34 replies to this topic

[ED2O9]

Before I start, PLEASE understand that I'm not taking a shot at the chefs or their accomplishments in any way.  Without asking for a cent, they've busted their butts cooking ROMs that give our devices the features and functionality that the manufacturers and their well-payed engineers didn't (or couldn't).  I'm EXTREMELY grateful to guys like AMDZero, SteelReign, Ninja4hire and Yardi4life.
With that being said, I have to say that I'm mystified by the attention given to Sense.  As a front-end on the right device, Sense is outstanding and is a huge improvement over TouchWiz (IMHO).  So, when I noticed several ROMs appearing with Sense 2.5 cooked in, I was as enthusiastic as everyone else.  When I started running into frequent lock-ups (due to more than a few experimental software installations and tweaks) I opted to flash to a new Sense ROM.  Right out of the box, I was a bit surprised at how laggy it was.  Even with over-clocking and most of the visual fluff disabled, there was a noticeable delay in a lot of the functions, while the SMS and email interface was frustratingly slow.  After a couple days, of trying to tweak it to my liking, I sadly disabled Sense and installed SPB shell.  Since then, I've reflashed to a base ROM to free up more RAM, and I'm happy with the results.
My question is:  Is there possibly something wrong with my O2, or is Sense 2.5 laggy on everyone elses?  If so, why do people put up with the known issues when there are alternatives like SPB shell and iPhoneToday?  Aside from a slow reload on the icons (which I've heard is due to too many calendar entries), SPB shells runs silky smooth on my O2 without overclocking, is extremely customizable and (from what I could see) has the same RAM load as Sense.  One downside is the cost, but considering how much we've spent on our Omnias, $30 isn't a deal-breaker. iPhoneToday is free, has a ton of add-ons, and runs extremely fast with barely any RAM overhead.  I've had the thing opening and closing multiple apps for days, and CleanRAM brings it back to around 65MB.
Again... I'm in awe of the chefs and their ability to port something as complex as Sense 2.5 onto a Samsung device. It speaks volumes about their knowledge and tenacity.  I just have to question "Why"?  I have to believe that if most of us bought a phone with Sense functioning as it does with the custom ROMs, it would be returned the same day.  I know we've all invested in a phone which came from the seller stuffed to the gills with crap-ware and running a front-end that was a jumbled mess, and in the ongoing quest to find the perfect interface, we'll have to try a bunch of options to find one that's the best fit for our individual needs.  I'm curious as to why people prefer Sense over the options I've mentioned.  I'm not trying to me a smart-ass.  I'd honestly like to know, because I feel like I'm missing something.

Edited by ED2O9, 06 August 2010 - 03:01 PM.

[Omega Ra]

ED2O9, on Aug 6 2010, 10:51, said:

Before I start, PLEASE understand that I'm not taking a shot at the chefs or their accomplishments in any way.  Without asking for a cent, they've busted their butts cooking ROMs that give our devices the features and functionality that the manufacturers and their well-payed engineers didn't (or couldn't).  I'm EXTREMELY grateful to guys like AMDZero, SteelReign, Ninja4hire and Yardi4life.
With that being said, I have to say that I'm mystified by the attention given to Sense.  As a front-end on the right device, Sense is outstanding and is a huge improvement over TouchWiz (IMHO).  So, when I noticed several ROMs appearing with Sense 2.5 cooked in, I was as enthusiastic as everyone else.  When I started running into frequent lock-ups (due to more than a few experimental software installations and tweaks) I opted to flash to a new Sense ROM.  Right out of the box, I was a bit surprised at how laggy it was.  Even with over-clocking and most of the visual fluff disabled, there was a noticeable delay in a lot of the functions, while the SMS and email interface was frustratingly slow.  After a couple days, of trying to tweak it to my liking, I sadly disabled Sense and installed SPB shell.  Since then, I've reflashed to a base ROM to free up more RAM, and I'm happy with the results.
My question is:  Is there possibly something wrong with my O2, or is Sense 2.5 laggy on everyone elses?  If so, why do people put up with the known issues when there are alternatives like SPB shell and iPhoneToday?  Aside from a slow reload on the icons (which I've heard is due to too many calendar entries), SPB shells runs silky smooth on my O2 without overclocking, is extremely customizable and (from what I could see) has the same RAM load as Sense.  One downside is the cost, but considering how much we've spent on our Omnias, $30 isn't a deal-breaker. iPhoneToday is free, has a ton of add-ons, and runs extremely fast with barely any RAM overhead.  I've had the thing opening and closing multiple apps for days, and CleanRAM brings it back to around 65MB.
Again... I'm in awe of the chefs and their ability to port something as complex as Sense 2.5 onto a Samsung device. It speaks volumes about their knowledge and tenacity.  I just have to question "Why"?  I have to believe that if most of us bought a phone with Sense functioning as it does with the custom ROMs, it would be returned the same day.  I know we've all invested in a phone which came from the seller stuffed to the gills with crap-ware and running a front-end that was a jumbled mess, and in the ongoing quest to find the perfect interface, we'll have to try a bunch of options to find one that's the best fit for our individual needs.  I'm curious as to why people prefer Sense over the options I've mentioned.  I'm not trying to me a smart-ass.  I'd honestly like to know, because I feel like I'm missing something.

