47 replies to this topic

[jonhitch]

DarkEmerald, on Dec 25 2005, 04:56, said:

This forum has already proven itself to me once with excellent advice about ActiveSync, and now here. I managed to drain off my Qtek Wizard's brand-new battery unexpectedly and had this same fairly horrifying experience.

I dared the bare-wire jump-start and it worked like magic. But first I had to go hunting for a little tech info about USB cables. Thought others might find
this article of value. It illustrates exactly what you'll find inside a USB cable and gave me the nerve to apply those bare wires to the + and - terminals of my rather expensive little battery.

Wizard is charging now. Thanks, jonhitch!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Glad to be of help DarkEmerald - like me you will probably never let it run down again. I'm keeping hold of my stripped down charger cable just in case though!

As for doing some full charge and discharge cycles I usually wait until I get my first warning message before charging (around 20%). If I had a new battery should I actually run it till it turns itself off - I was under the impression that newer batteries didn't have those problems anymore!

Happy New Year O:)

[Emad]

My battery ran to zero when abroad which was annoying.

Didn't take charge with a usb cable.

Came back, didn't take charge with a motorola usb charger (red led).

Did take charge with the ac adaptor provided with it. Weird.

Have ordered a new battery from ebay just in case of future run downs - about £14 or so.

[NightFox]

majorjam, on Dec 21 2005, 09:33, said:

This is a common problem, with any form of smart charging if a cell falls below nominal voltage it will not charge, you should take battery out of phone for couple of hours (still very small drain on battery whilst in phone) a good battery will recover- then insert back into phone and charge

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I used to have a Creative Zen MP3 player (still have it actually) - the battery charge wasn't lasting to good, so I followed the instructions on their web site for "reconditioning" the battery - run it COMPLETELY down and then recharge it.  Trouble was, once it was completely flat it wouldn't recharge for the same reasons as everyone's talking about here - sealed unit as well so no way of removing the battery!  D'oh!

[m1.carson]

This sometimes works with old laptop batteries that won't charge [li-ion], take them out and warm them gently, airing cupboard/ cool radiator, you have to give them long enough to warm right through, then try a charge.

My granny taught me that one, it can work.

[jonhitch]

Interesting - thanks m1.carson - worth bearing in mind!

[majorjam]

lithium ion batteries do not have 'memory effect' as ni-cad batteries but they are very sensitive to temperature, low temperature such as 0 degrees will kill the battery (common in laptops left in car overnight) :roll:

[Metoo]

majorjam, on Jan 11 2006, 12:54, said:

lithium ion batteries do not have 'memory effect' as ni-cad batteries but they are very sensitive to temperature, low temperature such as 0 degrees will kill the battery (common in laptops left in car overnight) :roll:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As always is the case on fourms like these, generalisations based on part knowledge can lead to misleading statements and misconceptions. Lithium-ion batteries are often rated to work down to -20 deg C. Lithium-ion Polymer, on the other hand, are only rated down to 0 deg C. The only way to be sure is to check the manufacturer's spec of your battery!

[Swampie]

Metoo, on Dec 16 2005, 19:34, said:

You need to check your facts. As awarner says, they are NOT designed to run flat, in fact the internal structure is permanently damaged if they fall below approx. 2.5V per cell.  Your analogy is utter rubbish too - you yourself admit that a kettle needs a "small amount of water", i.e. a minimum charge. What happens if you turn the kettle on with absolutely no water?

The batteries used in PDAs and mobile phones have internal controllers which temporarily disconnect the battery when it gets close to the low voltage limit to prevent further discharge. That's why it may become unresponsive to normal charging. If the cell voltage falls below approx 1.5V the controller considers it faulty and permanently disables the battery. This is done for consumer safety - as Lithium can be highly explosive if mistreated (e.g. by trying to charge a faulty cell).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, the internal controllers are there to stop a discharge deep enough to damage the cells - basically the battery runs goes 'flat' before it is actually empty, to proected the cells.  However it goes 'flat' and the then won't take a chrage, then either the battery is damaged or the internal controller circuit is badly designed.

I have plenty of lithium-ion batteries used in a number of different devices (PDAs, phones, laptops etc) and a full discharge (ie. a discharge to where the device will not power on again - not necessarily completely emptying the battery) does nothing noticable to the battery, and will always charge properly again.  This is perfectly normal use for such batteries.

If the device will not charge after running the battery down through normal use, then there is a fault or possibly a design problem.  The internal controllers are there to stop such things happening - both for safety, and for reliability of the battery.

Edited by Swampie, 12 January 2006 - 11:40 AM.

[ickleruth]

majorjam, on Dec 21 2005, 09:33, said:

This is a common problem, with any form of smart charging if a cell falls below nominal voltage it will not charge, you should take battery out of phone for couple of hours (still very small drain on battery whilst in phone) a good battery will recover- then insert back into phone and charge

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just want to thank majorjam for their post. My Vario wouldn't charge at all, even with the ac charger. I left the battery out of the phone overnight, and it charged fine the next morning. Which is probably just as well as I don't think I trust myself to strip a usb cable!

[Vjhillsr]

[quote name='jonhitch' date='Dec 14 2005, 11:04']
I would have agreed with you completely if it wasn't for my experience at the weekend. I tried charging it with the mains charger and a number of usb sync cables but with no joy!

It [u]only[/u] charged after I had taken the battery out and charged directly using the bare cables! Once it had enough charge in it the sync cable and mains charger were both able to top it up and it has been fine charging since (I just don't let it run down quite so much!).

Can you provide specifics? I need to do the same thing. Looking for what wire you put on which contacts.  Thnank you for the information.

I know I was not crazy when my battery died.

