What can we do? That's the question!

[Guest Rusty]

I am already on my fourth phone, the last 2 times was for a sticking keyboard problem, so i could theoretically claim that the keyboard is fubar again and ask for an equivalent replacement. The only trouble being what are they going to offer me?????? i very much doubt that they'll want to provide me with a P900 which seems to be the only phone to match all the features of the E200, even then you'd be stuck with a max of 128mb memory card which sux :)

[Guest Bonzo]

Yep this is currently the problem... I'm sure U are right in that they wouldn't be prepared to offer a P900 but strictly speaking it's not even an equivalent anyway... like U said there is the max 128Mb difference not to mention the the different OS!!!

Rock and a hard place... there currently is no equivalent in the Orange range as the E200 is the only device running WM2003!!!

[Guest Rusty]

My point is just that, there is no direct equivalent, yet the replacements that they offer you fall well short of the capabilities of the E200......the P900 imo is the only thing that comes close.

From reading other threads it would seem that O offer you one of three phones as an E200 replacement -

1) Nokia 7250i - need i say anything? :)

2) Nokia 6600 - Sounds pretty good, but apparently shocking synch capabilities and only mono sound.

3) Treo 600 - Again sounds impressive, not too up on it's abilities but it's lacking one major thing for me - bluetooth.

So although 2 out of the 3 above come close to providing all that the E200 gives, only the P900 gives you the lot - yet they don't want to part with them. Catch22 :lol:

[Guest drblow]

:)

This thread seems to have taken a downward turn I see!! :lol:

I think everybody else has done a remarkeably good & eloquent job of saying everything needed to refute jay247's remarks!! All I can say is I wish I had the means to manufacture some really crappy phones & get some customers just like jay247 ...

It's not meant to be perfect, it's not meant to last a lifetime. I'm sure all the issues that have been brought up in this and other forums WILL be addressed-- but probably not by another ROM upgrade.

Brilliant!! :wink: I can just picture it now ...

customer - "here, this phones rubbish & it don't work proper"

phone seller - "it's not meant to be perfect, and it's not meant to last a lifetime"

customer - "oh right, thats fine then. Any chance these problems will be fixed?"

phone seller - "probably not by another ROM upgrade"

customer - "oh right. Thats great, thank you very much for your quality service. Please take some more of my money every month ..."

:lol:

[Guest RussellH]

Two quick comments: Firstly, respect to Dr Blow. Despite all the doom and gloom about the SPV E200, a post from Dr Blow usually brings a smile! Secondly, I'm gonna put a spanner in the works here. I know nothing about symbian products, but have to ask. Despite the fact that I love the potential that the Microsoft based smartphones have, my experience with the E200 has not been good. Prior to the switch, I'd always previously owned N**kia phone, and never had a fault of any kind on any of them. Admittedly, the E200 does miles more stuff, but these threads suggest to me there are lots of dissatisfied customers. It also appears that which ever handset you get, there are major issues. One of my colleagues has ditched Orange and gone to Vodaphone with a Symbian based Motorola A835 phone. He's delighted with it, says it has far more software available for it, and is glad he changed. I know Symbian's a bit of a swearword here, but I value your opinions. Could they be getting it right when Mirosoft aren't?

[Guest Simon Desser]

Could they be getting it right when Mirosoft aren't?

YES :roll: :)

[Guest RussellH]

Just phoned Orange again, but this time called 150 and went through to a handset representative in Newcastle. He was very helpful and knowledgeable. I explained that their upgrade department didn't appear to know anything about the handsets, and I needed advice as I didn't know what to upgrade to. I explained how I had returned an SPV E200 because half the features don't work properly, and that the updated software seems to create more problems than it fixes. He was able to compare the features of the E200 with the other phones. A number of threads here refer to the P900. I asked him if it could do everything the E200 should be able to do, and he answered everything for me satisfactorily. It seems that the P900 could be worth considering (when it's back in stock)! It even has voice activated dialling, which would be a huge bonus for me. The only thing is, it appears to be Symbian. What do you guys reckon? To ensure I don't wander of topic and in answer to the subject question "What can we do? That's the question", could the answer be to jump ship to Symbian, or am I now being really stupid!!! ??? !!!

[Guest drblow]

Two quick comments:  Firstly, respect to Dr Blow.  Despite all the doom and gloom about the SPV E200, a post from Dr Blow usually brings a smile!

:) Thanks for that m8!! I do try!! :wink:

[Guest Jay247]

I'm sorry that I'm fuelling even more anger amongst E200 users, and I'm sorry that my point isn't understood. Let me try again: The question at the top of this thread is simple - What can we do?

