Bye bye WM

[Guest chucky.egg]

I've been using WM for many years now, and spent about £1000 in the last 12 months on handsets in the search for my "perfect" device. I don't expect to find it really, but something pretty close.

I hated the E200 and M500, liked the Prophet, the Wizard and the C500 (had 2 of each), loved my Blackjack, hated the Vox, really liked the Touch and so-so on the Kaiser. But at the end of the day they all had serious issues for me - generally battery life on the Smartphones and Phone use on the touch-screens.

I was toying with buying a Touch Pro (Diamond + keyboard) but rejected the idea after seeing lots of initial problems with the Diamond, and the thickness of the Pro.

So, today I made the leap and bought a Nokia E71 (your words can not hurt me in my flame-proof suit!)

I'll keep the Touch, so I may be back again before too long - I do get bored easily too! - but for now I must bid you all farewell

[Guest Paul (MVP)]

Sorry to see you go chucky.egg! What you gonna do with your new Compact Framework knowledge now? :D

You do realise you should have bought a Treo Pro tho right, rather than a E71? :D

P

[Guest Confucious]

Farewell Chucky - see you on the Symbian forums - although we'll probably see you back here soon....

[Guest chucky.egg]

I'm sure I'll be back sometime, but I need to give S60 a proper amount of time to get used to it.

[Guest jimbouk]

Good luck being a normal person.

[Guest awarner (MVP)]

Turned to the dark side he has.

[Guest Dark Horse]

Good luck with your E71 and Series 60, just out of interest, did you consider a Blackberry or Sony Ericsson? Any reason why you went for the E71?

[Guest chucky.egg]

But Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future

[Guest chucky.egg]

Good luck with your E71 and Series 60, just out of interest, did you consider a Blackberry or Sony Ericsson? Any reason why you went for the E71?

Yeah, I looked at the Blackberry 83x0. I'm not a fan of them though - the interface looks like something from the 80s.

In terms of battery life and reliability it would have been fine, but I (possibly incorrectly) thought it wouldn't be as expandable in terms of applications.

Not sure which "Sony Ericsson" you mean. I used to have UIQ devices (P800 and P900) and wouldn't want to go back there now. The P1 (I think I've got that right) had poor reviews.

E71 fits my main requirements well - battery life, phone use and quality, Exchange sync, stable, expandable, nice-ish interface, small enough (slightly taller than my Touch) and light enough for suit trouser pockets.

[Guest Dark Horse]

Yeah, I looked at the Blackberry 83x0. I'm not a fan of them though - the interface looks like something from the 80s.

In terms of battery life and reliability it would have been fine, but I (possibly incorrectly) thought it wouldn't be as expandable in terms of applications.

Not sure which "Sony Ericsson" you mean. I used to have UIQ devices (P800 and P900) and wouldn't want to go back there now. The P1 (I think I've got that right) had poor reviews.

E71 fits my main requirements well - battery life, phone use and quality, Exchange sync, stable, expandable, nice-ish interface, small enough (slightly taller than my Touch) and light enough for suit trouser pockets.

Yes, I meant the P1 (or P1i), I wouldn't just go by the reviews though, it was vastly better than the P990 so if you're able to get your hands on one for a few days, it's worth trying. The keypad is a qwerty affair that shares buttons but there is also a touch screen keyboard that works well so it's manageable for email. And like the Blackjack, it also has a jogwheel which is great!

Re: BlackBerry, the OS is locked down quite tightly but there are shed loads of OTA third party apps that you can install. Also, if stability is key, it's rock solid, far more than WM and S60 and BlackBerry battery life is also significantly better.

How do you find the E71 keypad? I hated it as did my other half, we both found it too cramped and spongy which is why she's sticking with her E61 for the time being. Usability of S60 is very good but Nokia Suite is pretty dreadful, makes ActiveSync look like a fleet-footed gazelle :D

Edited September 4, 2008 by Dark Horse

[Guest WearTheFoxHat]

I was considering the E71 too. That and the Blackberry Bold.

I think realistically I'm after the moon on a stick!

Just keen to get something stable and reliable, that has a good camera, proper exchange integration, and a non-sluggish ui.

[Guest chucky.egg]

How do you find the E71 keypad? I hated it

I've sent a dozen or more SMS, emails etc and typed some URLs, and so far have only made 3 typos.

