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HTC Touch + GPS + VGA + more = HTC Polaris?

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#21
PaulOBrien

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Just found this... this is EXACTLY what i'm talking about:

http://forums.imate.com/

I wouldn't dream of letting something like that represent my company.

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#22
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Just noticed that http://www.clubimate.com/ultimate/ now says 'coming early 2008' at various points.

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#23
kapot

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If it is true that Polaris has 3.5" VGA Screen, I will choose it over the Kaiser :)

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#24
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If it is true that Polaris has 3.5" VGA Screen, I will choose it over the Kaiser :)

i wouldnt, thats a bit too big to fit in my pocket. id rather have a small screen (2.8 inches at the most) with a big resolution.

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my signature is too long

#25
wwaveydave

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.....and now this:

http://www.4winmobil...html#post137553

Looks like the exciting devices (7150 & 9150) aren't coming after all, or at least not until 2008. Interesting you don't like the 6150 and 8150. I don't think they're that bad, a bit retro. As for specs I'd pay for VGA and video out over GPS and a 3MP camera any day of the week. You can't get bluetooth VGA screens for your PDA.........

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#26
wwaveydave

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Oops, didn't realise it gone onto 2 pages..... sorry. :)

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#27
Metoo

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Completely agree. Device innovation was dead in the water until HTC started making phones and PDA phones. I dont feel that ETen are doing anything special, Toshiba G900? Nothing special about that other than the high res screen, which physically large. Half of i-mate products are HTC. Mio are pretty average. Even that HP device has equivalents...HTC Xcalibur? or its replacement?

HTC have done great things and make functional devices whilst maintaining some level of aesthetics too.

I've already said they innovated with the Magician and Wizard (and Universal), but what since then? Just rehashed versions of the same old thing, with minor changes to the casing or tweaks to the internal chipsets.

Your comparisons don't stack up.

"That HP device equivalent to the "Xcalibur"? What's that? If you mean the Excalibur, that's Smartphone, not a PPC. No Touch screen, no GPS, no 400MHz CPU.

i-mate don't use HTC anymore. The Ultimate range offers VGA and any form factor you like - not just HTCs "Is that with slider or without, Sir?". (shame no GPS options though). OK, they're not everyone's idea of style, and some won't make it to market, but at least they're trying to offer something different.

As for who else is "innovating",

Toshiba G900? first with 2.8" 800x480 screen and fingerprint reader.
Mio A701? - first PPC phone with integrated GPS
Eten X500? - thinnest PPC - and built in GPS
Eten M700? - first Slider PPC with GPS
Eten X500+? - first PPC phone with GPS and VGA
Eten X800? - first 3G PPC with GPS and VGA
HP Hw6915 - first PPC with thumboard, GPS and WiFi
Palm Treo 750 - first PPC with thumboard and "phone like" form factor
Samsung Blackjack? - smallest 3G Qwertybar Smartphone
Nokia N95? First mainstream phone with built in GPS, WiFi and 5MP camera
Nokia E90? First communicator with dual full function screens

What new innovations have HTC come up with? A trackball, TouchFlo and a tilting keyboard?

HTC are now the safe, conservative option in WM devices, spinning out tried and tested designs to extract maximum profit without re-tooling. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not innovation. They've forgotton how to push the boundaries and offer the WOW factor that excites the market pushes the market forward. Hell, they've even gone backwards and released an XDAII look-alike from their old parts bin. If you see someone in the street using an HTC these days, can you tell at a glance what model it is? Can you even do that from a catalogue thumbnail?

The Polaris is perfect demonstration of this. If it had VGA, like the early leaked spec suggested, it would have been the dream device. But now it looks like it's just a souped up Artemis, with boring old QVGA, in the same old case, with TouchFlo stuck on top. I hope I'm wrong, but on the evidence we've seen so far, I doubt it.

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#28
Metoo

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Just found this... this is EXACTLY what i'm talking about:

http://forums.imate.com/

I wouldn't dream of letting something like that represent my company.

P

Evidence of more cost-cutting? Perhaps they're doing it on the cheap with a student placement as administrator? I wonder why it's not part of the clubimate site?
Still, at least they have an "official" support forum (well, two in fact). (Hello, HTC?)
The culling of the product line doesn't look good especially as they were the most "interesting" devices. Guess that's a symptom of their current financial woes.
Maybe because of them being the most expensive to produce, so the accountants have made them concentrate on the "mainstream" devices?

