Guest grifter2081 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Hi there. First post on these boards so how are you all doing? I could use a little advice..... My toddler son stood on my vega and broke the lcd. Horrified, I checked it over and found the digitizer was working fine so I found a replacement lcd on Ebay (compatible but not the model originally in the vega) and installed it. The vega booted up fine after installation but no touch response at all from the digitizer? After fiddling for a day or two with no luck I decided to plug the original cracked screen back in and lo and behold the digitizer is working fine? Any ideas what could be causing this problem? The replacement screen I have used perhaps. Its identical to the original but is a chinese copy of some sorts I think or an OEM. Any help would be appreciated. Griff................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrownBreaker Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Hi there. First post on these boards so how are you all doing? I could use a little advice..... My toddler son stood on my vega and broke the lcd. Horrified, I checked it over and found the digitizer was working fine so I found a replacement lcd on Ebay (compatible but not the model originally in the vega) and installed it. The vega booted up fine after installation but no touch response at all from the digitizer? After fiddling for a day or two with no luck I decided to plug the original cracked screen back in and lo and behold the digitizer is working fine? Any ideas what could be causing this problem? The replacement screen I have used perhaps. Its identical to the original but is a chinese copy of some sorts I think or an OEM. Any help would be appreciated. Griff................. What is the part number of the replacement? It is possible you purchase an LCD screen that does not have touch capability or uses a resistive screen when the Vega uses a capacitative screen. It might be worth running the touch panel calibration program to see if that helps. Out of interest how did you manage to locate a suitable replacement LCD panel, open the Vega to replace it on your own as this is a fairly complex process. Was there a guide or video you followed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest warriorscot Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Have you checked its totally identical, remember that capacitive screens need to be able to have a current running through them to detect the change. I would say its probably a small thing you have missed but may be able to fix as long as its the right screen. Also opening up the vega is pretty easy there are a couple of tear down posts that explain how to get it open and the internals themselves are fairly simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grifter2081 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 What is the part number of the replacement? It is possible you purchase an LCD screen that does not have touch capability or uses a resistive screen when the Vega uses a capacitative screen. It might be worth running the touch panel calibration program to see if that helps. Out of interest how did you manage to locate a suitable replacement LCD panel, open the Vega to replace it on your own as this is a fairly complex process. Was there a guide or video you followed? Hi there! Thanks for the reply. I didnt make a not of the part number when I installed the screen but it is supposed to be IVO M101NWT2 compatible. The original screen is an IVO M101NWT2-R0. I found the screen on Ebay and made sure it was the right size. The 'R0' screens are quite difficult to find and I had contacted several suppliers of genuine IVO screens only for them to be out of stock. I took the plunge and thought Id try the compatible model off Ebay. The item number is 150543420937 and should be still viewable if you fancy a look. As for opening the vega I have lots of experience with laptop repair so I just had a go so to speak. It came apart easily. The vega is a trail blazer for off-the-shelf components! The only trouble was getting the screen out as it was stuck down with fine double sided tape but a quick pass with a heat gun and it came out easily. I have'nt had much experience with touch screens so maybe I have an incompatible one. Ill take the vega apart again tomorrow and get the model number of the screen if you like? Whats the touch calibration program you speak of? Griff..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grifter2081 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Have you checked its totally identical, remember that capacitive screens need to be able to have a current running through them to detect the change. I would say its probably a small thing you have missed but may be able to fix as long as its the right screen. Also opening up the vega is pretty easy there are a couple of tear down posts that explain how to get it open and the internals themselves are fairly simple. The screen replacement is identical in all but labelling as far as I can tell. How do I make it detect the change? Could I hot swap the original for the new one? Would that force the digitizer to recognise it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest warriorscot Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 I wouldn't suggest hot swapping, I have a feeling that as long as the replacement is also a capactive screen then you have a break in the circuit somewhere that isn't there on the original. When I mentioned looking at the original I meant looking for physical differences not really the model number. There might be some small amount of conducting material or a slight physical variation between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrownBreaker Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Hi