Guest bronksy Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 This is NOT a rant about functionality... Is it just me, but PPV and smartphone manufacturers really need to get in some seriously decent industrial designers/ HTC's designs are pretty rubbish, and are just not cool. Their functionality is clearly excellent, but they dont seem to give any thought to the look of the device. That new Excalibur thing is vile, the HerPes is just nothing more than a smaller form of something that has been around for 7/8 years now since Compaq launched the Ipaq. Why can't they come up with something stunning, that has decent build quality and things won't rattle after a week, or the plastic case wont' fall apart etc...They are very unergonomic and pretty ugly. They need to look at Nokia, Sony or even Apple design as what they should be doing. I think HTC devices especially are just not desireable to the wider market. We're a limited audience and we buy for function over form. If they want to hit mass market with these devices. It's not always about cheaper handsets like hte Oxygen, it's about having style, and sexiness. They are kack designs, and they look and feel cheap 3 mins after you unwrap them for the 1st time. Anyone else agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hennapod Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Personally, I'd rather have a phone that does lots of things and is useful rather than one that is "stylish" or "sexy" but isn't so useful (unless you only want to make phone calls) - like, perhaps, the Motorola Razr V3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimbouk Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 I agree that the early SPV's were poorly designed and manufactured, and have heard of casing and keyboard issues with Wizards and Universals, but I find the Prophet to be a very well designed piece of kit. The compromise between overall size (fitting in jeans pocket) and screen size (big enough to view web pages and read emails etc) is just right. The hardware buttons work very well and the weight/feel of the casing is spot on for my use. The only improvement I would make to the Prophet is turning the joypad into a wheel-type control. Whilst I am sure designers could have fun repackaging the devices, the overall look/size etc is governed by usage and component factors. I am waiting on a Hermes - for its functionality - and the only downside to the device is the depth of the casing - as I am used to the Prophets slim casing - but thats the trade off for a full hardware keyboard. IMHO the portrait keyboard devices coming out from motorola, siemens etc are butt ugly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bronksy Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 d. IMHO the portrait keyboard devices coming out from motorola, siemens etc are butt ugly! It's not all about thin... BUT I agree you have to make trade offs...for function over form, but still doesn't mean you can't have a nice design. There's something lacking with the HTC devices.. they just look like they've been knocked out from the production line with little thought to the quality or form of materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ingvarr Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 (edited) I think HTC designs are nice and decent. Never had problems with ergonomics (except with Universal due to its large size). And never had problems with case quality on them, I think its excelent. Edited August 9, 2006 by Ingvarr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bronksy Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Really? I'm sure you're blinded my the gadget aspect. What I stand by is that these are not 'desirable' like other handsets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ingvarr Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 I never cared about devices that is not desirable for me. Why do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bronksy Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 It's just some musings... I think they're more concernec with chucking out as many devices as possible and they look a bit rubbish.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ingvarr Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Apparently the fact that some people dont like their design proved to be unessential to overal big success of HTC devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bronksy Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 so they get complacent, and keep making cheap things and we buy them because we want the latest features.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ingvarr Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 (edited) Thats how market works. Successful companies dont work for abstract ideas. They work to make profit. And I wouldnt call device that cost 700 euros "cheap". If you want "pricey", buy Vertu :) Edited August 9, 2006 by Ingvarr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimbouk Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 I for one prefer the functionality. If Nokia etc made smart devices (and used a better OS) that offered similar functionality to WM devices, then maybe they would find there are only so many ways to package smart devices. For what its worth, I have never been interested in "designer" phones. I think the Pebl's and Razr's are clever marketing gimmicks but thats all they are. This is a smart device forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob.P Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Asia has a history of using already tried and tested designs, it's been like that in the car industry for years. Honda's a good example, they partnered with Rover many years back to help develop the K series engine which gave Rover at the time a mass market model with a fairly bullet proof engine and Honda got out of the deal the chasis design. If you look at European Car shapes you will probably see v.similiar models but with an asia manufacturer stamped on it. It's a case of Europeans for design and Asia for functionality. (By the way I say Asia just to be pc, but most of the time I had Japan in mind) My opinion on the designs, I agree they aren't v.exciting, but on the other hand I think Nokia has had some designs that have been too extreme and in some cases cloud what functionaility is there in the handset. A balancing trick it seems like most things. You say HTC are complacement, I don't think I would use that word, I'd say they are focusing on their core market as they are going through some monumental structure changes and expansion. (P.S. Good choice of topics to debate :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoare Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Surely the point is that at present, people are buying WM devices based on their functionality and specifications rather than their looks. At some point in time, when there is a choice of models with the same functionality/specs then design will start to become more of a factor in people's choice as to which model they go for. At present, for standard mobile phones, for a given set of requirements there are a number of broadly similar phones matching those requirements - so people are starting to go with the phone that "looks best". But the WM market isn't at that stage of maturity yet. And although I agree with many of the previous posters in that I wouldn't select any device on style terms, given the choice between two devices of the same spec, I'd go for the one that looks best (that is, assuming things like robustness are also part of the criteria... wouldn't want a gorgeous looking phone that broke in a day!!