreen/plugin development.

Let me know your thoughts. If anyone can think of any other options for the poll, let me know & I can add them.

People of modaco - I thank you! :D

[Guest chucky.egg]

I used to be totally against plugins and "little stuff" being charged for, but TBH i was probably just plain wrong.

If a plugin is really useful to me (like the scrolling appts plugin is) then I will happily pay for it. sullivanpt even offered me a freebie, but after the time he'd put into it I *wanted* to pay so that he would have that incentive to continue developing.

There are far more homescreens that I hate than ones I love, so I wouldn't assume that people will pay for homescreens - you have to get the design and the functionality right - but people like me would probably pay for homescreens that include a plugin that does something useful, fun, cool or interesting and that needn't necessarily be a new plugin

What about a service like when you get your photo stuck on a mug or mousemat? A selection of screen layouts and plugins, and a background of your choice?

The danger with paying for homescreens is that the MS Smartphone corner of Handango (spit!) will become like the UIQ corner there - almost every new item on any given day is now a skin for Tracker or HandyDay, making it hard to find new software.

[edit]

Sorry, went off on one a bit there.

To answer your question: "Would people pay for a package of a new plugin with a few top notch designs? "

Yeah, probably, but depends on the plugin and the screens

[Guest Skunkchild]

I'd only pay for something realy special, such as the RJHTML plugin which I see as costing the price of MoDaCo plus membership. It seems to me that apart from yourself and Midnight no-one else has released a homescreen using the HTML plugin. If I'm incorrect, then where are they ? If I'm right then this may be more evidence for the MadBeetle situation where takeup is so poor that no one ever has the chance to develop good designs to show it off.

In the case of Dr Fonz's latest plugins I'd keep the homescreen display part free and charge for any additional functions that might apear when you click into it.

If I were a plugin creator then I wouldn't charge as that usually brings additional support responsibilities. If the developers make something good and are able to claim intellectual rights then maybe one day Microsoft will have to pay them off to include thier work in future OS releases. Not likely tho'.

I've just looked at Handango and never before realised that people are charging for homescreen backgrounds. $9.99 for 250 resized pictures, 175 downloads = $1,748.25.

Right I'm off to delete Bio Media and Stolen Mobile and put them up on Handango, 902 potential sales lost from MoDaCo alone ! :lol: I suggest you do the same Dr Blow :D

That's my random ramblings for the mo'.

[Guest crafty]

Yeah i'm kinda torn on this issue as well. My gut reaction is to keep as much software free for all - think of how much we've all benefited from free apps like Smart Explorer, Reg Editor or Pacman. But then i look at my bank balance and then at the over 3000 downloads of my skins on Modaco, plus another 1500 on coolsmartphone and it makes you think...

I voted that 'I would contribute on a shareware/donation basis' as this seems a pretty fair tradeoff between providing incentives for people to develop more stuff and it being available to all. This said i wonder how much revenue someone like binarys actually make? As for using 'charged-for' plugins in my future homescreen designs, not sure about that one. If someone releases a fantastic plugin that you have to buy and i purchased it i'd probably use it in my designs at the detriment of it appealing to more people. That said if there were a free version of something available (RJ Time or LCD Plugins vs MadBeetle Clock plugin) i'd always opt for that.

I guess the way i see it, smarphones are a kinda hobby and i don't think that there'd be such a community of enthusiasts such as Modaco if people did not freely contribute their hardwork for the benefit of all. Keep 'em free!

[Guest lutzh]

5-10 bugs payment for something useful (like scrolling appointments, weather report, gprs counter - things i actually use) are really something that i can pay, since i am not able to program this kind of plug ins by my self.

i would never pay a single bug for a simple (or even complicated) xml layout or some nice backgrounds since i can do that my self if i only use the time for it.

i'll pay the next five bugs on a call timer plug in that shows send/received minutes for the running month and a call history that i can export to my pc :-)

anyway i guess there is no wrong or right in definitions what may be free or something to pay for. plus we have a problem called piracy since there are no real methodes to make an application really copy protected or not usable when you get it over file sharing or hand to hand.

cheers, lutz

[Guest scottb]

It think my best answer is, it depends...on the plug-in. I would certainly pay a few dollars for a plug-in that I really like, or is very useful to me.

