Guest clive_j Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 How are people powering their Vegas in-car? Is it up to being plugged straight into the cigarette / cigar lighter socket? ceemjay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lesd Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 How are people powering their Vegas in-car? Is it up to being plugged straight into the cigarette / cigar lighter socket? ceemjay Unlikely! The Vega has a 7.6V battery, and 12V is too much. You can get buy a 9V power adapter from Maplin for about a tenner. But don't leave it plugged in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simonta Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Unlikely! The Vega has a 7.6V battery, and 12V is too much. You can get buy a 9V power adapter from Maplin for about a tenner. But don't leave it plugged in. The Vega charger needs 12v (just read the label on the supplied charger). The charging circuit takes care of the step down. 9v is unlikely to do a good job. You need something like this: http://www.canakit.com/12v-car-cigarette-lighter-adapter.html Just make sure that it's centre positive (and most are) and of course that the tip fits! Out of interest, if anyone still has their Vega open, can you see a chip near the power input labelled LM3622 or similar? There may also be a standalone transistor nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IanTurner Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 http://android.modaco.com/topic/327141-charging-by-usb-car-charger/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lesd Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 The Vega charger needs 12v (just read the label on the supplied charger). The charging circuit takes care of the step down. 9v is unlikely to do a good job. You need something like this: Just make sure that it's centre positive (and most are) and of course that the tip fits! Out of interest, if anyone still has their Vega open, can you see a chip near the power input labelled LM3622 or similar? There may also be a standalone transistor nearby. I stand corrected. Should have gone to specsavers ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clive_j Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Thanks for all the responses so far but I should probably have expanded on my question! As far as I can tell the plug required for the Vega is 1.7x4mm and are available at Maplins. I have bought some and are seemingly a good fit. My question was really has anyone tried plugging a suitable cable directly from the cigar lighter to the Vega? Can it handle up to 13.8V without any problems? Is anyone actually doing it? Thanks ceemjay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IanTurner Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Note in the thread link I posted folks bought this. which has the right connector for the vega and works apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clive_j Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) Note in the thread link I posted folks bought this. which has the right connector for the vega and works apparently That has circuitry inside to limit the output voltage to 12V. I have cigar lighter plugs, cable and now the Advent plugs and can wield a soldering iron. I have made cables for several other "12V" devices and run them straight off the car battery (which can output up to ca 13.8V) - but none as expensive as the Vega!! Hence I keen to find out if others have done this succesfully. ceemjay Edited August 7, 2011 by clive_j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arnookie Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) That has circuitry inside to limit the output voltage to 12V. I have cigar lighter plugs, cable and now the Advent plugs and can wield a soldering iron. I have made cables for several other "12V" devices and run them straight off the car battery (which can output up to ca 13.8V) - but none as expensive as the Vega!! Hence I keen to find out if others have done this succesfully. ceemjay No please don't risk this at all. It will more than likely blow the charge controller inside the vega. It's the volts and amps that need to be met. The car charger done this way will probably supply to high amps / mah. I would suggest you ask in store about a car charger and get the correct one. Unless you can find one for car charging that states the same output as the wall charger. amps + volts mah. must all meet the wall charger output. : O) Hope that saves you blowing up your Vega. ;O) Edited August 8, 2011 by arnookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simonta Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) No please don't risk this at all. It will more than likely blow the charge controller inside the vega. It's the volts and amps that need to be met. The car charger done this way will probably supply to high amps / mah. I would suggest you ask in store about a car charger and get the correct one. Unless you can find one for car charging that states the same output as the wall charger. amps + volts mah. must all meet the wall charger output. : O) Hope that saves you blowing up your Vega. ;O) No, no, no. I can't believe how many times "too high amps" is touted. A power supply does not supply "amps", it supplies volts. The amps (current) drawn is determined by the device drawing power. Any circuit will have an apparent resistance (or impedance) on the input. Assuming that resistance stays the same across the voltage range and that the insulation of components does not break down, then the current drawn is simply determined by Ohms law. If you double the voltage, the current drawn will double. If you halve the voltage, the current drawn will halve - V=IR (volts=current x resistance). This is overly simplistic as heating effects will change the resistance and smart charging circuits vary the impedance to control the output but is broadly true. Drop the voltage much below 12v and the charger will simply fail to charge. At a certain voltage under 12v, it will just shut down altogether and the battery will not charge at all. Increase the voltage above 12v and at some point, the current drawn will fry something as the temperature shoots up or the insulation of some component will fail and cause a short. The Vega charger is rated at 1 amp for 12V. This means that you can draw up to 1 amp of current and remain within it's design limits. In reality (and I've never measured it) the Vega will draw less than 1 amp as 12v, my guess is 600-700mA. If you replaced it with a charger rated at 100 amps at 12v, the Vega would still draw exactly the same current (because the current drawn is determined by the demand of the charger and the voltage, nothing else) and both Vega and charger will be absolutely fine. If you used a charger rated much less than 1A, say 500mA, then the likely outcome is that the charger will melt or pop a fuse as the Vega tries to draw its 700mA (or whatever it may be). So the voltage is the key factor and the current rating of the supply is simply it's safety factor. Back to the key question, will the Vega be OK at 13.8v. My guess is yes and I'm so confident, I will connect my variable supply at 14v and leave it for a few hours and report back. Why am I so confident? Because pushing the voltage to 14v is only an increase of about 17%. These things generally have a design tolerance of about 25-30%, high quality stuff probably 50%. For absolute confidence, I suspect that others on this forum are already running their Vegas straight off the cigarette lighter socket. Is Trevor around? Edited August 8, 2011 by simonta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IanTurner Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 