95 replies to this topic

[madu]

Fraser - I agree to what you say, maximum respect.

I would only like to add that every person needs to analyse the information he is presented with and challange it. Those who have more facts, more feed from real life and things that happen in the real world - come to more real conclusions. That is why most of the population beleives in what they see on CNN - they've been trained for decades to trust blindly the 'telly'. But the fact of politics is that they actually DO control most things and CAN control everything, but at a global country level. They have the whole mechanism for doing whatever brings them to a goal. And the people in control of media are very powerful people - they go with other powerful people - government, military, even drugs, but again - it is all very limited circle, where everyone has similar interests and thus they stick together. Throughout history - the ones that do not comply with power, disappear.

I don't want to sound a smartarse, but population of UK has no clue what is happening at the top of their country - government, bosses, elite... They manipulate the majority like... [obstained from offense] Again, there's no limit to what can be said..

But I do agree that there are many people that are not for war but against Saddaam or his regime or for human rights or their country and policy. Or they are for war because of these/other factors. Or for war but don't care about the actual situation with Iraq..

MY SUPPORT FOR BRAVE SOLDIERS NOW FIGHTING IN IRAQ DOING THEIR JOB
[but I really wish they did not have to do this]

One way or another, it's great to see that people are not ignorant and write massive essays on this [just remembered it's an SPV forum] lol. Gotta stop!! Now... Ok finishing. End.

Over & Out

[inlinesk8a]

why would people be in favour of killing inoccent people?
imagine if YOUR conutry was in war at your country at the same place you lived, a group of iraq soldiers killed your mom & dad.
why? was they innocent?

[drblow]

fraser, on Mar 18 2003, 19:19, said:

I'm sorry, but anyone who is for this war simply doesn't know enough about it. Bush and pals have been consistenly lying and misleading everyone about this, inciting post 9-11 emotions against a nation that has absolutely nothing to do with Islamic terrorism. This is despite large operations by the FBI and CIA to prove otherwise, which haven't even picked up the slighest trace of a connection. Iraq is a secular country that is an enemy of all Islamic states, they fought an 11-year war with Iran and they have no friends in the region at all. Meanwhile countries in the middle east who had everything to do with the terrorist attacks are treated as allies because we have business dealings with them, where we support regimes that give their own people less civil and human rights than the people in Iraq have.
We don't have business dealings with Iraq. Overthrowing the present leadership will give the US and the UK access to the Iraqs oil, which are the second largest known oil reserves in the world. Not only does Iraq contain lots of oil, the oil itself is very easy (cheap) to extract, refine and export. It is a goldmine for the oil companies, who have already started to carve up the spoils of war, with some of the most lucrative contracts going to companies that key players in the current administration have a long personal history with.
Bush's cabinet said in April, 2001 (6 months prior to 9-11): 'Iraq remains a destabilising influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East' and because this is an unacceptable risk to the US 'military intervention' is necessary."
Always remember; everyone in the Bush administration has very close ties to the oil industry. The National Security Adviser has an oil tanker named after her. Each of these people were given huge "parting gifts" by the oil industry when they moved into politics.
What is ironic is that the US helped Saddam rise to power, then later supplied him with the weapons that were used to commit his crimes against humanity. The US congress blocked investigations during Regan's presedency into the attrocities. Not only do they turn a blind eye, they actively tried to cover it up. Now all of a sudden "it's important".
In addition to this, most anti-western feeling is due to one nation in particular, Israel. This nation is in violation of so many UN resolutions it is unbelievable, yet we are treating a second resolution against Iraq as a ticket to war. Israel is commiting a holocaust against the Palestinion people in their own homeland, worse than anything Saddam has done, yet the US regularly uses UN vetos against any resolutions that attempt to tackle the problem, the US has the most vetos by far in the UN, most relating to this problem. Israel's current occupation of Palestine is illegal, brutal, racist and funded by the USA. By the way, the vast majority of US media is controlled by Israeli-friendly companies.
My sig relates to this. The US media is engaging in a campaign that is very similar to the Nazi's rise to power. They are demonising a people that are of no real threat to them, stating that we must attack first "to preserve our way of life". They suggest that all arab states want to destroy us and that we must defend ourselves by attacking them. Fear is used to bring the people in to touch. Shops have sold out on things like duct tape, after "advice" to people to build a chemical warfare shelter in their own homes. They have got an entire nation running scared, and this is being used to fund the governments conquests for power.
The US people are being presented with a very racist treatment of all Arabs, with everyone being guilty until proven innocent, that's if you are actually able to get legal representation. Arabs are treated with fear and suspicion, especially in places such as airports. An imigrant computer programmer was recently moved across the US in police custody, held in appauling conditions for over three weeks, all because he noticed that his visa had expired earlier that it was supposed to. Many Arabs have started to leave the US, akin to some of the Jewish population leaving Germany during the 30's.
This sort of behaviour, and the continual errosion of civil liberties, has destroyed the fabric of the US, undermining everything that the nation is supposed to stand for. I have more fear of people like Bush, Cheney and Rice than I do of Saddam.
Meanwhile at home (in the UK), we have "scandals" when members of the government indicate that they disagree with the current policies. Excuse me, but I thought we were supposed to be living in a democracy? How is that possible when all politions are made to promote the same plans?
Our governments are making a mockery of democracy. They aren't listening to the publics desires one bit, and are intentionally misleading us on the issues. Voting once every five years between a choice of two viable parties is a farce. Anyone who thinks we live in a fair and democratic society should get their head out of their arse before they suffocate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pity I never noticed this post before, or I would have been on my soapbox for sure!! Just had to say though - RIGHT ON FRASER, RIGHT ON!!  :twisted:

[illi]

Simple question: Who suffers out of this BLOODY WAR???

