The cost of roaming with TM, a money-saving tip and other misc info

[Guest Christopher Woods]

So, as I'm going to the south of France over Easter for two weeks, I was on the phone to TM earlier enquiring about roaming charges. For someone (like me) who's on Flext 25 with Web 'n Walk, the charges are as follows:

To send OR receive a call: 55p/min

To send an SMS: 40p/message

To send an MMS: 20p/message (yes, I went ! too... Read on below for more)

Data usage is £7.50/Mb, so turn off your OTA Exchange Server synchronisation ;)

I asked how much of the 55p/min TM takes from the call charges, to which the CSR said (paraphrasing), "we don't really take anything from the 55p/min charge - that's all given to the roaming provider due to the reciprocal service agreements. TM doesn't really believe that charging for a service they are not providing is a very good thing to do, hence the lower charges."

By contrast, when I was in Germany on O2 it was about 65p/min to make a call, 45p/min to receive - and that was with their International Traveller discount applied. You can get a similar addon with TM, for £2.50 per calendar month, which lowers the charges for receiving calls to about 25p/min, but IIRC if you are the originator of a call it'll still cost you the same. Ring TM CS for more advice on that, because I'm sure it's dependent on your tariff.

You can also prepay for minutes or texts before you head abroad, which the CSR informed me would work out more cost effective than just PAYG roaming, but again I guess the cost-effectiveness of that depends on how much you'll be using your phone abroad.

Now, about MMSes being cheaper than SMSes... Apparently, this is due to MMS prices being dictated by an EU Directive which states that they can only cost xyz amount - which works out great for us consumers! I also asked about whether there'd be any data charges incurred if I sent an MMS - with or without a picture - and the CSR responded by saying that there wouldn't be given that the GPRS usage barely even registers in the grander scheme of things, and as there's a 32kb per message cap on the size if you attempt to send a picture larger than that you just get billed 20p per every 32kb of data used. So, for a great money-saving tip: send MMSes to people instead of SMSes, you can send a ridiculous amount of text - something like 1.5 A4 pages worth! - for 20p instead of 160 letter SMSes for 40p, and you won't (shouldn't!) get charged for data usage even if you're roaming.

AFAIK, there's no data charges for receiving either SMSes or MMSes, which would tally with past roaming experience.

As we began chatting at that point, I asked him a few more questions about 3G and suchlike - there's no operator in France which really provides a decent 3G service yet, however Orange France (formerly France Telecom) is rolling out 3G in metropolitan areas and eventually TM hopes to be able to provide 3G Europe-wide with its roaming carriers. Another EU Directive is also being issued around April which will be lowering the cost of calls again - to somewhere like 33p/min - and ALSO capping the per-megabyte charges for data usage, but the CSR said that nobody really knows what that's going to be set at yet because the EU hasn't issued any information about that. Expect lower prices, though, and a more standardised cost framework for charges. I did ask whether data usage would fall under inclusive usages which people like myself have on their accounts (Web 'n Walk etc), but he was a little vague about that - so I guess that data usage isn't going to fall under inclusive allowances any time soon.

TM also hopes to be able to offer a UK-wide 3G service within the next 12 months or so, with Hi-D (HSDPA and any other 3.5/4G services, I guess) becoming widespread within the next 12-18 months, according to what the CSR said. I commented that TM seemed to have their 3G service up and running a lot faster than any of the other operators, and the main reason for this is twofold:

• TM had based their takeup projections on the initial GPRS rollout, which started in London and then made its way throughout the country. The estimate for 3G handsets was that about 100,000 of them would be imported and retailed. However, 2.5 million 3G handsets were imported and sold, which surprised TM somewhat - and was a factor in them expediting their rollout of 3G networks in metropolitan areas.
  
• The way in which TM has been rolling out their 3G network differs from past rollouts - they gauged the much higher popularity of 3G usage and handsets (much faster than the GPRS takeup, which was a slow rollout and slow takeup) and subsequently decided to set up each rollout in each metropolitan area (Aberdeen, Edinburgh, London, Birmingham, Manchester etc) as a separate project - but each project communicated with all the others. So, if a problem developed in one of the rollouts, and it was determined to be a problem common to all of the individual rollouts, the problem could be solved and then the solution proactively applied to all the other projects. This results in a much more rapid rollout of TM's 3G networks, and is the other primary reason for why TM has beaten Vodafone and Orange thus far with their implementation and activation of 3G services across the UK.
  

I hope other people find this information useful and/or helpful - it's things I've always wondered about, and fortunately I got through to someone in customer services who obviously shares my interest! Obviously this information is stated as-is, I've not verified any of this by talking to TM's Press office (like they'd even reply!) but I trust what the bloke told me. And no, I don't work for TM, I'm just a very satisfied customer (and former frustrated customer of O2, the absolute bane of my life for the previous 12 months!)

