Jump to content


Photo

Install non-orange apps

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1
gcruces

gcruces

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
Hey, what do we want a pocket pc and a freely downloadable SDK for? To use all the software we can get!!!

I really think I will return my phone if I can't install other stuff.

  • 1

#2
PaulOBrien

PaulOBrien

    It's My Party

  • Founder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,255 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, UK
  • Devices:All the Nexus!
  • Twitter:@paulobrien
Apparently there are changes planned on this front, watch this space!

I can understand Orange's point of view, but I should be able to choose to have the MS root certificate, and forfeit application support from Orange.

P

  • 0

You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/paulobrien / Follow MoDaCo on Twitter - http://twitter.com/modaco

Want to donate? MoDaCo is raising money for the Multiple Sclerosis society.

Posted Image


#3

  • Guests
I watched a 1 1/4 hour streamed video of some clowns at microsoft spinning yarns and demoing the spv....
WOW i gotta get me one 'o' them i thought

loads of free software already available they hinted
50 companies working to bring out apps
wow

it was just like installing windows 98 (version 1 not se)and reading the screen as it installs
(mind you it is the only operating system worth having for a serious home user who likes a stable machine that runs most pc software)

now im wishing i had details of the filespecs (bitrate resolution sound) it can handle for movies

  • 0

#4
graham

graham

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts
Paul - have you heard rumours about this? Can you tell us any more? Its the only thing stopping me buying one at the moment...

  • 0

#5
dodgybob

dodgybob

    Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Location:London, UK
  • Interests:Techy Geeky stuff
Well... from what I know right now... The main problem is the Operator signatures...

This is how it goes {correct me if im wrong} :

A software developer wants to develop software for the Smartphone so he/she has to apply to become a "partner", if you are approved you can then download the Smartphone SDK from microsofts website... once this is done you can program to your hearts content and create some piece of useful software {you can test it out on the emulator that is provided with the SDK}!

If you then want to test it on a "real" phone you have to get your software certified/signed by Orange... i.e. Orange/MS wqill look at your program and say wether or not it will be allowed to be put on the Phone... The application for this costs a lot of money... $300? Im not too sure of the price... Only if Orange/MS are satisfied with the product do they allow it to be run on the smartphone platform! They can do this by means of application signing... where when the software runs it checks if it is allowed to be run on the system... if not it comes up with errors!

Orange/MS have declared that this is a way of preventing hackers/crackers creating stuff that can damage the phones and the carriers networks (orange)!
How can this be done? E.g. Some guy makes a virus that you download thinking its a copy of doom! The virus spreads instantly by MMS'ing/E-mailing itself to other ppl on your contacts via GPRS (always on)! Then the network gets cripples thousdands of handsets get bugged...
... This is possible but it can be avoided (its identical to the issue on PC's - So I dont think it should be treated any different)... they could restrict the softwares access capabillities... so it cant do too much damage... {this is done in the Symbian OS's}

The main gripe to this is that every other Smartphone OS seems to have a way of getting around the problem without resorting to expensive carrier application signing fees (e.g. Symbian OS has tonnes of freeware stuff thats downloadable and runnable...and java...... no complains from their users!)

My personal opinion on this is that 'M$'/Orange are trying to maximise their profits! Orange have subsidised the cost of the phone heavily! Therefore they will not make too much money on the phone sales themselves... most of the profits are to be made by commodity services such as downloadable stuff etc... They think that ppl will go for this device! Developers see this too. Microsoft think developers will then spend money on getting applications authorised {some will}... so they get money from that {and so do Orange}! So they make profit... remember Orange/M$ is not doing this as "good will to man kind" they are doing this because they are big multi-national corps who want more and more money!!!

But hey.. i'd still buy one...

Resolution: This is a major gripe because developers all over the world are crying out saying this is a major problem... M$ are curently assesing the situation.. Keep your noses and eyes peeled... you never know they might make a decision that might help us all {in time for XMas - lets just hope}

btw... sorry for long message :D

  • 0
Dodgybob
blah...blah...blah...

"Ok. So whats the speed of dark?"

#6
PaulOBrien

PaulOBrien

    It's My Party

  • Founder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,255 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, UK
  • Devices:All the Nexus!
  • Twitter:@paulobrien
Yep, these are exactly the rumblings I have heard.

I would be very suprised if Orange didn't reverse their decision and re-add the root certificate to the SPV very soon...

P

  • 0

You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/paulobrien / Follow MoDaCo on Twitter - http://twitter.com/modaco

Want to donate? MoDaCo is raising money for the Multiple Sclerosis society.

Posted Image


#7
dodgybob

dodgybob

    Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Location:London, UK
  • Interests:Techy Geeky stuff
Lets all hope that they sort this all out!

FOr the sake of the PSV and Orange and Microsoft...

... and us!

  • 0
Dodgybob
blah...blah...blah...

"Ok. So whats the speed of dark?"

#8
joelj

joelj

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 35 posts
  • Location:West Sussex, UK
Mmmm.