there! Thanks for the reply. I didnt make a not of the part number when I installed the screen but it is supposed to be IVO M101NWT2 compatible. The original screen is an IVO M101NWT2-R0. I found the screen on Ebay and made sure it was the right size. The 'R0' screens are quite difficult to find and I had contacted several suppliers of genuine IVO screens only for them to be out of stock. I took the plunge and thought Id try the compatible model off Ebay. The item number is 150543420937 and should be still viewable if you fancy a look. As for opening the vega I have lots of experience with laptop repair so I just had a go so to speak. It came apart easily. The vega is a trail blazer for off-the-shelf components! The only trouble was getting the screen out as it was stuck down with fine double sided tape but a quick pass with a heat gun and it came out easily. I have'nt had much experience with touch screens so maybe I have an incompatible one. Ill take the vega apart again tomorrow and get the model number of the screen if you like? Whats the touch calibration program you speak of? Griff..................... The ebay item is listed as 10.1" IVO M101NWT2 COMPATIBLE NETBOOK LAPTOP LCD SCREEN Item number: 150543420937 This is a LCD flat panel (output device) its not a LCD touch Panel (input and output device). This is why your touch input is not working I think.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grifter2081 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 The ebay item is listed as 10.1" IVO M101NWT2 COMPATIBLE NETBOOK LAPTOP LCD SCREEN Item number: 150543420937 This is a LCD flat panel (output device) its not a LCD touch Panel (input and output device). This is why your touch input is not working I think.. Ah! This could be the problem. I'm afraid you may be right! Schoolboy error on my part lol! I will see if I can get refunded on this panel and try and find another one. Any suggestions on compatible models that may have better viewing angles? Thanks for your help. Griff......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrownBreaker Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Ah! This could be the problem. I'm afraid you may be right! Schoolboy error on my part lol! I will see if I can get refunded on this panel and try and find another one. Any suggestions on compatible models that may have better viewing angles? Thanks for your help. Griff......... No problem post a video or some photos of how you opened the advent up. I'm not brave enough to do this, would be helpful..Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DublinGuy Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Ah! This could be the problem. I'm afraid you may be right! Schoolboy error on my part lol! I will see if I can get refunded on this panel and try and find another one. Any suggestions on compatible models that may have better viewing angles? Thanks for your help. Griff......... This is an interesting thread :) After cracking my own front glass recently I know more about the Vega innards than I ever thought I would :) First off, can you confirm that it is definitely the LCD is broken and not the outer front glass? I can't see how this could happen, though possibly if your kid stood on the back of the device, the screen would go before the glass went. Assuming it is only the screen, here is my understanding of how the screen/digitizer works. As you have seen, the screen is a separate part from the front glass/plastic surround. When you take the screen out, you are left with this (plus a few electronics in and around the inner plastic bezel, like the webcam etc.)... Touchscreeen This part is the outer glass, the plastic bezel and a film layer under the glass. The film/glass combo *is* the touchscreen or digitizer. The LCD screen has no touch capability of its own. So the fact the screen you bought is not a touch panel is neiither here nor there. As you will have noticed, there are two connections for whole of the front part - one for the LCD screen and another for digitizer. The digitizer connection is the very small flexible connector coming off the cable that goes into the front glass/plastic bezel part. You can see it at the bottom in the picture of the part above. It is a very fiddly connection to get back in. My gut feeling at this stage is that you have just had a piece of bad luck - when you fitted the new LCD you didn't get that connection back in properly. When you re-installed the broken LCD, you did! What do you think? It might be worth having another go at installing the new LCD? Cheers, C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grifter2081 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 This is an interesting thread :) After cracking my own front glass recently I know more about the Vega innards than I ever thought I would :) First off, can you confirm that it is definitely the LCD is broken and not the outer front glass? I can't see how this could happen, though possibly if your kid stood on the back of the device, the screen would go before the glass went. Assuming it is only the screen, here is my understanding of how the screen/digitizer works. As you have seen, the screen is a separate part from the front glass/plastic surround. When you take the screen out, you are left with this (plus a few electronics in and around the inner plastic bezel, like the webcam etc.)