Guest droric Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Actually its now 2 people who have had the SOD with the Tytn II, myself and another poster above + many more who have HTC Wizards, Tytns, G900s etc. If it is actually faulty there must be quite a high failure rate, across all devices I mean. You haven't really commented about the "Shipping ROM not quite perfect" link http://www.htcwiki.com/page/Known+Issues?t=anon specifically for the Tytn but maybe applicable which says Resetting at least once every 2 to 3 days is the current recommendation. I guess you think its either unrelated, that they fixed the problem ages ago or that its been mentioned on that official "known issues" wiki as a work around so that HTC can get out of replacing as many defective units as possible. I don't agree with you either Nick, i have a wizard and have had it running fine, using gprs to access the internet via opera, using java apps including games, text messaging etcetera and haven't had to soft reset it for weeks. As long as you have a stable windows mobile rom such as mature WM6 roms and mature WM5 roms you should theoretically never have to soft reset the device. I agree that you should return the device and try again, if we all are wrong you incure the shipping costs but at least you will have piece of mind that your device is not faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Webreaper Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 You haven't really commented about the "Shipping ROM not quite perfect" link http://www.htcwiki.com/page/Known+Issues?t=anon specifically for the Tytn but maybe applicable which says Resetting at least once every 2 to 3 days is the current recommendation. I guess you think its either unrelated, that they fixed the problem ages ago or that its been mentioned on that official "known issues" wiki as a work around so that HTC can get out of replacing as many defective units as possible. I haven't commented because that link it entirely irrelevant for two reasons: 1. That is merely a statement made by HTC to cover their arses. Show me a statement on Microsoft's site where they say "hey, yeah, we wrote WM5 in such a shoddy way that it's totally flaky, but rather than admit this or fix it, we recommend you reboot your device every 2-3 days". ;) Similarly, a lot of people claim that you get better performance from an XP/Vista machine if you reboot it daily, but that doesn't mean that the OS is designed to be restarted that regularly (quite the opposite). It stands to reason that memory fragmentation etc will be less if you restart your device frequently, but that's a whole different thing to saying it must be restarted to avoid it hanging or crashing. As I've said before, I've done a lot of PPC development, and owned an XDA Mini S for nearly 2 years, and whilst the odd reset does make it a bit snappier, it certainly was never mandatory to stop the device crashing. 2. The TyTnI and TyTnII are entirely different devices. They're not even close The I has half the RAM/ROM of the II, and they're both based on entirely different chipsets. But most importantly, the former is on WM5, the latter on WM6. WM5 is known to have some memory-management issues if you run too many apps, whereas these are largely resolved in WM6 - and anecdotal experience (including my own) bears this out already. So to link to some manufacturer page relating to a device with a different chipset, different specs, different OS and which recommends a restart every 2-3 days (not daily as you suggest) is totally spurious. Anyway, I've tried to explain why I know you're wrong, and tried to help you. But you're clearly determined to put up with your device problems rather than resolve them. So I'll leave it here, as this discussion is going nowhere. But for the record, I'll just point out that I've not hard-reset my Kaiser now since last Thursday (when I installed a new version of PhoneAlarm, which requires a reset). In the last 6 days I've been using the device for FTP, SatNav, web-browsing and email via 3G and GPRS, terminal services, and a whole host of other stuff. It's still running like a dream. Jealous? :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick Le Lievre Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) But for the record, I'll just point out that I've not hard-reset my Kaiser now since last Thursday (when I installed a new version of PhoneAlarm, which requires a reset). In the last 6 days I've been using the device for FTP, SatNav, web-browsing and email via 3G and GPRS, terminal services, and a whole host of other stuff. It's still running like a dream. Jealous? ;) No I`ve had perfect performance out of my Tytn II since last Tuesday...(9 days) I`ve soft reset it 9 times intentionally but its been fine since. Thats good enough for me... a soft reset is a good thing only takes a few seconds. By the way I recommended resetting more then once every 2-3 days ie everyday but the recommendation is once every 2-3 days... you can reset it once every 2-3 days if you like thats still my point that regular resets are required. EDIT: Just noticed you said you`ve not *hard reset* it since last Thursday... well I`ve not *hard reset* mine at all... was that a typo do you actually mean a you've not soft resetted it for 6 days??? Edited September 20, 2007 by Nick Le Lievre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TomaHawk Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) Nick i am sure we could club together and pay for the postage to return your device. cos quite a few of us probably feel bad you have a defective unit. Edited September 20, 2007 by TomaHawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick Le Lievre Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Nick i am sure we could club together and pay for the postage to return your device. cos quite a few of us probably feel bad you have a defective unit. Thanks for your concern it is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Webreaper Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) EDIT: Just noticed you said you`ve not *hard reset* it since last Thursday... well I`ve not *hard reset* mine at all... was that a typo do you actually mean a you've not soft resetted it for 6 days??? Ooops, yes, I mean soft-reset (i.e., press-hold the power switch until prompted "you may lose your data" and press OK, device vibrates, shows 'smart-mobility' and windows mobile logos, then prompts for PIN, and the starts up). So correcting myself: I've not reset my Kaiser at all since last Thursday. In the last 6 days I've been using the device for FTP, SatNav, web-browsing and email via 3G and GPRS, terminal services, and a whole host of other stuff. It's still running like a dream. You say soft-reset only takes 'a few seconds'? Although it's significantly faster with the Kaiser than my Wizard (due to WM6 being more optimal, or maybe just the quicker CPU, or a combination of both, I don't know...), it still takes something at least 30s, and probably nearer a minute - although I've never timed it. Edited September 20, 2007 by Webreaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ckindel Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Got my Kaiser last Friday. Worked like a champ through the weekend. Sunday night I encountered my first SOD. Device would not "turn on" from standby. LEDs were flashing, keyboard backlight would come on, but the screen was blank and no input appeared to work. Reset was the only way to get it working again. Over the last 2 days it has done this several (4-5?) times. This evening things got worse. I was taking notes and wanted to swtich to keyboard/landscape mode. The device refused to respond (stayed in portrait mode). The power button no longer functioned (unless I held it down for 5 min, then it would pop up asking if I wanted to reset). Soft reset/reboot did not fix this problem (e.g. power button and landscape keyboard/landscape mode failed to work after a reset). Even after removing the battery and replacing it. I literally could not turn the device off (other than by reseting it). Got home, logged on here and started reading. About 20 minutes in, for kicks I reset the device again. Now it's working fine. Suspect I have a hardware problem? Sigh. I'm requesting an RMA to get a new unit as this one is clearly. Bad. All the probelms listed above have occured again today. This is so far from what could be expected as "normal" behavior that for someone to suggest "that's just how it is" is laughable. I have enough experience with WM devices (I work at MS, so that's all I've used since the very first PocketPC's came out over a decade ago) to know this is a HW problem with this unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ves Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 I'm requesting an RMA to get a new unit as this one is clearly. Bad. All the probelms listed above have occured again today. This is so far from what could be expected as "normal" behavior that for someone to suggest "that's just how it is" is laughable. I have enough experience with WM devices (I work at MS, so that's all I've used since the very first PocketPC's came out over a decade ago) to know this is a HW problem with this unit. I don't think anybody said that what happend in your above quote is "normal" behavior or "that's how is is" . No sane person would say that would the problems you got with your phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick Le Lievre Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) I don't think anybody said that what happend in your above quote is "normal" behavior or "that's how is is" . No sane person would say that would the problems you got with your phone Having said that my phone works fine if I reset it daily (maybe even only once every 2 days). I haven't had an SOD or any other problems with the phone hanging unexpectedly in 10 days now so for me, there is a workaround. Its strange that the phone works if you reset it daily isn't it? If there was a bad block of memory somewhere surely I`d encounter the problem even after doing resets, unless of course as someone suggested it was a way out from the starting point when the machine writes to RAM in sequence. Therefore it could take me days to encounter the problem again and by resetting it everyday the memory is being cleared. If this was the case then for other people the reset might not work as the bad memory block could be closer to the starting point or even further away unless the same memory block fails on all devices afflicted. EDIT: I just tried to fill up the memory on my device. The lowest I could get it down to was 45mb free with 55mb in use I put it into standby then took it out again - no problems. I cannot reproduce a crash on the device having reset it this morning. It hasn't failed to come out of standby in 10 days. Edited September 21, 2007 by Nick Le Lievre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James Muir Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 When I finish a call on the Kaiser the backlight goes off and stays off I cannot access the Start menu. I can access all other functions but backlight stays off and still cant get into the Start menu from anywhere. I have to press the power off button quickly once and then wait a second, press it again to be able to access the start button or the light to come on. This is definitely a bug in the tytn two and I hope HTC is doing something about this as it is very annoying. I have had a similar problem where the backlight timeout continually resets to 10 seconds. Anyone else have this issue. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Solar Hydro Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) Hello all, I think that I am also a 'standby of death' (SOD) casualty. My HTC TyTN II worked fine for a week. Now the only way to turn in ON is to reset (using stylus in the little hole at the bottom); the only way to turn it OFF is to pres the ON/OFF button 5 sec. Note that I experienced a similar freeze of the camera button (only once until now, I don't use it much). Otherwise, once it's ON, it works fine. I guess that I'll do a hard reset this weekend to see if that changes something. I hope I won't lose my TomTom licence as a consequence. Any suggestions are welcome (it's hard to search on these messageboards). Solar Hydro Edited September 21, 2007 by Solar Hydro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick Le Lievre Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) Hello all, I think that I am also a 'standby of death' (SOD) casualty. My HTC TyTN II worked fine for a week. Now the only way to turn in ON is to reset (using stylus in the little hole at the bottom); the only way to turn it OFF is to pres the ON/OFF button 5 sec. Note that I experienced a similar freeze of the camera button (only once until now, I don't use it much). Otherwise, once it's ON, it works fine. I guess that I'll do a hard reset this weekend to see if that changes something. I hope I won't lose my TomTom licence as a consequence. Solar Hydro At first don't try hard resets just do frequent soft resets (ie once every 1-2 days with the stylus in the hole in the bottom or press + hold power for 5 secs) that should prevent you getting anymore unexpected SODs... it works for me and is best described as a workaround. You may not be happy with this as a solution and will want a replacement. I don't think Hard resetting your device will get rid of SOD permanently it will just be as effective as one soft reset. With a soft reset you don't lose any installed programs. Edited September 21, 2007 by Nick Le Lievre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TomaHawk Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 My HTC TyTN II worked fine for a week. Now the only way to turn in ON is to reset (using stylus in the little hole at the bottom); the only way to turn it OFF is to pres the ON/OFF button 5 sec. send it back if you would like a functioning unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick Le Lievre Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 send it back if you would like a functioning unit. Mine functions thanks - I`ve been using it for 10 days now without an SOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Solar Hydro Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) I am now experiencing further deterioration. When I leave the phone ON, the phone is unusable, even though memory is OK. I even missed 2 calls that went to voicemail, and I can't even call voicemail! I'll do the hard reset and if it happens again, return it. The place I bought it from has been warned and is cooperative. Solar Hydro Edited September 21, 2007 by Solar Hydro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick Le Lievre Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) I am now experiencing further deterioration. When I leave the phone ON, the phone is unusable, even though memory is OK. I even missed 2 calls that went to voicemail, and I can't even call voicemail! I'll do the hard reset and if it happens again, return it. The place I bought it from has been warned and is cooperative. Solar Hydro I don't think the SOD is the beggining of the end for your phone... my phone functions 100% ok in all respects and I have had the SOD. There is no problem calling/recieving although I have no credit in my phone and when I try to make a call it tells me I have no credit. I can call the credit info line ok too but apart from that I have made no calls yet - I have recieved 3 OK. I wouldn't panic and start thinking your phone is dying on you just becuase you have had an SOD... your other problems are most probably unrelated but it seems like its all coming crashing down on you becuase you had the dreaded SOD. Edited September 21, 2007 by Nick Le Lievre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TomaHawk Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Mine functions thanks - I`ve been using it for 10 days now without an SOD. sorry to confuse you, I was talking to solar hence why I quoted his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick Le Lievre Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) sorry to confuse you, I was talking to solar hence why I quoted his post. Well its now 3 people on this forum already who have had the Standby of Death with the Tytn II. How many more will crawl out of the woodwork over the coming weeks/months? Is this a widespread problem or restricted to only a small percentage of units? It doesn't seem to be as bad as the G900 where everybody seemed to have the problem. I would say to any potential buyer of the Tytn II not to let the possibility of getting a troublesome unit put you off buying one. There is a workaround (however unacceptable it may be) which is to soft reset the unit every 1-2 days. I have had 10 days of perfect system behaviour out of mine since abiding by the