205 replies to this topic

[Tylwith]

tacchan23, on Dec 3 2009, 21:16, said:

that's on wm6.1 right?
I can't manage to get past 4 running apps°_°

yes in 6.1 on 6.5 only manage up to 10

[tacchan23]

Tylwith, on Dec 3 2009, 14:20, said:

yes in 6.1 on 6.5 only manage up to 10

still better than my 4

[skoda60]

Tylwith, on Dec 3 2009, 20:46, said:

i manage to go down to 32mb left with some registry tweaking but i nerver mangage to have nore than 14 application running a one time

Yesterday I (WM6.1) also run down the memory to about 30mb, I can't remember how many program were running. But it was not stable, It will kill the background apps any time because I experience it.

[toppwill]

pbasiros, on Dec 3 2009, 00:19, said:

Toppwill said about a registry key ProgramMem. I google it and found the following:

Trying to make the best of both worlds, I decided that perhaps the MPx220 is worth taking another look at if the memory management issue could be resolved. After all, with Media Works, I want to keep Agile Messenger open all day to receive IMs, while using the phone, surfing, playing games, etc.

Then, it dawned on me - why is the Audiovox SMT5600 with an apparently older revision of WM2K3 running things better than the newer MPx220?

A couple of registry keys.

MPx220:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Shell\LowMem ]
"ResetDivision"=dword:1
"ProgramMem"=dword:32

SMT5600:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Shell\LowMem ]
"ResetDivision"=dword:0
"ProgramMem"=dword:96

After forcing in the SMT5600 settings on the MPx220, I ran Agile Messenger and connected. Then, I ran Internet Explorer. Launched Agile again, and same copy of Agile still came back, still connected. Launched MSN Messenger. Launched Agile again, still accessible and running. Launched Tasks, Contacts, Calendar, File Manager, Resource Management. Returned to Agile Messenger, still running! With all these programs running simultaneously, Agile Messenger is still active and connected!

With the original registry settings, Agile Messenger would get lost in the memory and a new instance of Agile Messenger would launch, and not be able to connect because the original copy was still connected.

Also found:


HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Shell\LowMem\ProgramMem

Change the value to 64 or 96 whichever give you the best performance.

This will increase the affectiveness of how Windows uses and manages memory of open programs.
It changes how Windows closes programs, as you know when you back out of a program (using the end key) the program will continue running and if you don't use it after a certian amount of time, windows will close it...well this setting shortens the time that it will leave a program open when not in use. Now this doesn't affect all programs like ArcSoft (caller id program on the MPx 220) Pocket Outlook ( the email part, for when you have it set up to check for new messages at a set interval) and other programs.

I think you should give it a try...you may or may not notice any changes. It may help your situation...may not you will have to try and see. I did it and it improved memory management IMHO and kept Agile Messenger from closing so quickly in the background (contradicts what I sayed above but that is what happends, its a memory management so I guess it will descide which should stay open longer and which should be closed faster....)

IN my O2
"ResetDivision"=dword:0
"ProgramMem"=dword:17

Thanks for finding this info - was a bit ushed for time but thought I should at least share what I had found in reg.
And to everyone else for testing - works fine me me too :-)
Wonder if we can get this added to ROMs?
Or fed back to Secany / SS
Or at least added to tacchan's tweaks
:-)

Edited by toppwill, 04 December 2009 - 08:17 AM.

[tacchan23]

toppwill, on Dec 4 2009, 09:14, said:

Or at least added to tacchan's tweaks

It's not working at all for me...
Maybe it depends anyway on how much free ram you have?

[toppwill]

tacchan23, on Dec 4 2009, 21:32, said:

It's not working at all for me...
Maybe it depends anyway on how much free ram you have?

I am on Secany's ROM:
PDA: I8000NXXIJ1

apps running faster and more of them

not sure where you can see how much free RAM you have?

[junalmeida]

I have this problem too, i gonna try changing ProgramMem from 17 to 96.

[elementalfusion]

The registry setting works i think, I've tried even 128 and 256. Seems like anything above 128 doesn't have any difference. Before changing the value, I could open only like 4 apps at a time. Now with the value set to 128, I can open about 8 applications before some of them are closed automatically.

[junalmeida]

On my very old HTC Touch ELF, even with a winmo 6.5 rom, it does not close apps when memory is getting low. Instead, it asks me to choose an app to close. So. I believe that there is a registry setting to be changed or a samsung service to be stopped to achieve this.

If you got memMaid, you can see a list of current running services. I tried to stop TaskMon but system becomes unresponsive. Anyone knows the purpose of each service running. Some of those have no description neither a suggestive name.