I can get around xml enough to create home screens (I use my own design), but I can't create plug-ins, so I have to rely on others for those.

[Guest squall]

I wouldnt pay for a homescreen plug in, i dont use the free ones as it is! Id imagine there would be *some* people willing to pay for them.

[Guest drblow]

Interesting spread of reactions there! I tend to agree most with Crafty. I have never considered asking for money for any of my homescreens, but then sometimes look at around 2000 downloads, and think even at $1 a go, thats a couple of grand right there!!

As skunkchild says, the only uses of the html plugin have been from midnight & me (& mine was simply a pathetic ripoff of what midnight had already done :oops: ). The fact that other homescreens have not used the plugin maybe does suggest that take up of these plugins will be very limited - but maybe if the package contained several alternative designs then more people may at least purchase the plugin for their own use.

I think that homescreens/plugin tend to be an enthusiast kind of thing, rather than for the average smartphone user, and as such do not really qualify as a saleable product. It also would appear difficult to buck the trend of this kind of stuff being provided for free. Although, people reactions so far seem to be that if they consider it useful, then they would pay for it.

I also agree with chucky.egg that many homescreens will not appeal to the masses, & they are generally a very personal preference type of thing. I feel that anyone who is genuinely interested in homescreens/plugins will end up designing their own. I reckon it would be difficult to sell just a theme/homescreen. The background packs available at handango are definately aimed at the majority of smartphone users who would never customise their phone over & above adding a background image. Obviously modacoists would never pay for that! My own feeling is that if a plugin is packaged with a few nice designs (hopefully that were wide enough ranging to appeal to a broad speactrum of users) that it might make it a more attractive product.

Ultimately though, I would love to see plugin development take off in a big way. I have always loved the whole 'one click access' to apps, and being able to simply glance at my homescreen for info, without having to go into menus & open applications. Anything that would encourage plugin development would be worthwhile for me, and that includes paying for them.

[Guest drfonz]

I must say I agree with drblow on this one. Paying for "small items" such as plugins or Homescreens is a difficult thing to swallow but it might be a way to entice developers to offer more of their spare time to continue producing the goods. Having said that, when I say "small items" I know that SmartMonitor has quite a few thousand lines of code already, and that any of the top designers here spend many hours, adding up to weeks, on getting their designs just right.

Unfortunately, Homescreens and plugins are not a mainstream product, and even though this poll says otherwise, I have a feeling the bulk of users would not pay for what they consider small tweaks to their system.

What does this mean for plugin development? Well, I can only speak from my personal experience, and I must admit I started development on plugins because it was a fun thing to do, and I thought Modaco had given me a lot so it was time to give some back. It never crossed my mind to charge for the stuff. But seeing as others do, makes me feel uneasy. Do I keep on developing for free and seeing how others get all the money and as a side effect I feel like my plugins are not as worthy because they are free? Or do I suddenly decide to charge for them and upset quite a few of you?

It's a dilemma I have no answer for, but it is definitely making me think that perhaps I should put plugin development on hold until I make up my mind. The suggestion of selling packaged solutions is one that I agree with, although getting the content right for the majority could be a difficult one to solve...

I think I'll quit typing now because I feel myself going into rambling mode! Sorry for the intrusion, but I just though I'd give my opinion as a developer in the matter :lol:

Cheers!

Dr Fonz

[Guest drblow]

I'm sure I speak for the majority in saying that no-one would begrudge the great drfonz a charge for his most excellent plugins, considering the hard work that has gone into them! & surely would also speak for the majority in saying that it would be a great loss to homescreen/plugin development for the dr to quit making plugins!

Am I wrong? :lol:

[Guest markgamber]

As always, if it's something I can't do myself, then I have no problem paying for it, be it a phone, a game, a plug-in or anything else. In effect, the RJHTML already fits this category and it appears to have gone over pretty well. I see a plug-in more as a developer tool, however, much like a custom control you'd add to a VB application.

[Guest chucky.egg]

I don't know how this might work, but perhaps Plus membership could support the "little developments" (I know that plugins aren't really little, but they feel like little things to the user)

What if Plus membership was to go up by £1 and MoDaCo sponsored a plugin for the whole community (not just Plus members) every 3/6/12 months?

The developers could then charge a small fee to add the plugin to an existing homescreen, which would get them a bit more income from the people that want the plugin, but don't know how to add it.

