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#21
shuurajou

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Hi all,

I'm (for my sins) employed by Orange UK in the Business Solutions Team. I'll try to answer any questions you may have about Orange, what is going on, and what is coming up.


Hey AzH you in BCS Tech?

And off the record I do recall that Orange will be doing a Pay Monthly refresh, just as they did a Pay As You Go Refresh recently.

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#22
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Hey AzH you in BCS Tech?

And off the record I do recall that Orange will be doing a Pay Monthly refresh, just as they did a Pay As You Go Refresh recently.

Hint: it will all be animal themed!

(also, anyone want any talkplans with texts included? hold onto your hats!)

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#23
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Heres a couple for the orange people (or anyone else)...

1) Just to repeat what others have said - I'm a customer of approx 6 years, right from PAYG to contract when the first SPV came out. Orange as a network seems pretty good, good quality/coverage etc, but WHY NO ULIMITED GPRS FOR CONTRACTS. It's so frustrating!

2) Does anyone know how the trials work? I did a fairly high profile trial with a free 3G card (thanks orange) and also the video trials. Then nothing since, despite completing all the trail surveys,and making sure I gave lots of feedback.

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#24
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One can hope.
Even on Liberate (staff talkplan) we're charged a fortune after the free 4MB we're given.. considering Orange's lead handsets are supposed to be the SPV line, they're not doing much to subsidise the data charges at the moment.. so a refresh in that dept would be greatly welcomed.

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#25
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I don't mean to take this out on you personally, but maybe you could pass my comments on to some senior person in Orange to help them understand some major things about they way they work and how to keep customers!

A little background, before I left Orange last August I had been a customer with them for 7 years, for a couple of years I was running 2 phones with them too (Seperate accounts) spending a fair amount of money every month.

So, to my list of whats not right with Orange -

Orange Care
- I had this as part of my original contract, I upgraded my phone each year and renewed my contract, then out of the blue, Orange took this away from me - No explanation, just being told I needed to pay ?5 per month for Orange Care.

Faulty Handsets - I had a Samsung E800 which after 7 months developed 2 lines of dead pixels, so I phoned customer services and was told there was indeed a fault with the handset, but they weren't going to deal with it because it was over 6 months old and Orange's policy is that after 6 months I had to send it back to the manufacturer. I explained to them about the sale and supply of goods act and how it stated that Samsung gave a 1 year warranty but as Orange sold it to me they were legally obliged to honour that warranty - to which I was told "We are Orange and we don't do anything illegal" and that I was wrong. After several phone calls I ended up writing a letter, only to have it ignored, so the only thing I could do was to buy Orange Care (Going back to the previous point!) and have them swap it out for Free. The only upside of this was by this time (After many phone calls, non returned letters etc) it was month 11 of my contract (yes it took 4 months to sort out!!) - Now you don't get any prizes for guessing the next bit!

A new handset was sent out, I inserted the sim card, rang up Orange and cancelled my contract - No fight from them, they just let me go - 7 Years of being a customer forgotten.

Upgrade Rules
- So I had another contract running at the same time, and it was month 11 of the contract, I look on the website and see a good deal, I read the small print and find the following -

Existing Customers can upgrade to a new 18 month contract with a new handset and double talk and double minutes for the first 6 months provided they meet the following criteria

- In month 10 - 12 of 12 month contract
- On one of the following talk plans, X,Y,Z etc

Well I checked and I was in month 11 and had a qualifying talk plan, so I ring them up and was told "No" I can't upgrade to the 18 month contract with a new handset as I wasn't at the end of my 12 months, I explained the small print and was told that I could upgrade my contract to an 18 month contract without the handset and without the double talk/text.

So yes, I cancelled my contract and when asked why I gave the upgrade reason, they noted it and that was it.


So all in all, a long time ago Orange was great with excellent customer service and some really good deals - Now they seem to have lost touch with the market and don't seem to care about existing customers. Oh well Orange, you lost my business which I gave to Vodafone, who have been great. Nor do I recommend Orange anymore.

Sorry for the long rant!

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#26
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*Orange Care - I had this as part of my original contract...