I have quite fat fingers, so I expected to have problems, but in fact I really like it so far.

Nokia Suite is pretty dreadful,

I've heard that said, but I'm not sure I agree

I think it is a bit bloaty, but it gives you the option to sync other (non-default) Outlook Calendars which is something AS has never done.

I don't use PC Suite though - I sync OTA with an Exchange server

Just keen to get something stable and reliable, that has a good camera, proper exchange integration, and a non-sluggish ui.

1. Well, AFAIK, S60 is stable out of the box. I've not installed 3rd party apps yet, but I'm not expecting problems there.

2. Camera is something I never use, it's 3.2mpx but what they look like I don't know

3. "Proper" Exchange integration isn't there out of the box. You can sync Inbox, Calendar, Tasks, Contacts (not Notes AFAICT). Inbox is the only email folder that gets sync'd (not sub-folders). There is an app ("RoadSync"?) which does sub-folders as well, but it's not an issue for me

4. UI is very snappy indeed. Compared to my Blackjack and Touch it is much faster, and it's still noticeably faster than my Kaiser. Just switching it on takes 15s, compared to 60-90s for the Touch. Press a button and it responds virtually instantly.

[Guest chucky.egg]

Hey guys

I thought I'd pop back and give you an update "one week on"

Likes

• Speed. It's just sooo responsive it still amazes me after a week
  
• Built-in Web browser. I don't do that much surfing, but it's quick and easy to use
  
• Size and weight. Taller than a Touch, but thinner. Fits in a suit trouser pocket very nicely
  
• Battery life is stunning. I reckon I could get 3 days out of one charge without any hassle, 5 days if I was careful
  
• Phone quality is great, easy to use and clear as a bell
  
• Short- and Long-press on hardware keys have 2 functions out of the box (I had a Touch, no hardware keys!)
  
• Keyboard is actually very good, despite what some people said it might be like I find it easy
  
  • Built-in calendar has no "Free", "Tentative", "Busy", "Out of Office" status things. Eh? That never seemed advanced to me, but there you go. I've worked around it quite easily, but for some it might be a big issue
    
  • Built-in Exchange support only syncs Inbox. No sent items, no subfolders. You can buy an app that does all that, but I've worked around it quite easily.
    
  • Speakerphone is just too quiet to be of any use whilst in a moving car
    
  • Stupid Nokia charger. What's wrong with miniUSB?
    

  App Issues

  [*]Code Wallet. I've used this for years, and generally liked it a lot. Only one Symbian app (XSafe) has (al)most all the same features, but no PC Companion. I've gone with Handy Safe, which amazingly only lets you have ONE "wallet".

  [*]CoPilot. Doesn't work properly on the E71 (they never said it did). Nokia Maps is kinda poor, Garmin quite ugly, I'm running out of options. Google Maps works great, but it's not the same thing.

  [*]Dope Wars. There's no Dope Wars for Symbian AFAICT! :cry:

  I'm always looking for useful new apps, and my impression now is that there is more for WM than for Symbian. That might be because S60 comes with so much stuff installed straight out of the box. But I also think there's more activity in WM development at the moment.

  All in all I'm still very happy, but I think for some people the odd omissions (like "Free" appts) would be a deal breaker.

[Guest Metoo]

As a long term user of WM, but having an E90 and E51, I share your appreciation of S60. It's a welcome change to have something that just works, without having to download a plethora of 3rd party applications to get it to work the way you want - and certainly NEVER having to go near a registry editor.

The speed of the latest versions is very nice too - without having to have the 600MHz+ powerhog CPUs that WM demands. Which is something that can't be said of the P990/P1i which are sluggish beyond belief (especially for messaging).

The polished steel styling and build quality of the E71 series is wonderful - none of your Taiwanese cheap plastics here. I can't understand what Palm were thinking with the Pro - why have a flagship "professional" device which takes all its design cues from a $99 level "smartphone for kids" Centro?

On the other side of the coin, S60 would never keep perpetual tweakers happy, but WM sometimes is like having too many clothes in your wardrobe, and spending all your time deciding what to wear instead of getting out to join the party.

It is a shame the software catalogue isn't as extensive as WM, (SplashID, for example, is a major version behind, and has only basic import instead of full desktop sync), but that can only get better as device like the E71/E66, and the leisure-orientated N series, gain market share.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Metoo

[Guest chucky.egg]

OK, several months on, how are things with S60 and the E71?

