Guest spacemonkey Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Well, we all knew it was capped to 10mb. I think you miss the point, we all knew there was this policy to some degree and I think for a lot of people this policy was presented to them on this forum not by Orange. We however were a) unable to effectively monitor our levels of usage :D unaware that any breach of this cap was going to be charged at £8/Mb Personally I have been deliberately keeping my usage extremely light to avoid being the test case but becayse of no way to monitor my usage I didn't know if I was being overly paranoid or whether I was still breaching these limits. It also comes down to what is a legitimate advertising of a product and service. Oranges own T&Cs copied above by Paul aren't even clear, it says fair usage is 10Mb it doesn't state a time period, maybe that means 10Mb for the full duration of the trial, maybe that's per week. The T&Cs certainly clearly state that charging for a breach of this limit will not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pibrahim Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 A lot of this discussion doesn't really affect me as I used 2.1MB in my first month (I don't stream video or anything, just check the news, football scores, etc), but the one thing thats absolutely RIDICULOUS is that if Orange intend on charging for any data over 10MB, they absolutely have to provide a free way of checking this! Its unbelievable that they expect people to pay an extra tenner or so for a program to check GPRS usage that should have been included in the first place! Same with IA Album, I don't like Orange/MS's policy of effectively missing out/poorly implementing key parts of the software and charging customers extra for programs to use the hardware in a way they envisaged from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spacemonkey Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Its unbelievable that they expect people to pay an extra tenner or so for a program to check GPRS usage that should have been included in the first place! This tool isn't really entirely useful anyway, it counts all GPRS traffic through the phone which will include any WAP (goes through GPRS to Oranges WAP proxy and MMS picture messages (goes through GPRS to Oranes MMS gatewy) Orange's own billing does not count these services as part of you GPRS usage so the All-locations GPRS counter will not actually provide you with accurate figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sparks1061 Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Have just spoken to Lisa on 152, what a complete waste of time, however she has promised to send me a copy of the terms and conditions applying to the SPV promotion, so lets see what arrives, bu I'm not holding my breath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stu_lowe2003 Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Hello I have just contacted orange and have found out something very interesting. I spoke to a woman called Mair (pronounced Maya) in the Wireless technical support level 1 department from 156. By me acting a little ignorant she informed me that the SPV GPRS bundle had no limit she basically said that the aggreement is subject to a fair usage policy (upon pushing she tells me this is 10MB). However, I asked if I would be charged for going over this and she said NO , she said that I would be informed about my usage and that we would then be able to discuss what to do about it ('a warning' is what she called it). She told me that there is no set charges for excessive use, and that any amount above 10MB would not be charged. Obviously Orange could tell me that she was wrong, SO.... I have had the conversation written into my account notes at orange and read back to me. She agrees that there is no way with this written into my account that i can be charged for any extra uasge. If needed I can get hold of the account notes, but I believe the administrative charge to get the info under the data protection act is about 20quid. I do have a rather long history of complaints with orange, and have always managed to get what i want with enough persistence. Hope this helps Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Firaas Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 The t&c's for the SPV pack are different to the GPRS access pack. The SPV pack terms are at http://www.orange.co.uk/business/products/...espv/terms.html, and do not specify that Orange can charge you for going over any limit - so theoretically you could use 3gb in your month, and Orange would not be allowed to charge you more than £6, although they could disconnect you from the SPV pack tariff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pupton Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 This is pretty serious as this thread is going backwards and forwards... Im sitting here quaking in my boots at the bill that I may get purely for using my spv on a daily basis for email & internet access. Paul(Moderator) I think that we need an official response from Orange to sort out the whole mess on the SPV GPRS billing front. Is this something you have the contacts to sort out? :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Firaas Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 I rang 156 to check their stance on this, and the lady informed me that there was a £10/meg charge on anything above 10mb after the first warning. I informed her of the terms and conditions, and she said that I'd be best speaking to the legal department, which she's putting me through to (I thought that was a non-customer facing dept). So on the hold to Christmas tunes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Treadsoftly Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 I am certainly not looking forward to receiving my bill at the end of the week, and might have to go to my nearest cardiac resus unit before I open the envelope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidhorn Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Posted a brief article at http://www.smartgamer.org advising care with the Orange plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 As mentioned previously, I have requested an official response from my contact in the Orange Media Centre. I am also currently on hold with Christmas Music on the 'Customer Relations Billing Line' (again), trying to get this sorted! :D P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Firaas Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 