120 replies to this topic

[Chris Bronson]

kurtfhouse, on Jan 23 2008, 18:59, said:

when my Touch Cruise arrives this week I fully expect it to outperform the Artemis that I have just got rid of

Too bad! The Cruise is also equipped with the underused Qualcomm chip. Time to cancel your order.

[PaulOBrien]

Correct.

P

[NuShrike]

Paul (MVP), on Jan 23 2008, 01:53, said:

- The Kaiser and other MSM devices have ATI Imageon in the core chip
- HTC haven't implemented drivers to support this, so it's not used
- HTC feel the overall device experience is acceptable, and as a whole they feel they have a great device
- Some users feel the video performance is not acceptable

Let me break it down a little too.  Camera, GPS, video playback, audio fidelity, etc are not primary core functionality of this WM, as I see it.  However, phone calling is and should be highly polished and mature (and not without its fair gripes).

Nevertheless, video redrawing isn't even a core function, it's foundational/fundamental on which everything the device uses to communicate with the user and as well as common day-to-day functionality.  It may be adequate to "get by" now, but it's disgusting when compared with previous and other non-Qualcomm devices.  This is why IMO the non-inflatable, unreplaceable flat-tires analogy is quite accurate.

I feel some of this is also Qualcomm's fault for burning us multiple ways; violating Broadcom's intellectual IP so delaying or destroying the release of Qualcomm based devices, and not having a DirectX M sdk publically available so we have to blame HTC for not paying-for-it/using-it.

Edited by NuShrike, 24 January 2008 - 01:13 AM.

[PaulOBrien]

I guess the bottom line is we're all united in wanting snappier devices with quicker UIs and an optimised OS that makes full use of the hardware on the device! It doesn't seem like HTC are going to do anything for the Kaiser, let's hope they do change their mind.

I STILL love my Kaiser anyway... but i'd love it even more if they gave us accelerated video

P

[Chris Bronson]

NuShrike, on Jan 23 2008, 20:41, said:

I feel some of this is also Qualcomm's fault for burning us multiple ways; violating Broadcom's intellectual IP so delaying or destroying the release of Qualcomm based devices, and not having a DirectX M sdk publically available so we have to blame HTC for not paying-for-it/using-it.

Interesting point. Could you be more specific to what extend the IP case impacts HTC and the embedded ATI video acceleration?

[PaulOBrien]

I'd be inclined to think they're not linked.

It's interesting tho that HTC still seem to be able to ship Qualcomm based devices in the US. What gives?

P

[Chris Bronson]

The ruling allows Qualcomm to sell selected chips that infringe on Broadcom patents in the US through January 2009. The ruling also prevents Qualcomm from providing tech support or sofware updates for its MSM7200 chip. The court order can be found here.

Edited by Chris Bronson, 23 January 2008 - 09:43 PM.

[Beermaker]

Paul (MVP), on Jan 23 2008, 03:53, said:

- The Kaiser and other MSM devices have ATI Imageon in the core chip
- HTC haven't implemented drivers to support this, so it's not used
- HTC feel the overall device experience is acceptable, and as a whole they feel they have a great device
- Some users feel the video performance is not acceptable

I still do not believe the device was mis-sold, I still appreciate that development time has gone into other aspects of the software, I still hope it is improved in later software / hardware revisions but I still think the Kaiser is the best device I own / have ever owned, and am glad I spent my hard-earned on it.

P

The official press release from HTC certainly implies that their devices use these features of the Qualcomm chipset.
And no where did they make a disclaimer that the devices would not use these features. If you promote a product based on claims that you do not make good on, that is illegal. Period.

[kurtfhouse]

Chris Bronson, on Jan 23 2008, 18:11, said:

Too bad! The Cruise is also equipped with the underused Qualcomm chip. Time to cancel your order.

I am seriously considering it

Ironically I was torn between the Cruise and the Eten X800. I decided to go for the name I thought I could trust from past experience over the VGA screen I have been hankering for . I may give Clove a ring and see if they can change my order to the x800 and I'll have £50 spare for an 8gb MicroSD card, and it'll come with a case.

Its a real shame as my previous phones from HTC have always been excellent.