Here are the list of services registered:
TaskMon - ??
SmiSensor - Samsung Sensors SDK
Windows Live - MSN
LaunchDlls - ???
MotionAgent - Rotate Apps?
MassStorageDetector - ?? May I plug a pendrive?
BTIconSvc - Somewhat related with Bluetooth
BTFTPAutoMount - Bluetooth
KWBPP - ??????????
RefreshDlg - ???????
BthAsPlugin - Bluetooth?
AVCTRL - Audio and Video?
BTAGSVC - Another one related with bluetooth.
SoftwareDisable - ? Disable what and why?
SWMGMTSERVICE - ? Software Management Service
CERTENROLL - Netowrk Enrolling.
SNAPI -?
LASSD - ?
credsvc - ?
MyPhoneService - Microsoft My Phone. OK
BTHIDSVC - BLuetooth Human Interface Driver
SqmUpload - ?

[Aurelius]

I don't know the purpose of those services but there is an old trick with SK Tools to free some memory (from times of PDAs without the phone).
You can swich off Input Methods which you are not using.
I use only Fingered Keyboard so I swiched off Transcriber, Block Recognising and so on.
For me this old trick still works.

Edited by Aurelius, 23 January 2010 - 10:11 PM.

[leshats]

I think I have found a solution for auto closing programs problem. First I upgraded firmware to JB1 from Secany.
And I could not have more then two programs running.
And then I removed these links from StartUp:

AutoRotation.lnk - I do not like autorotation and setup button for this. BTW autorotation still works in Opera and Samsung video player. How can I turn it off?
CHomeManager.lnk - I do not know for sure what is this program for.
LinkMgr.lnk - I use MortButtons instead of Samsung Main Menu.
PlayerAutoUpdate.lnk
poutlook.lnk
ScreenCapture.lnk - This program makes previews for Samsung Task Switcher. I use ArkSwitch instead.

I did not touch
HKLM\System\OOM
cbLow
cbVlow
cpLow
cpVlow
as default values look reasonable.

And now I can have up to eight (8) applications running. Including even Opera and Skype and ICQ together.
So I can conclude that autoclosing problem is in number of running processes limit of WM 6.5 (max 32) and not in memory shortage. At least in JB1 firmware.

[Rapid81]

leshats, on Feb 15 2010, 12:09, said:

CHomeManager.lnk - I do not know for sure what is this program for.
PlayerAutoUpdate.lnk

PlayerAutoUpdate.lnk is responsible for the update of the media player libraries after a soft reset
CHomeManager.lnk is for today screen (titanium)

I was removed these:
CHomeManager.lnk
LinkMgr.exe
PlayerAutoUpdate.lnk
poutlook.lnk
ScreenCapture.lnk

Now I have 66MB free RAM after soft reset, instead of 55 before with JB1.
I'm using TouchFlo3d 1.3, and nothing else.

Edited by Rapid81, 15 February 2010 - 05:53 PM.

[dwallersv]

leshats, on Feb 15 2010, 03:09, said:

I think I have found a solution for auto closing programs problem. First I upgraded firmware to JB1 from Secany.
And I could not have more then two programs running.
And then I removed these links from StartUp:

AutoRotation.lnk - I do not like autorotation and setup button for this. BTW autorotation still works in Opera and Samsung video player. How can I turn it off?
CHomeManager.lnk - I do not know for sure what is this program for.
LinkMgr.lnk - I use MortButtons instead of Samsung Main Menu.
PlayerAutoUpdate.lnk
poutlook.lnk
ScreenCapture.lnk - This program makes previews for Samsung Task Switcher. I use ArkSwitch instead.

AutoRotation.lnk? Did you mean RotationSupport.lnk? I don't have the former, and I'm guessing that's there from installing the AutoRotation app developed by one of our fellow members.

I would like to get rid of RotationSupport.lnk (and the resident process) if I don't need it... I use manual rotation via a button.

I'll try disabling it and report back.

How about RetrySMSDaemon? Do we really need that? My intuition is that all this does is keep retrying to send SMS in the background if failure on initial attempt to send. I can live without that automation, as I can't remember the last time I had an SMS not go out on the first try, and if it doesn't, it will just sit in your outbox until you try to send it again manually.

I'd rather not lose the automation feature, but prioritized against running all sorts of other stuff that I do use a lot and care about, this is not important.

Anyone know?

Edited by dwallersv, 15 February 2010 - 06:57 PM.

[dwallersv]

RotationSupport.lnk

Okay, just did some quick testing, and it looks pretty certain that all this does is provide autorotation for certain apps. I suspect they are the apps listed in the registry (can't remember the location).

Disabling this service kills all autorotation. Opera no longer rotates by itself, the shell, etc.

Manual rotation via a button still works the same, and even seems to be a bit faster.

Finally, this is a net plus for me, because it was annoying to have some apps rotate when I didn't want them to, particularly opera.