Sounds like the classic victim here when so many people say, "boo hoo, poor me, evil evil Orange have tricked me into a contract, forced me into this evil evil handset, and now they treat me like sh!t and there's nothing I can do but whine on a message board". It's an option, but it's certainly not going to solve your telelphony problems.

I was merely showing you ANOTHER option of how to deal with the situation. If you want to get rid of the E200 so badly, then here's a way out. Don't make it into a bigger problem than it is-- I mean it's a bleeping TELEPHONE we're talking about.

And granted, I might be a bit more relaxed about the situation due to the fact that I'm a Nokia 9210i user, and the E200 indeed feels like a "toy" to me. I too was disappointed when I first got it (the E200 I mean, purely for a trip to the US), and I soon realised that this device IS NOT what we would all like it to be: a serious busniess product. Which in turn explains the price for the unit.

So my last two cents on this thread: Take the E200 for what it is (a toy to play with under the Christmas tree, nothing more)-- or leave it and give it back to Orange as described above. Remember, other European operators haven't even released the HTC Voyager, and there's a reason behind that. Now let's all take a moment and remind ourselves of what telephones are meant to do:

Make phone calls. And nothing more than that.

Good night, kids!

[Guest drblow]

Em... just a few relevant points for ya jay247 ...

a) yes, we understand that to you your e200 is just a toy. Yes, you may well be in some kind of financially privileged position where you can afford to simply throw away something that you don't like - but the vast majority of users here are not in that position. We're not saying we were tricked into buying anything, but we ARE tied into 12 month contracts, which not everyone can afford to simply buy out of.

:lol: its NOT 'just a phone' its meant to be a smartphone. It is advertised as having a number of features, which is why it carries a bigger price tag than other models. Let me put it to you this way - you buy a $30.000 BMW, but it only goes as fast as a £500 1982 Metro, and the dealer says to you, 'it's only a car'. Do you understand what I mean? :?

c) You are not actually offering anyone any constructive advice about dealing with these issues. All you have really said is that if we don't like the phone we should give it back and stop crying. As many posts previously have said, we are not all in the position that you seem to be in, where we can afford the financial cost of doing that. And if you had taken any time to familiarise yourself with the history of these issues then yopu surely would see that many people here (myself included) are never off the phone to Orange about these things. I have had 6 replacement e200's from Orange. So your advice is nothing new. And your opinion seems to be quite broadly disregarded by the members of this forum.

It seems that you have just got your first smartphone, in which case I can understand that it is just a toy to you, especially if you have been a nokia user in the recent past. But many of us here have been involved with smartphones since the release of the first SPV nearly 18 months ago. & have seen the platform & community grow & develop, and have sepnt many hours working on and improving smartphones for the benefit of other users. Maybe if you took a little time out to familiarise yourself with the histroy of these things, you may understand better why people are getting so frustrated.

Basically, your posts are coming across as if you are simply trying to further infuriate people. You're 'advice' is nothing new, it has been said & refuted many times before. You certainly don't come across like you're just trying to help, seems as if you are really trying to be patronising, but falling somewhat short of that due to you're lack of knowledge about the subject matter.

Goodnight kids!! :)

[Guest Pulse]

Do I really need to add anything to the doctor's post?

I would like to say one thing though... My E200 is a 'toy' to me aswell to a certain extent. Does that mean I should not be disputing the problems with it? I sure am glad that someone with your.... forum activity has brought a bright side to my day. Can I have some of what you're smoking?

[Guest Pondrew]

Come on motorola - where are you!!??  :twisted:

Didn't you hear? The MPX200 ain't no model of reliability! :twisted:

[Guest Pondrew]

Just come into the thread cold having missed the debate over the last few days.

I have to reiterate along the lines of PhilA that I'm still happy with my E200 despite the locking up. Can't empathise on the call volume/quality issue, it buzzed before, it doesn't now. Don't you remember the LONG thread about the buzzing? Were none of you among those complaining about said buzzing? Because they fixed that.

The volume's too low? Won't it turn up? Did Paul mention something in the update thread about turning your volume up before updating? Maybe thats something to do with it or maybe there's something wrong with your handset.

I feel bad because I've only had the one E200 since November and it's been ok, light buzzing, poor battery life, unreliable mms software. But the update has improved it and nothing has warranted having to claim a replacement at any point. Doesn't seem fair on you all having had to put up with so many dodgy units.

But lets not take it out on forum members. Everyones entitled to their opinion (except msmobiles who just takes it too far :) ) so let Jay have his (admittedly dismissive) opinion.

Peace.

[Guest]

Dear all,

logically viewed and from the point of a general customer one might say "Well, Orange can't sell a phone (E200), which is still in beta and definitely not if they are fully aware of that."