workaround and I`ve only had mine 16 days. The first 6 days were before I knew of the workaround. I would throughly recommend the device even though I have had the SOD problem... its only a minor annoyance IMO because of the workaround. If there was no workaround then it would be a major annoyance. Edited September 21, 2007 by Nick Le Lievre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drokkon Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Well its now 3 people on this forum already who have had the Standby of Death with the Tytn II. How many more will crawl out of the woodwork over the coming weeks/months? Is this a widespread problem or restricted to only a small percentage of units? It doesn't seem to be as bad as the G900 issue where everybody seemed to have the problem. So this was a great idea for a thread - I needed to hear a few of the things wrong with the TyTN II, since all I ever read was glowing reviews. But this SOD feud has hijacked the thread, and I'm afraid all the valuable contributors have jumped ship. Nick's fine with his phone - can't we be fine with him being fine with his phone? If you think it's a standard "feature" or a widespread problem, Nick, perhaps a TyTN II SOD thread is in order? I'm just sayin'. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick Le Lievre Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 So this was a great idea for a thread - I needed to hear a few of the things wrong with the TyTN II, since all I ever read was glowing reviews. But this SOD feud has hijacked the thread, and I'm afraid all the valuable contributors have jumped ship. Nick's fine with his phone - can't we be fine with him being fine with his phone? If you think it's a standard "feature" or a widespread problem, Nick, perhaps a TyTN II SOD thread is in order? I'm just sayin'. ;) I think if we created a Standby of Death thread it wouldn't get many posts becuase most people who have it don't know what its called and besides it comes under an annoyance so should be posted here. When I was first searching for posts regarding the Standby of Death I was searching for "Tytn II won't turn on" and I came up with nothing... its not untill someone mentioned earlier in this thread about the G900 having the same problem that I found out G900 users had named it the Standby of Death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drokkon Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) I think if we created a Standby of Death thread it wouldn't get many posts becuase most people who have it don't know what its called and besides it comes under an annoyance so should be posted here. When I was first searching for posts regarding the Standby of Death I was searching for "Tytn II won't turn on" and I came up with nothing... its not untill someone mentioned earlier in this thread about the G900 having the same problem that I found out G900 users had named it the Standby of Death. I guess you're right - SOD is an annoyance and should be in this thread. And good job by the G900 users - Standby of Death is a great name for a Microsoft-related stall. ;) I just got tired of page after page of: "return it" "no, it's fine" "you're wrong. return it." "no, you're wrong. it's fine." Ah well. I'll just suffer along until anyone comes up with new annoyances. Speaking of which, anyone have any new annoyances or solutions to old ones? Edited September 21, 2007 by drokkon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Solar Hydro Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Hi, this is an update on my 'standby of death' situation, I ran activesynch before proceeding to my planned hard reset, and suddently everything seems to work fine! (while driving home it was showing critical error pop up messages which I had not seen before) The ONLY difference is that here at home I am down to EDGE, whereas elsewhere I had 3G or HSDPA. I did not change any setting whatsoever. TomTom's specific backup seems to have failed, but is no big deal since I only put 2 locations in it. Now the power and camera buttons work as they did originally and as they are supposed to work... I am VERY puzzled... I guess I will NOT do the hard reset as planned this evening, and see what tomorrow brings. Solar Hydro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SierraDelta Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 Nick, You're in denial - big time!! Get your phone exchanged and stop preaching rubbish, please... Back in post #146 you said: "....and as I say I won't keep posting new replies I`ll just edit this POST over the next days/weeks with my expierience" (my highlighting), what about sticking to that promise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick Le Lievre Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 Nick, You're in denial - big time!! Get your phone exchanged and stop preaching rubbish, please... Back in post #146 you said: "....and as I say I won't keep posting new replies I`ll just edit this POST over the next days/weeks with my expierience" (my highlighting), what about sticking to that promise? 11 days without an SOD says it all I think. I`m not in denial my phone works fine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Solar Hydro Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 11 days without an SOD says it all I think. I`m not in denial my phone works fine!! My TyTN II worked fine today; I used the used camera a bit (surprisingly good pics), phone and e-mail. I guess I benefited from the 'Synch of Life' (SOL) ;-) Solar Hydro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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