[leshats]

In my phone (i8000 JB1 firmware) link AutoRotation.lnk points to \Windows\RotationSupport.exe. I removed this link from StartUp and there is no RotationSupport.exe process running. But autorotation in Opera and samsung player still works. So I can not turn autorotation off.

Edited by leshats, 15 February 2010 - 11:37 PM.

[CF Chong]

leshats, on Feb 15 2010, 19:09, said:

I think I have found a solution for auto closing programs problem. First I upgraded firmware to JB1 from Secany.
And I could not have more then two programs running.
And then I removed these links from StartUp:

AutoRotation.lnk - I do not like autorotation and setup button for this. BTW autorotation still works in Opera and Samsung video player. How can I turn it off?
CHomeManager.lnk - I do not know for sure what is this program for.
LinkMgr.lnk - I use MortButtons instead of Samsung Main Menu.
PlayerAutoUpdate.lnk
poutlook.lnk
ScreenCapture.lnk - This program makes previews for Samsung Task Switcher. I use ArkSwitch instead.

I did not touch
HKLM\System\OOM
cbLow
cbVlow
cpLow
cpVlow
as default values look reasonable.

And now I can have up to eight (8) applications running. Including even Opera and Skype and ICQ together.
So I can conclude that autoclosing problem is in number of running processes limit of WM 6.5 (max 32) and not in memory shortage. At least in JB1 firmware.

On JB1, I am still having programs been auto closed when they are in the background if the memory falls below 40MB. If OOM is tweaked, programs in the background will auto close when memory falls below 30MB.

On soft reset, the memory is above 70MB (disabled a number of startup programs/services/plugins). Launching multiple programs is not an issue. The problem starts when over time, gwes.exe will grow larger and larger and free memory will get lesser and lesser. Then background programs will start to auto close. It will reach a point where only one program can be executed. The other program not in the foreground will not survive. A soft reset is required to start the cycle all over again. How long the cycle is will depend on what programs are commonly use and how often these programs are opened and closed.

When a program is started, gwes.exe will grow a bit. When the program is closed, chances are gwes.exe will not release the same amount that it gained earlier. Opening and closing the same program many times will make gwes.exe larger and larger. If a program is needed often, dismissing it to the background instead of closing it when not in use will help delay the growth of gwes.exe.

Sorry to say that this is the first winmo phone that I have that is having this problem. My previous were Dopods and HTCs.

Edit:
The attachment shows the system having only 39MB of free memory although hardly any program is running at the time. Over the day, I have used the phone for calls, smses, emails, rss, internet surfing, MSN, etc...now it has reached a point where a soft reset is required. 72MB of memory has already been used by the main system services. I am no longer able to run my pRSSReader and Internet Explorer without the other closing when swapped to the background.

 Processes.JPG   43.72K   65 downloads

Edited by CF Chong, 17 February 2010 - 04:43 PM.

[leshats]

CF Chong, on Feb 17 2010, 18:22, said:

The attachment shows the system having only 39MB of free memory although hardly any program is running at the time. Over the day, I have used the phone for calls, smses, emails, rss, internet surfing, MSN, etc...now it has reached a point where a soft reset is required. 72MB of memory has already been used by the main system services. I am no longer able to run my pRSSReader and Internet Explorer without the other closing when swapped to the background.

Windows has memory leaks. This is true and this is sad. Doing soft reset once a week is a common practice for me with Windows Mobile. And Windows desktop too btw.
But so dramatically leeks that you describe can be occasioned by some third party software. I can remember such problems with SPB Weather, SBP Pocket Plus etc. May be you can try to uninstall suspicious programs one by one.

Edited by leshats, 17 February 2010 - 10:02 PM.

[CF Chong]

leshats, on Feb 18 2010, 06:02, said:

Windows has memory leaks. This is true and this is sad. Doing soft reset once a week is a common practice for me with Windows Mobile. And Windows desktop too btw.
But so dramatically leeks that you describe can be occasioned by some third party software. I can remember such problems with SPB Weather, SBP Pocket Plus etc. May be you can try to uninstall suspicious programs one by one.

That suspicious program would be pRSSReader. I use it most of the time...drawing news from 47 feeds. For me, this is still the best rss program...unfortunately, it is been abandoned...sigh...

My earlier post was to highlight that the amount of free memory did play a part in the auto closing of background programs and it is only happening on the i8000. My TyTNII with just 128MB does not suffer from this issue although it is running the same 3rd parties programs.

[johnchan]

CF Chong, on Feb 18 2010, 00:22, said:

On JB1, I am still having programs been auto closed when they are in the background if the memory falls below 40MB. If OOM is tweaked, programs in the background will auto close when memory falls below 30MB.

On soft reset, the memory is above 70MB (disabled a number of startup programs/services/plugins). Launching multiple programs is not an issue. The problem starts when over time, gwes.exe will grow larger and larger and free memory will get lesser and lesser. Then background programs will start to auto close. It will reach a point where only one program can be executed. The other program not in the foreground will not survive. A soft reset is required to start the cycle all over again. How long the cycle is will depend on what programs are commonly use and how often these programs are opened and closed.

