Can't get 3G - Wont Let Me Return Phone

[Guest amo]

Ok, so I brought an MDA Pro and basically had the intention of using it just for 3G access for data. I explained this to the sales assistant and all seemed fine.

I took the handset home and begun using it the next day after a good charge. First problem, I can't get 3G coverage...only GRPS over 2G.

So, I thought ok maybe its not activated on my account as a service so I wait a while for it to be activated as it sometimes takes up to 72 hours to provision properly. So, few days pass...still nothing.

So, I call T Mobile who inform me that there is no 3G coverage in my area at all and it isn't a fault in the phone. So, within my 7 day return period I return to the store to get a refund and cancel the contract.

At this point, i'm told that the email system used in stores isn't working so they will have to call me within a few days to let me know when its available and i'd have to return to store to do the refund. Apparently, they need to send an email to authorise the return before I can actually bring the phone back (therefore me having to make 2 trips - in this case more). I found this Very strange but agreed. I explained that by the time they get back to me i'd be out of the 7 day period but the advisor assured me this wouldn't be a problem.

A full week passes, and I haven't received a call!

So, I return to the store and surprise surprise the manager still isn't in the store to authorise the refund. Theres also no reason available for not getting back to me. So, they then tell me that the Assistant Manager is refusing to authorise the refund as TMobile are still providing me A service and there is therefore no grounds for a refund. The manager since also returned a call to state the same.

So, my understanding was that I had a 7 day return policy, AND more importantly that if at any point of the contract the providor is unable to satisfy their end of the deal (i.e. provide the service I want that they agreed to offer - i.e. 3G) that the contracts void and I can cancel.

The store is refusing to let me return the phone, and has turned their back on me. Can anyone (maybe an employee of the company) help me resolve this? I even phoned customer services who notepadded the account to say that as the coverage wasnt checked I have grounds to cancel but theyre ignoring that and are refusing to refund!

I'm at the end of my teather and really don't want to have to start writing letters to TMobile, contacting Trading Standards etc etc....So..help!...Please :)

[Guest tsutton]

Go back to the shop, but 10 mins before closing time.

Refuse to leave till they listen to you.

Worth trying? :)

[Guest sporkguy]

Go back to the shop, but 10 mins before closing time.

Refuse to leave till they listen to you.

Worth trying? :)

or better yet, go in when the shop is full of people on a saturday afternoon and raise your voice.. amo you used to work for OR mate - you know all the tricks in the book that punters use to get a refund :D

Just say you used to work for OR and now work for CPW and that you KNOW the rules - and that you were assured that you could do the 7 day return when you returned on the 7th day.

Heck, even put in a complaint against the store if you can.

[Guest Swampie]

Ok, so I brought an MDA Pro and basically had the intention of using it just for 3G access for data. I explained this to the sales assistant and all seemed fine.

I took the handset home and begun using it the next day after a good charge. First problem, I can't get 3G coverage...only GRPS over 2G.

So, I thought ok maybe its not activated on my account as a service so I wait a while for it to be activated as it sometimes takes up to 72 hours to provision properly. So, few days pass...still nothing.

.....

So, my understanding was that I had a 7 day return policy, AND more importantly that if at any point of the contract the providor is unable to satisfy their end of the deal (i.e. provide the service I want that they agreed to offer - i.e. 3G) that the contracts void and I can cancel.

Where did you buy the phone from? Internet/phone or a shop? You only get (AFAIK) 7 day cooling off if you purchase at a distance (ie. via internet/phone). This comes under the Distance Selling Regulations and gives you 7 days to *request* a return (technically in writing but some don't require it). The actual return doesn't have to be made within 7 days, just the (techincally written) request.

If you purchased in a shop, you don't get any cooling off period.

As for being able to cancel the contract if they are unable to satisfy their end of the deal - this is vaguely correct but may not help you in this situation.

As I undestand it, as long as you can get the services for which you're paying for, they're okay and you cannot cancel your contract. You're paying for X minutes per month and Y MB probably. The 3G service is a separate issue and not necessarily part of your contract. They provide 3G access for free, no addional charge over 2G. You can still use voice and data on 2G so they're providing the contracted service.

T-Mobile have a coverage checker on their website, this shows where you get 2G and 3G services. You could have checked this in advance. If their checker shows you should have 3G coverage, you might be in luck. Similarly, if you *explicitly stated* that you required 3G coverage *at home* when purchasing, again you might be in luck. However it's reasonable to assume that most people use 3G on the move, on the train etc - so just saying you wanted it for 3G data may not be sufficient to get it cancelled, as they'd argue you could get 3G access if you were in a local town or similar.

With regard to cancelling if they fail to meet their obligations, for regard to lack of 3G access but still providing 2G access, I'd expect the only time you'll get them to cancel the contract is if when you signed up they provided 3G access to an address but then, later on, removed it. This would be a reduction in service to your detriment and could be argued as a reason for cancellation. Not having it (3G) from the start at an address is unlikely to be a valid reason.

