Guest boyo69 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 I thought this little story would show O2 in a slightly new light.... a couple of weeks ago, my prized XDA2s developed 2 faults....one, it the on/off switch stopped working and the only way to power off was to remove the battery (??!!) and two, there was no audio what so ever coming from the speaker....nothing on media player, nothing on a call (although i rarely used it as a phone).... so, i rang the legendary CS and was told by a young person who clearly was on their first day of social speaking, that i needed to take it to my nearest O2 store... this i did, to be told it needed to go away for repair (no replacements allowed) and that it would be approx 2 weeks......no loan unit, nothing.... anyway, phone call 2 weeks later from an entirely different branch to say my phone was back........ so, go into the store to collect only to be told by the assistant that they had not repaired the unit...........IT WAS WATER DAMAGED !!!! personally, i have never used the pda in the rain, it has never left the expensive leather case that i lovingly enveloped it in.......plus, the screen was and still is in pristine condition, protected by the expensive protector that i purchased for it..................WATER DAMAGED!!! he then proceeded to show me a photocopy of the main board with more arrows than a Red Indian convention - allegedly this was my board indicating all the alleged water damage........... so after much discussion, whereby the assistant grunted, huffed, rolled his eyes, looked around the store several times at another argument that was taking place, he basically informed me there was nothing i could do........'claim on your household insurance'...........which bit of 'it has never been in the rain' did he not understand............ no repair, no replacement, don't care if i did write to Head Office, please take your £259.99 lovely pda with no audio/power button and leave.... WELL O2, YOU REALLY HAVE GOT LOUSY CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE..... so if anyone wants knows anywhere i CAN get this fixed, i would be grateful oh, and yes, i would definitely recommend Orange/Vodafone/T-Mobile to anyone !!!! _________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest philgriffiths Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 You could try directly to HTC (the makers) there is a link to their repair site somewhere on MoDaCo. If you do a search. One other thing to mention tho. The HTC Blue Angel can not be turned off. It's a PDA and not designed to be turned off! It one of the things a lot of people (including myself) didnt realise at first. The button at the top will only power up the device on first press and from then on turn the screen on and off. There are plenty of threads on here about this issue. It personally doesnt bother me. Since i never turn my phone off anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boyo69 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 You could try directly to HTC (the makers) there is a link to their repair site somewhere on MoDaCo. If you do a search. One other thing to mention tho. The HTC Blue Angel can not be turned off. It's a PDA and not designed to be turned off! It one of the things a lot of people (including myself) didnt realise at first. The button at the top will only power up the device on first press and from then on turn the screen on and off. There are plenty of threads on here about this issue. It personally doesnt bother me. Since i never turn my phone off anyway. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hi phil i meant to say that the button has stopped working completely....ie it doesn't turn the screen off and on........ pressing and holding will indeed turn the backlight off but a brief press which normally turns the screen off, doesn't!!!! thanks for the input though regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Phone trading standards on Monday. They'll be able to help or at least point you in the right direction. Especially as you are admanant that it didn't get wet at all, they are definately the first port of call for any dispute between you and a shop. They will be able to tell you about your rights, amoung which there are a few you aren't aware of, otherwise you would not be posting here! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adjonline Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Phone trading standards on Monday. They'll be able to help or at least point you in the right direction. Especially as you are admanant that it didn't get wet at all, they are definately the first port of call for any dispute between you and a shop. They will be able to tell you about your rights, amoung which there are a few you aren't aware of, otherwise you would not be posting here! :lol: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Indeed. Sale and Supply of Goods Act mean they can't do this. Depending on how long since initial purchase, they have to refund, replace or repair - within a certain time of purchase, they have to refund or replace at your discretion, although as I have said in another thread the contract of sale with regards to the handset is complicated by the contract of service with o2. As fraser said, Trading Standards will give you good advice. They are usually very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adjonline Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 One other thing...if anyone tries to claim that it's a HTC manufactured unit and not o2's concern, that's rubbish firstly because o2 have branded it, and thus are claiming to be the manufacturer, and secondly, because the contract of sale for the handset is with the seller not the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamShady Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 