OK, Orange's legal department's decision: If I go over 10mb, notification'll be sent to me that I have done, and that I must reduce my usage. If I breach the 10mb limit again, Orange will immediately withdraw me from the service. The bills will show up as if I've been charged for anything over 10mb (because of the way the system is designed), but Orange frontline staff will credit any overcharging. If anyone's been overcharged, give me an email on [email protected] and I'll get you the name/extension number of a lady who should be able to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stu_lowe2003 Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 if you have not been contacted by orange then they leagelly CAN NOT charge you anything. If they claim to have tried then ask for proof/records. As they said to me they intend the fair use policy to cover those 'taking the piss', I don't think anyone here has done that. As I said before they have to contact you before anything else can occur, that is part of your legally binding contract for yourself and orange. Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Orange are now calling me back. I won't hold my breath :D Could you pm me those details firaas? Might need 'em as ammo! Heh... P (Never been more tempted to throw the SPV out the window) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Is it just me right, or is the SPV a great phone with unlimited GPRS, and a bag-o-shite if you aren't going to use all that stuff? As a phone/text messaging/picture messaging device it has a lot of flaws. As a browsing/email collecting/music streaming device it rocks, but not at Orange GPRS prices. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barncourt Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 The t&c's for the SPV pack are different to the GPRS access pack. The SPV pack terms are at http://www.orange.co.uk/business/products/...espv/terms.html, and do not specify that Orange can charge you for going over any limit - so theoretically you could use 3gb in your month, and Orange would not be allowed to charge you more than £6, although they could disconnect you from the SPV pack tariff. Lovely. :D These T&Cs do not mention anything about being charged for exceeding 10mb (i.e. they do not quote a rate), merely that you might be disconnected from the service. I shall keep a copy of that page for future reference. To anyone that has been charged, write a letter to Orange's legal dept stating that you believe they have broken their own T & Cs. Consequently, unless they reimburse you, you will undertake legal action to recover costs against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Firaas Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 If you want to resolve it without writing, it might be worth asking the member of frontline staff who's dealing with them to ask their legal department about the t&c's for this pack. The dept is not customer-facing, but staff use it to check up on clauses etc. The legal department are aware of the what is in the t&c's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tom Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Is it just me right, or is the SPV a great phone with unlimited GPRS, and a bag-o-shite it you aren't going to use all that stuff? As a phone/text messaging/picture messaging device it has a lot of flaws. As a browsing/email collecting/music streaming device it rocks, but not at Orange GPRS prices. I'd agree for the most part. For example, this morning whilst I was putting up with travelling on the scummy and thoroughly demoralising silverlink train to work, I was able to listen to a few MP3s *and* check out the Guardian. That rocked, big time. As for the actual phone part itself... I wouldn't be happy to pay a hundred notes just that. Saying that, though, the only things that naff me off are not being able to find a newline character for use in emails (probably being stupid) and that pictures can only be taken via bloody MMS. Shame. This weekend I started a new liason via email via the SPV. That rocked :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Hehe... The newline character is pressing the 'Action Button', and fork out for IA Album and you will be able to take pics without composing an MMS. I REALLY hope the new software update fixes the regular 5 second pauses when using the SPV! P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danlance Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 ...Saying that, though, the only things that naff me off are not being able to find a newline character for use in emails (probably being stupid) ... Clicking the action button gives you a newline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kevlar Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 This must be the fastest growing forum thread ever! Kevlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Yay! * Orange have just credited my account the relevant amount after speaking to the legal department. They have also however issued me with my warning - if I continue to use over the 'Reasonable Use Limit', I will be removed from the Promotional Pack and not allowed to return. Ah well, at least I won't get whacked for any big charges without knowing! P * Only partial Yay, 10MB is NOT unlimited, and not exceeding reasonable use. Primarily, it's not enough to make real use of the SPV in a month. No more streaming radio for me :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kevlar Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 So, is 10mb per month/day/week or what? did they give you a definative answer? Kevlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tom Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Hehe... The newline character is pressing the 'Action Button', and fork out for IA Album and you will be able to take pics without composing an MMS. Bother. Couldn't find it in the manual anywhere. It's good to be sometimes. As for IA album, quite frankly Orange can eat it out of my arse. I'm a medium-usage customer, always pay on time etc. etc. With the SPV we're essentially unpaid testers and yet Orange has the audacity to "suggest" we pay for software that should be included on the phone. Some day I *shall* get my way on this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 I wonder how many people will be foolish enough to see the charges on their bill, think 'oh bugger', then pay the bill anyway? Norty Orange... P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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