Indeed I can understand why you are annoyed here, and legally its a minefield to say where you are and aren't covered.
As the original contract expired after the first 12 months, there is nothing in there to say that your free insurance should have carried on for more than a year. Unfortunate I know, but in most cases free care is promotional (such as Free Small Business Care, currently available to new SMB connections and only valid for 12 months).
Did you attempt to fight this when you renewed your contract? In most cases (especially back then) they would have honoured the original contract and given you free care indefinately.

*Faulty Handsets - I had a Samsung E800 which after 7 months developed 2 lines of dead pixels...

I get this sort of situation frequently every week.
Unfortunately for us as consumers, the warranty of mobiles only covers the effective repair, or failing that, the subsequent replacement of the handset by the manufacturer. In Orange Retail, we're not responsible for replacing the handset once it is past its initial 28 day period. Within that period, should a handset develop a fault, we will happily replace it with a brand new box after we have aquired a fault-code from CS.
There is no system in place for us to be able to replace a handset outside of that period as the warranty then takes over.
As much as I hate saying this, your beef is unfortunately with Samsung as they are responsible for the handset after 1 month (Afterall, they produced the handset, we merely sold it to you and honoured the 28 day period for initial faults).
Orange Retail will gladly send your phone off to TRS given you can produce an original proof of purchase, and even pay the postage and processing fee for you - but there simply isnt a system or method for us to replace handsets there and then, and legally we're not required to do so.

Upgrade Rules - So I had another contract running at the same time...

I'll drop my opinion on this first. Personally I hate the new upgrade 'loyalty' scheme. Orange have effectively forced us Phone Trainers to sell 18 months contracts to customers, whether they like it or not. Currently, we earn ~?75 Customer Contribution (of which we get a percentage (from 1-10%), depending on how well our store has perfomed in the Mystery Shop) for an 18 month upgrade. Compared to a fixed ?25 CC for a 12 month upgrade.
Now this is unfair mainly because we have a number of customers who decide to upgrade well before their 12 month upgrade date and pay the upgrade fee (minimum of ?50, depending on last 3 month's billspend) - they cannot then be processed for an 18 month upgrade, thus cutting off our CC automatically.
Why should we be penalised for (sometimes) helping to convince a customer to upgrade early? Its crap, unfortunately, and we don't like it as much as the consumer does.

Anyway back to your point. The 18 month promotion is supposed to be applicable to customers in month 10-12 of their contract. In most cases this isn't true. 90% of the time a customer will have to pay a fee to upgrade early, and even then the system will decide that they cannot enter into the 18 month promotion (which is now 10% off line rental for 18 months, or free weekend calls for 6 months.)
Again, its complete rubbish. I also don't agree with customers being forced into 18 month contracts, but at least you're being offered a promotion in return, whereas most network's new connections are 18 month as standard, with a few not offering any brilliant deals. (I may be wrong).


As much as I hate losing a customer, Orange isn't affected by losing one or two customers from each store's area.. they only see the 'bigger picture' unfortunately :)


(btw, most of my post may sound like tripe as i've just woken up, heh)

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#27
Giffer2

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*Faulty Handsets - I had a Samsung E800 which after 7 months developed 2 lines of dead pixels...

I get this sort of situation frequently every week.
Unfortunately for us as consumers, the warranty of mobiles only covers the effective repair, or failing that, the subsequent replacement of the handset by the manufacturer. In Orange Retail, we're not responsible for replacing the handset once it is past its initial 28 day period. Within that period, should a handset develop a fault, we will happily replace it with a brand new box after we have aquired a fault-code from CS.
There is no system in place for us to be able to replace a handset outside of that period as the warranty then takes over.
As much as I hate saying this, your beef is unfortunately with Samsung as they are responsible for the handset after 1 month (Afterall, they produced the handset, we merely sold it to you and honoured the 28 day period for initial faults).
Orange Retail will gladly send your phone off to TRS given you can produce an original proof of purchase, and even pay the postage and processing fee for you - but there simply isnt a system or method for us to replace handsets there and then, and legally we're not required to do so.


I wasn't too clear about this, I purchased the phone online from Orange so have never really had a problem with the shops (Other than the fact that there always seems to be a huge queue when you are in a rush!!).

Unfortunately, it seems that Orange's training (or maybe their policy) is telling people that after the 1 month/28 days time period that it's my problem and that I should take it up with the manufacturer of the phone, however this isn't what the sale and supply of goods act states. (I'm not having a go at you, this is probably what you've been told/trained in by Orange).

