What can we do? That's the question!

[Guest Pulse]

Is it annoying you as much as it is me?

This so-called 'update' has made my phone even worse now, and is ruining my smartphone experience.

Surely there are enough of us who are upset with this to be able to do something about it. My question is what?

[Guest biffsmash]

I've emailed orange to ask for a downgrade or a replacement, and later i'm going to phone them. I'm on orange care so basically i'm gonna try and get the phone replaced. Knowing my luck they'll either say no, or the replacement will ship with the new ROM on it >:lol:

In any case, the ROM upgrade is imo a downgrade, and surely there has to be a way to reverse it or revert back to the original ROM???? please! :lol:

Let's hope someone can come up with a master plan to help us downgrade! :)

[Guest kelv23]

I dont have an e200 myself (mpx200) but I'd say from the amount of posts and threads on this that theres a lot of disgruntled people.the more people that let Orange know whats happened since the update the better,maybe someone should gather info and details on how many people are experiencing problems since the update and get it to Orange,maybe through Paul or one of the moderators on the site.this might carry a bit more weight,maybe not.failing that its calls and letters to orange I suppose.

[Guest Pulse]

What's the email for orange? Maybe all people unimpressed with the update could email them. Might be a start.

[Guest drblow]

There's no point m8! I've just been through a very frustrating process with Orange, where I wrote them an email complaining about various issues with my phone/contract. First of all I recieved an automated response, to which I replied saying I didn't want an automated response, I wanted someone at Orange to address my complaints. I then got another short email saying that I could reply to "this" email address (no other email address specified), which I did. I never got another reply, & when I contacted customer services, they told me I had to fax copies of my emails to them so they could deal with it. I explained that I dont have a fax machine, and wanted the correspodence to be doen by email (as I had already recieved an email from them saying I COULD reply to "this" email address. CS said that wasn't the case, & I had to either write by post or fax. Basically, its just their way of fobbing you off.

Lets face it - we are dealing with a company that has no interest in customer service whatsoever. The entire history of Orange smartphones has proven that they consistently fail to listen to customers, or address issues. I am personally at the stage where I can't be bothered complaining to them anymore. Its just a waste of time/breath, which only results in me getting more & more frustrated with the complany/product. It never ceases to amaze me how Orange have made a mess of the entire smartphone market. My only conclusion is that it is a basic lack of proper competition. If there was a wide range of smartphones available, on various networks, then Orange may have to get their act togethre or face losing business, but in the meantime, they know that they have us tied into 12 month contracts, and there is relatively little competition. It doesnt take Einstein to figure out that the average smartphone user is currently prepared to keep a dodgy smartphone, rather than return to a nokia or whatever, so they have us over a barrel! :evil:

Come on motorola - where are you!!?? :twisted:

[Guest lutzh]

hi there,

my level of frustration is also above the needed level - but i dont blame orange for it (since we dont even have orange here in germany). what should orange do when it comes down to dodgy rom updates? they cant write them by themselfes. its like blaming a gas station for a lost exhaust port on your car.

the only thing that you, me, we can do is: dont buy htc smartphones anymore. i made that decision already for myself. i'll keep my e200 till i get a replacement from someone else (samsung, motorola, etc.) that comes wit a equal feature set but a usable rom on board. dont expect that you will ever get a rom update for the e200 that will fix the issues we have. this phone is just simple straight a miss development. you can blame microsoft and orange for the fact that their product manager have let htc go with that crap. every quality manager here in germany would have stopped that product before it would have gone out to a costumer. t-mobile did exactly that and i only can say for good reasons.

stopp buying htc products! dont let anybody else do it. thats it. there was that word saying "friends dont let friends buy palm!". today i have to say "friends dont let friends buy e200's!".

cheers. lutz

ps: of course, thats just my personal view of the things. but i am so god damn p!ssed, i cant tell you....

[Guest Coucou]

HTC? I'd only blame them for build quality issues, surely microsoft and orange have got to carry the can for software? And probably more Orange as Motorola seem to have the software in better shape. The fact they also seem to have better build quality is a separate issue.

[Guest Pulse]

Lets face it - we are dealing with a company that  has no interest in customer service whatsoever.

Yes! That says it ALL in one line.

[Guest Disco Stu]

Back on topic, if Paul (MVP after all) and the other, no doubt equally as qualified, beta-testers can't get things sorted then we lesser mortals have no chance :evil:

I'm with lutzh on this one

[Guest Rob.P]

lutzh has got it right, don't buy anymore HTC phones, this is definately gonna be my last, after the update I now find my call quality infuriating, I wouldn't mind if I'd had a problem with it before the update but I didn't, it was the best call quality I've ever had out of a phone.

