116 replies to this topic

[xorangefirex]

The device really does not look very smart at all, hoever ther spec sheet will make anyone who bought the kaiser for $900USD be quite upset. Although it only had TV out and a VGA screen on the Kaiser, those are two high demand features and in combination make the device quite formidable

[Metoo]

Menneisyys, on May 3 2008, 23:22, said:

If you don't want to wait, get the iPAQ 210 + N95 combo - if you don't mind taking two devices with you. It's just an unbeatable duo much-much more versatile, faster, more powerful etc. than the 9502.
The N95 does - actually, it's much smaller and lighter than the 9502 (see my comparaqtive shot above, where I've directly compared the size of the two phones). And you can put the 210 on your shirt pocket without problems.

It all boils down to whether you're ready to keep two devices with you. If you are, then, there're much better choices than the 9502. In my humble opinion, that is.

If you wanted two devices, why would you even be thinking of the 9502, or any other"convergence" device?   In that case what you need is  go-anywhere (i.e. small) phone which excels for communications, and a larger multimedia add-on for when you have the opportunity/need to enoy it.
The N95 in no way fits the former category. The battery life sucks, it's unstable, fragile, and it's far too fat and heavy to share a pocket with a PDA, even when you're a cargo pant/fishing waistcoat wearing geek.  Much rather an E51 which is solid peformer and brilliant phone (virtually an E90, and a worthy replacement for the ubiquitous 6310) in a super slim and narrow package.
Then perhaps an N800/810 for the big screen stuff. Blows the HP away, more fun, and it's an open platform under constant (and open source) development, rather than the "we've had your money, sod off" attitude of HP. Hell, unlike most other manufacturers, HP have already said you won't be able  to upgrade to WM 6.1 on their "brand new" device. So much for paying a premium for big name in-life "support"!

Edited by Metoo, 04 May 2008 - 01:52 AM.

[Menneisyys]

xorangefirex, on May 4 2008, 03:28, said:

The device really does not look very smart at all, hoever ther spec sheet will make anyone who bought the kaiser for $900USD be quite upset. Although it only had TV out and a VGA screen on the Kaiser, those are two high demand features and in combination make the device quite formidable

The Kaiser has a far better and more usable keyboard...

[Menneisyys]

Metoo, on May 4 2008, 03:51, said:

If you wanted two devices, why would you even be thinking of the 9502, or any other"convergence" device?   In that case what you need is  go-anywhere (i.e. small) phone which excels for communications, and a larger multimedia add-on for when you have the opportunity/need to enoy it.

Yup, this is why I recommended a N95 + big-screen but still easily pocketable (unlike the HTC Advantage) VGA standalone PDA as a much better choice than the way overpriced and not-very-fast (see its multimedia performance, small keyboard etc) 9502.

Metoo, on May 4 2008, 03:51, said:

The N95 in no way fits the former category. The battery life sucks, it's unstable, fragile, and it's far too fat and heavy to share a pocket with a PDA, even when you're a cargo pant/fishing waistcoat wearing geek.  Much rather an E51 which is solid peformer and brilliant phone (virtually an E90, and a worthy replacement for the ubiquitous 6310) in a super slim and narrow package.

Let me disagree about your remarks on the N95, battery life- and stability-wise. Fimrware versions v20 / v21 are REALLY nice, delivering nice battery life etc. Of course, a slider will always be more fragile than a candybar like the E51 or an N82. BTW, if you need a non-fragile candybar, why don't you consider the N82? It has excellent multimedia features / speakers and camera and is great as a phone (that is, it's a perfect complementer of, say, the hx4700 / iPAQ 210) and is sturdy (non-slider). As a phone, it's too way better than most of the (non-Nokia) alternatives; for example, it allows for flawless call recording.

Metoo, on May 4 2008, 03:51, said:

Then perhaps an N800/810 for the big screen stuff. Blows the HP away, more fun, and it's an open platform under constant (and open source) development, rather than the "we've had your money, sod off" attitude of HP. Hell, unlike most other manufacturers, HP have already said you won't be able  to upgrade to WM 6.1 on their "brand new" device. So much for paying a premium for big name in-life "support"!