Well Sense wasn't intended to run on our devices. When I was running Steel's Sense it wasn't too bad as far as lag was concerned, but it was a bit, and the RAM usage was bad, so I am now running ZeroStock and loving it. I like Sense and think it is okay, but no matter how many different UI's I try, (sense, MS, Throttlelauncher with WP7) I always end up back with Titanium. I like my interface simple, and though sense seems like a good idea, it is just too much of a resource hog for me and I too don't know why everyone loves it so much, but of course I say the same thing about Mobile Shell.

[ED2O9]

From what I can gather, it seems like our Omnia 2 has (or had...) the best hardware around.  The big AMOLED screen combined with an outstanding camera was a huge selling point for me.  A lot of people think that Sense is the ultimate front-end, so it would seem like a match made in heaven to run it on an O2.  I realize that these ROMs are a work in progress, and with each revision comes more improvements.  Hopefully, the tweaks and updates will get it to the point were it's as close to lag free as possible.  It might be already there... I'm just too impatient recognize it.

[Omega Ra]

ED2O9, on Aug 6 2010, 11:16, said:

From what I can gather, it seems like our Omnia 2 has (or had...) the best hardware around.  The big AMOLED screen combined with an outstanding camera was a huge selling point for me.  A lot of people think that Sense is the ultimate front-end, so it would seem like a match made in heaven to run it on an O2.  I realize that these ROMs are a work in progress, and with each revision comes more improvements.  Hopefully, the tweaks and updates will get it to the point were it's as close to lag free as possible.  It might be already there... I'm just too impatient recognize it.

yeah well the HD2 (what this is supposed to run on) Has a 1 Ghz snapdragon, ours is only 800Mhz. plus the HD2 has 512mb RAM, we only have 208(supposedly)

[bmt10]

I'm not really a fan of sense either...but in my experience it's the "smoothest" running feature packed home screen available. I used to do iphone today but got sick of it bugging up and requiring a phone restart and I've yet to have sense freeze up my phone even if it does get laggy.

And really it's not all that bad on memory, the only time I've ever noticed it slowing down was when updating the libraries on one of the media players and trying to do something else at the same time, but I make a point to routinely close programs as to never have more than 2 programs running at a time outside of special circumstances. Sense itself is obviously laggy but I've learned to put up with that.

[pw-man]

I tried a Sense ROM a month or so ago, but didn't like the lagginess myself...  I don love the integration that Sense has with FB contacts for monitoring specific friends profiles, etc., etc.  that functionality is really missing in any other UI that I am aware of for WM...  

For me I still like MS (and use the Sense UI that Nang made over at XDA --- it is the best custom widgets for MS, me things..) wish I could get a bit more free ram, but autoclean keeps things decently smooth....

[snapz54]

you guys aren't hungry enough.  We've had the O2 since it was launched or at least before roms were able to be cooked.  It was so crippled out of the gate with verizon's garbage.  From the earliest sense installed with a couple cabs to the point we are at now is night and day.  You always have the option of stock roms and lite roms here.  Making an entire thread about "sense is too laggy" is not the root to follow here.

