Recommendations for decent (i.e. cheap) non-PC VoIP service

[Guest Dark Horse]

I'm looking for a good VoIP service, the type that just requires you to plug a box into a broadband connection and then connect a normal, conventional telephone handset to said box to make free calls to other users anywhere in the world that have the same box. Not really bothered how much UK, mobile or other chargeable calls are as virtually all my calls are abroad to a handful of numbers, all of which will also have the same box. The aim is to do away with the current fixed line that the pirates at Virgin Media (ahoy there!) provide and replace it with a pure VoIP solution with boxes for everyone so we can chat for free with no line rental.

Additionally, as I travel frequently, the box needs to work with any broadband connection, whether it's ADSL or fibre optic, I'm pretty sure this doesn't matter but I have seen adaptors for sale that only work with one or the other. Can anyone advise?

Skype, Tesco and the like which need a moby or PC are not required, going down this route means we might as well just use MSN and besides, it's nice to be able to make and receive calls on a whim without having to switch on a PC.

After snooping around various offerings both here and abroad, I just wanted to know if anyone had any good recommendations. One of the better deals I've found so far is from a company in the Middle East that charges a one-off fee of £140 for the box that allows you to make unlimited calls to anyone in the world with the same box. Might sound pricey but we're willing to take the hit up front with no further costs rather than an ongoing subscription service.

Over here in Blighty, Vonage charges £5.99 per month but has a number of ridiculous add-on charges (£9 line activation, £9 delivery, £24 disconnection, WTF :D) that makes it cheaper over a 2 year period only providing you don't disconnect the phone. Was tempted by this too, after all, who knows where we'll be in 2 years time!

Sipgate appears to offer the best of both worlds with an uber cheap subscription-free service but I can't find any info on how much the box costs and their equipment page here lists all manner of flannel that has integrated this and dual port that when all we're after is a no frills box to stick into our own wifi broadband router.

Does anyone else have any other recommendation? Anything else we should be aware of?

Regards and thanks in advance for any replies,

DH

[Guest Paul (MVP)]

I have a SIPgate account, that and any SIP compatible hardware should do the trick?

P

[Guest Dark Horse]

I have a SIPgate account, that and any SIP compatible hardware should do the trick?

P

Cheers for the reply, are there any additional setup costs, minimum term contracts or disconnection fees? What SIP hardware do you have as everything on their website appears to be a combination router with adaptor thing?

Also, how have you found the service overall in terms of quality for long distance calls? Any comparisons with similar services?

Regards,

DH

[Guest Paul (MVP)]

No costs like that at all.

I use my PC, would a WiFi SIP handset serve your purpose?

P

[Guest Dark Horse]

No costs like that at all.

I use my PC, would a WiFi SIP handset serve your purpose?

P

Ah ok, I think our trades do not match :D

I'm looking for a non-PC solution, one of those VoIP adaptor things you buy to plug into a router (or directly to the cable/ADSL broadband modem) with a normal RJ45. You then connect a normal telephone to the adaptor and it works just like a conventional BT (or other telco) line that rings when someone calls you.

Regards,

DH

[Guest Confucious]

Don't know if this is the sort of thing you are looking for?

http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/Searc...Phone%20Adapter

[Guest Mark]

Why would you need to plug it in?

If its a router you want to plug it into then most offer wifi? I have a really cheap Pirelli i-max phone that used voip via wifi. I use this with sipgate for incoming and outgoing calls.... It also take a sim card so if you wanted you can use it on mobile networks at the same time.

[Guest Dark Horse]

Don't know if this is the sort of thing you are looking for?

http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/Searc...Phone%20Adapter

Confucious, you utter genius, that's *exactly* what I'm looking for :D

I had no idea that you could just buy one of these adaptors though and stick it in an existing broadband connection for free calls to anywhere in the world unless the recipient has the same box? My understanding is that the box is programmed by the provider with your VoIP telephone number which is why you can't buy off-the-shelf to use immediately since different providers operate different networks and have their own numbers allocated.

Also, it says that analogue phones must be connected to the adaptor (sipgate also says this), I wonder if there's any provision for connecting a digital handset?

Cheers anyway though, that site is enormously useful, gives me a good idea on what to search for too :D

Regards,

DH

[Guest Confucious]

As per usual I have no idea what I'm talking about but occasionaly stumble over something useful. I've never used VOIP!

Good luck.

[Guest Dark Horse]

Just a quick update on this for the two of you who might be interested :D

I signed up with DrayTEL and bought the Linksys PAP2T box as found by Confucious (thanks again). Got the thing, plugged it into my router, configured the box that took all of 5 mins and am now up and running with VoIP. No need for Virgin Media's extortinate charges and price mood swings so the conventional landline has been ditched.