The plugins could still be sold on Handango and Smartphone.NET, after all not every one who owns a smartphone comes here so some people will be unaware that they can get it for free.

The only downside to that plan is that Plus members are a *very* low percentage of MoDaCo members.

Obviously it's not my place to decide what MoDaCo should spend the income it gets from the Plus subscriptions... Paul might want to have some say in that I guess! :lol:

[Guest sullivanpt]

Capitalism comes to home screens.

I am new to Smartphones and new to Modaco. I didn't mean to shake things up here. Let me try and explain my situation and explain why I put a price tag on my scrolling appointment plug in.

Am I wishing to get rich developing for the smart phone? Absolutely!

Would I have written it if I didn't hope to get a return? No.

Do I feel a strong obligation to support my paying customers? Yes.

Have I become rich? No, read on...

My dream is to make enough money from shareware that I can quit my day job, work full time on smart phone, tablet PC, and PDA development, and still make enough money so that my wife and baby don't starve to death. :D I am so committed to this dream that last year I made a deal with my employer to take a 20% pay cut in exchange for one day off per week. I use those 8 hours a week to develop and maintain shareware.

As a new member, I cannot speak for the smartphone community. But allow me to relate my experiences with the PDA community.

Last year, I developed a limited voice dialer application for Pocket Pc Phone Edition devices. It was the first of it's kind for the PPC PE and, in my opinion, filled a big gap in the device's original functionality. The product was moderately well received with 7000 trial downloads, and I received approximately $1500 (US) gross over 16 months. Sales on the prodcut now are virtually zero, because new devices almost always have the better (and more expensive) voice dialer applications in ROM.

Now a little math to see how I did. Let's leave my voluntary 20% pay cut out of the equation (I am the senior level engineer at a small san francisco based company). Let's also leave out the cost of development hardware such as computers, PDAs (and Smartphones ;) ), since one could argue I'd have bought these anyway. Leave out the cost of advertising and professional web sites (since I'm not particularly good at either of these -- though I do spend money on them). Leave out the "cost" of my time (the 80 hours to develop the voice dialer). And just look at the cost of the Microsoft development tools, $2799 per year. My net on the voice dialer? negative $1299!

Am I getting rich. No way! So far I'm just deferring my costs a little bit and hoping for something big in the future.

Am I achieving my dream of financial independance? Nope.

Am I providing a useful service to the community? I hope so.

Why $5. Honestly speaking, because that's the least amount of money Handango will allow me to charge for a software product. I guess they did some analysis and decided it wasn't worth their effort to distribute applications that cost less. I don't know, I just follow their rules.

If you ask those who would like to support me but can't afford to, I think they will tell you I'm no Scrooge :D .

For those who don't think I'm worth $5, I offer up what I think is a steal! A completely functional, non-expiring version of my product with one asthetic blemish (and if you happen to prefer pink, candy cane colored backgrounds, you'd never even notice it :lol: ).

I hope that $5 will be considered reasonable to those who wish to support me in my efforts.

Anyway, that's my story. Thanks for reading it.

Patrick

[Guest drblow]

thanks for your comments patrick. i would make no secret of the fact that it was your plugin that started this train of thought for me. please dont take this as an attack on you or your motives. i am all for developers being able to make a living from smartphone - it'll make the platform bigger + better! personally i havent bought your plugin, but thats only coz i'm reluctant to pay for it til its finished!

the homescreen is traditionally a fee-free area of smartphone, + i would not be overly suprised if it would be a difficult area to make profitable. but i would be happy to support you + other developers if it means better plugins. so for myself i say good luck to ya! it would be very interesting to keep up to date with how you are doing out of this. obviously wouldnt ask you to post your yearly accounts, but i would love to know how it works out.

just out of interest though, handango are selling the analogue clock plugin for 1.95, so it would seem odd for there to be a minimum price of 5!? it might be worth getting clarification from them about that.

by the way, are you looking for a designer!? ;0)

Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest awarner [MVP]]

It's an interesting idea and has been discussed in the past many times. This happened when Mad Beetle charged for their plugins

Normally the general vote is a negative to paying so it will

be good to see if the view has changed or not in the last year.