[Beermaker]

Paul (MVP), on Jan 23 2008, 03:26, said:

They're saying what the CHIP can handle. It doesn't have an 8MP camera either, but I dodn't see people launching a class action about that?

P

From the HTCClassaction page,
""Some may look at this and say that it states it supports an 8MP camera as well, and this isn't included either. The difference here is that an 8 MP camera is not an integral part of the chipset, while the video hardware most definitely is. Furthermore, the devices' specifications say they come with an X MP camera (so obviously not with an 8 MP camera), but they don't say the devices come without these video capabilities. "

[NuShrike]

Chris Bronson, on Jan 23 2008, 14:22, said:

The ruling allows Qualcomm to sell selected chips that infringe on Broadcom patents in the US through January 2009. The ruling also prevents Qualcomm from providing tech support or sofware updates for its MSM7200 chip. The court order can be found here.

Exactly my point.  I think we would all be much happier if HTC stuck with the aging XScale, Samsung, TI omap chips instead of trouble-attracting Qualcomm.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda.  <_<

Edited by NuShrike, 24 January 2008 - 01:17 AM.

[xorangefirex]

I love my kaiser, but (and mind you I don't even know if getting what they are upset about would fix this) I would lvoe for the OS to be more snappy and responsive. I would really love to change my screen orientation and not have to wait for 5-6 seconds to touch the screen. Also, I wouldn't mind some better video output.

[Kchrpm]

I'm guessing this is related to my Advantage having worse video playback performance than my old Axim X30 as well...

[Boinng]

The bottom line is that HTC have cut corners on these devices, and now its coming back to haunt them.  Their rubbish response to the situation will do them no favours in the long run.

The Reg have just published their second article btw - http://www.reghardwa...ction_response/

It's worth bearing in mind that as large as HTC are, their brand is still quite new to the public eye, and it's a brand that is now being quite badly tarnished.  By pissing off everyone at XDA Developers (where concern about this whole issue first crystallised) they've effectively shat upon some of their brand's most ardent ambassadors, and they will certainly pay a price for that.

[kurtfhouse]

Chris Bronson, on Jan 23 2008, 18:11, said:

Too bad! The Cruise is also equipped with the underused Qualcomm chip. Time to cancel your order.

After careful consideration, my order for the Cruise has now been cancelled  and my Eten Glofiish X800 should arrive either Saturday or Monday.

I will definitely want to watch video's on my device and decided it wasn't worth the risk of wasting nearly £400 of my hard earned cash on a buggy Touch Cruise.

I am pretty sure some sort of fix will be released by HTC but don't want to chance it, these devices aren't cheap!

[stesa]

kurtfhouse, on Jan 25 2008, 00:54, said:

After careful consideration, my order for the Cruise has now been cancelled  and my Eten Glofiish X800 should arrive either Saturday or Monday.

  you can't understand what have you done !!!  I've had the x800 and its really a crap and  have polaris that is the best pda/pe i never owned

[Chris Bronson]

kurtfhouse, on Jan 24 2008, 18:54, said:

my order for the Cruise has now been cancelled

HTC take notice: unlike Apple retards, users are not inclined to pay more for less!

[PaulOBrien]

Haha!

X800 vs Cruise? I know what i'd have in an instant (and it's not the X800 i'm afraid)...

P

[Phil_UK]

Hi

Not sure if this has already been spotted and linked to, but it is official.  HTC will not be providing accelerated video support in current devices, you will have to spend extra cash on a new device to get what you thought you were getting with their latest models

http://www.htc.com/p...4-2008-0122.htm

It seems HTC have taken legal advice and state they have no class action lawsuit liability.  The statement seems to have been written not to give it's customers an apology or information, but to stop their investors off loading shares!

In the UK we had the famous "Ratners" jewelers that through one mis-placed statement ruined the company, and this was before the internet!  HTC have probably just done the same thing:  http://en.wikipedia....i/Gerald_Ratner  Essentially HTC are admitting that their current expensive devices are very expensive "crap" to quote the famous Mr Ratner.

How they can get away with promoting the Qualcomm chips in their specifications knowing people would Google it and see Qualcomm wax lyrical about all the chips cool features only for HTC to not include them.  

Regards

Phil

[X-Phile]

s***! I wanted to by TytnII - it was my only dream and suddenly such pig from HTC!