A quick word about DrayTEL, (see http://www.draytel.org, they offer a no frills service with no line rental, uber cheap calls, credit that doesn't expire, excellent reliability and loads of extras for free such as a geographical number, free calls to other SIP users, voicemail and call diverting. Highly recommended to anyone who wishes to dabble in VoIP without the overhead of a contract or line rental!

Do feel free to post any questions if you'd like any further info or need help setting up, the Linksys instructions are pretty dire and despite DrayTel having excellent tech support and a good online user guide, it's very much a hands-on type of service for users who don't mind messing around with their kit.

Regards,

Dark Horse

Edited August 29, 2008 by Dark Horse

[Guest awarner (MVP)]

I use the Tesco phone, not bad but sometimes questionable call quality.

It could be down to the handset and where the base is located and the bandwidth restricting Virgin media connection.

When it works it works fine, when it plays up then you want to throw it in the bin.

[Guest kbrent]

Dark Horse, could you help me with the settings on the PAP2T on Draytel - I cant get it to work...

[Guest Dark Horse]

Dark Horse, could you help me with the settings on the PAP2T on Draytel - I cant get it to work...

Sure, here's what you need to do:

1. Connect the Linksys PAP2T telephone adaptor to a spare port on the router, connect the analogue phone to line 1 on the PAP2T (using the adaptor if required) and power up.
   
   
   
2. Pick up the phone and dial **** (4 times).
   
   
   
3. Dial 110# to get the IP number of the PAP2T.
   
   
   
4. Enter http:///admin/advanced into your Web browser to show the Linksys PAP2T configuration screen.
   
   
   
5. Click on "Line 1".
   
   
   
6. Enter the following in the Proxy and Registration section:
   
   Proxy: draytel.org
   Outbound Proxy: nat.draytel.org:5065
   Use Outbound Proxy: Yes
   
   
   
7. Enter the following in the Subscriber Information section:
   
   User ID: Your DrayTel username/account number
   Password: Your DrayTel password
   Auth ID: Your DrayTel username/account number
   
   
   
8. Enter the following in the Audio Configuration section:
   
   DTMF Tx Method: INFO
   
   
   
9. Click the Save Settings button to reboot the PAP2T.
   
   
   
10. Click on "Regional" and enter the following in the Distinctive Ring Patterns section:
    
    Ring1 Cadence: 60(.4/.2,.4/2)
    
    
    
11. Enter the following in the Ring and Call Waiting Tone Spec section:
    
    Ring Waveform: Sinusoid
    
    
    
12. Enter the following in the Miscellaneous section:
    
    Set Local Date (mm/dd): Set Local Time (HH/mm): Time Zone:
    
    
    
13. Click the Save Settings button to reboot the PAP2T once more. You should now hear a dial tone and be able to make and receive calls.
    

Steps 10 and 11 are not required but give a nice UK ring if applied, the default Linksys one is a bizarre affair that sounds like a bad cough :D

Regards,

Dark Horse

Edit: Added steps to change date, time and time zone

Edited September 24, 2008 by Dark Horse

[Guest Dark Horse]

I use the Tesco phone, not bad but sometimes questionable call quality.

It could be down to the handset and where the base is located and the bandwidth restricting Virgin media connection.

When it works it works fine, when it plays up then you want to throw it in the bin.

What Virgin Media broadband connection do you have? I didn't realise they throttle bandwidth but an absolute minimum of 64k upstream should be sufficient for ok call quality.

[Guest idcolvin]

Just a quick update on this for the two of you who might be interested ;)

I signed up with DrayTEL and bought the Linksys PAP2T box as found by Confucious (thanks again). Got the thing, plugged it into my router, configured the box that took all of 5 mins and am now up and running with VoIP. No need for Virgin Media's extortinate charges and price mood swings so the conventional landline has been ditched.

A quick word about DrayTEL, (see http://www.draytel.org, they offer a no frills service with no line rental, uber cheap calls, credit that doesn't expire, excellent reliability and loads of extras for free such as a geographical number, free calls to other SIP users, voicemail and call diverting. Highly recommended to anyone who wishes to dabble in VoIP without the overhead of a contract or line rental!

Do feel free to post any questions if you'd like any further info or need help setting up, the Linksys instructions are pretty dire and despite DrayTel having excellent tech support and a good online user guide, it's very much a hands-on type of service for users who don't mind messing around with their kit.

Regards,

Dark Horse

Hello Dark Horse,

I was just wondering how you are getting along with this service a month in. Has it been all you expected of it? Are there any annoying niggles or problems you've had to work out? Or can you heartily recommend ditching the landline and buying one of these boxes to use over the broadband cable link?

I'm heartily sick of the amounts I'm asked to pay for comms (broadband, mobile, landline rental + extortionate charges) so am very interested in means to cut down my monthly outgoings.