Edited by Metoo, 08 August 2007 - 09:55 AM.

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#29
PaulOBrien

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HTC devices do build on established successful designs, and it makes perfect sense. I really liked the Hermes, I loved the Trinity, now the Kaiser is the perfect blend of the two, and all derived from the Magician really.

Let's look at some of their products tho. Off the top of my head (so forgive me if any are incorrect)...

Himalaya - first Pocket PC Phone Edition?
BlueAngel - first vertical sliding qwerty PPCPE? First PPC camera?
Blue Angel EVDO - first EVDO PPCPE? (definitely first EVDO vertical slider!)
Magician - first 2.8" screen?
Typhoon - amazing revolution in Smartphone form factor
Hurricane - first music orientated SP?
Tornado - first QVGA SP? First WiFi SP?
Wizard - first horizontal QWERTY slider PPCPE?
Prophet - first WiFi equipped 2.8" PPC?
Breeze - first 3G SP?
Universal - first 3G VGA? First decent size KB? First dual cams?
Hermes - first 3G PPCPE?
Trinity - first 3G PPCPE with GPS?
Athena - whole bunch of firsts?
Elf - first TouchFlo UI, first hardened screen, tiny form factor? First real sexy PPC?
Artemis - first trackball + wheel?
Excalibur - first SP QWERTY? Real sexy form factor? First Joggr?
Vox - first QWERTY slider SP?
Atlas - first WM6 equipped horizontal slider?
Titan - first WM6 equipped CDMA slider with real sex form factor and good specs?
Kaiser - First tilt? First device to really pack in the features with little compromise?

Some of those might not be right, but as I say, it's all off the top of my head, so cut me some slack. A number of the phones you listed above had considerable flaws, and a number of them were actually also made by HTC (iPaq, Treo...).

I've not listed some other phones like StrTrk (slimmest flip), Monet (first DAB-IP mobile TV) too.

With regards to the future, there are still more innovations coming such as the wings (first integrated GPS SP). I'll be the first to admit that HTC aren't perfect, but I thank them for their innovation, commitment to the platform and for producing devices that I want to own!

P

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#30
PaulOBrien

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Hmmm, that post rambled a bit :)

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#31
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I've already said they innovated with the Magician and Wizard (and Universal), but what since then? Just rehashed versions of the same old thing, with minor changes to the casing or tweaks to the internal chipsets.

Your comparisons don't stack up.

"That HP device equivalent to the "Xcalibur"? What's that? If you mean the Excalibur, that's Smartphone, not a PPC. No Touch screen, no GPS, no 400MHz CPU.

i-mate don't use HTC anymore. The Ultimate range offers VGA and any form factor you like - not just HTCs "Is that with slider or without, Sir?". (shame no GPS options though). OK, they're not everyone's idea of style, and some won't make it to market, but at least they're trying to offer something different.

As for who else is "innovating",

Toshiba G900? first with 2.8" 800x480 screen and fingerprint reader.
Mio A701? - first PPC phone with integrated GPS
Eten X500? - thinnest PPC - and built in GPS
Eten M700? - first Slider PPC with GPS
Eten X500+? - first PPC phone with GPS and VGA
Eten X800? - first 3G PPC with GPS and VGA
HP Hw6915 - first PPC with thumboard, GPS and WiFi
Palm Treo 750 - first PPC with thumboard and "phone like" form factor
Samsung Blackjack? - smallest 3G Qwertybar Smartphone
Nokia N95? First mainstream phone with built in GPS, WiFi and 5MP camera
Nokia E90? First communicator with dual full function screens

What new innovations have HTC come up with? A trackball, TouchFlo and a tilting keyboard?

HTC are now the safe, conservative option in WM devices, spinning out tried and tested designs to extract maximum profit without re-tooling. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not innovation. They've forgotton how to push the boundaries and offer the WOW factor that excites the market pushes the market forward. Hell, they've even gone backwards and released an XDAII look-alike from their old parts bin. If you see someone in the street using an HTC these days, can you tell at a glance what model it is? Can you even do that from a catalogue thumbnail?