[benzo]

illi, on Sep 19 2005, 07:23, said:

Simple question: Who suffers out of this BLOODY WAR???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Simple
1. Innocent Iraqi civilians
2. Iraqi soldiers forced to fight a war due to a destroyed economy that cannot afford to employ them as it did before the bloody mess started
3. "coalition" soldiers who thought they were going to fight for freedom
4. You and I who pay tax to fund this war when the money should be going to UK hospitals, education and police

Who gains?
1. Arms dealers
2. Israel
3. The loony neocons who want to destroy the middle east and control oil
4. Contractors going out to Iraq charging crazy per hour rates for doing nothing
5. Private security firms such as Blackwater
6. Corrupt Iraqi officials

[Disco Stu]

Get Your War On - cartoons by David Rees
Caution : contains politics and lots of swearing

[bennish]

Would it help alleviate the problems in the middle east if we were to hurry up and stop using oil for everything?

or am i just being naive?

[pwest13]

I work with an Iraqi who fled his country before the war 1) because he didn't want to waste his life, and 2) he didn't believe in the war, hes a great guy and he left his family are still in Iraq. A few weeks ago his brother was stabbed on the streets. The sad story is that my friend couldn't go and see his brother as he would be arrested as soon as he enters his country for not fighting in the war.

His brothers still recovering.

[bennish]

arrested by iraqi police? but why would they arrest him now for not fighting against u.s.? or do you mean he'd be arrested by coallition forces for not helping?  :?:

[Looby]

Strewth!!  I thought it was only activesync 4.0 that got everybody so hot under the collar. There's not much anyone can do other than not vote but then a law would be introduced to make it illegal not to. It's so very sad.

[mcwarre]

Peeps,


It's all about Oil. Full Stop. I have been (am) in the UK millitary for 17 years. Oil is the most precious commodity in the world today. People/Nations will fight for that. Full Stop. Cos it is so obvious, that I am glad that I am leaving the military soon and not having to put up with political b*ll*x

[benzo]

mcwarre, on Nov 19 2005, 22:46, said:

Peeps,
It's all about Oil. Full Stop. I have been (am) in the UK millitary for 17 years. Oil is the most precious commodity in the world today. People/Nations will fight for that. Full Stop. Cos it is so obvious, that I am glad that I am leaving the military soon and not having to put up with political b*ll*x

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good luck to you.

I respect you even more after seeing those soldiers in Iraq beat those kids up and the camera man laughing and encouraging them today on the news,. You are an asset to the army- 'tis a shame the government pushed you away with their pretense and lies.

Again, good luck!

[fraser]

benzo, don't moan at the squaddies. They are just being squaddies in a time of war. Just wait til the rape stories start to filter through. These types of incidents are common to all wars, ask any historian. This is what war does to people. It's well documented and all of those who pushed for this war are 100% to blame and should have known better. War is NOTHING like it is portrayed in hollywood, except the odd movie now and them that hits the nail on the head.

War is always messy. Blair is either ignorant of that, or he simply doesn't care. I hope the pillow suffed with Harliburton stock helps him to sleep more easilly.

ps The torture stuff is also well documented. Look up The Milgram Experiment to see what "ordinary" people of the street are capable of. Fascinating & terrifying stuff. 65% of people tested would inflict fatal electric shocks as punishment when told to do so by an authority figure.

The innocent deathtool in Iraq is 32,000+. USA casualties 3,000. Iraq and "combatant" deaths are not being counted, but must surely be greater than 32,000, unless you want to admit we are killing more innocents than genuine fighters. The Islamic word now hates the west even more, and the UK is now a big Islamic terrorist target. All thanks to Bush and Blair.

Fraser. With a big I TOLD YOU SO!!

Edited by fraser, 17 February 2006 - 03:50 PM.

[Pondrew]

fraser, on Feb 17 2006, 15:18, said:

ps The torture stuff is also well documented. Look up The Milgram Experiment to see what "ordinary" people of the street are capable of. Fascinating & terrifying stuff. 65% of people tested would inflict fatal electric shocks as punishment when told to do so by an authority figure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow. That takes me back to when I was doing 'A' Level Psychology! A shocking study for sure...  :shock:

[leviking]

For.

[jeddy1]

WELL GUYS I READ JUST FEW POSTS! SORRY FOR CAPSLOCK
SO I AM SORRY SAYING THIS BUT FOOKING PRESIDENTS OF U.S.A DID ALL THIS JUST BE OF OIL AND MONEY AND WHATEVER.
WHY? SO BUSH AND +++++ OTHERS TO GET THEIR POCKETS FULL OF MONEY AND WHATEVER SO THEY HAVE NICE LIFE AND OTHER PEOPLE GOES TO WAR AND FIGHT FOR THEIR LIFE AND THE BUGS OF BUSH GIVING THEM WHILE BUSH WERE SITTING ON HIS COUCH WATCHING TV AND DRINKING WINE!!!
WELL I KNOW ALSO FEW YEARS AGO RENAULT CREATED A CAR WICH COULD WORK ONLY WITH BATTERY AND SUNLIGHT!!
WELL U.S.A DESTROYED THE COMPANY WITH 100 NEW CARS JUST CREATED (BUILDED) IN IT...
WHY??? BEC BUSH NEEDED TO WIN MONEY FROM OIL... SINCE IRAQ AND U.S.A DIDNT AGREED THEN BUSH STARTED WAR
OF COURSE BIN LADEN WASNT AN ANGEL BUT I THINK THIS WAR SHOULDNT EVEN START FROM THE BEGIN..
FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYONE!
CHEERS