... Touchscreeen This part is the outer glass, the plastic bezel and a film layer under the glass. The film/glass combo *is* the touchscreen or digitizer. The LCD screen has no touch capability of its own. So the fact the screen you bought is not a touch panel is neiither here nor there. As you will have noticed, there are two connections for whole of the front part - one for the LCD screen and another for digitizer. The digitizer connection is the very small flexible connector coming off the cable that goes into the front glass/plastic bezel part. You can see it at the bottom in the picture of the part above. It is a very fiddly connection to get back in. My gut feeling at this stage is that you have just had a piece of bad luck - when you fitted the new LCD you didn't get that connection back in properly. When you re-installed the broken LCD, you did! What do you think? It might be worth having another go at installing the new LCD? Cheers, C After some thought I came to the conclusion that it shouldn't matter that the lcd is output only also, due to the digitizer being plugged into the motherboard on a seperate feed as it were. I placed the new lcd back in the vega last night but got no joy? There must be something I'm missing somewhere? I'm at work at the moment but when I get home thisafternoon ill have another go. The vega was in its case when my son stood on it so he could have stood on te back of it? I thought it strange the glass front survived also. Griff........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest warriorscot Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Very interesting Dublinguy and you are right, there are some exceptions many digitizers are integrated into the panel or use a port on the panel but it depends on the design given the off the shelf nature of the vega it is probably not bespoke and is two seperate pieces. As I was mentioning about looking for missing connections and differences the touchpanel needs to be connected properly and has to have a complete circuit across the surface. If you look at the connector carefully when the original panel is in it needs to go in the same position exactly and all contacts need to be made. If it contacts anything other than the port with the original in you need to replicate that with the new screen in place. In terms of other screens as long as the form factor and the connection is the same it should work. Given the fact that the Vega is based of a reference design from multiple manufacturers it should use standard connections so other screens should probably exist but someone with more experience in 10.1" LCDs and laptop repairs would have to tell you if the port is a common one. There are plenty of 1280 10.1" Tegra devices so the screen from one of those would probably be interchangeable. If you have your Vega open you could compare the screen to those in tear down pics for XOOMs or Adams etc. and see if the dimensions and ports are similar enough to fit. Might be something doable might not it depends on how much variation there is between designs from the reference the form factors all vary but lots of times ports are consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grifter2081 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Very interesting Dublinguy and you are right, there are some exceptions many digitizers are integrated into the panel or use a port on the panel but it depends on the design given the off the shelf nature of the vega it is probably not bespoke and is two seperate pieces. As I was mentioning about looking for missing connections and differences the touchpanel needs to be connected properly and has to have a complete circuit across the surface. If you look at the connector carefully when the original panel is in it needs to go in the same position exactly and all contacts need to be made. If it contacts anything other than the port with the original in you need to replicate that with the new screen in place. In terms of other screens as long as the form factor and the connection is the same it should work. Given the fact that the Vega is based of a reference design from multiple manufacturers it should use standard connections so other screens should probably exist but someone with more experience in 10.1" LCDs and laptop repairs would have to tell you if the port is a common one. There are plenty of 1280 10.1" Tegra devices so the screen from one of those would probably be interchangeable. If you have your Vega open you could compare the screen to those in tear down pics for XOOMs or Adams etc. and see if the dimensions and ports are similar enough to fit. Might be something doable might not it depends on how much variation there is between designs from the reference the form factors all vary but lots of times ports are consistent. Ive had a little bit of success. I now have a partial response from the new screen. I havent got time at the monent but later I should be able to fiddle until it comes back. Thankyou for all your help! If I get it back Ill let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrownBreaker Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Ive had a little bit of success. I now have a partial response from the new screen. I havent got time at the monent but later I should be able to fiddle until it comes back. Thankyou for all your help! If I get it back Ill let you know. Glad its starting to work for you. There is a screen calibartion utility I think it is in the modaco ROM or here http://android.modaco.com/content/advent-v...