Guest nickcornaglia Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Cute Kid! #58 is the cutest. I never say a baby with blond hair before...or is it red. That's from being brought up amond mostly italians! :D Glad he got his mommy's ears! :lol: :D ;) JUST KINDDING DONT GET MAD!!! :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sullivanpt Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 #58 is the wife's favorite right now too. Grazie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drblow Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 There seems to be a pretty even spread in the poll between people who would pay nominal charges, and those who would not. Basically, I think what we are looking at here is the general opinions of modaco members who are quite used to getting alot of software for free through the community. I believe that modaco represents a very small number out of the totality of smartphone users throughout the world, so this poll will not be an indicator of the market place in general. I have to agree with the comments made about the scrolling appts plugin being released for sale before being completely finished. Strictly speaking thats why I haven't bought a copy myself. This community is very used to the practice of beta testing, and it would seem from past experience that developers use this (& other) boards for testing as a means of properly developing a product before it is released to the buying public. Most of this is done on a free basis, but not always. I think the dilemma here comes from the fact that homescreens & plugins have been free in the past. Many people have spent many hours making things, which are eventually posted here for other users. It's a bit of a community thing, you know?! :lol: Again, as an enthusiast homescreen designer, it brings a new dilemma to me. Do I pay for a plugin, then spend weeks designing a nice screen using it, which I release for free, which may in turn encourage other people to buy the plugin? Or do I simply not use paid-for plugins in my designs? Either option has it's problems I'm sure you'll agree. I don't imagine that anyone is really annoyed about this plugin having a charge, it's just that it will obviously limit the people downloading it to those who really see a value in it. But that principle will apply to any piece of software. If people want it, they'll buy it, simple as that! As I have said before, I didn't start this thread to flame Patrick for charging for his plugin, & I certainly would support his efforts to make a living from developing smartphone plugins, because it may in time lead to a more dynamic development of plugins - something which I would welcome! However, having had a look at the download totals on handango for the few plugins there, the market is clearly nowhere near the size of applications/games etc, so I just wonder if it makes good business sense to concentrate on plugins as a saleable product. That was my main reason for starting the poll, was to see if there might be a sustainable market for plugins - the results have been far from conclusive I think you'll agree! My main concern is that developers with an interest in plugins, will see this as a reason to stop making them. I just worry that people will see this as a negative thing - what was once a traditional community benefit, becomes another part of the commercial world. This may turn off users on the forum, and potential developers, who feel their time is better spent on applications/games, and not plugins. As you said before Patrick, you sold approx 7000 copies of your PPC app - if you can manage the same with this plugin then I take my hat off to you! Do you know what you'll do if you don't? Will that be the end of your plugin development? I hope not! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midnight Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 drblow, you kind of hit the nail on the head. For a plugin to work well it needs homescreens to be designed for it. however, as a homescreen designer, why would i use a plugin that costs money, that people may or may not buy, meaning my homescreen is only released to a few people. If i design a homescreen i expect it to be released to everyone, for free. The exception to this (at first) was the RjHTML plugin homescreen, which is why i suggested a free version of the plugin that encrypts the urls so no-one else can use that plugin correctly. But in general it isnt possible to put such restrictions on a plugin and still make it fully functional. And this is why i will never use plugins other than free ones (and even then its rare, i prefer my homescreens to just work straight away without plugins, but i see i'm losing the battle with that if i want to 'keep up with the Jones's') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drfonz Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Hi guys, I think this thread has definitely made my mind up and I believe plugin development is not the way to go. I believe drblow is right (yet again... I'm sure some of you wonder whether we're the same person! ;)) in that the money is in apps and games and not plugin development. And I personally think that since designers give their time to the community to produce fantastic Homescreens, I think it's unfair to charge for the basic components of these Homescreens. Plus, if I charge for my plugins, I'm sure I won't see many Homescreens out there using them, ant to tell you the truth, that's where I get my kicks from, seeing loads of people using them :lol: So, I have decided to drop plugin development and focus in something potentially a bit more lucrative. Having said that, this doesn't mean that this "something else" might not include a free plugin to go with it :D There's my 2 pence worth! Dr Fonz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drblow Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 You go doc! :D P.S. Has anyone ever seen drblow & drfonz online at the same time?? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nickcornaglia Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Alright...now you went and screwed with DrFonz's head and have taken him out of the plugin creation business!!! And that sucks because he just made a really cool one and there was a promise of even more. I agree there is no real money to be made with plugins. Most users dont/wont create their own homescreens. But for those who do...there is nothing wrong with creating a homescreen that requires a pay-plugin. If you want to use the homescreen...pay for the plugin. Then you'll be able to use other homescreens that use the same plugin or make/modify your own. But in the end...the amount of people who buy plugins in going to be minimal. Not because they are cheap (and there are alot of cheapies out there) but because they dont take the time to learn homescreen creation. I like the PPC homescreen model better. Minimal customization of appearance but maximum availability of plugins that are just picked from a list and moved up or down. And YES you need to pay for many of them...and many many people do. But to DrFonz and other plugin developers out there. Make your money where you can. Develop apps and games to sell until you're rich. But dont lose the community spirit of developing plugins...for no other reason than...YOU CAN! Functionality & an abundance of information is what I want on my homescreen. There's not much out there and I'm not learning programming any time soon. So it's up to you and developers like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drfonz Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 I only ever did one PPC Today Screen plugin, and I released that one for free as well. I just think the perception of such a small item on your screen is that it should be free, even thought they are quite tricky to write. I just got a new job with the very people who created the Smartphone OS :lol: so I will be very busy with other things for now. I like creating plugins that are useful, and that people use in as many Homescreens as possible, but it is quite disheartening when someone... oh never mind! I will be quite busy in the near future flying off to Seattle and things, but when I get some spare time I shall look back at my previous post and probably ingnore it completely. I'm a sucker for community values, and a simple thank you sometimes is worth more than gold. Unfortunately we all have to eat, so that's where my practial side comes along and makes me think that perhaps plugins are not what I should be doing in my spare time. But hey, only time will tell what I do next :D Cheers guys! Dr Fonz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drblow Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 It will indeed be a shame for drfonz to stop making plugins altogether! :cry: I'm with encece - I want functionality & lots of it ... even if I do have to pay! But I suppose a developer has gotta make a living somehow! I thought that this might happen though - the introduction of capitalism to plugins was probably inevitable, and this is just one of the possible consequences. I'm pretty sure that whatever the good dr turns his hand to will be a quality item! & it'll probably have a quality plugin too!! Now, all things considered, I'd much rather pay for a great app that has a plugin, eh!? :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drfonz Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Right, I swear drblow and I are NOT the same person! :lol: Thank you very much for your kind words Dr! I shall indeed come back in the not too distant future with hopefully something that might appeal to people :D Dr Fonz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rpitera Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 drblow, you kind of hit the nail on the head. For a plugin to work well it needs http://www.modaco.com/viewforum.php?f=43>homescreens to be designed for it. however, as a homescreen designer, why would i use a plugin that costs money, that people may or may not buy, meaning my homescreen is only released to a few people. If i design a homescreen i expect it to be released to everyone, for free. The exception to this (at first) was the RjHTML plugin homescreen, which is why i suggested a free version of the plugin that encrypts the urls so no-one else can use that plugin correctly. But in general it isnt possible to put such restrictions on a plugin and still make it fully functional. And this is why i will never use http://www.modaco.com/viewtopic.php?t=714>plugins other than free ones (and even then its rare, i prefer my http://www.modaco.com/viewforum.php?f=43>homescreens to just work straight away without http://www.modaco.com/viewtopic.php?t=714>plugins, but i see i'm losing the battle with that if i want to 'keep up with the Jones's') <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe the answer would be for HS Designers and Plugin designers to work a deal where the Plugin designer could give a free version to the HS desinger to encourage not only the HS design (which could be included with the PAID plugin package) but also encourage more sales. It's in the plugin designer's best interest to sell more http://www.modaco.com/viewtopic.php?t=714>plugins; the benefit to the HS designer would be wider exposure - which for most HS designers is all they getout of it anyway. Ya think:?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drblow Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Well, since the release of the scrolling appointments plugin, I have made a few themes that use it. Because it can be replaced by the default calendar plugin, then I can make several xml layouts that will allow people to use the homescreen without having to purchase the plugin. I'm sure Patrick won't mind me telling you I did get a free copy! 8) Along with several other beta testers involved in the same thread here a while ago. But I'm happy to include it in my theme designs, as long as I can replace it with something else that looks pretty much the same. So, essentially, what you are saying is quite right. :) However, the problem for me still remains, that if a plugin is developed that does something that cannot be replaced by default or free alternatives (eg smartmonitor) then I can't design a homescreen but still do alternative layouts that do not require the purchase of a third party plugin. Know what I mean? Ok, if I come to an arrangement with the developer and design some stuff, and we release them as a package, then cool. But the point being made above was that when homescreen themes & skins are being created & distributed free for the benefit of other forum members, then it would put people off if they had to purchase something from someone else in order to use your homescreen, which you are distributing for free. There are so many free http://www.modaco.com/viewforum.php?f=43>homescreens that it would limit the appeal if a screen requires a bought plugin. Also, we have to bear in mind that plugin developers are not going to have loads of homescreen designers jumping on their bandwagon for a few pecent every time they release something. So the amount of potential authors to get access to the free plugin for designs scenario would be very limited. And even if someone wants to buy the plugin, to use in their own designs, they'll be in the same situation if they want to post it for the benefit of the community. Know what I mean? When a plugin has to paid for in order for a homescreen to function, then the amount of interest in that homescreen is going to be limited, compared to the huge amount of free themes available. Access for people to create their own themes with commercial http://www.modaco.com/viewtopic.php?t=714>plugins will also be limited to those prepared to buy it. I'm not knocking commerciality (?), if anyone wants to pay for my themes then just send a cheque or postal order to ... :( No, really