When a program is started, gwes.exe will grow a bit. When the program is closed, chances are gwes.exe will not release the same amount that it gained earlier. Opening and closing the same program many times will make gwes.exe larger and larger. If a program is needed often, dismissing it to the background instead of closing it when not in use will help delay the growth of gwes.exe.

Sorry to say that this is the first winmo phone that I have that is having this problem. My previous were Dopods and HTCs.

Edit:
The attachment shows the system having only 39MB of free memory although hardly any program is running at the time. Over the day, I have used the phone for calls, smses, emails, rss, internet surfing, MSN, etc...now it has reached a point where a soft reset is required. 72MB of memory has already been used by the main system services. I am no longer able to run my pRSSReader and Internet Explorer without the other closing when swapped to the background.

Processes.JPG

I know exactly what you are talking about. And I HIGHLY doubt this is a Windows Mobile OS memory leak... I had other phones before, HTC, SEX1, and NONE of them leak memory like this.

After a reboot, I can run about 6 programs, Opera, SMS/Messaging, Navizon, Google Maps, and a few apps like that. However, after JUST ONE DAY, if I start Opera, almost everything else closes.


The BEST fun I have... which I wanted to throw the O2 out of my car, was when I was looking for a restaurant. I opened Opera and then Googled the restaurant number, called them, then I inputted their address into Google Maps, but could not find the street name. So I wanted to switch back to Opera to call them again... BUT OPERA WAS AUTO-CLOSED.

So I start Opera again, call them, got a nearby street, and want to switch to Google Maps, BUT GOOGLE MAPS IS AUTO-CLOSED.

So I restart Google Maps, wait for it to get GPS fix again... hai.

Then I want to SMS to someone, tell them I will arrive shortly... after sending the SMS, GOOGLE MAPS FREAKING AUTO-CLOSED AGAIN.


Unbelievable. I FEEL LIKE SMASHING SAMSUNG O2.


On the other hand, I found that some apps almost NEVER GET KILLED. For example, I could be running the Samsung Media Player the whole time, and it is almost NEVER CLOSED. Same for the Samsung SMS/Messaging app... it is rarely closed.

So I am guessing there is something that is giving these Samsung apps high priority, and killing everything else like Google, Opera, etc.



But the above was one time I wanted to just throw the O2 out the Window. From now on, if I want to use the O2 in the car, I will prepare myself by rebooting the phone before I leave home, then I can be sure it won't kill apps while I'm driving the car. Imagine how dangerous it was that day... and how annoying.

Edited by johnchan, 18 February 2010 - 08:26 AM.

[Ruud S]

For me, Opera Mobile 10 beta 3 (but previously also beta 2) seems to be part of the auto-close problem because it uses a lot of memory. Even though the task manager shows that the Opera process is only using a few MB of RAM, free program memory goes down by tens of MB (usually down to around 20MB). On the other hand, on my Tytn II with less memory I never noticed programs auto-closing, even when running Opera.

I've applied the various tweaks mentioned in this and other threads, and they seem to help only a little or not at all. If I remember correctly, these are the tweaks I applied:

• HKLM\System\GDI\GLYPHCACHE: Delete limit0 entry
  
• HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Shell\LowMem: Set ProgramMem to 96
  
• HKLM\System\OOM: Set cbLow and cbVLow to 32768, cpLow and cpVLow to 16
  
• Disabled startup entries CHomeManager, LinkMgr, PlayerAutoUpdater and SendMTMSG (moved them from Windows\Startup to a new Windows\Startup2 folder)

However, in this and other threads, people seem to suggest that the Samsung TaskMon service may actually cause the auto-close problem. Using MemMaid I've set this service to Manual Start (as other people suggested killing this service once it is running will make the device unstable) and restarted my device.

With this service disabled, I've been able to run up to 10 programs, including Opera with 7 tabs open and some other programs that take quite a lot of memory. I currently have 12.25MB free RAM, but I've seen it as low as 5MB. I cannot seem to run more than 10 applications; when I start an eleventh program another program is closed independently of the amount of free memory. So this is probably the limit in the number of processes.

I haven't done enough testing yet for any conclusive results, but you may want to try this out yourself. Please note that I don't know the purpose of the TaskMan service; disabling it may have some unwanted side effects so do this at your own risk. So far I haven't encountered any of the problems mentioned in other threads (screen not turning off, and slide function of keyboard no longer working is not applicable to the i8000).

Maybe a programmer can test whether applications now receive a WM_HIBERNATE message in low memory conditions instead of a WM_CLOSE message with the TaskMon service disabled?

BTW I'm running the JB1 ROM.