It's a simple case (This is based on the revisied S&S act which changed the handling of faulty products purchased after a certain date).

If a product comes with a manufacturers warranty, then the seller is legally obliged to honour that warranty, in the first 6 months it is up to the seller to prove the fault exists, after that it's up to the owner to prove the fault exists. So basically, with me finding a fault in month 7 it would be my responsibility to prove the fault exists, which I did on 2 ways

1. I took the phone to an independent mobile phone specialist who examined the phone and wrote a fault report.
2. I phoned Orange customer services who did a remote test and told me there was a fault.

So I was able to prove that there was a fault, which meant the Orange was legallay obligied to fix or replace the faulty equipment - At no point do I as the customer need to speak to Samsung.

The below part of the Governments guide to traders on the S&S act -

12) What about manufacturers' guarantees?

The important points to remember are:

(a) the rights conferred on the customer by law are against the person who supplied him with the goods and not against the manufacturer (unless he is also the supplier); and
(:) in a consumer sale, nothing in a manufacturer's guarantee or warranty can take away any of the consumer's rights

10) Can I require a customer to give up these rights?

No, not when the customer 'deals as a consumer'. Indeed, if you attempt to mislead consumers into thinking that they do not have these rights, you may be committing a criminal offence.


The below is from the BBC's Watchdog site

GUARANTEES
The shop may say you have to claim a refund from the manufacturer, or claim under the manufacturer's guarantee. This is not true. Shoppers' rights under the Sale of Goods Act are against the retailer, not the manufacturer. Guarantees simply give additional rights which shoppers can choose to use.


A little bit of research goes a long way, however my beef is with Orange telling it's staff this isn't the case.

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#28
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There is no system in place for us to be able to replace the equipment under the warranty. Orange have made it so that the only solutions are to either
1) send the handset off to TRS for repair or
2) offer emergency care

Its not that we're not aware of consumer law, its just that there's no way for us to act in a manner that is in line with these guidelines, due to the processes set in place by Orange.

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#29
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Hi AzH, heres my question. I?ve been an Orange PAYG user for several years now, and my question relates to roaming outside the UK. I?ve used my phone in many countries without much problems, however when I go to visit family in Moscow, Russia, I always get a Service denied message on my SPV C500 phone, on whatever network I try to connect to.
The Orange web-site states you have an agreement with ?MegaPhone? in this country, but I?m telling you, it don?t work. I?ve tried two Orange SIMMs and two Phones.. No joy! I?ve informed Orange Customer services on several occasions of this fact, and no one at Orange as given me a proper explanation. Your web-site needs correcting, as the information for Russia is misleading. I would like to point out that O2 SIMMs works fine out there, if it helps any Anglo-Ruskis out there who need to phone home.

So, when will Orange work in the worlds largest country? Can you help in the matter?

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#30
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There is no system in place for us to be able to replace the equipment under the warranty. Orange have made it so that the only solutions are to either
1) send the handset off to TRS for repair or
2) offer emergency care

Its not that we're not aware of consumer law, its just that there's no way for us to act in a manner that is in line with these guidelines, due to the processes set in place by Orange.


I see, so it's not Orange is choosing to ignore the law, it's just choosing not to actually have a system in place to carry it out.

My comments aren't based at you personally, so please don't take offence - It just seems Orange is playing the system to their advantage, I wonder how many people have given up and gone to the manufacturer? It's the details like this which is why Orange will continue to lose existing customers.

One question I did ask once, was why do I get a better deal as a new customer but can't can't have the same deal as an existing customer, my point was I was setup in the system, they knew my account activity and in terms of man hours spent in admin and processing this would have been a minimum - The person whom I asked was stumped and agreed with me that it didn't make any sense.

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#31
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That is soooooooooo true chucky.egg. The key to it IS also keeping your current customer base!!

They had the adverts on the telly with the wise man telling the big execs at Orange how to keep the customers happy, obviously the real directors are as brain dead as the actor portrayed because they do not practice what they preach.