Regards,

Ian

[Guest Dark Horse]

Hello Dark Horse,

I was just wondering how you are getting along with this service a month in. Has it been all you expected of it? Are there any annoying niggles or problems you've had to work out? Or can you heartily recommend ditching the landline and buying one of these boxes to use over the broadband cable link?

I'm heartily sick of the amounts I'm asked to pay for comms (broadband, mobile, landline rental + extortionate charges) so am very interested in means to cut down my monthly outgoings.

Regards,

Ian

Hi Ian,

I'm very pleased with the service and have been using it heavily, both nationally and abroad. It's everything I expected it to be, especially the call quality that is second to none. For any UK calls (point-to-point or PSTN), you won't notice the difference at all from a conventional PSTN line and neither with your caller. For calling abroad however, whilst point-to-point is crystal clear, PSTN to VoIP depends on the latency of the overseas user's connection to the DrayTEL servers. If it's patchy, the call quality isn't great and you end up mising half a second of conversation every now and then which isn't really a problem (I've had far worse with MSN et al). In this way, it's no different to online gaming where you play against someone abroad, it all depends on their connection to the servers.

Reliability from DrayTEL has been superb. There have been only 2 occasions in the last month when the DrayTEL servers were down and both of those occurred late at night for a few hours only. By next morning, the service was back up and running and DrayTEL had identified that the fault only affected certain users. In any case, as a backup, you always have your moby for emergencies.

DrayTEL email support is quick and very helpful. Rather than fob you off with "have you tried switching it off and on again?", you get a detailed and technical reply from someone knowlegeable which is a real change from the usual Bangalore muppets that Virgin Media employs who would have difficulty understanding how to boil water.

Downsides? Well, it's not really a service for anyone who's a technophobe. There's a degree of getting your hands dirty to configure the box but no more than might be required to configure a Wifi connection or router. Once the box is configured that takes all of 5 minutes, you're up and running but you do need to be comfortable in messing around with IP's and server configurations. Also, email support whilst quick and informative is the only method of getting support. There are no numbers you can dial but having said that, I have always gotten a reply within 24 hours.

The only other thing I would mention is that its worth looking into the whole VoIP thing with other providers too to ensure you get the one that best meets your needs. Like you mentioned, I was fed up of having to pay line rental plus broadband plus call charges and all the extortinate charges that go with it. For me, I wanted a no frills service that is reliable, cheap, doesn't tie me into a contract, gives free VoIP calls to other SIP users worldwide and offers a geographical number for free (very important!) along with easy account management. To this end, DrayTEL was the only choice, especially as I can call abroad for free to other SIP users. Additionally however, DrayTEL's UK call charges are way better than Virgin Media et al and of course, there's no line rental! On top of that, there are lots of extras that you get for free such as group calling, call divert and voicemail (messages can be emailed to you as a WAV file).

Other companies such as Vonage charge you a low line rental with free local calls and subsidised boxes but you are tied into a contract with hefty termination fees. So really, you need to look into what you will be using VoIP for and go with whatever provider will accomodate your requirements. Do you make many UK calls for example? Do you need calls to the US in particular (these are very cheap)? Do you need a geographical number? Do you prefer post or prepay services? (DrayTEL is prepay)

The great thing about having a geographical number is that it follows you around the world. I travel abroad often and just take the box with me to plug into a broadband router wherever I am staying. Whoeever then needs to call me from the UK just pays for a normal UK call to my geographical number regardless of whether I'm in Denver or Dubai.

The other thing is that if you are a heavy torrent user (I'm not), quality will not be great on a 2MB connection unless you close/pause your torrent client during a call. The reason for this is because the 192KB upstream limit on a 2MB Virgin Media connection will be shared equally between your torrents and VoIP call. Upstream speeds are more important than downstream speeds for VoIP so whilst you can get away with downloading a file during a call, anything being uploaded will impact the quality. If you already have broadband and are thinking of getting VoIP as an addition to your existing broadband service, check your upstream rates first!

There is another alternative to VoIP too though and that's to just go with someone like Tiscali or PlusNet who offer a phone line with broadband with no line rental. I didn't go down this route however because some of them have usage allowance or require a 12 month contract whilst others are not competitive enough. No point shelling out £20 per month for broadband with a free phone line when a Virgin line can be had for as little as £10 per month (for the first year, £17 thereafter) with which you can get VoIP. More importantly, none of them are able to offer free worldwide calls!

Hope this helps, feel free to ask anything else ;)

Regards,

Dark Horse

[Guest Confucious]

Dark Horse - nice to see your happy with it and good reply - I've learned a lot about VOIP!

I'll stick with VM though - their CS my be 'interesting' but I'm happy with my 20Mb broadband (wlthough speedtest.net was reprtong only 19.5Mb yesterday...)