We need to support the chefs, verbally (by typing) and with a couple beers  (if you can afford it)

These are very talented people with a long tedious task ahead of them, it's only a matter of time and motivation and if we do our part as the consumer of establishing a demand and supporting their creative efforts sense will get further and further everyday and end up better than stock eventually.  It will at least be pushed to the limits of our device.  

so if you really have a concern, read through an entire thread, and make SPECIFIC statements in that thread.  For example, when I was running a sense rom a while ago the dialer would get buggy after a couple days use of the rom.  Some buttons would disappear, caller ID would be blank, and the entire phone function would lag resulting in missed calls.  

SPECIFICS, not just "stuff is slow and it makes me unhappy"

by listing specific problems you give the chefs specific goals to overcome, if your not going to cook and only consume then do you part and consume the right way.  Seriously these guys spend hours combing through files looking for Verizon and Microsofts remnants of garbage bloatware and unnecessary files.  All of these is just to make pictures of your 4th of July picnic load and scroll faster.  perspective.

[snapz54]

also, sense was/is a new challenge, you have to remember a lot of us have been running titanium since it was cracked open on the O1.  With so much time to tweak and play titanium has thousands of threads about it.  Gchris and the like,  I think the chefs really like solving a problem at the end of the day.  And sense not functioning smoothly is a new problem to conquer.

Also, don't just try A sense rom, try each one.  different chefs have different strengths in their roms.  Some run near flawlessly.

[tedkord]

snapz54, on Aug 6 2010, 13:11, said:

We need to support the chefs, verbally (by typing) and with a couple beers  (if you can afford it)

You're absolutely right. These guys put out work that drastically improves the O2, even with the slight lag of Sense, etc... You've inspired me.

I donated to Lioryte and BGILL when they were working miracles on my Omnia. I even tracked down Wozzer on another forum and asked him to come on over to the Modaco Omnia II forum and help us get started cracking the DC23 update. (I originally asked him if we got up enough donations to buy him an Omnia II off contract, would he then work on ROMs for us? Being the generous guy he is, he said he'd do it just for the challenge) I didn't even have the Omnia II yet (but saw it as the most likely upgrade path for me), but I tossed him a donation - hey, the guy not only got us started on the O2, he also got 6.5 on the O1.

I always planned to donate here, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Just lazy, I guess. But that is officially rectified. I've just sent a donation to my chef of choice, AMDZero. Thanks for your work, sir. I didn't get my O2 until about a month or two ago - but thanks to these folks, I already had quite a few choices for upgrading.

BTW, we lost BGILL to DROID, but Lioryte is still on the fence. He's coming up on upgrade time, and I've already tried to coax him to go with an O2. Drop by the Omnia forum here, and help give him a push. Next to BGILL, he made what I consider the best Omnia ROMs (I know, that's subjective).

[ED2O9]

SPECIFICS, not just "stuff is slow and it makes me unhappy"

Wow... really?  That's what my comment came off like?  If so, I'm sorry.  I was just curious about why there so much enthusiasm surrounding Sense, when it seemed to me like there were more appealing options.  When I read "Some run near flawlessly.", it makes me question if there's something wrong with my phone's hardware.  This was never meant to be a shot at the chefs, and I thought I made that clear, but I guess not clear enough.  I simply posted an open question asking why the ported Sense fans preferred it to other front-ends.

As for not being hungry enough, I really gotta call your bluff on that one.  The Omnia 2 hit the US market on the first week of December 2009.  If I'm not mistaken, the first custom ROMs started appearing in late January and early February 2010, which is exactly when I bought my O2.  At the most, you languished with your stock ROM for two months... hardly cause for severe "hunger".  Now... if you were one of those unlucky souls who bought the i8000 back in early spring of 2009, then you have cause to complain.

[ED2O9]

snapz54, on Aug 6 2010, 18:17, said:

also, sense was/is a new challenge, you have to remember a lot of us have been running titanium since it was cracked open on the O1.  With so much time to tweak and play titanium has thousands of threads about it.  Gchris and the like,  I think the chefs really like solving a problem at the end of the day.  And sense not functioning smoothly is a new problem to conquer.