[zeflar]

Just to let everyone know that i had the same problem over the weekend - i left the battery out for a couple of hours and put it back in my phone but stupidly tried to switch it on, it started to boot, then went off and couldnt charge again.

Im currently hotwiring the battery - thanks Jonhitch

[chris1price]

zeflar, on Feb 6 2006, 11:29, said:

Just to let everyone know that i had the same problem over the weekend - i left the battery out for a couple of hours and put it back in my phone but stupidly tried to switch it on, it started to boot, then went off and couldnt charge again.

Im currently hotwiring the battery - thanks Jonhitch

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi all, ive had similar problems, when flat, my Vario will not charge from a USB port on any computer, car adaptor or even USB cable on a mains adaptor. However, the original mains cable still charges it fine.

[jonhitch]

Hope you don't mind but I'm bumping this up to the top to help out Michael. It seems like there are a number of us who've had the same problem!

[spurensucher]

thanks for this thread! I was really surprised. However, it helped that I was not allone and for me too it helped to charge after waiting for some time and using the original charger (which had slightly higher output power than my travel charger which I normally used!).

Thanks again

[YoungHog]

majorjam, on Dec 21 2005, 03:33, said:

This is a common problem, with any form of smart charging if a cell falls below nominal voltage it will not charge, you should take battery out of phone for couple of hours (still very small drain on battery whilst in phone) a good battery will recover- then insert back into phone and charge

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep.. I'm a witness.. As i'm a victim as we speak of the battery drained and will not power on.

I actually got my unit from UK shipped to the states.. So I've had the wrong mains plug and have been charging my unit via the usb cable.

Well a friend of mine gave me his blackberry cable i.e. usb and I was skepitcal at first because the unit seemed hot.. so i only used it once a few weeks back and have since just used my usb cable.

however I got a main off of the ebay yesterday via the mail.. I went out to play poker and after all my usage and so forth the battery was draining.. Most notably.. getting hot as hell. i.e. the back was warm.. when its normally cool to touch..

so i checked and I had the notification of battery loss etc.. I just cut it off as no need to call the wife etc..  However I got home.. I plugged in my new usb main from and the light did not come on at first.. however I did have enough to power the unit on which i did.. and it said charging.. So i just cut it off.. Noticed the charge light was off, thought nothing of it and went to bed..

This morning.. can't do anything.. So the battery is out and is being used as a paper weight.. for an hour.. So we shall see..

good thread.

YOUNGHOG

Edited by YoungHog, 16 March 2006 - 04:21 PM.

[YoungHog]

jonhitch, on Mar 14 2006, 07:38, said:

Hope you don't mind but I'm bumping this up to the top to help out Michael. It seems like there are a number of us who've had the same problem!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YEP..

Actually gave in went to the T-MOBILE store.. The guy used the original charger (which I didn't have) and it worked like a champ.

ODD thing is that the USB charger.. 1 Seperate non-original charger.. 2 new car chargers would not pop a charge to this thing but the original one turned that charge orange light on as well as the unit.

so $19.95 later and 8 hours of not using the unit.. I'm charging.. So what have i learned.. If the battery is totally drained.. ONLY the original charger will pop it back to life.

YoungHog

[jonhitch]

I assume by original charger you mean 'mains charger'? thanks for sharing that - much appreciated!

[YoungHog]

jonhitch, on Mar 17 2006, 10:41, said:

I assume by original charger you mean 'mains charger'? thanks for sharing that - much appreciated!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes..

Mains..

I have a blackberry usb charger.. given to me by a friend.
2 ic-chip wall chargers
2 battery chargers
1 Original Wall Charger

and now 1 original Main AC charger.. And after full drain the only one to pop up the charge light and give activity to my unit was the newly purchased Manufactur Wall Charger.

I got my unit from UK and it has the wrong US plug.. So thus my drive to the T-MOBILE store.

Once the initial charge i.e. life to the unit via the charge light.. I was able to use
any of the other charging modules..

Just an FYI..  

YoungHog

[Metoo]

The answer's quite simple. The mains charger is rated to give 2 Amps at 5 V. Most generic USB chargers and PC USB ports only give 0.5 Amp - if you are lucky (which is within the USB spec). So there simply isn't enough current to start off a full charge. Worse still, drawing too much current from a  cheap adapter could cause the regulator it to overheat and fail, and stuff 12V into your precious phone. I doubt if any of them have over voltage protection.
It's silly to spend $1000  on a phone, then try and save a $10 by using a cheap / borrowed charger. Even more so to continue to try and use it even though it's obvious it doesn't work. Just because the plug fits doesn't mean it's up to the job. Don't risk it. Use something that is specified properly for your device. If you want something more flexible than the manufacturer offerings, Boxwave have a range of high curent chargers (>1A)  for this purpose.

Edited by Metoo, 18 March 2006 - 06:05 PM.

[cortez]

YoungHog, on Mar 16 2006, 16:43, said:

YEP..

Actually gave in went to the T-MOBILE store.. The guy used the original charger (which I didn't have) and it worked like a champ.

ODD thing is that the USB charger.. 1 Seperate non-original charger.. 2 new car chargers would not pop a charge to this thing but the original one turned that charge orange light on as well as the unit.

so $19.95 later and 8 hours of not using the unit.. I'm charging.. So what have i learned.. If the battery is totally drained.. ONLY the original charger will pop it back to life.

YoungHog

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i'm in the same situation now...i turned my phone off for 2 days (or at least i thought i turned it off) and it wouldn't power up today. left the battery out of the phone for 4 hrs, then tried it again and it made it to the Windows splash screen.  guess i'll be headed to a T-Mobile (US) store tomorrow...