Guest Paul (MVP) Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Regular readers will know that I wasn't a huge fan of the original HTC Advantage (I don't commute and I feel it is a very 'niche' device), but at the recent Mobius event in Seattle HTC were kind enough to give all attendees the follow up device you see here, the X7510. And now, here's your chance to ask any questions you'd like to know on it :D The device is a Pocket PC (Professional) device, with stunning specs, a huge 5" VGA screen, a haptic feedback keyboard and 16GB of internal storage. Priced at an £656.99 from devicewire and available from 3rd June, specs are as follows...Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional Intel 624 MHz processor UMTS (850/1900/2100MHz) and GSM/GPRS/EDGE (quad-band, 850/900/1800/1900 MHz) 256MB ROM / 128MB RAM 16GB internal storage 5” 640x480 VGA screen Detachable QWERTY keyboard with haptic feedback GPS Wireless LAN: WiFi 802.11b/g Bluetooth 2.0 3 Mega Pixel Camera with Auto Focus Front VGA Camera High power LED for camera flash 2100mAh batteryGot questions? Post them here! The device is currently running pre-release software, so bear this in mind when asking questions. A full review will follow when I have the final ROM, after which I will be giving the X7510 away in a forthcoming competition! :( P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest soup dragon Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) I may be missing something, but what is this supposed to do that I can't do already with my Asus Eee and Vario II? Just because a company CAN make something doesn't nec. mean that they SHOULD. :D Edited May 23, 2008 by soup dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aktopshooter Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Regular readers will know that I wasn't a huge fan of the original HTC Advantage (I don't commute and I feel it is a very 'niche' device), but at the recent Mobius event in Seattle HTC were kind enough to give all attendees the follow up device you see here, the X7510. And now, here's your chance to ask any questions you'd like to know on it :D The device is a Pocket PC (Professional) device, with stunning specs, a huge 5" VGA screen, a haptic feedback keyboard and 16GB of internal storage. Priced at an £656.99 from devicewire and available from 3rd June, specs are as follows...Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.1 ProfessionalIntel 624 MHz processorUMTS (850/1900/2100MHz) and GSM/GPRS/EDGE (quad-band, 850/900/1800/1900 MHz)256MB ROM / 128MB RAM16GB internal storage5” 640x480 VGA screenDetachable QWERTY keyboard with haptic feedbackGPSWireless LAN: WiFi 802.11b/gBluetooth 2.03 Mega Pixel Camera with Auto FocusFront VGA CameraHigh power LED for camera flash2100mAh batteryGot questions? Post them here! The device is currently running pre-release software, so bear this in mind when asking questions. A full review will follow when I have the final ROM, after which I will be giving the X7510 away in a forthcoming competition! :( P Hey thanks Paul I am so looking forward to your full hands on review. I know you will impliment many tweaks to get the most out of the device and push it to the outer limits of perfection. I really would love to have this thing in my pocket to my laptop in the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 So what is this supposed to do that I can't do already with my Asus Eee and Vario II? Just because a company CAN make something doesn't nec. mean that they SHOULD. :D It can fit in your pocket :o (just) :( P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l3v5y Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I have a few questions! 1) What is battery life like? I'm guessing that'll change with the ROM, but a basic idea of it would be nice... 2) Is any of the 16GB storage taken up (aside from space lost after formatting it)? And, does what's there stay after a hard reset (like a memory card) or go like the internal memory? Detachable QWERTY keyboard with haptic feedback 3) How "haptic" is it? 4) Is the camera any good? Other things *cough*Kaiser*cough* have a nice camera in theory... 5 & 6) The device is currently running pre-release software, so bear this in mind when asking questions. A full review will follow when I have the final ROM, after which I will be giving the X7510 away in a forthcoming competition! :( Any idea of how long away the release ROM is? and, what kind of competition? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l3v5y Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 It can fit in your pocket :( (just) :D P How big are your pockets? :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 1) What is battery life like? I'm guessing that'll change with the ROM, but a basic idea of it would be nice... Hard to say right now with this prerelease ROM. Is any of the 16GB storage taken up (aside from space lost after formatting it)? And, does what's there stay after a hard reset (like a memory card) or go like the internal memory? None taken, and you can choose whether it stays or is wiped with a reset. How "haptic" is it? Erm, how do you mean? Completely haptic, in that there is no physical key movement? Is the camera any good? Other things *cough*Kaiser*cough* have a nice camera in theory... Seems OK, i'll take some sample pics. Any idea of how long away the release ROM is? and, what kind of competition? :D Not long. It'll be a competition along the lines of 