19 replies to this topic

[Damiantmc]

As the title suggests I've just found out 3 are changing there terms and conditions and now stating that a minimum call charge of 1 Min for every call including voicemail will be effective from September 23rd. I received a letter stating the change this morning but no option to dispute the change. I'm on a £15 a month deal with them and the vast majority of my calls are 10-40 seconds long, I mostly come closer to using all my minutes with them being charged in second intervals that they are now, so with the 1 Min minimum change I can see me easily running over my phone bills and this costing me money!

Now I don't know what you guys think but I think this stinks! I signed up to the contract because it fitted perfect for my useage at the price. This to me is a major change which is going to mean that my service is going to cost more or be reduced from the original contract which I personally feel is a breach of terms!

So really I just wanted to know what you guys think about this and where I stand with this matter as my contracts not up till next March and I'm just not happy with the way i'm being treated by 3 as a customer.

Thanks

Damian

[PaulOBrien]

I think you likely have grounds for early termination?

P

[Mark]

Yeah, this is a major change as since mobile networks have been digital it has always been a "Per Second" billing charge with no minimum call charge.

Charging for a whole minute is like going back to the old "Analogue" days.

I would suggest contacting them, by phone and email asking to be released from your contract.

[Confucious]

Isn't that a bit of a cop out? They can change the terms of a contract and your only recourse is termination?

Surely they have an obligation to honour the contract or compensate accordingly....

[shadamehr]

Confucious, on Aug 18 2008, 12:54, said:

Isn't that a bit of a cop out? They can change the terms of a contract and your only recourse is termination?

Surely they have an obligation to honour the contract or compensate accordingly....

Let us know how you get on, as our lass has a 3 Contract account she doesn't really need any more, so would be keen to hear.

I'd look into it myself, but this one of my many contracts is actually thanks to my BROTHER, as it was a spare contract he had that he didn't need, that was useful for us at the time.

So I can't ring up myself unless I pretend to be him, which I couldn't condone.

So if you take this further mate, please report back how you come on, or what they say...

[hockeyump]

Take a look at the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCR) at http://www.opsi.gov....99/19992083.htm

Important to note that this is a non negotiated contract so the terms of the UTCCR should apply.

Note examples of unfair terms in Schedule 2

(j) enabling the seller or supplier to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract;

(k) enabling the seller or supplier to alter unilaterally without a valid reason any characteristics of the product or service to be provided;

(l) providing for the price of goods to be determined at the time of delivery or allowing a seller of goods or supplier of services to increase their price without in both cases giving the consumer the corresponding right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded;

2. Scope of paragraphs 1(g), (j) and (l)

Paragraph 1(j) is also without hindrance to terms under which a seller or supplier reserves the right to alter unilaterally the conditions of a contract of indeterminate duration, provided that he is required to inform the consumer with reasonable notice and that the consumer is free to dissolve the contract.

(d) Paragraph 1(l) is without hindrance to price indexation clauses, where lawful, provided that the method by which prices vary is explicitly described.


Firstly my experience of large British corporations is that they have no regard for the UTCCR (the banks even tried to argue in Court that these Laws of the country didn't apply to them - bizarre) so you will probably end up having to go to OFCOM to get a ruling. Secondly you are going to get mighty frustrated in the process.

Write to 3 saying that UTCCR suggests that in terms of Schedule 2 (j) and (l) and the scope of those paragraphs this change in the contract significantly alters the contract to your detriment and that the same legislation suggests that you must be allowed to be free to dissolve the contract which you want to do. Ask them to please reply in writing so that their reply can be included in your complaint to OFCOM if they disagree with your assessment. Do not take any calls from them on the matter unless you are able to record that call.

Hope this helps you and everyone else.

[Br1an_g]

but all networks do this dont they?

its only the first minute thats getting rounded up.

[Confucious]

I've never hear of UTCCR before - good find!