JB


i work for a fairly big player on the high street phone sector and i quite frequently get PAC codes for customers as part of the service my shop offers. when we talk to o2 we get just stupid deals from them, 300x-net mins and 5oo texts for ?20 for a YEAR with a free D600!!!!!
talk to orange and its the utter opposite, my wife was given her PAC code straight away no effort to keep her at all and she spends ?40 every month!



crazy business sense!

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#32
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One question I did ask once, was why do I get a better deal as a new customer but can't can't have the same deal as an existing customer, my point was I was setup in the system, they knew my account activity and in terms of man hours spent in admin and processing this would have been a minimum - The person whom I asked was stumped and agreed with me that it didn't make any sense.

I also ponder this myself.

Orange actively encourages us to 'churn' customers rather than upgrade them, you simply have to look at the handset costs and 'Customer Contribution' they pay to phone trainers to see that.
e.g. They give us ?75 CC to upgrade a customer to 18 month 'loyalty' connection, ?25 for a 12 month standard upgrade, and a whopping ?130 for a new connection. (we only personally get 1-10% of this figure)

another example,
a customer who has been on YP120 for the past 12 months has religiously stuck to his ?25 billspend. His UIC (Upgrade Investment Class) will come out at Band 2. A 6230i (currently) will cost him ?49.99 to upgrade to.
He's not happy.. how can he get the handset for free? Easy: churn him onto a new number, where he will get the 6230i for free and get the YP120 for ?12.50 for 6 months...

How does this make financial sense, I'll never know.

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#33
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Hello AzH

I recently took out the two sim offer from Orange, and had a orange SPV M500, and since my phone being activated, I am unable find out my usage minutes, even my first bill came in with 80% of the page blank.......is Orange going through a CRISIS? every time I call 150, the voice message says "this service is currently unavailable, please try later...."


Also, I get a sharpe noise during a call, I have contacted customer help several times but still am non the wiser.

Are you able to help?

Cheers :)


Dilip

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#34
sporkguy

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Hello AzH

I recently took out the two sim offer from Orange, and had a orange SPV M500, and since my phone being activated, I am unable find out my usage minutes, even my first bill came in with 80% of the page blank.......is Orange going through a CRISIS? every time I call 150, the voice message says "this service is currently unavailable, please try later...."
Also, I get a sharpe noise during a call, I have contacted customer help several times but still am non the wiser.

Are you able to help?

Cheers :)
Dilip

Since the end of last month we've been having 'issues' with billing. They're being processed late, and a fair majority of customers are also experiencing problems with 150 option 1.
According to the intranet announcement, they're "working on it".

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#35
tsutton

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Sorry, I was off today. I've been hit by 'flu (really nice). I'll check this out on Monday but I couldn't find anything on the Orange website.


Yeah I'm annoying... but any updates? :)

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#36
mobdna

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The bundled minutes option on 150 will not be available till after 27th Feb apparently! And even if you get through to a CSR to ask your minutes they can't see either, we use the same system. Sorry

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#37
mobdna

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Only if you check ya call timers built in to tha phone, i know slack excuse!

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#38
pcdoc

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Call me a cynic, but it looks very much to like FT are trying to run orange into the ground. I joined Orange when they were 6 months old and stayed with them untill 2003, left for 12 months and went back in sept-oct 2004 but the way they treat customers now I will be getting my pac code in a weeks time and thats me done with orange. I am so disgisted with them I will even move my wifes Pay as you go away from orange.

I really wouldn't be suprised seeing a news report that orange has called in the receivers :)

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#39
mobdna

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Call me a cynic, but it looks very much to like FT are trying to run orange into the ground. I joined Orange when they were 6 months old and stayed with them untill 2003, left for 12 months and went back in sept-oct 2004 but the way they treat customers now I will be getting my pac code in a weeks time and thats me done with orange. I am so disgisted with them I will even move my wifes Pay as you go away from orange.

I really wouldn't be suprised seeing a news report that orange has called in the receivers :)



I very much doubt they are calling in any receivers any time soon, Orange UK are the biggest moneymaker for FT whatever way you look at it! I just wish they would sell Orange UK to us!

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#40
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I very much doubt they are calling in any receivers any time soon, Orange UK are the biggest moneymaker for FT whatever way you look at it! I just wish they would sell Orange UK to us!



didnt mean immediate future, I was pointing out I wouldn't be suprised if I saw it reported at anytime in the future.

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