Well, while I think the Nokia Internet Tablets are indeed great, they're more for Linux geeks. For seasoned Windows Mobile users, sticking with a large-screen VGA standalone PDA could be better.

As far as HP is concerned, I'm certainly aware of their ridiculous upgrade policy. I'm, however, absolutely sure cooked ROM's will be released for it - just like with all 64+M Flash past VGA devices. (The WM6.1 for the hx4700 is, for example, a real wonder. BTW, speaking of the hx4700, it's also a very good alternative as a standalone PDA with a great, 4" screen.) The reason I recommend the iPAQ 210 (or the hx4700) that much is mostly because their price, which is (at most) half of the 9502 (particularly if you get the hx4700 off eBay for, say, $200).

[netnerd]

Menneisyys, on May 3 2008, 23:10, said:

The reason I recommend the iPAQ 210 (or the hx4700) that much is mostly because their price, which is (at most) half of the 9502 (particularly if you get the hx4700 off eBay for, say, $200).

u get what u pay for! a mercedes on average cost 80000$, are u going tell people to stay away from mercedes and get a japanese or american car that costs less than 25000? this message was created on imate 9502, I have no problems with the keyboard, it' perfect for me. my ONLY complain about 9502 is the external button, power button at the corner, it' much easier to press if it in the middle/center. ok, wireless button, or note, camera button, they too close together; sometime I have to look to make sure I got the right button.

Edited by netnerd, 04 May 2008 - 01:35 PM.

[shootydogthing]

Netnerd, I notice your spelling and grammar mistakes... I almost never make mistakes on my kaiser keyboard

[netnerd]

shootydogthing, on May 4 2008, 06:56, said:

Netnerd, I notice your spelling and grammar mistakes... I almost never make mistakes on my kaiser keyboard

that' because your Kaiser with QVGA is boring!
on Imate 9150 with VGA and hsdpa and hsupa.
exciting makes it easy to mis-spell words!  

[shootydogthing]

The only thing you have over me is the VGA screen. MY screen tilts, and I have HSPA too :

PLUS my device looks nice

Edited by shootydogthing, 04 May 2008 - 04:08 PM.

[Menneisyys]

netnerd, on May 4 2008, 14:46, said:

u get what u pay for! a mercedes on average cost 80000$, are u going tell people to stay away from mercedes and get a japanese or american car that costs less than 25000? this message was created on imate 9502, I have no problems with the keyboard, it' perfect for me. my ONLY complain about 9502 is the external button, power button at the corner, it' much easier to press if it in the middle/center. ok, wireless button, or note, camera button, they too close together; sometime I have to look to make sure I got the right button.

Come on... did you ever hold a hand a high-end Nokia N-series phone like the N82? The N95? Did you do the same to the iPAQ hx4700 (which, again, can be bought off eBay REALLY cheap and with WM6.1 it flies?)? Then, you may already know what you stated about "there's no free lunch" or "more expensive is always better" isn't necessarily true.

I'm recommending a hx4700 (or an iPAQ 210, if you need SDHC, USB host, PXA310 and the other goodies and can live with the major problems of the new model) because it has an astonishingly good price/performance ratio, particularly if you use it together with the N95 (or N82 if you prefer non-sliders). On a 2.8" device, a VGA screen is pretty much useless if you really want to make use of it. Not so on a 4" device like the iPAQ.

The hx4700 (210) + N95 (N82; or the E51 if you don't need that good a camera) combo is just far more powerful and versatile than the 9502 and still costs less. The only downside is the need fo carrying two devices instead of one and the lack of EDR with the Nokia phones, which results in an in-practice maximal Internet download speed of about 72 kbyte/s. Otherwise, the combo works just great.

The 9502 is just too overpriced for what it's offering - this is my point.

[Menneisyys]

shootydogthing, on May 4 2008, 18:08, said:

The only thing you have over me is the VGA screen. MY screen tilts, and I have HSPA too :

PLUS my device looks nice

Yeah, the Tilt is indeed very nicely designed. Not something one can say about some other handsets

[Menneisyys]

xorangefirex, on May 4 2008, 03:28, said:

The device really does not look very smart at all, hoever ther spec sheet will make anyone who bought the kaiser for $900USD be quite upset. Although it only had TV out and a VGA screen on the Kaiser, those are two high demand features and in combination make the device quite formidable

BTW, you can also add both digital VGA (with XGA resolution at most) AND composite / S-Video output to the Tilt too - see http://www.spectec.com.tw/sdv842.htm (also linked to from my review). Granted, it's a card-based solution not as robust as a built-in one but, unlike the 9502, it does support digital VGA output - not just a bad-quality, low-resolution TV one.