Also, don't just try A sense rom, try each one.  different chefs have different strengths in their roms.  Some run near flawlessly.

THAT I can understand!  There's a lot to be said for doing something monumental to prove it can be done.  Like I said, getting Sense to run smoothly on an Omnia 2 would be a nice combo.

BTW - I did flash two Sense ROMs, but picked one for it's WM6 version.

[Ninja4Hire]

Sorry I have been kinda away for a little bit working on a new O2 rom and also learn how to program for WP7.

Everyone on here makes good points and us chefs (excuse me for speaking for all of us) do appreciate the support the community has given us. BTW donations are not expected EVER, but they are appreciated. I have no words to describe someone who willingly gives donations to a stranger for just doing what they love and will do for free.

Ok back to the roms: We have been putting time in and making Sense roms for two reasons. 1. It's a new challenge and we feed on stuff like that, 2. People want it regardless if it's 100% functional or not, including us (see reason 1).

Yes there are other UI's and such we can put on a rom. Some are pay (SPB), but the forum rules prohibit cooking them into roms. There are plenty of free options, but that in itself lies a problem. It's not so much a challenge or even that satisfying to cook in something that can easily be cab'd in the same. Now if someone asks a cook on here to cook in a specific UI or mod, chances are you will get your wish. I myself am getting a little tied of Sense, but so far I think it's the best UI on the block. MS is good, but to me it feels a little to much like it was made in all adobe flash (I don't know why that bothers me). I really want to finish my Throttle Launch Windows Phone 7 UI, but so far it's way clunkier than Sense ever will be. Snapz54 has inspired me to make a mix OP7 and Sense, so that is my current project. There are a couple things I see on XDA that interest me, but I'm already over extended as it is so they will have to take a back burner for now.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the support and ideas that keep the O2 love alive!!

[amdzero]

Ninja4Hire, on Aug 6 2010, 16:34, said:

Everyone on here makes good points and us chefs (excuse me for speaking for all of us) do appreciate the support the community has given us. BTW donations are not expected EVER, but they are appreciated. I have no words to describe someone who willingly gives donations to a stranger for just doing what they love and will do for free.

Speak for yourself ninja, if I don't get paid I'm jumping ship!


nah just kiddin'... your spot on dude.  Also I too am getting tired of Sense.  Dude I still have my O1 and I turned it on to find I flashed a custom rom a while back with HTC TouchFlo 3D on it.  Man it is smoother than butter.  I mean the clock flip was faster than I've seen on newer Sense Android phones.  It completely sucks that I can't get to that kind of level on my sense rom.  Yeah I know apples and oranges, O2 is wvga and O1 is qwvga so in effect it has 1/2 the screen real-estate, but still I mean I slide back and forth, and I ALMOST want to use my O1 again.

The big advantage the O2 has over O1 is the screen quality.  AMOLED AND WVGA makes for gorgeous pictures/movies.  Of course that is where the problem lies, as we STILL don't have a sense cab/rom that is OpenGlv2 compatible.  Still waiting on Steel for that one, although I fear he burned himself out.

[tedkord]

amdzero, on Aug 6 2010, 20:49, said:

Speak for yourself ninja, if I don't get paid I'm jumping ship!
nah just kiddin'... your spot on dude.  Also I too am getting tired of Sense.  Dude I still have my O1 and I turned it on to find I flashed a custom rom a while back with HTC TouchFlo 3D on it.  Man it is smoother than butter.  I mean the clock flip was faster than I've seen on newer Sense Android phones.  It completely sucks that I can't get to that kind of level on my sense rom.  Yeah I know apples and oranges, O2 is wvga and O1 is qwvga so in effect it has 1/2 the screen real-estate, but still I mean I slide back and forth, and I ALMOST want to use my O1 again.

The big advantage the O2 has over O1 is the screen quality.  AMOLED AND WVGA makes for gorgeous pictures/movies.  Of course that is where the problem lies, as we STILL don't have a sense cab/rom that is OpenGlv2 compatible.  Still waiting on Steel for that one, although I fear he burned himself out.