I hope Motorola or other more reliable product manufacturers have better phones out when I can upgrade, just a shame I have to wait too many months until I can cancel and switch to a network that might treat their customers a bit better or at least acknowledge them, which would be a damn sight more than we get from Orange.

Mr.O if you are reading this, I'm throughly disgusted with your company and with that, my word of mouth will no longer be in your companies favour. Better keep an eye on that ARPU cause it's gonna slide downhill soon :evil:

[Guest londonlad]

yep, im with that! no more htc phones, hope, mpx220 is released on other networks too

[Guest Pulse]

Yeah, I'm happy with that. I wont buy another HTC smartphone.

[Guest lutzh]

waiting sucks totally. but on the other hand it gives htc time to work on the issues. and i am always open to change my mind when i see that i am wrong. but in this case i very much believe that it cant be fixed. i have a later release of that rom update on my phone (2.6.5.3 for those who want to check) and it still suffers on battery standby. and at the moment i have the feeling that not bluetooth nor the sd card is the real battery sucker but the gprs - or better said the active radio stack. and this looks pretty much like a problem of the combination hardware/rom/feature that htc is not able to fix.

i see my self very much as a brain connector. i know alot of very good coders around the planet that would be able to make a rom that doesnt have this problems. but neither htc or microsoft are interested to hear our points. thats a shame. this is what makes me really upset and leads to a frustration that may end up in my turn around regarding the plattform. no big loss for htc/ms or who ever, i know. but as we can see in this topic: the level of frustration is rising and its not only me beginning to think about my (hardly paid) living betatester status.

you know for us here in germany getting a windows powered smartphone means that we have to pay for the full device price since they are not sold by any carrier here. so its 500 or even 600 euro per unit (my first e200 costs me 800 euros, just because i wanted it so badly - that shows my commitment to the technology i guess). but seeing, how less the manufacturers using this specific place here to see where the problems are and even in some cases how to fix them simply breaks every positive emotion.

well, what else can i say? before you stuff a phone with functionallity you should make sure that it fits basic needs. like at least three days of use without charging... dear htc, call me if you have it. but you better use land line since my e200 will probably be off for a empty battery...

cheers, lutz

ps: damn i know so well that i cant switch to a nokia anymore because i like the plattform so much. it really seems like they put something in it that makes me a smartphone addict....

[Guest Pulse]

I would be happy if they would just release the original ROM. Cant be that hard, surely?

[Guest drblow]

Guys - I SO know what everybody is saying, & I feel exactly the same way, but I reckon we are wasting time & energy complaining about these problems anymore on the forum.

Unfortunately for us, the relationship between Orange/Mr. Orange & this forum means nothing for the users. After a lengthy absence, Mr. O only appears to make a few comments (all of which were just pointless marketing soundbites) about the new ROM, and of course, now that it's released & everybody is complaining about it, there's no sign of him.

& considering that the ROM has addressed issues which have been raised on this forum (they obviously did TRY to fixz the buzz albeit in a totally crap way), then we can assume that Orange staff/Mr. Orange DO read the forum - they just don't care! Either that, or the entire company is so incompetent that they really thought this ROM was good (I find that impossible to believe, which means it logically must be that they really couldn't care less).

Make no mistake, it IS Orange who create the ROM updates. Nothing to do with MS or HTC, only Orange. So it's purely down to them that we are all so dissatisfied with the products. It seems recently that the forum is literally peppered with posts about how poor Orange/HTC devices are, how unhappy everybody is with their products/updates, and how everybody wants some better standard of service. Orange either dont care in the slightest, or dont take part in the forum anymore - simple as that. & if you are reading this Mr. Orange - then I challenge you to make any kind of comment about the current state of affairs.

What we should do is send emails to motorola's marketing dept - giving links to these threads. I know if I worked for them, I'd take the comments here as being a pretty good sign that when the next moto with SP2003 comes out, it's going to very quickly mean the end of HTC devices for good.

[Guest Pulse]

Yep, I definitely agree with you there drblow. Orange obviously are one of the 2. Incompetent or just dont care. Or a mix of the 2 perhaps. I think we most probably are wasting our time saying anything on the forum, but it's venting anger rather than asking someone to do anything I beleive. Or at least it is for me. I'm angry with the update, which has made my phone WORSE, and has not even improved the battery life! I feel they will lose a lot of users because of this, and I do mean both orange and htc here. I certainly dont think moto have anything to worry about...

[Guest Bonzo]

Well there are so many truisms being said here and so many people who's views I agree with it's hard to know what to say!!!