-works-on-vega/ Remember to not touch the glass or use the external PSU during calibration run takes <50second to run, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest warriorscot Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Ive had a little bit of success. I now have a partial response from the new screen. I havent got time at the monent but later I should be able to fiddle until it comes back. Glad you are having more luck .Remember to recalibrate the screen it will probably need it the R8 has an app for it and so does the 1.09+ stock rom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grifter2081 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Glad you are having more luck .Remember to recalibrate the screen it will probably need it the R8 has an app for it and so does the 1.09+ stock rom. After my little success I seem to be back to square one? Earlier you talked of capacitive screens needing a current running across them to work. Would this have anything to do with the metal plate or shield that goes behind the LCD once its installed? I only ask because in places this was taped down with conductive foil tape. On one side of the plate the tape is intact but not on the other as I damaged it when I dismantled the vega first time. Will this tape conduct or will it just be for EM shielding? I was thinking of getting a roll of foil tape to replace whats missing. Sort of a last gasp attempt? It can't hurt to try I suppose. Other than that Im stumped. Its looking more and more like the vega will be going on Ebay for parts lol. Griff...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrownBreaker Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) After my little success I seem to be back to square one? Earlier you talked of capacitive screens needing a current running across them to work. Would this have anything to do with the metal plate or shield that goes behind the LCD once its installed? I only ask because in places this was taped down with conductive foil tape. On one side of the plate the tape is intact but not on the other as I damaged it when I dismantled the vega first time. Will this tape conduct or will it just be for EM shielding? I was thinking of getting a roll of foil tape to replace whats missing. Sort of a last gasp attempt? It can't hurt to try I suppose. Other than that Im stumped. Its looking more and more like the vega will be going on Ebay for parts lol. Griff...... This might help its for a small phone not a tablet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj2izTpUb1w...feature=related This is nice covers inverter etc for a touch laptop Edited April 20, 2011 by FrownBreaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grifter2081 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 This might help its for a small phone not a tablet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj2izTpUb1w...feature=related This is nice covers inverter etc for a touch laptop Thanks very much frownbreaker. Those videos are pretty insightful. I think my problem might lie in the missing tape. Ill keep trying!!!! Griff....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DublinGuy Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Thanks very much frownbreaker. Those videos are pretty insightful. I think my problem might lie in the missing tape. Ill keep trying!!!! Griff....... Just to clarify - the last video in that list is for a most unusual device, it is not related to the Vega setup. That HP has two separate input methods on the screen, the resistive touchscreen and an actual digitizer, which is the thing at the back of the screen. This digitizer allows for very precise touch input using a stylus and is the same kind of technology as a desktop digitizer. We definitely do not have one of those in the Vega. We just have one method, the "projected capacitive" touchscreen which is the glass panel part I referred to earlier. If the touchscreen continues to work with the old broken LCD (have you re-tried the old screen again?) there must be something about the new screen that is causing the problem. Is there any movement at all when you boot up on the new screen? Is a clock moving forward? Or do you have live wallpaper? I wonder if the screen is causing the OS to crash maybe? Does connecting up a HDMI display made any odds? (not sure why it might but could be worth trying). c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grifter2081 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Just to clarify - the last video in that list is for a most unusual device, it is not related to the Vega setup. That HP has two separate input methods on the screen, the resistive touchscreen and an actual digitizer, which is the thing at the back of the screen. This digitizer allows for very precise touch input using a stylus and is the same kind of technology as a desktop digitizer. We definitely do not have one of those in the Vega. We just have one method, the "projected capacitive" touchscreen which is the glass panel part I referred to earlier. If the touchscreen continues to work with the old broken LCD (have you re-tried the old screen again?) there must be something about the new screen that is causing the problem. Is there any movement at all when you boot up on the new screen? Is a clock moving forward? Or do you have live wallpaper? I wonder if the screen is causing the OS to crash maybe? Does connecting up a HDMI display made any odds? (not sure why it might but could be worth trying). c Ive had some response from the new screen, very little but it did pick up some presses yesterday. The problem is now the touch is sketchy on the old screen also. I plugged it back in and used the HDMI out so I could see what I was doing but couldnt get the lock pattern in as it kept losing my position. I've got an inkling that there's something to do with the metal tape I removed from one side. I don't know what the tape was for however? I assume its some kind of ground or earth? If this was the case we could be looking at static build up 'overloading' the digitizer so it fails to recognise touches. If that fails the problem must lie with the small ribbon connecting the digitizer to the mainboard. In this case I will be looking at a whole new digitizer as the ribbon cable isn't interchangable. Ive ordered a roll of aluminium and a roll of copper tape to have a go. It seems my best option for now. Thanks for the help! Griff........