These things generally have a design tolerance of about 25-30% Having once owned an Abit motherboard picked for its expansion potential which included a feature whereby placing a power demand in excess of the stated standard for USB ports would cause it to go bang I wouldn't be quite so confident (usb broadband modem manufacturers had tolerances on their devices so lenient that they would cheerfully exceed that limit hence my first router purchase at that time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clive_j Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 No, no, no. I can't believe how many times "too high amps" is touted. A power supply does not supply "amps", it supplies volts. The amps (current) drawn is determined by the device drawing power. Any circuit will have an apparent resistance (or impedance) on the input. Assuming that resistance stays the same across the voltage range and that the insulation of components does not break down, then the current drawn is simply determined by Ohms law. If you double the voltage, the current drawn will double. If you halve the voltage, the current drawn will halve - V=IR (volts=current x resistance). This is overly simplistic as heating effects will change the resistance and smart charging circuits vary the impedance to control the output but is broadly true. Drop the voltage much below 12v and the charger will simply fail to charge. At a certain voltage under 12v, it will just shut down altogether and the battery will not charge at all. Increase the voltage above 12v and at some point, the current drawn will fry something as the temperature shoots up or the insulation of some component will fail and cause a short. The Vega charger is rated at 1 amp for 12V. This means that you can draw up to 1 amp of current and remain within it's design limits. In reality (and I've never measured it) the Vega will draw less than 1 amp as 12v, my guess is 600-700mA. If you replaced it with a charger rated at 100 amps at 12v, the Vega would still draw exactly the same current (because the current drawn is determined by the demand of the charger and the voltage, nothing else) and both Vega and charger will be absolutely fine. If you used a charger rated much less than 1A, say 500mA, then the likely outcome is that the charger will melt or pop a fuse as the Vega tries to draw its 700mA (or whatever it may be). So the voltage is the key factor and the current rating of the supply is simply it's safety factor. Back to the key question, will the Vega be OK at 13.8v. My guess is yes and I'm so confident, I will connect my variable supply at 14v and leave it for a few hours and report back. Why am I so confident? Because pushing the voltage to 14v is only an increase of about 17%. These things generally have a design tolerance of about 25-30%, high quality stuff probably 50%. For absolute confidence, I suspect that others on this forum are already running their Vegas straight off the cigarette lighter socket. Is Trevor around? Thanks simonta - I had though about posting a similar response but pleased you beat me to it. I'm not sure why I am reluctant just to try it! I had assumed I would get a speedy response as others would already be doing it (or someone had looked at the components inside and decided not too!). Anyway just invested 99p in a voltage regulator to be on the safe side should your test or others' experiences prove it necessary. Cheers ceemjay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simonta Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Thanks simonta - I had though about posting a similar response but pleased you beat me to it. I'm not sure why I am reluctant just to try it! I had assumed I would get a speedy response as others would already be doing it (or someone had looked at the components inside and decided not too!). Anyway just invested 99p in a voltage regulator to be on the safe side should your test or others' experiences prove it necessary. Cheers ceemjay Well, I've had my Vega on 14v (actually, put my multimeter inline and it's drawing about 470mA right now and 13.4v across the terminals. No ill effects. Battery temp is OK, voltage sitting around 8v, no discernible temp increase on the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lesd Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Thanks simonta - I had though about posting a similar response but pleased you beat me to it. I'm not sure why I am reluctant just to try it! I had assumed I would get a speedy response as others would already be doing it (or someone had looked at the components inside and decided not too!). Anyway just invested 99p in a voltage regulator to be on the safe side should your test or others' experiences prove it necessary. Cheers ceemjay Just a word of warning. Cars are electrically noisy environments, and get worse as they get older. The difficulty is that the 'earth' return corrodes and inductive components then cause high voltage spikes. If you want to risk your £200 Vega for the sake of a £10 power regulator including the right connectors and surge protection, which is also capable of powering your phone (but not at the same time) that's your choice. BTW,The 12V Vega supply is unregulated, which means the voltage can drop to 64% of 12V, about 7.6V, when fully loaded. Right now, my Vega is charging perfectly from a 9V supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest User_x4pro Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 After reading this ill post how I charge my Vega in the car! Before I got a Vega I used to have a laptop, so I invested in asimilar product http://www.max.tv/Automotive/Power-Inverter.aspx that's how I do it:) !!! Easy peasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clive_j Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Just a word of warning. Cars are electrically noisy environments, and get worse as they get older. The difficulty is that the 'earth' return corrodes and inductive components then cause high voltage spikes. If you want to risk your £200 Vega for the sake of a £10 power regulator including the right connectors and surge protection, which is also capable of powering your phone (but not at the same time) that's your choice. BTW,The 12V Vega supply is unregulated, which means the voltage can drop to 64% of 12V, about 7.6V, when fully loaded. Right now, my Vega is charging perfectly from a 9V supply. While I do agree with what you have written I have never had anything damaged - not even the 12V-USB adaptors from Poundland and I have lost count of how many 12V devices I have directly cabled (ie without any intervening circuitry) whether Garmin GPS, various amateur radio transceivers etc. Maybe I've just been lucky! Still no replies from anyone directly connecting though. ceemjay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lesd Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 While I do agree with what you have written I have never had anything damaged - not even the 12V-USB adaptors from Poundland and I have lost count of how many 12V devices I have directly cabled (ie without any intervening circuitry) whether Garmin GPS, various amateur radio transceivers etc. Maybe I've just been lucky! Still no replies from anyone directly connecting though. ceemjay I have a long history of working with vehicle borne computer based systems, so maybe I've just seen more than my fair share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shirecom Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I took the easy way out and used a 12 volt inverter I purchased from Maplin and just plug the normal mains controller in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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