I don't know the whole process of getting an update for hardware like this signed off and made available but U have to assume that as it's not core software being played around with as such it's a case of the vendor, (Orange), going back to the developer, (HTC), with a list of points to be addressed... the update is coded and released for beta testing... after this stage is complete and the developer is happy they sign it off and pass it to the vendor who in turn have to sign it off and more than likely then it has to go back to the platform manufacturer for them to asses the impact on thir software and sign it off before it can be released... And if any one person decides it's unsatisfactory and they won't sign it off for release to has go thru the whole process again!!! :roll:

So as it's been said here the initial problems which people here were very vocal about when the phone was released, have been addressed in this upgrade, (and I have to agree not in the best way for the most part!!!), and over time as things have been found and brought up they have been included in the ROM, (like the SD card maybe being a drain on the battery), and it's been unleashed... But it would seem certain issues were not found by anyone thru the beta testing phase, (like the SD card lock up issue!), this does kind of beg the question how many minor coding changes were added to the ROM AFTER the beta testing phase but prior to release that no one thought would be problematic and who decided it was a good idea to include/alter them???

BUT worst of all... EVEN if some bright spark decides that this is such a contorversial update that there is no choice but to release a downgraded ROM, (but c'mon who can honestly see any of the parties involved in this admitting this and being prepared to take a backwards step?), or for that matter an patch for the new ROM or even a total revision of the new ROM... just how long on past experience will it take to go thru ALL the stages involved and finally filter down to the release stage and get to us, the end users??? THAT is what worries me most... not that things can't be fixed so much as just how long we have to live with this before we can move forward and see it fixed!!! I mean like it's been said Mr Orange has been VERY conspicuous by his absence since the release of this ROM... and OK give the guy the benefit of the doubt and lets say he is here watching, taking notes and frantically running around trying to get things moving when do we get any kind of admission that things have not quite gone to plan and that there are bigger issues now that need to be addressed as soon as possible!!!

Happy with the WM platform? Well yes it still does all I want it to & more

Happy with the hardware?? Ehhhh ish I guess

Happy with the basic functionality and implementation of the hardware??? Getting less and less so :)

Happy with the availability and level of CS... Errrm well what do U think! :evil:

Frustrated & stressed? Damn Straight :cry:

[Guest PhilA]

Maybe it's just me, but I have had no problems at all since the update (didn't have that many before!) - battery life is great (charged it 14 hours ago, made about 1/2 hours worth of calls and it's still at 75% or so), SMS works fine, GPRS works fine, got used to the ClearType, and I am really happy with both the phone, and Customer Services. I am on a business account, though, with a different CS number, so I don't know if that makes a difference. However, anyone who thinks O's CS is bad should try three's!!

[Guest drblow]

I think we most probably are wasting our time saying anything on the forum, but it's venting anger rather than asking someone to do anything I beleive.

Totally m8! I know where you're comin from. & don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to in any way discourage people from complaining about/to Orange about these things - Jeez, I don't know what I'd sepnd my time doing if it wasn't for moaning about Orange! :shock: This is the only place where you will get a sympathetic response!!

& I think it's important that we don't get complacent, and keep whining about it on the forum - surely Orange MUST be reading some of this stuff - surely motorola must be aware of the amount of seriously bad press Orange has had here recently?? Surely motorola are going to give me a free MPx100 for the great job I'm doing for them!! :twisted:

I just don't expect to EVER get a reasonable response from Orange/Mr. Orange on this forum anymore. If there is any kind of reply, it'll be something like "we are working on these GLITCHES ... no ETA ... " you know the kind of thing. Ther sort of stuff you can predict they would say anyway, but falling well short of real information or substance.

[Guest Jay247]

I'm with PhilA here-- I'm a business customer, and Orange CS is one of the best I've ever come across for customer relations. The update does what it claims it does for battery life and speech quality-- and after 2 days with ClearType I totally got used to it (now it looks strange when I turn it off actually).

If you're not happy with the handset, give it back and get another one-- simple as that. If you're not happy with Orange, who's stopping you from joining any of the other providers? My SPV E200 was given to me by Orange for free because my contract was up, and for a free handset it's a great gadget! Nice "new toy" for the next few months until the next "new toy" comes out. It troubles me that so many people make the E200 a life-and-death issue: I mean look at the speed at which these phones are released-- a new one every 6 months! It's not meant to be perfect, it's not meant to last a lifetime. I'm sure all the issues that have been brought up in this and other forums WILL be addressed-- but probably not by another ROM upgrade. They'll be part of the "E300" or a forthcoming 3G version thereof.