'install apptodate and a supporting application' :( P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l3v5y Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Erm, how do you mean? Completely haptic, in that there is no physical key movement? I was wondering how much feedback there was (if any) from the keys... Not my best English, but I have two weeks to learn to write essays before that exam... Seems OK, i'll take some sample pics. Excellent... Not long. It'll be a competition along the lines of 'install apptodate and a supporting application' :D P This is looking more and more attractive as a device... As a demo of ATD: Thanks for the info!ATD.BMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 The feedback is good, it has a kinda piezo vibratey-beep, it's a lot better than I expected TBH! P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rameses Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 ....but at the recent Mobius event in Seattle HTC were kind enough to give all attendees the follow up device you see here, the X7510.... I was going to make some comment about how lucky your are and why it's not fair you seem to get all the goodies :D but then I read this bit The device is currently running pre-release software, so bear this in mind when asking questions. A full review will follow when I have the final ROM, after which I will be giving the X7510 away in a forthcoming competition! biggrin.gif and thought cool, what a gent! I hope Plus members will get double competition entries as usual. Fingers crossed etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Yes, indeed, as always! :D I'm gonna round up some other bits n bobs I have kicking around and give them away too. Hopefully as it's an AppToDate comp we can get some of the ATD supporters to donate software. Stay tuned :( P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Confucious Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 AP 4 was based on this ROM and has been improved with AP5 Have you tried AP5 on it? would the keyboard work with the Athena? the lack of hardware buttons make it not worth upgrading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l3v5y Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I have another Q! Is the GPS plain GPS or aGPS, and what is the time to find a signal/position like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVallat Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Can the SIM be changed without removing the battery? Where does the MiniSD card go? How quick is it to rotate the screen? Other than the keyboard, does it have any hard-buttons? On power off/on, does it disconnect and reconnect the internal 16Gb storage (like a storage card), or does it behave more like main memory? I've noticed some apps running from Storage can crash out if my HTC Universal is turned off and on again while running. How readable is the screen in bright daylight compared to, say, the Universal? (Is it transflective?) Thanks for these informative threads! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shootydogthing Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Is the haptic feedback localised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xorangefirex Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 I really dont know what you could use the device for, but it could definitely have its uses. No doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest REem Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Paul, is it possible to provide us with a screenshot of pocket informant 8 on the x7510 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Can the SIM be changed without removing the battery? No... Where does the MiniSD card go? Next to the SIM. How quick is it to rotate the screen? Seems pretty speedy? Other than the keyboard, does it have any hard-buttons? Yeah, it has a couple of buttons but less than the original advantage! On power off/on, does it disconnect and reconnect the internal 16Gb storage (like a storage card), or does it behave more like main memory? I've noticed some apps running from Storage can crash out if my HTC Universal is turned off and on again while running. It's like a 'Storage Card'. How readable is the screen in bright daylight compared to, say, the Universal? (Is it transflective?) I'll give it a go and let you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Is the haptic feedback localised? How do I tell? I'm no haptic expert! :D P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sonicr360 Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 (edited) I think I have to go with the original poster - what is the point of this device, when the whole original concept of WM was that..... mobile and small portability. To me, its trying to become a much more mini laptop.... why? why have a Mini laptop running a cut down version of WM, when you could probably find a small portable light laptop on eBay for less than this (ie: Sony Viao for £200 - £300 used). Better still, saw this the other day in PC World.... http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/906227 Ok not windows, but if you really want some sort of full blown user ability laptop, this seems pretty good. But this reminds me of my own ZX81 keyboard layout (the membrane feature I called it!). Ok may do some good things.... but from a user point, who has a TyTn II, I cannot see this device fitting into a pocket or clipping onto my jean belt. Personally