[netnerd]

Menneisyys, on May 4 2008, 15:15, said:

The hx4700 (210) + N95 (N82; or the E51 if you don't need that good a camera) combo is just far more powerful and versatile than the 9502 and still costs less. The only downside is the need fo carrying two devices instead of one and the lack of EDR with the Nokia phones, which results in an in-practice maximal Internet download speed of about 72 kbyte/s. Otherwise, the combo works just great.

The 9502 is just too overpriced for what it's offering - this is my point.

my point is i want something that fits in my jean pocket!   i willing to get hx4700 + N95 if u willing to carry the purse everywhere i go!  

[Menneisyys]

BTW, SDHC-wise, let me cite http://forum.xda-dev...p;postcount=108 (today's post):

"They are very aware of the MicroSD issues but they don't have an ETA for a fix/patch. The same things are happening with the 6150, 8150 and 8502 so it is in their best interest to take care of it ASAP.

If anyone ever wants me to say anything to the higher ups at I-Mate, just let me know. I email
their US rep all the time and provide and receive feedback from him. I am one of the authorized I-Mate dealers listed on I-Mates website.

There is a lot riding on the success of these 4 phones. You would think that they want to get it right."

I also heartily recommend http://forum.xda-dev...ad.php?t=351788 and http://www.howardfor...d.php?t=1263663  for more user opinions. For example, another link collection for video playback issues is at http://forum.xda-dev...p;postcount=110 :

"If they're already working hard on the SD thing already, then just passing on the message of the crappy video performance thing would be amazing.  Such a massive deal was made of the screen resolution and TV-out capabilities of the 9502, to find that it can't play video worthy of either is a massive let-down.

It is almost impossible to find a thread on the 9502 that doesn't end in "no-one will pay £400 for this because it has the same video problems as the Tytn II", so it will obviously massively affect sales.

Examples:

http://www.corecodec...msg5624#msg5624

http://forums.imate....s/m_1827/tm.htm
etc etc."

[Menneisyys]

netnerd, on May 5 2008, 02:07, said:

my point is i want something that fits in my jean pocket!   i willing to get hx4700 + N95 if u willing to carry the purse everywhere i go!  

OK, I didn't know you don't have a shirt pocket for a stand-alone PDA Then, of course, the converged way is the way to go. (It's another question whether it's really worth going, but I won't debate on that I fear the 9502 will have the same future as the O2 XDA Flame or the Toshi G900 - read: no real bugfixes, upgrades etc.).

[netnerd]

Menneisyys, on May 5 2008, 00:14, said:

I fear the 9502 will have the same future as the O2 XDA Flame or the Toshi G900 - read: no real bugfixes, upgrades etc.).

maybe manufactures dont bother to support O2 XDA flame or Toshi G900 cus it only got 2100mzh 3G, no USA 3G!
it doesnt sell much cus only countries with 2100mzh 3G will buy it.

[Menneisyys]

awarner (MVP), on Apr 30 2008, 01:14, said:

How easy is the keyboard to use ie similar to the wizard or the Universal?
Not a bad looking device though.

Much less usable than on the Universal - just compare my direct comparative shot I took at MWC - the Univ has about two times larger thummbboard, thanks to its excellent design. There is just no comparison - the Universal is much-much better and you can thumb-type on it far-far faster.

The Wizard's thumbboard, of course, is far inferior to that of the Universal. While it's still larger than that of the 9502, I'd state that they're pretty much the same, usability- and speed-wise. At least for my not-that-big thumbs (I can perfectly and quickly enter text on my BB 8800 too, which does have a cramped thumbboard. Of course, not as fast as on my Universal...). People with large fingers may find the 9502 lacking in this respect.