The Polaris is perfect demonstration of this. If it had VGA, like the early leaked spec suggested, it would have been the dream device. But now it looks like it's just a souped up Artemis, with boring old QVGA, in the same old case, with TouchFlo stuck on top. I hope I'm wrong, but on the evidence we've seen so far, I doubt it.


If you say so.

I dont think any of other devices have done anything particularly special. Fingerprint reader on the G900, why do I want one of those? What does it permit me to do? That level of security for a phone, I just dont see the point. Ok you can launch apps with it, again...why would you do that? What's wrong with the menu and buttons? I dont deny that having a high res screen would be nice...infact it would be great...but on such small screens its not the end of the world. Also, conveniently, you fail to note that the HTC devices that offer 3G and HSDPA connections as opposed to GPRS/EDGE....

I have serveral friends with some of the latest Nokia devices and again they are not all that great...the software builds are buggy as hell a lot of the time also the build quality can sometimes leave a bit to be desired.

Also, with regards to aesthetics, do any of the other manufacturers make a device that is spectacular?

And another thing, being the first to do something in any industry doesnt mean you're good at it or that you have done it well.

It's swings and roundabouts, but to say that HTC are not innovating or bringing anything new to the table just doesnt seem fair. Whilst it may technically be a fact I think HTC achieves things in (IMO) a better way. They are very good at what they do and like i said, not being the first to do something isnt always a bad thing.

I think the first HTC device I had was an Orange SPV E200, since then...I've never looked back and have now worked my way from that through a C500, MDA Vario, HTC TyTN and soon I will be getting either a Kaiser/TyTN II or maybe a Polaris...

Personally, I think HTC paved the way when they first started putting devices out. Back then things were stagnating big time. HTC came along and woke people up. So yeah, maybe they are taking a breather and just refining things a bit. But I wouldnt count them out of anything just yet. Paul is right, they totally changed the way people look at phones/PDAs.

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#32
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Fair enough. I guess we're never going to agree on what makes an innovator as opposed to a developer. I never denied HTC brought major innovation up and until the Universal.

I just don't buy the "HTC are great/everyone else is rubbish" line though. I've had just as many bugs and problems with HTC devices as any other brand.

Reading the responses here you would think all HTC products were defect free. (Failing joysticks, peeling paint, loose keyboards, screens that won't calibrate?)
Or that they actually came up with the concept of the Treo and the HP GPS Messenger. (Palm would love that)
Or that their support was miles better than other OEMs. (How long to fix the StrTrk missing calls bug? How long before HTC had a direct support web site?)
Or that any of their "additions" have been revolutionary or illuminating, rather than a measured reaction to keep up with what real innovators are doing? (e.g. Touch-Flo vs iPhone).

Of course the Polaris could still turn out to live up to the excitement that the "GPS AND VGA"announcement sparked off (note the thread title). Except my gut feeling is that it won't, and will just be an Artemis with 3G and Touch-Flo. No doubt it'll please many, and sell by the truckload. But when you know it _could_ have had VGA (be it 3.5 or 2.8), and you cast your eye enviously over other devices that _are_ bringing hi-res to the pocket, I know the Touch-Flo shine would wear off very quickly.

Edited by Metoo, 08 August 2007 - 12:16 PM.

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#33
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No no no,

I dont deny that HTC have their own troubles trust me, I went through two TyTN units before getting an M3100 that worked, so I know first hand the problems that are around.

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#34
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I have to say, if this has a VGA screen, it could be the device I have been waiting for for ages! I have been looking for my next step after my trusty Universal, and this could well be it (VGA screen dependant). I dont use the keyboard much on my Universal anymore, I could certainly live without it, and this beastie appears to tick every other box!

The size? However big it is, It can't be bigger than my Universal, expecially when you consider how fat the Universal is... :)

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Motorola Tristar > Nokia 8210 > Nokia 8310 > SPV > SPV E100 > C500 > M5000 > Diamond/Victor > Leo/HD2

#35
pierre

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Let's look at some of their products tho. Off the top of my head (so forgive me if any are incorrect)...
P


Hey, haven't you forgot the most important:

-SPV Canary / Tanager: first ever WM smartphone? ..Which lead to the opening of Modaco?