Why ?

Competition in the mobile communications business is extremely tough, almost resembling warfare.

Companies feel compelled to present themselves out on the market in a USP (unique selling position) - which is really hard nowadays - and the so-called "time to market" has become so short that issues like "type approval" or "acceptance testing" has almost become "luxury".

Indeed Orange positioned them last fall as the first operator to launch a nicely looking Smartphone operating on WM 2003. And you all surely remember with which media power they communicated the forthcoming launch already in early October.

All this is of course known to all involved people, but the decision making is done by the (top) management, which has to "feed" investors with brilliantly sounding good news.

Should this then be a plaidoyer in an attempt to excuse Orange ?

NOT AT ALL !

I'm just depicting what reality is.

I am also convinced that Orange's device type approvers are (or were) not very glad about all that and maybe the question the management asked them had not been "Is there a final type approval accoding to the quality standards ?" but rather "Can it be switched on and will work ?" (am a bit exaggerating now).

Maybe even the existence of this forum or similar forums exempted some kind of pressure on them to issue some sort of quick update (remember: something like a firmware update requires resources, cannot be "launched" big in the media and therefore is seen as big effort for little income in a company).

No idea if such updates are programmed by Orange, on of their external IT teams, by HTC on their own or by HTC based on arrangements in the SLA.

Jay surely also is correct when he reports that he was actually able to claim replacement. But note: he is obviously a (valued) business customer or maybe even key account. Such customer segment always and everywhere receive better and preferred treatment, because they generate much more revenues. (Again this is just what is reality, please don't attack me if you disagree.)

Actually we are some sort of beta testers and being a victim myself I am not very amused about all that as well :-(

Anyway Orange has achieved their goal: having been in the media as the first operator, which introduced Smartphones running on WM 2003.

Isn't this the "game" which is played ?

[Guest londonlad]

ask yourselfs this, are you gonna buy the 3g spv when its released :?:

bet your tempted, right? :) but its gonna be the same situation as this, plus at least the orange 2g network is good!

im still tempted :lol: but hopefully i'll be tied in a contract with a motorola :wink:

[Guest cjmillsnun]

Maybe it's just me, but I have had no problems at all since the update (didn't have that many before!) - battery life is great (charged it 14 hours ago, made about 1/2 hours worth of calls and it's still at 75% or so), SMS works fine, GPRS works fine, got used to the ClearType, and I am really happy with both the phone, and Customer Services. I am on a business account, though, with a different CS number, so I don't know if that makes a difference. However, anyone who thinks O's CS is bad should try three's!!

I'm with you on this.

I have had no probs with the update.

Battery life is MUCH better, BT works a bit better, the poor sound quality is soooooo much better, and oranges CS is THE BEST in the business.

I have had experience of all 5 networks, and would only be with O now.

In order of preference of CS

1. Orange GOOD

2. Vodafone AVERAGE

=. T-Mobile

4. O2 POOR

5. 3 ABSOLUTE FECKING $HITE

[Guest drblow]

@ landauf -

I understand what you're saying and I agree with you that your depiction of the situation is REALITY. I also agree that the REALITY may be that Orange have achieved their market objectives by being the first to release smartphones, and their firmware updates aren't big media presentations, so don't come up for the same kind of attention etc - however, the fundamental point for me (as the end user) is that whatever marketing objectives Orange may percieve for smartphones have drastically failed, because their customer perception has plummeted.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions that Orange are suddenly going to have a great change of heart & start making our phones work flawlessly, and in that, their marketing plans have failed. Just look at the amount of posts here related to e200's, that also contain comments about waiting for the new smartphones to be released. It seems that the vast majority of e200 owners are now dying for another smartphone to be released so they can get away from HTC/Orange devices. Now, while business reality may be seen to be at work in their plans, how can any business really continue in a plan which is quite clearly alienating their current customers, to the extent that they are just waiting for an alternative product so they can get away form the company they are currently with??

I think your impression of what the business reality of what Orange is doing is pretty much correct, but it is in no way an 'excuse' for the shockingly poor performance they have shown over SPV's, and it is ultimately a very shortsighted strategy. Users are frustrated and angry, and are already looking for alternatives. New phones will be on the market very soon, and it will be indicative of Orange's utter failure to properly support smartphone, when many users turn their backs on HTC devices in favour of other manufacturers. The current perception of the new moto phones seems to be that they will be superior to HTC in every way - even though no one has even seen one yet!! Now, that to me is not a good marketing policy from Orange. They introduced the SPV 18 months ago, and in that time, the market has become so opposed to their appaling devices, that they are already talking about replacing them with other manufacturers before the other products are even released to the market. As I've said before in this thread, if I worked for motorola, I would take copies of these posts to their marketing dept. It surely would look like a pretty optimistic situation for the launch of their new smartphones. And if Orange suffer a massive shift from HTC devices, then they only have themselves to blame.