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kelv23 Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 My two cents. Mobile phones for tend to be for fashion or one upmanship for most people. Theyre low maintenance and your average bod can get along with them nice and peacefully. Smartphones tend to be more of a hobby or interest, plenty of fiddling around and seeing what it can do . If they did hit mass appeal with a cool trendy design i.e Nokia sales figures they really need to get it right , a fashionable phone that looks great but when youre average bod gets his hands on it and cant figure out what to do with it results in word of mouth bad advertising "my mates got one of them cool looking phones but its hard to use..." . Sales slide and the companys got a fight on its hands to stay competitive. Were sort of in a prolonged beta testing stage, when they get a user friendly version that can be released into the wild then thats when I think the design will be looked at . Half a bottle of red wine went into this post so I hope I make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bronksy Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Yeah.. all makes sense, all points valid, but from a design point of view, I dont believe a design has to sell thousands to create an impact. Nokia must realise a certain device wont be the most useable, but they create eye-catching designs (wether you like them or not they are eye-catching) and this moves the design onto a new level. The problem here is we're all geeks, and many a time before in my comments it's hard for you folk to see through the slicone. Brunel may have built very sturdy bridges, but perhaps they didn't look the best. This still means they are damn fine bridges but there could have been some aesthetic changes... Now, why not put a metal/brushed aluminium casing on some phones, some polished steel, little accents of design. Nokia and SE are clever. They release 'special' handsets that no one buys, but they create a buzz, and people want one because they are so unique. They may not be full function bells and whistles, but some people would aspire to have a titanium phone shell etc.. It's all about aspiration. Your phone is a personal item. It's as personal as your favourite coat, or underpants, it's probably with you more than your partner or children so it should be a piece of your lifestyle. I dont think that the smartphone people are selling lifestyle devices. The Oxygen is an attempt to get smartphone to have mass-market appeal.. it won't work. It's not cool enough. It looks like an 'old' phone. not cool. Look beyond our limited techie geekiness and actually see the device hasn't changed much from Pocket PCs since they started out.. Yes there's lots of gadgets crammed into one small unit. Its like a swiss army knife, but it's certainly not sexy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fluffcat1 Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Honda's a good example, they partnered with Rover many years back to help develop the K series engine which gave Rover at the time a mass market model with a fairly bullet proof engine and Honda got out of the deal the chasis design. Good example but the k-series is a horrendous lump of an engine - needs bullets firing into it rather than being bullet proof - head gasket failures at low mileage, overheating, coolant leaks etc etc. It was an improvement over the then Rover technology but hinders many a Freelander and Lotus to this day.... I'll shut up now. I got rid of my Elise ages ago... Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bronksy Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 So is that agreeing with me :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thetechnogeek Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 So is that agreeing with me :) You should take a look at the new HTC Mteor- aluminium/metal (not sure it's all ali) body, quite thin, and AKU2.3 WM5 functionality. I think HTC have finally got the design right (like a joystick that's very solid, no squeaks from the case, looks gorgeous). Now all they need to do is fix the bugs m*crosoft introduced in AKU2.3. I think they're making progress on form *and* functionality ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob.P Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Now, why not put a metal/brushed aluminium casing on some phones, some polished steel, little accents of design. Probably best you leave designing to us designers ;) Richard - Yup it was head gasket for me, but that was after a number of years of ragging it to f*** :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mandt Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 I have to say I agree with you in part, the battery cover on the vario is certainly a poor design, and the stylus problems have been well documented. and I can see what you're saying about the phones not looking cool, my Vario's been referred to as a brick more than once. :) However with regards to desirability, as soon as I flip out the keyboard for a bit of landscape web browsing, show someone the latest 'Lost' episode, fire up the sat-nav or write a text message with the transcriber, and it's the coolest phone in the world! I'll never go back to a 'normal' phone and I love the whole experience of owning a windows mobile device. I have converted a number of my friends to Smartohones/PPCs and I'm sure I'll convert more, I think people do want Smartphones, they just don't know it yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bronksy Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Absolutely. There is a want.. (until Apple bring out their smartphone) and people would be amazed at what they do.. but we're an elite bunch who know how to get episodes of 'Lost' on our phones. .however, this was never my point, the 1st step to desireablility is creating a need, a lust. Techies may lust after the phone.. but trendies wont! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimbouk Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Techies may lust after the phone.. but trendies wont! Spot on! I was in an orange shop the other day admiring the looks of the Chocolate and the Samsung D900 - beautiful pieces of kit. Within a year or so, you will be able to cram everything we currently have on PDA phones into that form factor and a proportion of "trendies" will love having instant messaging etc on their phones - but no-one has come close to finding a way to way a small, cool device with a big enough screen and a reliable data input method. With exotic alloys and NASA type engineering skills, they could make a reliable slide out keyboard to fit the size of the small cool phones - but the keys would still be too small - and who wants to carry an infra-red keyboard with them when the whole point of the cool small phone means that you can fit it in your jeans pocket or pop it in a small cluth bag? Mind you - have you noticed how many "trendies" go for the small phone and then carry it in their hand (instead of putting it in their pocket)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimbouk Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Just got my 3100 - and having never seen one "in the flesh" before, I think it is a really well designed piece of kit. The Orange customisation of the casing is very smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danwatson1974 Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I had to use a Samsung E900 for a whole day this week ........ Great looking 'phone, lots of touch sensitive goodness and a great build quality but my god, what a terrible thing to have to actually use - small, fiddly and annoying :) There comes a point where I will take function over form ..... although I think that the balance has been struck about right with the M500 / M600 / M3100 / StrTrk Size does matter .... but sometimes, with 'phones and some other things in life, bigger can be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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