[Guest idcolvin]

Hi again, Dark Horse.

Thank you for a really informative reply! I think I shall go down this route. Guess I'll just have to find a few minutes in the day somewhere to track down the relevant equipment and sign up to Draytel.

From the sounds of things the Linksys PAP2T is as good a choice as any, by way of equipment -- better in fact, in that I know it worked for you.

Many thanks, again.

All the best,

Ian

[Guest Dark Horse]

Dark Horse - nice to see your happy with it and good reply - I've learned a lot about VOIP!

I'll stick with VM though - their CS my be 'interesting' but I'm happy with my 20Mb broadband (wlthough speedtest.net was reprtong only 19.5Mb yesterday...)

Agreed, the service itself is fine, I rarely have probs with their broadband and this is back from the days when it used to be TeleWest but their charges for both broadband and phone have been steadily creeping up and are no longer competitive.

Support-wise, Virgin Media are kinda OK as long as you call them during business hours. Get through to their UK call centre during the day and they can sort you out most of the time but the out-of-hours offshore call centre is useless.

[Guest Dark Horse]

Hi again, Dark Horse.

Thank you for a really informative reply! I think I shall go down this route. Guess I'll just have to find a few minutes in the day somewhere to track down the relevant equipment and sign up to Draytel.

From the sounds of things the Linksys PAP2T is as good a choice as any, by way of equipment -- better in fact, in that I know it worked for you.

Many thanks, again.

All the best,

Ian

Hi Ian,

No probs, there are a number of boxes you can buy, including all-in-one routers with VoIP and wifi. I think it's worth sticking with separates though, just like you would for good audio and hifi kit ;)

If you do get a PAP2T, make sure it's a fully unlocked model (most are) as you'll be able to use it with any VoIP provider then. There are instructions floating around on the Web to unlock the boxes yourself but it relies on a particular firmware as LinkSys have been clamping down on this.

You can get the PAP2T from a number of online retailers, try broadbandbuyer.co.uk or broadbandstuff.co.uk. Make sure you get the telephone adaptor with it though, this converts an ordinary UK plug into the smaller US plug that the LinkSys has. Both of the retailers above sell it for a few quid with the box but it costs a lot more on the high street.

One last thing, the PAP2T has sockets for 2 phone lines so if required, you can connect 2 separate telephones with different numbers or 1 telephone and a fax machine :wacko:

Regards,

Dark Horse

Edited September 24, 2008 by Dark Horse

[Guest Networkguy]

Also, it says that analogue phones must be connected to the adaptor (sipgate also says this), I wonder if there's any provision for connecting a digital handset?

Because what you think of as a digital handset (such as a DECT phone) is still officially an analogue phone. A digital handset is of the type you get on corporate exchange systems in offices and hotels etc.

[Guest Dark Horse]

Because what you think of as a digital handset (such as a DECT phone) is still officially an analogue phone. A digital handset is of the type you get on corporate exchange systems in offices and hotels etc.

Yep, many thanks for clarifying ;)

[Guest Dark Horse]

For calling abroad however, whilst point-to-point is crystal clear, PSTN to VoIP depends on the latency of the overseas user's connection to the DrayTEL servers. If it's patchy, the call quality isn't great and you end up mising half a second of conversation every now and then which isn't really a problem (I've had far worse with MSN et al). In this way, it's no different to online gaming where you play against someone abroad, it all depends on their connection to the servers.

Just a quick update on this, after speaking with DrayTEL tech support, I changed the codec on all the PAP2T's from the default G711 codec that provides the best quality to the G729 codec which is more efficient at bandwidth utilisation. This has solved the issue of intermittant conversation between global VOIP users with virtually zero impact on call quality :lol:

[Guest frottage]

have a look at www.voipcheap.com

www.voipfone.co.uk

and also telappliant

[Guest The distant one]

Hi Ian,

No probs, there are a number of boxes you can buy, including all-in-one routers with VoIP and wifi. I think it's worth sticking with separates though, just like you would for good audio and hifi kit :rolleyes:

If you do get a PAP2T, make sure it's a fully unlocked model (most are) as you'll be able to use it with any VoIP provider then. There are instructions floating around on the Web to unlock the boxes yourself but it relies on a particular firmware as LinkSys have been clamping down on this.

You can get the PAP2T from a number of online retailers, try broadbandbuyer.co.uk or broadbandstuff.co.uk. Make sure you get the telephone adaptor with it though, this converts an ordinary UK plug into the smaller US plug that the LinkSys has. Both of the retailers above sell it for a few quid with the box but it costs a lot more on the high street.

One last thing, the PAP2T has sockets for 2 phone lines so if required, you can connect 2 separate telephones with different numbers or 1 telephone and a fax machine :)

Regards,

Dark Horse