You could get it independantly checked by an electrician, and if he says its not water damage, you can claim against O2 for the costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 Sounds like it is water damage though, going on the photocopy of the damage shown by the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pondrew Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 I hate to defend O2 but in this case it's more then likely HTC's repair centre that the unit was sent to, and they who decided rightly or wrongly that the fault was water damage. HTC do say in their warranty terms and conditions they will decline to honour warranty repairs where there is evidence of blah blah blah. So, this could happen on any provider that sells HTC products. Afraid O2 are probably just the middle man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boyo69 Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 Having seen all of your great suggestions i think i will persue this further my main gripe to be honest, is the dismissiveness of O2 to do ANYTHING....in my mind, if the unit is not repairable under warranty, surely someone would offer to repair at a cost that could be argued over later.........to not even offer the solution to repair just seems far too final on a device that is less than 8 weeks old..... as i said, everything is perfect on the unit....the screen would definitely show signs of water ingress due to the way it is made....but it doesn't, it's absolutely crystal clear..........i wouldn't even have known about the alleged water damage if the on/off button and audio had ceased working....... my company OEM products, but we are seen as the manufacturer therefore we have to honour warranty/repair........ thanks for all your kind suggestions........... i will let you know the outcome of my fight!!! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drblow Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 I hate to defend O2 but in this case it's more then likely HTC's repair centre that the unit was sent to, and they who decided rightly or wrongly that the fault was water damage. HTC do say in their warranty terms and conditions they will decline to honour warranty repairs where there is evidence of blah blah blah. So, this could happen on any provider that sells HTC products. Afraid O2 are probably just the middle man. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> While I do agree with the above sentiments, I absolutely disagree with allowing that fact to blur the relationship between customer & supplier. The contract is between boyo69 and 02, not HTC. Although 02 may be a middle-man between the HTC device and the end customer, the fact is that the customer signs a contract with the service provider, not the device manufacturer - and any warranties or replacement issues are covered by T&C from the service provider. The liability lies with them to provide adequate service - and while some issues may indeed be related to the manufacturer, the customer is still entitled to service under the T&C from the service provider. I got a similar response from Orange over the e200 buzzing headset issue (remember that one!? :twisted: ). At first CS said it wasn't their fault, it was a device issue & HTC's problem. I insisted that I couldn't care less what manufacturer they claimed was to blame, they had supplied me with a product and I had signed an agreement with them. After a bit of grumbling and a few different supervisors, they eventually gave in and gave me a replacement (well, 7 replacements in the end!). I am not strictly sure about the legality of the situation, but obviously neither were Orange CS. But I definately feel that if presented in the correct way, the argument carries significant moral/ethical weight. It may just be that 02 customer service are indeed inferior to Orange. When I joined O about 4 years ago, I thought they were a great company with top quality customer service. Once I started with SPVs, I began to feel that OCS were a bunch of tossers who would be first against the all when the revolution comes! :lol: But to be fair to them, all my complaints etc were really related to the device itself, rather than the Orange service. And even though I had to fight for my rights on numerous occassions, they always came through with replacements/upgrades in the end. Even if I did have to threaten to cancel my contract a couple of times. I suppose I am on a high tariff (talk 400 - average monthly bill about 80 quid), which might have an effect on the retentions dept?! But I reckon that in the big picture, and in comparison to other networks, Orange generally do seem better than the rest for CS. So maybe the moral of the story will be that boyo69 should tell 02 to stick the contract where the sun don't shine (obviosuly refusing to pay any remaining line rental etc), follow that up with a letter to their CS management dept stating the reasons for cancellation etc etc, and then get an Orange contract with an M2000, which at least you know will get fixed if it ain't workin!! 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sprouts42 Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 I broke my m2000 over the weekend when the end of my 2.5mm to 3.5mm audio jack snapped whilst in the device. It cost me 100 quid, but i got a replacement the next morning delivered to my door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boyo69 Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 So maybe the moral of the story will be that boyo69 should tell 02 to stick the contract where the sun don't shine (obviosuly refusing to pay any remaining line rental etc), follow that up with a letter to their CS management dept stating the reasons for cancellation etc etc, and then get an Orange contract with an M2000, which at least you know will get fixed if it ain't workin!! 8) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> interestingly, i have just done that!! i called O2 CS and explained that i had a defunct unit that had cost me £259.99 only 8 weeks ago and that a repair hasn't even been offered to me, therefore i wish to terminate my contract because i didn't think that £20 per month for a small SIM represented good value for money....particularly as Orange were keen to take my money !!! you know what, because the phone was only 8 weeks old, the purchase (upgrade) actually formed a new 12mth contract, and so, O2 will charge me £145 termination fee if i cancel now !!! so, £260 dead pda and £145 to cancel !!!! allegedly, water damage units will NEVER be repaired because the cost would be the same as a new phone.......... the final suggestion was to buy a phone from them to use the SIM with..........i thought perhaps they meant another XDA xx but the choice was SE T630, Sagem something or other for £125!!!!! i asked what extra special price they could do a replacement XDA2s for and the answer was £309 !!! because it's not an upgrade!!! I just think O2 are pants.........their service sucks.....they have me by the proverbials............ to be continued .................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaser81 Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) @boyo69 I am genuinely sorry to hear that your XDAIIs is not working, I am painfully aware of how expensive these things are to replace, and I can only imagine how annoyed and angry you must be feeling right now. I want everyone to take a step back here, stop spouting off about trading standards, and breath.... Ready? Your phone is not working, granted. You played O2's game and sent it away for repair, which took 2 weeks you said, during which you werent even offered a replacement, thats annoying and obviously bad service, you are right to be angry about that. Your phone, however, was diagnosed by a trained engineer (probably at HTC's UK repair centre as O2 dont have their own repair centre, they send phones straight back to the manufacturers under warranty) as being faulty as a result of liquid ingress. Now stop and think. O2 have nothing to gain by lying to you about the condition of your phone and everything to lose because you will likely leave their network at the end of your contract and they wont get your revenue. You obviously (by the sounds of your posts) dont know how liquid got in there, and neither do they, but thats not the point. It could have gotten in a number of ways, rain being one of them (but condensation or steam being another likely way). They have proof of this liquid ingress, you said they showed you a photo of the main PCB with the spots marked where it had been contaminated, so in terms of arguing that its NOT liquid ingress, you pretty much dont have a leg to stand on, your only option in that regard being to have it looked at by an engineer privately to confirm that diagnosis (which will likely be a waste of time and money - as I said, O2 have nothing to gain by lying to you). Liquid ingress is not covered under any warranty I have EVER seen. The reason for this is that it DESTROYS the main board of the phone, whether immediately or over time, and even if they were to fix it, they could not guarantee the continued operation of the device in the long term. This will have been stated VERY clearly in your warranty. Now arguing with O2 about this situation is likely not to get you anywhere. It isnt your fault, granted, it may have been an accident, and I also fully believe you when you say you dont know how liquid got in there, but never-the-less it did. It isnt your fault, but it definately isnt O2's fault that it happened either and isnt their responsibility. THIS IS WHY EVERY MOBILE RETAILER SELLS MOBILE INSURANCE. If customers say to us in the shops "Insurance is a waste of time", or "Its too expensive", or my personal favourite "I've never broken my phone before", then as harsh as it may be, they have only themselves to blame when this happens to them. You can scream at the sky all you want, but you can bet that O2 have their bases ENTIRELY covered on this one, and the law totally on their side. To re-iterate, it states in the warranty that this type of damage is not covered, they have PROOF that this type of damage has occured, and no matter what any customer tries to say, you WILL have been offered to insurance to protect against this eventuality (Salespeople make most of their money in the sale on insurance, their is no way it wont have been offered to you, and it was your choice not to take it). You are going to have to bite the bullet on this one and fork out for a new phone, its harsh but true. And before anyone thinks I am having a pop, I am simply playing devils advocate on this one, and I know EXACTLY what boyo69 is going through, I spilt beer on my 3 week old I-Mate Jam and it isnt fun. The issue as to the level of customer service he received in this whole matter is different though, O2 dont appear to have been very sensitive in this whole thing, but he isnt going to get a new phone out of them because of slightly off-par service. Edited February 20, 2005 by Chaser81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 my main gripe to be honest, is the dismissiveness of O2 to do ANYTHING <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One thing you can always count on is that no half decent business would volentarily do things that cost them money. If they instantly gave everyone a replacement without hasstle, they'd go bankrupt pretty fast. So they put these hurdles in your place, and if you don't know any better, you get screwed. You asked a question here, but I'd bet there are a fair few folk in your situation are not doing anything about similar treatment. Speak to trading standards tomorrow. It's your best hope. Next time you speak to O2, things will be different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaser81 Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) Speak to trading standards tomorrow. It's your best hope. Next time you speak to O2, things will be different! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And what exactly are trading standards going to do about it? We are not talking about a warranty fault with the handset, we are talking about ACCIDENTAL DAMAGE. I guarantee it WONT be different next time he talks to O2, they have the law on their side with this one! Edited February 20, 2005 by Chaser81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drblow Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 @boyo69 Liquid ingress is not covered under any warranty I have EVER seen. The reason for this is that it DESTROYS the main board of the phone, whether immediately or over time, and even if they were to fix it, they could not guarantee the continued operation of the device in the long term. Hmm ... interesting points, and well made! :lol: My only concern from that would be if the alleged water damage DESTROYS the main board, then would it not seem a little strange that the only problems with the actual device were non-functioning buttons? If water damage is so serious, then would it not cause more problems than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaser81 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 It generally does cause more problems than that, but over time. It may start off as a problem with malfunctioning buttons, but over time as the corrosion gets worse the unit will become increasingly temperamental and may cease functioning completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boyo69 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 thanks everyone............ @chaser81 - i think the way you have described it is perfectly fair....if only you worked for O2 and were the person i spoke to !!! yes, life is unfair, no i had nothing do with the water ingress.....i suspect that this has manifested itself probably even at manufacturing point because really, for the final time, i have not used this unit outside, or in cold conditions, or even out of the leather case................i don't even use it as a phone !!! (I have the Jam for that and please let's not start a thread about me being greedy, you all know what it's like to have gadgetitus !!) i have placed an order on expansys for an unlocked QTEK 9090 and once the contract is up, i shall move my 'spare' gprs sim account away from O2 and onto another provider..........if anyone wants my XDA2s for case spare, screen spare, or even accessories spare, make me a little helping offer and i am sure i can facilitate !!! so..........I hope i am still welcome in the forums wearing a QTEK jacket instead !!! regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob.P Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 One thing to bear in mind is that even though someone said it's not in O2's interest to lie, it would be in an individual's interest to lie to you if they had made a cock-up and wanted to cover it up (to play even more devils' advocate). Sometimes things happen that shaft people and all they are is a victim of circumstance. A HTC Engineer could have been looking at your board and spilt something on it or they didn't have a clue what was wrong with yours and are now worried they have not ironed out all the gremlins in their design so are dimissing it, is there any proof that the picture taken was of your phone. When you are victim of circumstance carry on fighting if you know that you are in the right, helps to keep the sanity if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boyo69 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 One thing to bear in mind is that even though someone said it's not in O2's interest to lie, it would be in an individual's interest to lie to you if they had made a cock-up and wanted to cover it up (to play even more devils' advocate). Sometimes things happen that shaft people and all they are is a victim of circumstance. A HTC Engineer could have been looking at your board and spilt something on it or they didn't have a clue what was wrong with yours and are now worried they have not ironed out all the gremlins in their design so are dimissing it, is there any proof that the picture taken was of your phone. When you are victim of circumstance carry on fighting if you know that you are in the right, helps to keep the sanity if nothing else. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> thanks, i did actually ask for proof that what they were showing me was my board, all the photocopy showed was my 'alleged' board, with a sticker above with my name an IMEI number on...........not exactly proof, but more a case i suspect that i need to prove that it's NOT my board rather than them having to prove it is........ as indicated in the last post, i have defected and purchased an OEM unlocked unit............i have been really pleased with the support shown in this forum and i guess this is testament to why we all join these groups........but i am drawing a line under the whole sorry affair and moving on.......... I won't pay O2 for another unit (even though it is cheaper than the unlocked unit i am buying), i won't pay them money to terminate my contract (I'll use the sim in the unlocked unit until the contract is up) i just think that they need to consider the skill set, sensitivity, common sense and general approach of their customer service and sometimes, making a gesture actually gets more business via word of mouth ........ imagine the GOOD it would have done them if i was posting here that they had helped me out of a fix even thought they didn't have to.............hopefully someone from O2 reads this post and bears it in mind............ thanks all, i shall now go back to posting and replying to proper stuff !!!! @chaser81......Jam rules, even with beer, just keep the glass on the other side of the table ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaser81 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 @boyo The Jam does indeed rock! I was a little worried when I spilt beer on it, I had a bit of a mental actually, but luckily it actually appears to be still working alright regardless (I must have dried it off quick enough). The volume slider was a little sticky for a few weeks, but even that now seems to be okay. I am beyond reasonably careful with it now, I think I look after it better than my girlfriend!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 And what exactly are trading standards going to do about it? We are not talking about a warranty fault with the handset, we are talking about ACCIDENTAL DAMAGE. I guarantee it WONT be different next time he talks to O2, they have the law on their side with this one! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You fool! You just made him buy a new phone, and you knew nothing about what you are talking about. Bravo! God bless the Internet! The original poster states the THE DAMAGE WAS NOT HIS FAULT, which is the dispute here. Trading standards can make a case based on that and 9 times out of 10 they will get a result, or at least 50% of the cost of repair. I personally got 50% of the repair of a three year old television, no extended warranty etc. Sort of hiring a lawyer or getting a spot on BBC Watchdog, this is your best bet. But no. Now he's bought a new one. Boyo69, if you weren't going to listen to the advice you were given, why the hell did you start a topic? Trading standards would have had it sorted for you and save you a few hundred pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mupwangle Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Back in the days of Cellnet (for those of you under 25 that used to be o2!) I had a panasonic G400 that had a shattered screen. It was in my pocket and I hadn't bumped into anything but I was wandering around for a while and the temperature was -5 and walked into my friends house for a while and back into the cold and the screen shattered. They didn't believe me that I hadn't damaged and claimed that it couldn't have been a fault. I sent it back and within about a week I got two packages. One was a letter saying much the same and that I could forget a replacement along with the duff phone. The second was a replacement phone with a letter apologising for any onconvenience. About 3 years later my mother got a letter for me (I'd moved out) asking for the phone back. What an organisation. I gave o2 another chance a couple of years back and found them, if anything, even worse. The problem I have with o2 and voda (other than with voda my wife gets voicemail up to 48 hours after I've left it which has left me in trouble a couple of times) is that the networks are divorced from the retailers. I had serious network issues with o2 and got bounced between the two repeatedly until I said sod it and went back to orange. >>THIS IS WHY EVERY MOBILE RETAILER SELLS MOBILE INSURANCE. No it isn't. Every mobile retailer sells insurance because it makes money. The average profit margin for product insurance is around 50% which is double consumables and about 10x higher than the product. That's why the salespeople are paid on it. It is far too expensive and usually is not worth it - especially since with contract mobile phones the longest you need wait before getting a free new one is 11 months and most people can get by with a cheap one that is less that the excess. And your home insurance usually does cover it with just as much excess. Personally I was gutted when orange stopped providing free insurance. :-( If the damage was caused by condensation or the like then it should be covered by warranty. If liquid ingress is caused by immersion or carelessness then fair enough but if the unit has been cared for and condensation has occurred then there is either a fault with that particular unit or there is a design flaw which allows condensation to form. If this is the case then there is a case for trading standards as the unit must be "fit for purpose" in that it must not suffer from environmental changes causing condensation. >>O2 have nothing to gain by lying to you about the condition of your phone and everything to lose because you will likely leave their network at the end of your contract and they wont get your revenue. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. I would be extremely surprised if anyone dealing with this is bothered (or has even considered) that you might leave the network. I have had various fights over the years over pedantry - changes to my contract or upgrades that would have (literally) cost them pennies and have told them I was leaving the network and until my recent upgrade to the c500 nobody has cared. It's the thing about mobile phone companies that has always puzzled me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaser81 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 You fool! You just made him buy a new phone, and you knew nothing about what you are talking about. Bravo! God bless the Internet! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is absolutely no need for that, I was polite in expressing my views in my post and I would expect the same back. The guy who posted below you made his (very good and informative) points without resorting to rudeness and insults. If you cant do the same then dont post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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