Please correct if I'm mistaken.

Talking of quality, I used dozens of HTC since 2002, with a single hardware problem: my Tanager's 3.5mm jack got loose. I got it fixed under guarantee. Never had a single incident other than that.

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Sun is shining, weather is sweet.

#36
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Doesn't the iPhone have a 3.5" display? If so, then this should be around the same size I would guess...

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#37
Metoo

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Doesn't the Iphone have a 3.5" display? If so, then this should be around the same size I would guess...

Except the Iphone is all screen and no buttons or D-Pad.
Forget the dream of 3.5" and VGA. Let's look at the clues so far:-
Take a look at the XDA thread.
  • 110mmx58mmx16 (Iphone is 115x61x11.6 - and no buttons)
  • 2.8".
  • No mention of VGA.
  • Use of words "Compact" and "pocket sized".
  • "insider" assertion that it's Artemis sized and QVGA.
  • Screenshots to back that up.
  • Sig photo showing Artemis-like form factor.
  • The fact that the CTIA Miami "roadmap" that started all this (created on 21 June) uses a stock drawing of an Artemis (note old bezel and no 3G front camera)
  • HTC's policy of gradually "evolving" current products.
  • The gap in their "Tier 2" product line for a 3G/400MHz Artemis.
  • The opportunity to tackle the major criticism of their first Touch-Flo device (speed).
  • The chance to launch a "Tier 2" product with the same smooth lines and as the Elf.
  • The size the Artemis would have to be to accommodate 3.5":- http://forum.xda-dev...mp;postcount=11
  • The fact that early "road maps" are leaked to create a stir, that specs get changed/scaled down, and that typos happen.
Stack that against one blog post? Doesn't seem likely to me.

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#38
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HTC devices do build on established successful designs, and it makes perfect sense. I really liked the Hermes, I loved the Trinity, now the Kaiser is the perfect blend of the two, and all derived from the Magician really.
....snip...

Universal - first 3G VGA? First decent size KB? First dual cams?

...snip...
P



Was there another PPC that had the mini laptop/PDA dual form factor before the universal?

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#39
Metoo

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Was there another PPC that had the mini laptop/PDA dual form factor before the universal?

Plenty. HP Omnigo 100, Sony Clie UX50, Sharp Zaurus C series from just the ones I owned. Oh, you meant PPC? I guess the limitation there was the OS.
Just shows the idea's not new, though. HTC Innovate? HP did it 12 years ago!
http://cdecas.free.f...ages/omnigo.jpg

Edited by Metoo, 08 August 2007 - 07:32 PM.

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#40
whoster69

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Except the Iphone is all screen and no buttons or D-Pad.
Forget the dream of 3.5" and VGA. Let's look at the clues so far:-
Take a look at the XDA thread.

  • 110mmx58mmx16 (Iphone is 115x61x11.6 - and no buttons)
  • 2.8".
  • No mention of VGA.
  • Use of words "Compact" and "pocket sized".
  • "insider" assertion that it's Artemis sized and QVGA.
  • Screenshots to back that up.
  • Sig photo showing Artemis-like form factor.
  • The fact that the CTIA Miami "roadmap" that started all this (created on 21 June) uses a stock drawing of an Artemis (note old bezel and no 3G front camera)
  • HTC's policy of gradually "evolving" current products.
  • The gap in their "Tier 2" product line for a 3G/400MHz Artemis.
  • The opportunity to tackle the major criticism of their first Touch-Flo device (speed).
  • The chance to launch a "Tier 2" product with the same smooth lines and as the Elf.
  • The size the Artemis would have to be to accommodate 3.5":- http://forum.xda-dev...mp;postcount=11
  • The fact that early "road maps" are leaked to create a stir, that specs get changed/scaled down, and that typos happen.
Stack that against one blog post? Doesn't seem likely to me.


The iPhone is not all screen. Have you actually held one? I was amazed by how much wasted space there is at each end! As to it being 2.8 or 3.5" there were some brochures that came out from HTC a month or two ago that mentioned 3.5" and VGA for the Polaris. It's not just one blog post as you indicate. Until I hear confirmation otherwise, I would expect it to be a 3.5" device with VGA since HTC has said it would be themselves.

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