Pretty good.

I find that I use my phone differently now (new job), which must affect it, but I play with it much less than I did with WM devices. I use it for work/personal stuff, play some games, read some RSS and web sites, time the cooking of the chinese-in-a-box-from-the-supermarket (that's quite a common one).

Reliability has been perfect. No faults at all.

Performance is great, still very fast to start, and responsive in every app.

Battery life is incredible - 3 days from a single charge, which is great if I'm away and don't bring a charger.

Build quality is great - several drops and no scratches wobbles or creaks

I've been looking for another device, out of permanent need for a new toy, but so far nothing I've seen comes close.

I think the E71 has spoiled me for "normal" devices.

That said the imate credit-card smartphone does look interesting...

[Guest Confucious]

Have you thought about a - dare I say it - iPhone?

I love mine :(

[Guest Metoo]

Have you thought about a - dare I say it - iPhone?

I love mine :(

The problem with the iPhone is there is so much that it doesn't do - and touch keyboards are a pain to use when on the move.

I can fully agree with the sentiments expressed by Chucky Egg though. When you just want to get things done, instead of playing around and tweaking, the E71 is so much more productive than any WM phone.

After coming from the VGA+ world of WM, only two things let it down in my book - the QVGA screen, and S60's basic PIM and mail client. That's why I took a slightly different direction and went for the Blackberry Bold. Now that IS productive, and the screen is glorious. The biggest WoW after that is the speed - app switching is instantaneous- just like it used to be on my old Palms. And once you get used to the workflow is is that everything is seemless as even 3rd party apps integrate into the context sensitive menus which are always just a single button press away. It even works pretty well as an MP3 and movie player. Of course for the Bold you have to take the extra cost of a BB data plan into account - but fortunately O2 allowed me to do a straight swap from an iPhone account to unlimited BIS with no penalties or contract extension. It's getting increasing 3rd party support too - my mainstay WM apps Pocket Informant and SplashID are both on my Bold. The only thing I miss is a SatNav app that uses maps stored locally on SD instead of having to download them OTA (which means no network coverage = no Nav).

I know that won't suit everybody, and just getting things done is boring for some. But handling calls and info lookups during a busy day, or when trying to send a quick message one handed on-the-go, WM falls down miserably. Trouble is when you really want to do something in a hurry or with a minimum of fuss, is exactly when WM will throw a wobbly and throw in a 10 second spinning wheel while it sorts itself out, or will lock up altogether. Even when it's running, the options you need are usually buried down a 3 deep menu, or under hit-and-miss tiny icons. On the E71 and Bold, you just press a button and don't think about it. Oh, and you can see the display when outdoors, too.

I once read a review (maybe someone will link to it) where the writer hit the nail on the head by saying that all smartphones fell into 3 categories, illustrated by what you would need to do if you were out walking with the phone and needed to send a message, make a call, or lookup some info.

1) those where you have to STOP.

2) those where you have to SLOW DOWN.

3) those where you just KEEP GOING.

WM Pro is pretty much always in category 1. The iPhone and WM Standard sometimes make it into category 2. But the E71 and Blackberry are firmly in category 3. And that's where I need my main phone to be - to assist, not to hinder, getting on with my life.

Mind you, I do admit I have a need for tweaks, so have a Touch HD to play with for that (new ROM to play with every week!) B)

Edited March 7, 2009 by Metoo

[Guest Confucious]

I've never had a problem with the iPhone's keyboard and it does everything I want - apart from SatNav.

Horses for courses - I would hate to carry anything with a dull size keyboard now and, although I thought S60 was OK (I had an E90) I prefer both WinMo and the iPhone.

It does very much depend on how you use your phones and what for though!

Edited March 7, 2009 by Confucious

[Guest Metoo]

I've never had a problem with the iPhone's keyboard and it does everything I want - apart from SatNav.

Horses for courses - I would hate to carry anything with a dull size keyboard now and, although I thought S60 was OK (I had an E90) I prefer both WinMo and the iPhone.

It does very much depend on how you use your phones and what for though!