All that said - I don't have a problem with Orange as a network, or as far as customer service is concerned. There seems to be a blurring of the argument between the quality of devices, and the customer service aspects. I too feel that OCS are very good, and the network provision is never an issue for me. I will probably buy a moto on the Orange network. But surely someone somehwere in Orange that has read a book about marketing, can identitfy that the HTC device is currently percieved very poorly by the market. It seems to me that Orange are essentially complacent about smartphone coz there is no significant competition. Lets just see how they raect when the new range of phones comes out, with actual alternatives to the e200. I just wonder how many HTC devices will be left in the stockrooms of thousands of Orange shops across the world?? And while many of those alternative devices will be bought on the Orange network, surely they have invested a lot of time & money in the SPV range? Do they really want to just let it disappear once the competition heats up??

[Guest shardy]

I think we have to keep in mind that the new Motos haven't been released yet, and may be dogged by plenty of their own faults when they finally are released. After all, there are plenty of people complaining about faults with the MPX200, and none of us can predict the future! What I'm trying to say is, there are faults with the e200, but we can't claim that the Motos are going to be the saviours of the Smartphones before they even see the light of day. That's the way I see it anyway :)

Sam

[Guest drblow]

I know what you mean m8. Don't get me wrong - I'm not really trying to say that I think the motorola's will be flawless. Like I said above, it's just striking I think that the PERCEPTION of HTC/Orange is SO BAD, that people are talking the moto's up, as if they WILL be the saviours of smartphones, when as you say, there have also been issues with the MPX200.

It does seem however, that there are significantly less complaints about build quality with the moto. Most problems seem to be based around the software, and as we know form SPV/e100, SP2002 was filled with bugs.

[Guest Pondrew]

It does seem however, that there are significantly less complaints about build quality with the moto.  Most problems seem to be based around the software, and as we know form SPV/e100, SP2002 was filled with bugs.

It may just be me but I can't help thinking I'd rather have a slightly buggy phone (software wise) which can be improved by firmware updates then mechanical failures/misdesigns like the sim clips on the MPX200 and button combination problems...

[Guest drblow]

mmm ... I know what you mean. I'd rather live with software bugs & have a phone that is capable of making a phone call, & has a battery that I didn't have to charge twice a day!! :lol:

So, the motorola MPX200 is ALSO a bag of sh**e??? :shock: Forgive my ignorance, I've never even touched one. I'm kind of basing my views on reading posts on this forum, but I have obviously missed quite a few hardware issues with the MPX. I've just seen quite a few comments about the superior buid of the moto, from people who own that & e200!? :shock:

Anyway - I tried to convey in my previous posts that it is really 'PERCEPTION' that I'm talking about. Most of the posts complaining about e200's also contain some kind of reference to waiting for the forthcoming MPX 220/100. Whether the MPX200 does have any serious issues or not, there is still an apparent feeling that the moto's will be superior to HTC phones - and certainly seem to be alot of people eager to get them to replace dodgy Orange e200's!!

Maybe we're all mental!! :)

[Guest Bonzo]

Ahhh but what chance do we now stand??? If we're to believe this article we're gonna be stuffed every which way with Moto outsourcing to HTC too :)

[Guest Pondrew]

Drblow: I've never used the MPX200, don't think I've even handled one so definately not qualified to confirm the faults I've read here on MoDaCo. As far as the number of people trying to get one though, I get the impression that this itself should be seen as sinister. Why HAVE Orange stopped stocking the MPX200? (at least as far as getting replacements if not in the shops themselves).

Bonzo: Don't panic, HTC will apparently not have any input in either the MPX100 nor the MPX. Also we should remember that HTC managed to do a fantastic job in the HTC Himalaya aka XDA2.

[Guest DJHope]

You know that by law (trading standards) if you cannot come to an agreement with Orange regarding the handset you have the right to end your contract?

Dave

[Guest phildrudge]

so is the xda2 made by HTC as well? Hmm interesting, i'm thinking of getting one of those.

To be honest, i'm with whoever it was earlier in the thread and am boycotting orange altogether.

(bible in hand)

[-o< Repeat after me all those who have been treateth like that holy excrement by the evil overseers Orange - - - - - - - I VOW NEVER TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH BETA TESTING A DEVICE FOR A COMPANY WHO IS TOO CHEAP TO GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME THROUGH TESTING [-o<

Ahh thats better...... now who's with me?