And while we're all waiting for that one to be released, please remember it's not all doom&gloom with the E200. It's got many many positive aspects as well, and so does Orange.

[Guest Rusty]

Jay247 - a lot of people on here are personal customers (myself included) who cannot afford, or refuse to pay to upgrade a phone when they are still inside their 12month contract. I'm quite sure if i phoned Orange tomorrow and said they could have their phone back, as per your suggestion, they would only too happily oblige, providing i also paid the rest of my contract off - not really a sensible option is it? and why should i do this, just because Orange can't provide a phone that does what it says on the tin???

Also, i am most definitely not happy with Orange, and yes, nobody is stopping me from going out and joining one of the other providers. What IS stopping me though is the same reason as above - to do that would mean that i would still have to pay Orange all the monthly payments owed in the contract, leaving me, once again, in a scenario where i'd be seriously out of pocket - not really a sensible option is it? and why should i do this, just because Orange can't provide a phone that does what it says on the tin???

Yes, the phone is a nice gadget, yes it has many positive aspects, but when all said and done, this thing that you describe as a 'toy' i have to use for 12 months unless i want to seriously lose out financially, it'd be nice for it to do what it is supposed to do and what Orange said it would do.

If you can afford to throw money away on phone upgrades every 3-6 months then good luck to you, personally i can neither afford to do this, nor see any good reason to do it and i'm sure most people would be of the same mind. I really can't see why people who have this botch up of a phone, shouldn't expect it's problems to be rectified asap.

I can only imagine you are at best very naive when you suggest that people should expect and put up with faults with their phone, no they're not meant to last a lifetime, but surely it's reasonable to expect it to put in at least some effort into performing as it is supposed to????? Instead we have a phone that was piss poor from day1 and despite a generally well received update, is still failing many people in many areas. Battery life is better now, still not what Orange claimed when they released it. Bluetooth is still poor, sound quality is fine (always was for me) but since the update is very much lacking in volume. SD cards locking phone up etc etc etc. Now some of these things aren't petty issues and detract from the useability of the phone quite considerably and i personally know of no sound reason why i should be expected to accept them, especially when i'm tied to this POS until next January.

I think basically, all i (and i suspect most people) want is a phone that makes a reasonable effort at doing the things it is meant to be capable of. Like most people i'm prepared to put up with minor faults, but there are just too many on this phone atm and Orange just don't seem to give two hoots once they have you tied in.

Regards

Rusty

[Guest Jay247]

Hi Rusty,

I can understand how angry you are about having bought a product that doesn't work for you and now find yourself in a situation where you have to put up with it. But the truth is there ARE other options for you to deal with the situation rather than shout at Orange CS and expect them to solve all your problems. They're a huge apparatus, so use it to your advantage.

You said you knew from day one that the E200 isn't up to the standard you were looking for, so within 14 days just bring it back-- case closed. If you're within 28 days, make up a mistake and have it replaced for a new one. With the E200, you don't even have to make it up... You can even get a different handset if you're still unhappy: as per UK consumer goods act you are entitled to a new or equivalent product, and if you get this new product you have ANOTHER 28 days to return it if it's faulty.

If you're over the 28 days, you can always make up one of the following mistakes:

- keyboard jammed

- display stopped working

- random power failures / battery runs out after 5 hours (fault code FW 101)

- mic stopped working

- speaker stopped working

- doesn't vibrate anymore

- anything, make it up and be creative

After about three replacements you can convince Orange that it's financially more feasable for them to supply you with a different model. If a CS representative wants to tell you you're in the wrong, just say you're sorry-- redial and speak to someone else. Sure it's a pain, but my point is you HAVE this option and eventually you WILL be heard. Just make sure you leave your anger behind when you're dealing with some 18yr old CS bloke in the callcenter who is personally not at fault. Because your handset is kind of "unusable", make sure you dial from a land line or another Orange phone. Instead of 150, try 345 for busniess support and jump the cue.

Last thing-- your contract. As you well know the reason why they can give you a handset for under £300 is because you agree to give them £xx.xx per month for the next year. At the end of the day YOU'RE the man with the money, hence YOU'RE the man with the power. Handset aside, if you really can't stand Orange as a network, you can either buy them out, or you bite the bullet and hang in there until January and leave for good. The other option is to switch to the cheapest price plan ever (there's a Vodafone equivalent tarrif for £5.88 per month which you can get on Orange, or the Virgin one with NO LINE RENTAL for a one-off £20), let your contract run out and get yourself a fresh contract/handset from somebody else right this afternoon.