[Guest amo]

So basically, im going to be payin ?28 per month for 18 months for something that will stay in the box! Bloody great! Oh, not to mention the ?130 I paid for the device...

[Guest dr who]

Do CPW offer a 7 day cooling off period in store? I thought all contracts had a cooling off period regardless of where they were purchased? I too would be jumping up and down at this point Amo.

[Guest amo]

CPW do but not for TMobile, this is the reason that I specifically asked for TMobiles own 7 day policy who assured me that they allowed them!!!

[Guest Swampie]

So basically, im going to be payin ?28 per month for 18 months for something that will stay in the box! Bloody great! Oh, not to mention the ?130 I paid for the device...

Yes, if you refuse to use it with a 2G service, but that's your choice. You'll still get 3G when you're within a 3G cell, but it sounds like you just won't have it at home.

As I said, their network coverage checker is available online for you to check in advance if 3G coverage was essential to you.

I use GPRS over 2G on a HTC Wizard and it's useable - what sort of data transfers were you expecting to do with it?

[Guest amo]

Well its access to my network (remote desktop), access to ORB, video calling and email attachements I was after...this is beside the point, their not giving me the service I made clear I was signing up for!

[Guest dr who]

Well its access to my network (remote desktop), access to ORB, video calling and email attachements I was after...this is beside the point, their not giving me the service I made clear I was signing up for!

Is the shop in the city/region where you live? If so then maybe you could argue that reasonably they should have known there was no 3G coverage in that area and should have informed you when you bought a 3G device?

[Guest Swampie]

Well its access to my network (remote desktop), access to ORB, video calling and email attachements I was after...this is beside the point, their not giving me the service I made clear I was signing up for!

In an earlier post I said you might have a claim if you stated when you bought the phone that you required 3G access at a particular location/postcode. If you said this, and they proceeded with the order and later you found that in fact you didn't have 3G access that that location, then you should be able to get a refund (no idea how this works with contracts - but I assume it is the same) under the Sale of Goods act as the product is not fit for purpose (ie. your purpose which you made clear at time of purchase).

The Sale of Goods act protects consumers against dodgy sales people who, when explicitly asked about a feature etc, give incorrect assurances regarding the ability of a device. eg. You buy a DVD recorder and state you want it to support DVD+R, but when you get home you find it only supports DVD-R then that's a clear case of mis-selling and you're covered.

In this situation though, you need to make sure you stated you wanted 3G access at a particular address (which they can then check for you). If you just said "I want 3G so I can use remote desktop etc" then they've met your requirement as it's a 3G device and T-Mobile provide 3G access. If you failed to state where you wanted the 3G access, it is entirely reasonable to expect them not to just cancel the contract.

The Distance Selling Regulations give you very strong rights to reject a purchase within 7 days for any reason what so ever - hence why with phones/contracts etc, I would probably always go via mail order (but ideally from a retailer who has a physical store for backup) as just buying from a shop gives you only very basic protection, and nothing at all against you, the customer, making a mistake over which product to buy.

D

[Guest Swampie]

One additional thing. It seems that you've worked for Orange retail, and also now Carphone Warehouse retail. Surely someone with your experience would understand that 3G coverage is often patchy, especially just outside urban areas and if a customer explicitly required 3G coverage at a particular location, they should check first.

[Guest confucious]

My 2d's worth.

Amo - I'm suprised someone with your experience didn't at least check the online coverage checker before buying but what I would always advise is to get someone to try in the specific location you want to use it. The coverage checker showed 2G only where I live but I was pleasantly suprised to find I have good 3G coverage at home.

Unless you put it in writing or had witnesses you will have great difficulty proving that you told them you needed 3G in your house - so many factors affect coverage it canot be guaranteed anywhere, I'm sure the shop will just deny it and tough though it is, I think you are stuck with it.

For streaming at home though, you could try WiFi, just a thought.

A naming and shaming of the shop might be in order and you could try going in and making a nusance of yourself.

Good luck.

[Guest kam_]

I would probably start here:

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/goods-ser...le/fs_b01.shtml

Call them up and get the facts on the law. Until you do that you'll be sitting there convincing yourself that what people saying on the forum isn't true. They should be able to advise you on what your options are.

As sugested on their page, you may be able to claim from your credit card if you purchased by Credit Card.

Another thing to consider, if you wish to take it that far, is to use legal cover from your home contents insurance to handle the matter for you. They may issue preceedings against the store on your behalf. Usually for small matters (small for the store, big for you!) they capitulate when faced with legal action.

If you take this route, check it out throughouly - there should be a legal helpline number in your policy book. At the least they can offer you free legal advice over the phone.

MAKE SURE its included in your policy. If it isn't i advise ANYONE AND EVERYONE to get it - its only a few pounds and well worth it when things like this happen.

P.S. thats the new government consumer direct website which suplements trading standards by offering free adivce over the phone.. i'm not spamming!

[Guest kam_]

On a seperate note.. why don't you call T-Mobile and change the tariff to something else and give it to a friend or family member? Probably not ideal, but better than nothing?

I'm sure you could ebay the phone and get a majority of the money back too.