[Guest Tony W]

Chris,

That is a great summary and thanks for the tip on MMSs when abroad. Let's hope the charges come down soon for data - my last bill from a trip overseas was a rather large one because of only a small use of data (or so I thought!).

tony

[Guest solarflare]

To send OR receive a call: 55p/min

To send an SMS: 40p/message

To send an MMS: 20p/message

But those charges don't come out of your flext allowance do they? You have to pay those charges in addition to your flext bill. Shame really, I'd glady pay over the odds if it came out of my allowance as I barely use all if it anyway.

Edited April 11, 2007 by solarflare

[Guest apcd2]

Just thought I'd add one thing to this. I'm also on a Flext tariff and in December went to New York. Beforehand I called customer services to check rates and was told that while calls and SMS's were charged extra all MMS's were taken out of my included allowance! While there I sent several picture messages and even sent some MMS messages without a picture to save me the cost of a SMS. When my next bill arrived sure enough I hadn't been charged for a single one! I'm not sure whether this was a temporary special offer or something specific to the States but it might be useful to know.

[Guest Christopher Woods]

Just thought I'd add one thing to this. I'm also on a Flext tariff and in December went to New York. Beforehand I called customer services to check rates and was told that while calls and SMS's were charged extra all MMS's were taken out of my included allowance! While there I sent several picture messages and even sent some MMS messages without a picture to save me the cost of a SMS. When my next bill arrived sure enough I hadn't been charged for a single one! I'm not sure whether this was a temporary special offer or something specific to the States but it might be useful to know.

After you mentioned that, I went and took another look at my bill for whilst I was roaming in France... And I wasn't billed for any MMSes I sent, either! So even though they cost 40p, they appear to have come out of my inclusive credit as opposed to on top of my £27.50 regular bill.

Ace, I must remember that!

[Guest madferret]

My wife, who's also on T-Mobile, had a scary experience when in Malaysia at the start of the year. When she arrived as well as the usual welcome text, there was one from the local operator (I forget who) offering a free local number for incoming calls. This had the +62 prefix so I made quite a few calls via 07744 on my mobile, and a low cost landline at the weekend.

When she got home her next bill was over £200! Turns out the 'free' part was the supply of the number. The incoming calls were charged at the normal incoming roaming rate. After taking this up with T-Mob they agreed that the initial text message was misleading, and agreed to go 50/50 on the roaming costs.

[Guest shadamehr]

Hi all.

For clarification of T-Mobile (and the other networks) new forthcoming roaming rates, see my thread here:

T-Mobile EU Roaming and MMS Rates

It also covers the situation concerning the 20p MMS messages that come out of people's Flext Bundles - this is entirely by design, and covered in the post. So a great way to keep in touch abroad for free so to speak.

Hope this helps add some clarification to a few of the points raised in this thread.

[Guest Blakey]

I wonder if you guys can help me then please? I have T-Mobile Flext Tarrif and Web n Walk. All works great in the UK and I have set up and can send MMS from the UK no problems. When in France (a few times this year) I have tried to send MMS - had no idea they were cheaper!) but I could never get them to go through. I always got delivery errors. When back in the UK I can happily resend them fine. I tried using 0044 on the front of the mobile number (with no leading 0) and also the standard UK mobile number and neither worked.

Any suggestions on where to start with what I am doing wrong?

Thanks

Blakey

Edited August 3, 2007 by Blakey

[Guest Confucious]

Did you try +44 rather than 0044?

[Guest Christopher Woods]

Did you try +44 rather than 0044?

Indeed, I'd suggest that also. Holding down the zero key *should* produce a + sign after a while, and that's actually how the T-Mobile network presents all mobile numbers to me whether I'm in the UK or not (whereas O2 seemed to present the numbers as either 07 or +447 depending on which carrier the call was originating from)... I just store all my numbers as +447 and I've never had a problem texting or MMSing from Europe.

Something to note - T-Mobile are, in line with the new EU policy, cutting their roaming call costs to something like 35p/min to make a call and 15p/min to receive... Though they're doing it on the 31st of August, at the END of the holiday season (jammy buggers!) Of course, this is still on top of any inclusive minutes, so unless you buy one of their roaming call bundles you'll get charged extra on top of your tariff. The latest email which confirms this information also mentions that whilst texts are 40p (bloody ripoff) MMSes are only 20p - AND they come out of your inclusive texting/MMSing allowances if you're on Flext or U-Fix, which is very handy.