I do find it rather strange that one party to a contract can change the terms and your only recourse is to cancel the contract but the other party has no say and can't cancel the contract under normal circumstances - hardly 'fair' is it?

Luckily it doesn't affect me as my only contract with Three is data only.

[hockeyump]

Confucious, on Aug 19 2008, 09:56, said:

I've never hear of UTCCR before - good find!

Most people haven't and large corporations rely on that fact, which is why they behave as though it doesn't exist. UTCCR and the Sale of Goods Act should be essential reading for all consumers. You will be surprised how much your legal rights get trampled on by UK PLC. When you complain they quickly restore your rights with an apology, but it makes you wonder how often they don't and how much money they make by breaking the law.

For instance all goods you buy must work perfectly for an absolute minimum period of 6 months from the time of purchase. Mobile companies abuse this where there is no coverage in your home or place of work. It is clear the ability to use your phone in those two places is a reasonable expectation and if you can't do so then the phone technically doesn't work. Try canceling the contract and see how often you get told you can't do so.

Whilst the Act specifies a minimum period of 6 months it doesn't mean that that is the expected period for the goods to work. They are subject to work perfectly for a reasonably expected amount of time.

S14(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

Now getting your mobile on contract you are supposed to sign either an 18 or 24 month contract and forms the "relevant circumstances" required by the Act. I would say it is reasonable to expect the phone to work perfectly for the entire duration of that contract. See what happens if your phone breaks down after the first 12 months and you haven't taken out their expensive extended warranty.

[Mark]

I've just had an Email from Virgin Mobile to say that they are introducing a minimum 1 minute call charge as of 13th October, so it isn't just 3 doing it...

[andrewkeith5]

if you actually read through the terms and conditions of your contract, then you should find the following clause:

Quote

Pay Monthly Customers

10.1 You may end this agreement in the following ways:

[....]
d. Within one month of a detrimental variation to your agreement. You can end the agreement within one month of us telling you about a variation to your agreement (which includes your Price Plan) which is likely to be of detriment to you. You must give written notice to 3 Customer Services within that month and your agreement will finish at the end of that month once we receive your notice. (A Cancellation Fee will not be charged.)

As the change they have made to your price plan will be detrimental to you, i.e. that it will result in costing you a coniderable amount more than you currently pay, you have the right to cancel your contract with 3 at no charge, but you MUST make sure that 3 recieve written confirmation of your desire to terminate the contract within 30 days after the date of their letter to you. This basically means phoning customer services and explaining the situation, and as well as doing what they should tell you to do (which will basically be write a letter), also write a letter to whoever the customer services manager is at 3's head office (just address it Director of Customer Relations, it should get through to somebody with power) explaining your situation, why you want to terminate the agreement, and stating clearly the date on which you sent the letter and the date you would like the contract terminated by (30 days after the date of the letter). ALWAYS use recorded post, and make sure that it is tracked, and if you haven't heard confirmation (state the in the letter you would like confirmation they have actioned your request within 14 days), call customer services or head office if necessary and chase it up.

This all must happen within 30 days, however, so if you really do want out, you'd best get on with it...

Any questions do ask...

Andrew

PS. You'll be expected to pay for everything you've used up to the time they cancel your account - its best to just pay that (they should pro-rata it so you only pay for the time you use), otherwise you'll end up in a world of problems you won't want

Edited by andrewkeith5, 25 August 2008 - 04:37 PM.

[Br1an_g]

i would ask the questions before you terminate your contract:

What will you replace this contract with.  and will it work out better for you?

i think its a bit of a knee jerk reaction when if you move to another provider they do exactly the same thing..

[cfmj]

I have a 3 contract for my daughter - she says she can make 6 calls in 60 seconds so this is going make a huge impact to her (my!) bill. I will try and negotiate moving to a better tariff rather than leaving 3 completely because she can't live without free MSN messenger 24 hours/day.....