All very true. My only real problem with the iPhone was that once you've received some information via Email, SMS, Messenger, Browser, RSS or Facebook, what do you do with it? You can't even forward an SMS, let alone copy and paste any content. Whereas on the Bold, no matter by what method the info has got to the phone, I can send it to any other contact by SMS/PIN/Email/MMS or IM directly from the menu, copy & paste it into any other app, put it into my datavault, use it to create an event or task in Pocket Informant, open highlighted URLs in the browser, or add the sender to contacts or lookup on Googlemaps or Nav4All. The OS might look simple and lack eye candy, but it is a real powerhouse underneath, which reassures me I've made the right choice every time it does what I want, instead of the OS getting in the way.

That said, I'd probably still be using the E90 if it weren't for the heft, and the general sluggishness and other shortcomings of the Email client. (E.g. no HTML, which the iPhone takes to the other extreme, with no options to read in plain text - big security issue IMO).

[Guest Confucious]

All, again, true, but copy and paste and forwarding emails (and MMS if that's your bag) are all sorted via Cydia. It's a shame that Apple don't build these in and a real shame that they prohibit the use of the SDK to make real SatNav - it's the only reason ALK haven't released CoPilot yet :(

I don't use my phone for business so am not looking for some of the features you probably require. For me the iPhone is pretty near my perfect device.

I guess if we all wanted the same things there would only be one phone on the market!

[Guest Metoo]

All, again, true, but copy and paste and forwarding emails (and MMS if that's your bag) are all sorted via Cydia. It's a shame that Apple don't build these in and a real shame that they prohibit the use of the SDK to make real SatNav - it's the only reason ALK haven't released CoPilot yet :(

Hmm, even if Apple allowed it, iPhone SatNav wouldn't fully tick the box for me. The last "proposal" I saw from ALK was a product that used server side mapping, just like Telmap & Telenav. That was for the Blackberry, but I would imagine it fits right into Apple's "charge for everything" policy too. They'd much rather do it that way, as it removes scope for piracy, and gives them a nice revenue stream by charging a monthly subscription. Clearly the Palm Pre will be the same, as Palm's marketing is focussing pretty much everything on the "cloud", they have already advertised a tie up with Telemap, and, like the iPhone, there's no external memory expansion available for maps. Same for the Blackberry too - there's a choice of at least 4 turn-by-turn products, and although 2 are free (aMaze and Nav4All), all the maps are held server side and downloaded as you go - even with Garmin.

Now that approach is fine in that it promises you the latest maps and free traffic info etc., but just wait until you're in unknown territory out in the sticks and you can't get a data connection, and there's no way for it to tell you the way home (or it loses it mid-manoeuvre). Been there, done that, and almost thrown it out of the window. So although the basic functionality may there on other OS, if SatNav is one of your must-haves, WM and S60 definitely still have the advantage.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Metoo

[Guest chucky.egg]

I've never had a problem with the iPhone's keyboard

<snip>

I would hate to carry anything with a dull size keyboard

The keyboard's good, but you wouldn't want a DULL one? :(

One thing I've noticed with the E71 is that, even with the sometimes strange word suggestion, I almost never make a typo.

I've also noticed that I send loads more text messages - largely because it's so easy to type on I now type "longhand" (few if any abbreviations) and I often ramble on for more than 160 characters.

The big "loss" of going to S60 for me is the community - I don't come here often any more, and none of the S60 forums have the same community spirit that Modaco has always fostered.

[Guest Metoo]

The big "loss" of going to S60 for me is the community - I don't come here often any more, and none of the S60 forums have the same community spirit that Modaco has always fostered.

There you have a point - it's probably only the goings-on here and over at xda-dev that keep me interested in playing with WM!

[Guest alvin002]

now you're in the right side

[Guest Confucious]

The keyboard's good, but you wouldn't want a DULL one? :(

One thing I've noticed with the E71 is that, even with the sometimes strange word suggestion, I almost never make a typo.

I've also noticed that I send loads more text messages - largely because it's so easy to type on I now type "longhand" (few if any abbreviations) and I often ramble on for more than 160 characters.

The big "loss" of going to S60 for me is the community - I don't come here often any more, and none of the S60 forums have the same community spirit that Modaco has always fostered.

I've only just seen your reply - buy that typo was made on a DULL size keyboard B) Maybe it's because I can't type anyway that I have no problem with the iPhone keyboard.

I agree about the community spirit for WinMo, the iPhone community isn't the same.