For the life of me, I can't understand why 160 bytes of data should cost 40p on top of any inclusive minutes when 300kilobytes (~307,000 bytes!) costs 20p AND is inclusive in your texting allowance... That works out to £2.50 per kilobyte versus 0.0666p per kilobyte like-for-like costs - with each letter of a text message costing a quarter of a penny!!!! - pure madness. But oh well, as long as they keep *something* free I guess we can't complain too much!

[Guest Confucious]

Texts use the GSM network whereas MMSs use data so the pricing structure is completely diffferent. Why MMSs should be standard price and included when other data abroad is so expensive beats me.

Does it cost to receive SMS or MMS abroad? Appologies if it is mentioned above and I've missed it! The problem with MMS is a) not everyone can receive them and :P They cost peoplke a lot more than SMS to send so if they just reply to your message they will be sending an MMS not an SMS and could run up large bills themselves if they don't have lots of inclusive MMS.

I am, of course, nit picking asbeing able to send inclusive MMS is a great boon to me.

Now all we need is cheap data while abroad. Oh, and inclusive data, SMS and voice minutes - but I guess I'm just being gready now :)

[Guest shadamehr]

Texts use the GSM network whereas MMSs use data so the pricing structure is completely diffferent. Why MMSs should be standard price and included when other data abroad is so expensive beats me.

Does it cost to receive SMS or MMS abroad? Appologies if it is mentioned above and I've missed it! The problem with MMS is a) not everyone can receive them and :P They cost peoplke a lot more than SMS to send so if they just reply to your message they will be sending an MMS not an SMS and could run up large bills themselves if they don't have lots of inclusive MMS.

I am, of course, nit picking asbeing able to send inclusive MMS is a great boon to me.

Now all we need is cheap data while abroad. Oh, and inclusive data, SMS and voice minutes - but I guess I'm just being gready now :)

Hi Confucious.

Unlike Voice Calls, the cost of RECEIVING a TEXT or SMS whilst abroad in the EU is FREE, zilch, zero, nada.

So hope that helps.

Additionally, like i mentioned in my other thread - even my dear old mum, and my even (tighter) old father, now have handsets which whilst basic, poor screen etc, are nevertheless, fully capable of receiving an MMS - be it in picture form, or just a long textual MMS.

Only the die hard oldest handset users, still with a mono screen, can still not receive an MMS - you'd be amazed now just how FEW people can NOT receive an MMS nowadays - at least using my social circle as an example.

But I am sure you can think of at least one - we all just about know someone who can't.

In terms of them replying to your MMS by MMS in return however - well, not seeming uncaring, but that is an issue for them. The amount of times I have told my mum, or my mate Peter NOT to just click "Reply" when I send them a picture, for them to send a single word message "Nice" back via an expensive MMS, drives me mad.

They still don't get it.

So I know exactly what you mean, but that's simply due to stupidity on the part of the other party then.

*lol*

[Guest Confucious]

Hi Shadamehr, thanks for the info about incoming costs while abroad.

As for MMS, I agree that nearly all phones are capable of receiving them but sureley I can't be the only one who has just deleted all data connections on my daughter's phone as the simplest way to ensureno data charges are run up? She's 11 and has my old C55o but is on PAYG - texts at 3p I can afford but if she replies by MMS it's me that pays... I have put 2 lots of £10 on her phone since I gave it to her about a year ago. I could set up MMS for her but she might use it.....

My g/f was using an old siemens (A55?) which couldn't receive MMS so there are still some phones that can't, but she now has my Modaco C600 (it must be lurve...) so she's OK now.

MMS coming out of my bundle is still far better than any other option for me so I can't really complain, just as with everything, no one plan will suit everyone - until they introduce free data/voice/texts home and abroad - even then I'm sure someone will still find something to complain about :)

I must admit I am VERY happy with T-Moband as you might have noticed, I'm not easily pleased :P

[Guest Blakey]

Did you try +44 rather than 0044?

Cheers!! That makes sense to me. I've gone through and painstakingly changed all my telephone numbers of all my contacts to +44 on the front now. Am off to France at the end of the month so will send a few MMS then and see if it works!

Cheers

Blakey

[Guest Confucious]

You mean you didn't use the app available on Modaco to do just that? maybe I should have mmentioned it before you changed them all....

Sorry :)

[Guest Blakey]

You mean you didn't use the app available on Modaco to do just that? maybe I should have mmentioned it before you changed them all....

Sorry :)

Didn't know there was such an app? Link?

[Guest Confucious]

Didn't know there was such an app? Link?

It's an old app and I can't actually find it, if I do I'll post a link. sorry.

[Guest FrankyG]

Damn it! I wish I had come accross this before I went to Sweden and Denmark!! 10 days and cost me over £100 for (relatively) few texts and phone calls.

As THEY say "you live and learn"..... <_<

[Guest Christopher Woods]

Ouch...