though! :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ppcmd Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I have been a PPC/PPCPE user for almost two years now and recently jumped onto my MPx220. One of the challenges I face is learning how to put http://www.modaco.com/viewtopic.php?t=714>plugins into a homescreen that it is not already in. I do not yet understand the ins and outs of XML and may very well never. I know homescreen designer is going to be updated again and maybe I will get it working for me to try. But I would pay for the http://www.modaco.com/viewtopic.php?t=714>plugins that I find useful much like I do for the WMPC side. But the challenge for me and many other new users is putting them into a homescreen, its not like the PPC where you just move the today screen item. For me I tried out the app by sullivanapt since it was tied to a homescreen. I liked it found it useful but the homescreen wasn't what I wanted so I removed it all. I would pay for it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RussellH Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Please forgive me for being so thick. My knowledge of all these things is so basic compared to many of the Modaco experts here. Could someone explain the difference between a homescreen and a plugin. I think the homescreen definition is pretty self explanatory, but I'm not sure about http://www.modaco.com/viewtopic.php?t=714>plugins. From my point of view, I haven't changed my homescreen, as none that I've seen are quite what I'd be looking for. As someone else pointed out here in an earlier post, I wouldn't download a homescreen unless it did exactly what I need / want. Haven't seen one yet. If I did see one that appealed to me, I would be more than happy to pay for it. I like the idea of getting anything for free, but anyone who puts in work and effort for other people's benefit surely deserves some sort of remuneration. Whats a fiver or less for something that makes your life easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chucky.egg Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Please forgive me for being so thick. Don't worry - you'll catch up Could someone explain the difference between a homescreen and a plugin. I think the homescreen definition is pretty self explanatory, but I'm not sure about plugins A Homescreen is the collection of information that your phone shows when in standby mode (until the screen powers off to save energy!) A plugin is a bit of code that lets the homescreen display a specific piece (or pieces) of information. So there is a plugin to display the number of SMS messages in your Inbox, another for the calendar appointments, another for the battery and signal levels and so on. Homescreens are made up of graphics and (often, but not always) a number of Plugins. Whats a fiver or less for something that makes your life easier? Quite. Creating Plugins is a hard slog from what people have said (never even tried, and probably won't either!). Creating homescreens, by comparison, is a piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drblow Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Creating homescreens, by comparison, is a piece of cake. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oi! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RussellH Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Just out of curiosity - how come the percentage results on the poll don't add up to 100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chucky.egg Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Oi! :( <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry mate, but they were going to find out for themselves sooner or later! :) What about this for an idea... All the Plugin creators, Homescreen designers (and wannabees like me perhaps) create their best stuff, and it all gets compiled into... a compilation. That compilation gets flogged on Handango for $5 or whatever, and each contributor gets a percentage based on the number of their items in that compilation (so 10 screens out of 100 gets you 10% - 50c in this example - of each sale) Developers / Designers make some money The public get a big, cheap selection of homescreens Those homescreens can still be given away free (for those that know where to look - MoDaCo and Coolsmartphone by the sounds of it), Repeat until loaded ... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scott2eyes Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Interesting question... Reminds me of when the first phones with editable ringtones came out- I thought they were a great idea, spent ages programming New Order and the like into mine (and my friends'.) Then a few websites/numbers etc. for ringtones you could buy started appearing- which at the time I thought was stupid. Why would anyone spend money on such a pointless thing? The fact that something in the region of thousands of pounds are now spent every week by people wanting to spend money on just that, and the fact that some ringtone sales actually exceed the sales for the corresponding CD singles goes to show how far my finger is from the pulse; after all, not everybody can copy a tune- let alone one using a bizzarre code and a phone handset to do it!. But all the same, I'd hate to see phone homescreens go the same way. (Which I guess is part of the reason I wrote the guide I wrote- and also a big part of the reason I'm so fond of MS Smartphones...) Now, I have no problem with someone else charging for something they have made- I would tend not to pay myself, but that's mainly because I'm a cheapskate (Excluding the actual call charges, I've probably spent a total of about £100 on mobile phones, software and accessories, and I've had about 12 phones over the last 10 years!) The 3 main problems I would have with charging money for a homescreen I had designed are; a) I learnt how to do it by taking apart other peoples homescreens. When I build a homescreen, I do it by cannibalising existing homescreens- either the default MSN ones, or ones downloaded from (usually) MoDaCo. (Or my own ones that are modified versions of them.) Quite simply, I wouldn't be happy to take money from them when a significant portion of the work has been done by someone else. (Similarly, I wouldn't be happy if I saw someone making money if I thought that their work was a modified version of something I had done, but I wouldn't be happy trying to make my own design difficult to copy or modify.) :D If I charged, I would feel obliged to provide support- make modifications and so on. But I do this kind of thing in my free time- I have a hard enough time staying focussed on a homescreen idea to get it to a "finished" state; let alone to go back to it when I'm onto another idea to get it working for someone else. It would completely take the fun out of it. Which, at the end of the day, is what it's all about; as Keith Barrett would say, it's just a bit of fun. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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