To answer the question at the top of this thread, "what can we do?"-- play their game and win! All you need is endurance.

[Guest Pulse]

If you're not happy with the handset, give it back and get another one-- simple as that.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I'm sorry, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen on here! They wont just change it because you dont like it. Otherwise I'd have a different phone in my hand right now. No doubt.

Anyway, cant be bothered with a long post, but in reply to Jay's last post.. He might have thought that the so-called 'update' would fix the problems with the handset. Ever think of that?

I'll comment more later when I am at home.

[Guest DancingMatt]

With Orange you get 28 days from *the start of your contract*. So yeah, I returned 3 phones each within a week of having them, and the CS (who miscounted and thought I was over 28 days into the contract when I wasn't) told me that I could only have a reconditioned handset, because I was past the 28 day period. Doesn't matter that the phone I had, had only been with me for a few days to try out - it's from the start of the contract.

And it's crap.

Jay247, take into account that like all mobile operators Orange also offer crap upgrades to us personal users. You have to go through the threats to leave in order to get a deal that they would easily offer new customers. However we get there, once I choose to sign a contract with them for a mobile I don't give a s*** how cheap they make it or what they give me, I want a phone I can call someone on and does what it is advertised to do. They haven't done me any favours by keeping me on Orange, just give me the product I bought.

Am I going to play more games and waste my time to get out of a contract because I want a better deal elsewhere - maybe.

Am I going to play more games and waste my time to get out of a contract because they've ripped me off and can't sell me a fully working phone but think it's acceptable to give me a reconditioned one - why the hell should I?

[Guest Bonzo]

I'm sorry to say I wasn't going to really get involved with this as I feel it detracts a little, (not by much tho :)) from the original thread...

But I do have to say that I am struck by certain comments that do seem extremely blasé!! That's not to say that I don't understand why but...

I mean there are those people that seem to be having exraordinary problems with the update but as a whole few people are not saying that it doesn't address the problems it was meant to... it's just that it seems to have created other issues that were previously not present or the extreme nature of the 'fix' has created another different set of issues!!! But as for....

If you're not happy with the handset, give it back and get another one-- simple as that

Like many others here I feel this is both a LOT narrow sighted and a little condescending!!! and as for...

My SPV E200 was given to me by Orange for free because my contract was up, and for a free handset it's a great gadget! Nice "new toy" for the next few months until the next "new toy" comes out

Well now it's not hard to be see why it's so easy to be blasé when the handset is seen as nothing more than a toy... but that's really beside the point as I'm sure if it were the case for most people that we were getting free handsets we too would see it as a novelty...

But let me say it's not a 'Life & Death' issue for myself although I agree some people do seem to see it that way... it is for me a convenience... it's easier for me to carry a single pocket sized unit to keep in contact with both my workplace and clients than to have a phone AND laptop or PDA as I need to carry only limited data etc.

Now let me pose U a question... as a business customer I take it your business relies, (as most do to a degree), on computers... so when U say...

I'm sure all the issues that have been brought up in this and other forums WILL be addressed-- but probably not by another ROM upgrade. They'll be part of the "E300" or a forthcoming 3G version thereof.

Would U as a businessman be happy if each time an OS update for say windows was released, (for arguments sake lets say it were every 6 months not every month as with Windows security patches), it was done so ONLY as part of a revised OS which meant purchasing a new licence for each and every PC within your company? That is akin to how I see your comment above!

Finally to answer your second reply in this topic I really don't want to use the whole reply as a quote so let's just use that given below...

To answer the question at the top of this thread, "what can we do?"-- play their game and win! All you need is endurance.

It merely leads to one final question... lets say your workforce is all equipped with SPV E200 handsets... and U are not personally happy with it or your workforce cannot function adequately with them... would U then be happy to go down the route of the 28 day exchange that U detail? And would U do this and be able to remain calm? Or would U, (as I have seen from personal experience with business customers that I know personally), begin to make it plain that you would rather cancel your whole business plan, return the handsets and move to a different operator most strenuously until U got the satisfaction that U felt U deserved???

Yes I agree wholeheartedly that it CAN be an endurance game but when that endurance game continues without any reasonable attempt at explanation or assistance to the level U personally feel is deserved it becomes VERY frustrating VERY quickly... Thus U must remember that yes as a business customer U are probably not subject to the games that personal users have to endure with CS but this IS in part due to the fact that U have the weight of the greater financial investment U make...

But for the personal user CS is the first and normally the only point of contact... therefore it is, (wrong as it may be), those people who bear the brunt of this anger and frustration... however forums such as this where everyone can express their frustration and opinions I believe helps to temper this frustration...