Might MS be waiting until (if) they release the .NET Compact Framework for the SmartPhone? This would give a lot more confidence to operators deciding whether to allow 3rd party apps knowing that any such apps will be effectively running in a sandbox with only as much privilege as the OS allows. I think this would make digitally signing code more meaningful too.

I can't see MS making a decision of .NET CF before the new year.

Thoughts?

joel

  • 0

#9
PolarBear

PolarBear

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 11 posts
[quote]

This is how it goes {correct me if im wrong} :
:D[/quote]OK. Here's how it works. If you get a trojan on a smarthphone the consequences can be pretty dire. Imagine something which sends hundreds of SMSs. The effect on the network is bad, but then what happens when your bills go out. Thousands of angry users call the carrier because their bills are "wrong. Not only is the network screwed, but so is customer service. Can't let that happen. So...
Smartphone supports code signing. The carrier determines the certificates which can be used on a particular phone. Microsoft's involvement ends at putting this feature in the OS.


[quote]
If you then want to test it on a "real" phone you have to get your software certified/signed by Orange... i.e. Orange/MS wqill look at your program and say wether or not it will be allowed to be put on the Phone...
:([/quote]

Wrong on four counts. Firstly if the carrier approves you as a developer they can enable your own cert on your phone(s) so that you sign your own code and put it on your phone(s) only. This is how corporate customers can write their own in house code. Secondly MS doesn't get involved in signing code distributed by other people. Third Orange only sign code to run on orange phones, if you get a smartphone on vodafone you'd need it signed by vodafone ... Fourth Carriers may broadcast certificates for trusted software vendors.

:([/quote]


[quote]My personal opinion on this is that 'M$'/Orange are trying to maximise their profits! Orange have subsidised the cost of the phone heavily! Therefore they will not make too much money on the phone sales themselves... most of the profits are to be made by commodity services such as downloadable stuff etc... They think that ppl will go for this device! Developers see this too. Microsoft think developers will then spend money on getting applications authorised {some will}... so they get money from that {and so do Orange}! So they make profit... remember Orange/M$ is not doing this as "good will to man kind" they are doing this because they are big multi-national corps who want more and more money!!!
:P[/quote]
Ah a conspiracy threorist.
1. Microsoft don't make money out of authorisations. They have suffered a lot of bad PR thanks to Outlook viruses, nimda etc. Its really got to them. (Just listen to them banging on about trustworthy computing). Microsoft makes its money in 3 places, the phone itself, backend software that the phone talks to, developer tools to write apps for the phone. Making it hard to get apps on the phone can cost microsoft sales in all three places, but they really think it is better to do that than to have some smartphone equivalent of the I love you virus.
2. I don't know where your number $300 to certify an app comes from, but you don't get a lot of developer/security consultant time for that. It wouldn't be a money making scheme.
3. Strangly Orange are not in the software business. They want to you to use the phone as much as possible. You're not going to make any more calls, so they want you take voice info services, SMS info services, use GPRS for mail and web etc etc. They are very aware of the balance they have to get here between letting people write apps that sell more Orange time and keeping things secure.

4. The best way for Orange to make money is to charge people per downloaded certificate. If you're a corporate with 10,000 SPVs orange could charge you $$ per phone to run your own in house apps on it. If you're a small s/w house orange charge you or your customer to send your cert to the customers phone. There's a lot more profit in that than in certifying apps. It remains to be seen if they do that.

PB

  • 0

#10
PaulOBrien

PaulOBrien

    It's My Party

  • Founder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,255 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, UK
  • Devices:All the Nexus!
  • Twitter:@paulobrien
I'm playing Zuma and Bejewelled by Astraware, after getting hooked playing then on XBox 360 Live Arcade :)

P

  • 0

You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/paulobrien / Follow MoDaCo on Twitter - http://twitter.com/modaco

Want to donate? MoDaCo is raising money for the Multiple Sclerosis society.

Posted Image


#11

  • Guests
Zuma and Chuzzle are my main games atm.

  • 0

#12
PaulOBrien

PaulOBrien

    It's My Party

  • Founder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,255 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, UK
  • Devices:All the Nexus!
  • Twitter:@paulobrien
Might have to give Chuzzle a go...

P

  • 0

You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/paulobrien / Follow MoDaCo on Twitter - http://twitter.com/modaco

Want to donate? MoDaCo is raising money for the Multiple Sclerosis society.

Posted Image


#13
PaulOBrien

PaulOBrien

    It's My Party

  • Founder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,255 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, UK
  • Devices:All the Nexus!
  • Twitter:@paulobrien
Worms World Party on (overclocked) Pocket PC is slick...

P

  • 0

You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/paulobrien / Follow MoDaCo on Twitter - http://twitter.com/modaco

Want to donate? MoDaCo is raising money for the Multiple Sclerosis society.

Posted Image


#14

  • Guests
Still chuzzles atm, got it installed on the c550 as well as the Vario
only problem is I have even more trophies to get this way :)

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users