Actually, the O1 has 1/4 the pixels to render versus the O2. But it's not only the pixel count, it's the overall clarity and color reproduction. Like I said in an earlier post, I never realized how bland and yellowish the O1 screen looked until I had both on right next to each other.

I installed  a TF3D WVGA cab I found in another forum on my O2 - it's buttery smooth, but not nearly as pretty as Sense or MS3.5. Sense works well enough for me - much less lag than the first ROM it came on. The animations are a bit slow (weather, etc...) I'm holding out hope that Steel's going to get that GLES2.0 Sense ported to our devices - that could be nice! I don't think he's burned out - he did say that his most recent ROM would be the last for a couple of weeks due to workload. I think he's driven by the same desire to overcome a challenge that all the best chefs exhibit. Sometimes life has to take precedence over cooking, though.

Edited by tedkord, 07 August 2010 - 02:05 AM.

[xlightwaverx]

What is this talk about OpenGl2 compatible being ported over?  Sense only utilizes OpenGl1 I thought.  Are there any packages for this OpenGl2 to mess with?  It might be as easy as creating sym links to appropriate files to get it to work if Sense utilizes OpenGl2.

amdzero, on Aug 6 2010, 21:49, said:

Speak for yourself ninja, if I don't get paid I'm jumping ship!
nah just kiddin'... your spot on dude.  Also I too am getting tired of Sense.  Dude I still have my O1 and I turned it on to find I flashed a custom rom a while back with HTC TouchFlo 3D on it.  Man it is smoother than butter.  I mean the clock flip was faster than I've seen on newer Sense Android phones.  It completely sucks that I can't get to that kind of level on my sense rom.  Yeah I know apples and oranges, O2 is wvga and O1 is qwvga so in effect it has 1/2 the screen real-estate, but still I mean I slide back and forth, and I ALMOST want to use my O1 again.

The big advantage the O2 has over O1 is the screen quality.  AMOLED AND WVGA makes for gorgeous pictures/movies.  Of course that is where the problem lies, as we STILL don't have a sense cab/rom that is OpenGlv2 compatible.  Still waiting on Steel for that one, although I fear he burned himself out.

[tedkord]

xlightwaverx, on Aug 6 2010, 22:05, said:

What is this talk about OpenGl2 compatible being ported over?  Sense only utilizes OpenGl1 I thought.  Are there any packages for this OpenGl2 to mess with?  It might be as easy as creating sym links to appropriate files to get it to work if Sense utilizes OpenGl2.

In Steel's Sense ROM thread, he states he's working on porting over Sense from the HTC HD Mini, which he says is OGL2ES accelerated. I'm taking him at his word on it, because he'd certainly know better than I. He said the porting was going slowly.

Here's the post

Edited by tedkord, 07 August 2010 - 08:39 PM.

[snapz54]

tedkord, on Aug 7 2010, 02:00, said:

I installed  a TF3D WVGA cab

link to the one you used please?

[tedkord]

snapz54, on Aug 7 2010, 20:05, said:

link to the one you used please?

I'll have to try and find it again. I don't remember where I got it. Also, I didn't try it extensively, testing all the tabs and features. I just loaded it and swiped along the bottom tabs - very smooth. If I find it, I'll post it.

[Mr.DunnDunn]

Im not really to big on sense anyway.  i think i was only 1 of the few who likes TF3d better.  To bad there arent to many roms out there for the O2 that has that.




If Ninja or AMD could make a rom with Live Wallpapers then that would be the s***!  

been looking for live wallpapers for WM for a few days now and now luck except throttlelauncher which sucks

[amdzero]

Mr.DunnDunn, on Aug 9 2010, 07:50, said:

Im not really to big on sense anyway.  i think i was only 1 of the few who likes TF3d better.  To bad there arent to many roms out there for the O2 that has that.
If Ninja or AMD could make a rom with Live Wallpapers then that would be the s***!  

been looking for live wallpapers for WM for a few days now and now luck except throttlelauncher which sucks

I am in development of TouchFlo 2.0

Its not as fancy as Senes, but it sure is fast!  and barely uses any RAM.

Anyone wanna beta test it for me?