[Guest The_Flames]

I would only pay for a plugin or a homescreen if it did something for me, but I'm really picky :D

I may of beem tempted to pay for the RJShortcut plugin If I didnt have the Orange plugin to use ;)

I usally go for free alterntivies if there is a choice, but who wouldnt.

The idea of a donation for a plugin is probably the strongest way of getting me to part with hard cash, espeacally if the plugin auther made changes which were just for me :lol:

[Guest drblow]

i think really that if people see value in a plugin, then they will pay for it. the fact that it has been free should not negate the possibility of developers charging for a quality product.

my main concern would be that the potential market for plugins would be too small to sustain developers, and that in the process, the nice tradition of enthusiasts offering plugins for free will slip away. i would personally much rather see a market for plugins develop + expand, than wait for a few plugins per year to be released for free!

Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest midnight]

what i think we need is not only to have free plugins, but i think the developers of these plugins should start releasing their source. Its a well known fact that homescreen plugins are notoriously difficult to create, so the more sources out there the more plugins/modifications of plugins we'll see.

[Guest mlab]

Am I providing a useful service to the community? I hope so.  

Thanks Sullivanpt.

I'm totally agree with you. :wink:

No customer , no supplier.

only a community and only a free one. not a formated one.

Please.

This is my opinion.

[Guest nickcornaglia]

I've paid for Today Screen plugins for the PPC, And have no problem paying for homescreen plugins that are useful to me. No offense, but I'd prefer that they work fully before putting them out for sale. But generally the pricing is minimal for plugins and I dont mind paying a small price to support the development. Like Midnight said...they are difficult to program (at least that's what I've been led to believe).

SO charge away...If I can use it I'll buy it, If I can't...then I'm free to pass it by.

Oh, and buying homescreens....not a penny...ever. That's just robbing the community.

[Guest mlab]

No probs Encece.

That's your opinion. and I respect that. :wink:

[Guest nickcornaglia]

You know what they say about opinions.... :wink:

[Guest sullivanpt]

For what it's worth, I agree with encece in that software should be working to specification before it's put up for sale.

In the case of my scrolling appointment plug-in, I thought it worked to my specs when I released it -- I was wrong. And because I had paying customers, I felt absolutely obligated to drop everything on my calendar (including a vacation to the lake) to fix the issues. I even gave an extra 22 hours to develop requested features that weren't in my original plan, such as customizable layouts.

The total development time on the plug in so far has been 82 hours. Excluding all equipment and development software costs, I've made 42 cents an hour on this plug-in. For the 44% of the voters who said my time should be donated: I don't know what you do for a living, but if you want to practice what you preach, I've got plenty of odd jobs here that need doing, rent that needs to be paid, and three mouths that need feeding. PM me your name and phone number and I'll put you to work :lol:

On a different related topic, Motofone wrote: "Your using open source for your plugin that you have already charged for."

I hope I'm not using "open source" (such as GNU license) samples in my development. I agree, that would be immoral and illegal. In developing this program I have used MSDN samples and documentation, EVC 3.0 samples and documentation (especially the helloplug sample and the xmlsample), The Virtuoffice tutorial, and Riki's Pragmatic Hints and Tricks, and the MSDN managed newsgrouped. It is my understanding that these sources can all be included in commercial applications. Please PM me if I have misinterpreted the copyright or licenses associated with these. In addition, for those areas where I could find no quality documentation and where tens of hours of trial and error were required, I have freely volunteered and posted my findings. I hope that doing so will save future developers hours of frustration.

If you still are appalled that I didn't write every line of code from scratch, I've just listed every source I used. Nothing is preventing you from recreating the plugin yourself. -- I thought it was quite a difficult bit of effort, and I appreciate those willing to encourage and support my efforts.

Anyway, those are my opinions. I'm probably just an unenlightened American capitalist though...

P.S. I could use a free, new C500 too.

[Guest nickcornaglia]

No offense was intended by my comment. I understand these things happen and you are making EVERY effort to fix it which is certainly great.

And please, dont apologize for selling your product. Capitalism is very apparent throughout the smartphone world in various forms. Everybody tries to make a buck when they can in one way or another. :lol:

[Guest sullivanpt]

Maybe I foamed at the mouth a bit much there. :oops: No offense was taken or intended.

I'm a little short on sleep at the moment.

Click here to see the "Hungry little mouth" if you wish.

I'll keep quiet on this topic for a little while. :-#