[andrewkeith5]

JEEZ! 6 calls in 60 seconds? why the naff doesn't she just use text messaging...the point of talking is actually to communicte, not to just say a ten second sentence then hang up...

its a good job she isn't on pay as you go, theres a mandatory 1 minute call charge there

[cfmj]

andrewkeith5, on Aug 29 2008, 08:51, said:

JEEZ! 6 calls in 60 seconds? why the naff doesn't she just use text messaging...the point of talking is actually to communicte, not to just say a ten second sentence then hang up...

its a good job she isn't on pay as you go, theres a mandatory 1 minute call charge there

Teenagers don't understand the art of communication. I have 2 teenage daughters so count myself qualified in the subject. She gets through 100 minutes/month mainly with v short calls "Call me back this is costing me" etc. and uses all her 1000 texts/month. I probably don't use 1000 texts in a whole year! If all her short calls are rounded up to a minute then her minute allowance will be used up very quickly.

[andrewkeith5]

well technically being 18 i am a teenager...but i've never used that much airtime, and i spend an average of 20 minutes on each phone call

i have great difficulty understanding some people

[cfmj]

Well... phoned 3 and got nowhere - I would have to pay large cancellation fee for 10months of contract remaining.

I wrote to their Glasgow address instead and told them I wanted no fee exit and got a call tonight. They told me that when I took the contract out in Dec 07 it stated that first minute billing was going to be introduced at some point. I told the lady that it was poor customer service to change the terms mid way through a contract when people were used to what they were getting.

She offered me a change in plan as a concession so from 1st October my daughter will get 500mins/unlimited text plan for £25/month (changed from 100mins/1000texts £20/month) and this something I wanted months ago when it was first introduced (and my other daughter got - can you imagine the contract envy!) but they would not let me change to.

My plan was to cancel the contract and get a new one on this deal - so I'm happy with the result.

[humph12345]

The likely hood is that all the networks are going to go back to charging for the first minute.

This is in response to recent Regulatory ruling against them.

[Weasley]

cfmj, on Sep 2 2008, 19:41, said:

Well... phoned 3 and got nowhere - I would have to pay large cancellation fee for 10months of contract remaining.

I wrote to their Glasgow address instead and told them I wanted no fee exit and got a call tonight. They told me that when I took the contract out in Dec 07 it stated that first minute billing was going to be introduced at some point. I told the lady that it was poor customer service to change the terms mid way through a contract when people were used to what they were getting.

She offered me a change in plan as a concession so from 1st October my daughter will get 500mins/unlimited text plan for £25/month (changed from 100mins/1000texts £20/month) and this something I wanted months ago when it was first introduced (and my other daughter got - can you imagine the contract envy!) but they would not let me change to.

My plan was to cancel the contract and get a new one on this deal - so I'm happy with the result.

Hello cfmj do you mind post a copy of your cancellation letter and the address for glasgow office. because i on phone with them but those india cs refuse to cancel my contract.

[cfmj]

Weasley, on Sep 9 2008, 11:16, said:

Hello cfmj do you mind post a copy of your cancellation letter and the address for glasgow office. because i on phone with them but those india cs refuse to cancel my contract.

This the letter I used - good luck trying to cancel!





Allan McLuckie
3 Customer Services
PO Box 333
Glasgow
G2 9AG

1st September 2008


Dear Allan,


Re: Account number xxxxxxxxxx, Mobile number: 07xxx xxxxxx


I have received a letter from you dated 15th August 2008 informing me of changes in my billing which I consider to be quite significant. The change means that a quick call of less than a minute will now cost a whole minute of my inclusive time. I consider this to be a considerable change that will substantially increase my monthly bills.

Therefore, I see this change is of detriment to me and I am writing to give you thirty days notice to cancel my contract as set out in my contract in part 10.1(d).

Please can you confirm as soon as possible that the contract will be cancelled and a PAC number issued to allow me to transfer my number. I understand from the contract that no additional charges will be made for cancelling the contract.

Thank you for the service you have provided.

Kind regards,