unimpressed - Sometimes you have to look beyond the initial "look and gadget" feel and then work out if this device can be used as an everyday device. For me, sadly not. For others... .take your choice.... £656 quoted by Paul - terrible price, overprice product for what it does! Much more decent, light weight laptops out there and you could even get a SIM FREE phone with change :D Edited May 27, 2008 by Sonicr360 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVallat Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 A few people are asking what the point of this product is, so I thought it might be of interest to explain what it's point for me is. My primary usage of this device will be indoors, connected through my home WiFi. To meet my requirements for this usage it must be small enough to place in easy reach of the sofa or armchair, and not get in the way of the remote controls, books and other assorted bits and pieces that share that spot. A laptop (EeePC: 225x164x35) would be too big, although a Shift (207x129x25) might *just* about do the job. The X7510 is 133x98x16 (or x20 including keyboard), taking up significantly less valuable chair-side space. I will be using this device for casual internet browsing, and therefore require a screen that is not too uncomfortable to read. VGA is a rock-bottom basic requirement, and having the larger physical dimensions afforded by the X7510 is helpful. A more pocketable device like the TyTn II can't compare. A tablet form-factor here is also a big advantage, as is having a keyboard available for the occasions in which more than just a URL or two needs to be typed in. The laptop form-factor is not really appropriate, and not having a finger-operable touch screen would also be a massive disadvantage. Other internet-tablet devices are available, but as I also want to use this for checking email, and perhaps the occasional writing of brief replies, that rules out most of the cheaper browsing-only devices available. I also want my calendaring integrated (and synchable), and be able to play audio and video files (directly from my network share, no transcoding or other trickyness), which rules out all the others. Having some casual games is a bonus, and other little utilities and things always come in helpful - so having a non-standard OS without the large library of third party software available for Windows Mobile is a big disadvantage. Finally, I want to be able to take it with me when travelling (in a bag is fine, it doesn't have to actually fit in a pocket as I'm not carrying it around all the time) to be able to access my calendar, email, and other stored information while on the move. WiFi only solutions are ruled out. I may also use the GPS functionality, depending on how usable I find it. What it will notably not be used for is voice calls, although with appropriate wireless headset (LG Style-I would be interesting here) I suppose it could be done, in a pinch. This will probably not be anyone's primary mobile phone to carry around with them, it is clearly unsuitable for the purpose. Finally, for this form factor, I *prefer* Windows Mobile to a desktop OS. Vista is simply not designed for this use case. You can probably more or less get it to do what you need, if you put the effort in, but Windows Mobile is designed specifically to be used at this sort of size and processing power. For a start, when I turn it on, it is immediately on without delay. Synching with a desktop is explicitly supported, and third-party software available for it is also designed to work with a portable, low-res, low-power device, with a touch screen, operated by a finger. Try finding Vista software designed with those considerations in mind. Power consumption, and therefore battery life can't be compared with a Desktop OS device, and I certainly don't want any fans whiring in the thing! That said, the X7510 is still not ideal; it is a bit too expensive, and the screen should have a higher resolution than 640x480 for that physical size. Swapping the SIM without needing to reboot would be very nice to have (in case you just have the one, rather than one data and one voice SIM). From what Paul said, it sounds like you need to remove the battery to change the miniSD card too, which makes it pretty much useless. I hope this helps people who were wondering who would want such a device, and what they would want it for. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sonicr360 Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 (edited) Alex Have to say that has to be the WORSE reply I have ever heard or even read in my life ! Either the owner is completely lazy, or you have forgotten one vital thing about this piece of hardware.... its not JUST designed for indoors. :D Joking of course Alex... dont know you and dont claim you are lazy :( If you feel £600+ is worth purchasing, then I can honestly say you are wasting your money. To compare this against a VISTA laptoip is a poor, poor show. Why do that?? Its not even a fair argument :o A second hand laptop with XP would be ten times better than this ! Run all your apps, and its good to go! My old Sony Viao is great - ok runs XP, all office apps, Bluetooth, 3G card, Wi-fi... oh hell... guess what... no phone! Not a problem with the TyTn II with me!! Yes that fits in my pocket and the Sony comes in a sleak small case! Heck, do you know what Alex.... this is what I am going to say to those interested .... "BUY IT!! Just buy the