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DublinGuy Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Ive had some response from the new screen, very little but it did pick up some presses yesterday. The problem is now the touch is sketchy on the old screen also. I plugged it back in and used the HDMI out so I could see what I was doing but couldnt get the lock pattern in as it kept losing my position. I've got an inkling that there's something to do with the metal tape I removed from one side. I don't know what the tape was for however? I assume its some kind of ground or earth? If this was the case we could be looking at static build up 'overloading' the digitizer so it fails to recognise touches. If that fails the problem must lie with the small ribbon connecting the digitizer to the mainboard. In this case I will be looking at a whole new digitizer as the ribbon cable isn't interchangable. Ive ordered a roll of aluminium and a roll of copper tape to have a go. It seems my best option for now. Thanks for the help! Griff........ Worth giving it a go tho I doubt its the foil tbh. Remember that the touchscreen can get very hairy if you are using the unit with the charger plugged in - I have continual problems with not being able to do the lock screen in exactly the way you say when it is charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrownBreaker Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) Ive had some response from the new screen, very little but it did pick up some presses yesterday. The problem is now the touch is sketchy on the old screen also. I plugged it back in and used the HDMI out so I could see what I was doing but couldnt get the lock pattern in as it kept losing my position. I've got an inkling that there's something to do with the metal tape I removed from one side. I don't know what the tape was for however? I assume its some kind of ground or earth? If this was the case we could be looking at static build up 'overloading' the digitizer so it fails to recognise touches. If that fails the problem must lie with the small ribbon connecting the digitizer to the mainboard. In this case I will be looking at a whole new digitizer as the ribbon cable isn't interchangable. Ive ordered a roll of aluminium and a roll of copper tape to have a go. It seems my best option for now. Thanks for the help! Griff........ Not likely to be static related the tape is part of the capacitative sensor used to read the screen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#Capacitive This pic tells the story well.. See the 2 strips of metal?! http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/400...sor-algorithms/ Edited April 20, 2011 by FrownBreaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DublinGuy Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Not likely to be static related the tape is part of the capacitative sensor used to read the screen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#Capacitive This pic tells the story well.. See the 2 strips of metal?! http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/400...sor-algorithms/ I am trying to understand your point here - which pic are you referring to? Where are the two strips of metal? My understanding is that a capacitive touchscreen is pretty much self contained - while it may well be affected by EMF (from the charger for example), there isn't a part in the main body of the tablet that is part of the way the touchscreen works. I am no expert on this, but as far as I know, if you have the touch panel completely removed (but plugged in obviously :) ) it will still respond. It is a standalone product in that sense. The more I think about it, the more it seems that maybe the foil could have something to do with it, purely because of the havoc the charger causes when it is plugged in. If the foil has any EMF screening purpose then removing it may have led to even more EMF issues than usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DublinGuy Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 This is interesting, it is suggesting the LCD itself might be the cause of EMF (see last two paras) http://touch-intl.com/wordpress/?p=376 It could be worth trying to raise the lcd slightly when u install it, maybe a couple of pieces of paper under the tabs or something like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grifter2081 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 This is interesting, it is suggesting the LCD itself might be the cause of EMF (see last two paras) http://touch-intl.com/wordpress/?p=376 It could be worth trying to raise the lcd slightly when u install it, maybe a couple of pieces of paper under the tabs or something like that... There are already some thin plastic runs glued down on the inside of the digitizer which the lcd sits on creating a gap of around 1-2mm. Perhaps this new lcd is more 'noisy' than the old one? Ill try lifting it a little further away from the digitizer to see if it makes any difference. The tape I was talking about was down the left and right sides. To remove the metal plate to get at the lcd I had to peel back some tape on the left hand side. This is what I damaged and threw away. It was sitcking the metal plate down to the plastic inside surround of the digitizer. I cant help thinking as it was foil tape it had some king of purpose either for shielding or conducting. I have some tape coming but it may take a few days to arrive what with all the bank holidays etc. Aparently foil tape both shields and conducts. Ill have a go when it arrives. Griff.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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