[Menneisyys]

netnerd, on May 5 2008, 15:39, said:

maybe manufactures dont bother to support O2 XDA flame or Toshi G900 cus it only got 2100mzh 3G, no USA 3G!
it doesnt sell much cus only countries with 2100mzh 3G will buy it.

Let me disagree: the majority of the handheld / handset sales are made outside the U.S: in Europe and, mostly, in Asia. This is why, for example, S-E (Palm PDA-wise; not talking about handsets), Nokia, Toshi etc. have long left the U.S. (Albeit, with the X1, S-E is trying to making a comeback.) Take for example the Nokia N95: it's constantly receiving the latest stuff (for example, Flash Lite 3) and other goodies, even if it's almost not sold in the U.S.

[Metoo]

Menneisyys, on May 5 2008, 09:14, said:

OK, I didn't know you don't have a shirt pocket for a stand-alone PDA Then, of course, the converged way is the way to go. (It's another question whether it's really worth going, but I won't debate on that I fear the 9502 will have the same future as the O2 XDA Flame or the Toshi G900 - read: no real bugfixes, upgrades etc.).

I find it amusing that you spin this line one one hand, yet continually praise and recommend HP, who must be one of the worst offendors for not issuing firmware bug fixes or upgrades. If you're going to slam down manufacturers for lack of support, at least be consistent. Tosh did (eventually) release a new ROM to fix the major issues with the G900. Far more than HP ever did for the 69xx.  i-mate have said they are working on an SDHC fix and are committed to issuing WM6.1 upgrades across their range. Unlike HP who say there will be no upgrade for any of their brand new products.

Menneisyys said:

The hx4700 (210) + N95 (N82; or the E51 if you don't need that good a camera) combo is just far more powerful and versatile than the 9502 and still costs less. The only downside is the need fo carrying two devices instead of one and the lack of EDR with the Nokia phones, which results in an in-practice maximal Internet download speed of about 72 kbyte/s. Otherwise, the combo works just great.

Actually, the E51 (and N82) does have EDR. Plus, the E51 is faster, more compact (probably slim enough to share a trouser pocket with a PDA), easier to use (e.g. dedicated home, messaging, contacts and calendar buttons), has twice the battery life, and is almost half  the price of the N95. Given your emphasis on value for money, I still can't see why you're recommending the bulky and expensive N95 as the phone part of a two box solution.

Edited by Metoo, 05 May 2008 - 06:22 PM.

[netnerd]

it' all about convenience these days!   i used to carry Dell X50v with 3.7" VGA and plain regular nokia cellphone!  everytime i want to check emails or surf internet, i have to turn on bluetooth on the nokia!  and when i finish checking emails or internet, i have to turn off bluetooth again on the nokia!   i also have a bluetooth gps, when i want to use gps.  i have to turn on pda and turn on bluetooth gps!
now with Imate 9502, i can do all those with just carrying 1 device!

[Metoo]

netnerd, on May 5 2008, 19:17, said:

it' all about convenience these days!   i used to carry Dell X50v with 3.7" VGA and plain regular nokia cellphone!  everytime i want to check emails or surf internet, i have to turn on bluetooth on the nokia!  and when i finish checking emails or internet, i have to turn off bluetooth again on the nokia!   i also have a bluetooth gps, when i want to use gps.  i have to turn on pda and turn on bluetooth gps!
now with Imate 9502, i can do all those with just carrying 1 device!

Exactly. Outside of enterprise use and a few die-hard geeks, charging and carrying a standalone PDA around as well a phone just doesn't make sense when a smartphone will do everything from one box. If you're going for all that hassle just for better web browsing or video viewing, the Ipaq doesn't really cut it either. 4" 640x480 is still too small and low res for most sites without squinting or scrolling. IE, and WM's whole support for VGA is nothing more than a bodge and afterthought. Text entry of any length is still a pain. So you're actually gaining very little (and virtually no extra functionality) over a decent smartphone. And a so-called powerful VGA "Enterprise Handheld" with no built in GPS?

Which is why I recommended the N800 series for that situation - bigger screen, much higher res, decent keyboards (virtual or hard), and an OS designed to make full use of the screen - all in a box smaller than the 210. And no, you don't have to be a Linux geek to drive one - the ITOS front end is actually very user friendly.

Edited by Metoo, 05 May 2008 - 08:37 PM.