device now, right now"! Then come back in 6 months time, and then tell us if it really, really does meet your full "in house" requirments ! But as you clearly said, its expensive, large, remove battery to swap a card out.... that was my point Alex.... buy a slim line laptop for £300+, use the extra money for your Holiday :lol: or even better a TyTn II ! Does not even need to be OTT on the tech front :lol: Maybe its me, but I just dont see this to be a device that can be used on the go, and even in the house... As you stated Alex "What it will notably not be used for is voice calls"..... lol an expensive phone for not using the phone eh? Simon P.S. Should indicate that at no point is this post a direct insult at you, but on the general post itself :lol: Thanks for reading, and remember, NO OFFENCE ok !:lol: Edited May 27, 2008 by Sonicr360 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest battletank Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 (edited) Alex - I had a very similar need to you. I went for the (cough) Nokia N810 internet tablet. It fulfills all the criteria you specify plus comes in a prettier, smaller package than this behemoth - As a veteran of the original model, I'm aware that size is everything and the Advantage rapidly becomes an inconvenience. The Nokia also has a better-than VGA widescreen, and a *full* *complete* web browser with flash and ajax support. It fails in only one respect; it does not have built in HSDPA connectivity. For me though, this is an acceptable tradeoff, as it happily connects to the Bluetooth PAN on my Touch Dual for on-the-go broadband, plus it ensures battery life of 'forever' in standby mode and that's good enough for me. Oh, and you could buy two of them for the price of this latest HTC phone. Having said all that, I'd still be very happy to win one! Edited May 27, 2008 by battletank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sonicr360 Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Battletank, yes you could buy 2 at this cost. Maybe its me, I guess not every device is going to be to everyones liking, but would be very interested to see who opts for it ! At this moment in time, the TyTn II has done well to stay in my ownership for the past 8 months. Like Paul, its nice to have a change.... but there is nothing out there that really gets me thinking that this next gen device "is the one" to have ! Simon :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVallat Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 (edited) Sorry you thought my previous post was so poor. Perhaps I can clarify a couple of points you don't seem to have understood, though. its not JUST designed for indoors Perhaps not, but that's where it's going to get the vast majority of its use, for me. I would actually rather suspect that it was designed for indoor use, with outdoor use a secondary concern - but I can't claim to know exactly what the designers had in mind. To compare this against a VISTA laptoip is a poor, poor show. Why do that?? Its not even a fair argument The comparable alternatives available running a Desktop OS all run Vista. The Shift, the UX1XN, the OQO, etc. I believe the Eee PC can be made to run either Linux or XP, but the same argument stands for running XP - it is simply not designed for the small form factor low-power, low-resolution touchscreen portable in the same way that Windows Mobile is. It will be interesting to see how the Linux mobile OS develops, but as far as I can tell, it isn't yet mainstream. What it comes down to is that I do not want to run all my Desktop apps on a portable device, I have a different set of requirements. Making voice calls isn't one of them, so saying get a laptop and a phone fails to address any of them. "BUY IT!! Just buy the device now, right now"! Then come back in 6 months time, and then tell us if it really, really does meet your full "in house" requirments. I intend to. 6 months is rather a long time, but if I remember to I'll post some long term experiences here. If I don't, someone else might. buy a slim line laptop for £300+, use the extra money for [...] a TyTn II! Again, doesn't really help. I'd then have a laptop that's too big, too short battery life, too slow to boot, and running an inappropriate OS, and I'd also have a phone that is too small to use comfortably for browsing, underpowered and with a less usable keyboard - while still being larger than I would like to carry around with me in my pocket all the time. I already have a phone for carrying in my pocket. It isn't a PDA, it is just for voice calls, and its number one requirement is size. (I have a Samsung M300) lol an expensive phone for not using the phone eh? It is more expensive than it should be, yes. But it isn't an "expensive phone", as it's clearly not intended to be used as a primary phone. Alex - I had a very similar need to you. I went for the (cough) Nokia N810 internet tablet...I did very seriously consider the N810. If it had run Windows Mobile I'd have probably bought it, but unfortunately it wasn't up to the job. I need something with synchable calendar, contacts, tasks, and other organisational information, and the N810 just doesn't do this. Together with not having mobile connectivity, this was enough to rule it out for me. It was a shame, as I did like the thing otherwise. Edited May 27, 2008 by AlexVallat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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