Donating so someone can buy a phone....

[Guest scrap2434]

So I see all the frustrations coming out from those who donated (and those who probably didn't actually donate) to developers so that they can buy themselves new phones.

I see everyone venting their frustrations in other topics and whilst I was not going to comment at first, I have since decided I will comment in a new thread just to keep the fighting out of the other topics.

I didn't donate. I admit that quite freely and happily.

I didn't donate because I had no idea to whom I was donating and to what I was donating. A 15 year old kid who claims he will create great things for this phone (who struggled to order it if I remember correctly) and another bloke who I don't know who I think also struggled to order the phone.

In my mind alarm bells were going off whilst reading the threads.

I think that maybe people should be buying their own phones, not relying on the community to purchase them. Once the developer has the phone, then they can take their sweet time in creating whatever it is they are creating, release it and then get donations.

I am happy to donate for a finished and released ROM. I ain't happy handing over my hard earned cash to kids to buy their next new toy and then fail on their promises.

I understand that the Acer might be a different beast compared to other phones, but guess what.... You should have thought of that before taking people's money.

I also understand that the developers are (hopefully) doing the best they can, but if you don't give updates and you don't give hope to those that have already outlaid money to the cause, then you are going to have upset people... People that will think you have conned them out of money all so you can have a new phone.

Now I know that I am relatively new to this site and perhaps this is the way things are done here (buying someone a phone), but for me, it just doesn't make me comfortable, so good luck to the developers, I hope you come through with the goods soon (or at least give updates on the status) and once you have completed your ROMs, then I shall donate and you can maybe use that money towards your next phone :)

I am not yelling or angry at anyone, just putting across my point of view.

Cheers.

[Guest emerald7086]

well...

i do believe in taking and giving, so while i get something (should it be a leak rom or advices to tune/tweak), i think it's fair to give something, at least a simple thankyou. :)

[Guest behnaam]

So I see all the frustrations coming out from those who donated (and those who probably didn't actually donate) to developers so that they can buy themselves new phones.

I see everyone venting their frustrations in other topics and whilst I was not going to comment at first, I have since decided I will comment in a new thread just to keep the fighting out of the other topics.

I didn't donate. I admit that quite freely and happily.

I didn't donate because I had no idea to whom I was donating and to what I was donating. A 15 year old kid who claims he will create great things for this phone (who struggled to order it if I remember correctly) and another bloke who I don't know who I think also struggled to order the phone.

In my mind alarm bells were going off whilst reading the threads.

I think that maybe people should be buying their own phones, not relying on the community to purchase them. Once the developer has the phone, then they can take their sweet time in creating whatever it is they are creating, release it and then get donations.

I am happy to donate for a finished and released ROM. I ain't happy handing over my hard earned cash to kids to buy their next new toy and then fail on their promises.

I understand that the Acer might be a different beast compared to other phones, but guess what.... You should have thought of that before taking people's money.

I also understand that the developers are (hopefully) doing the best they can, but if you don't give updates and you don't give hope to those that have already outlaid money to the cause, then you are going to have upset people... People that will think you have conned them out of money all so you can have a new phone.

Now I know that I am relatively new to this site and perhaps this is the way things are done here (buying someone a phone), but for me, it just doesn't make me comfortable, so good luck to the developers, I hope you come through with the goods soon (or at least give updates on the status) and once you have completed your ROMs, then I shall donate and you can maybe use that money towards your next phone :)

I am not yelling or angry at anyone, just putting across my point of view.

Cheers.

Could you tell me something, have you worked over 8-10 hours straight on making a totally free rom for people to use, as a gift to the beatiful thing in the android world called "the community"? Did I get paid for that? No I didnt because I believed that sharing my knowledge for others to use was caring.

Now I (cant speak for others) didnt have this phone and saw the potential it had, I didnt have the phone nor did I funds for it. I asked the people having the phone if they were interested in me start putting my effort and time on this phone to bring some of the progress I've made for Hero users to Liquid, I ASKED politely, didnt force anybody in anyway whatsoever. People that believed in my efforts did donate, and Im thankful for that, since its alot easier for me to test rather than uploading stuff to somewhere for somebody without too much knowledge about android debugging to test for me.

Now its gone about 5 days since I recieved the phone and im working on it to bring something useful for u guys, not some screenshot of my WIP, but a functional thing that u actually can use. I put my time and effort in making this and aside from this I do have a life, like family, work, study and friends. I dont think anybody is surprised when I say so, since I believe most of u guys have and know that it takes a few hours each day to spend on these things. If u thought I would lock myself in a room and work with liquid roms 23h a day without any sleep and produce a fully functional dragon port even before I've even opened the phone u are totally wrong, Im going to work on it and it will take time, hopefully not much time from the planning I've made. I dont take these donations as a salary or a gift, rather a donation to help me bring this community forward, e.g. leaking new roms, producing roms etc.

And I dont understand the whole "I didnt donate, im such a smart guy, u guys where stupid since the guys u donated to sucks" campaign that some members of this community is bringing forward. I didnt rip off anybody (since I didnt take money and leave) and I answered all the questions u guys had, this is because I care.

But sure if u guys like to see screenshots of WIP that I wont release now (eventually when?) and make u have this long wait then fine, I say ur right. But Im not gonna accept the fact that some people thinks we who recieved the device from donations rip people off and dont work on this, we do, alot more then u think and see. Spent 3h yesterday working on producing.

And to the dev(s) that dont share their knowledge to bring the community forward, u will soon see that other peoples help will be needed sometimes, and that it will be hard to keep the tough style of talkingt to people.

And if u in some way feel like u have questions just ask, dont make conclusions based on a small amount of information.

[Guest scrap2434]

As i said, I am not angry or worried in any way. I am just not comfortable giving money to people I don't know for something that may or may not ever happen.

I don't discount the work developers do, nor do I take it for granted.

So really, there is no need for name calling. I have a point of view, I expressed it.

I also pointed out how I am more than happy to pay for something that I can see and use.

I am a paid member of Modaco which proves this point that I am happy to pay for something.

I just think that you guys should do more for the people that have paid so that they know where their money has gone.

So yes, giving updates or screenshots should be something you guys do for the community.

So please don't think I don't appreciate the efforts of developers, because I do. But if you get people to donate and then having nothing to show for it, people will get upset and that is already happening and I for one, wouldn't want to see a rift develop in the community.

This is not aimed at anyone inparticular, community member or developer, this is just my generalisation and my understanding of how the human race work when they don't know what is happening with their "investment"

[Guest behnaam]

As i said, I am not angry or worried in any way. I am just not comfortable giving money to people I don't know for something that may or may not ever happen.

I don't discount the work developers do, nor do I take it for granted.

So really, there is no need for name calling. I have a point of view, I expressed it.

I also pointed out how I am more than happy to pay for something that I can see and use.

I am a paid member of Modaco which proves this point that I am happy to pay for something.

I just think that you guys should do more for the people that have paid so that they know where their money has gone.

So yes, giving updates or screenshots should be something you guys do for the community.

So please don't think I don't appreciate the efforts of developers, because I do. But if you get people to donate and then having nothing to show for it, people will get upset and that is already happening and I for one, wouldn't want to see a rift develop in the community.

This is not aimed at anyone inparticular, community member or developer, this is just my generalisation and my understanding of how the human race work when they don't know what is happening with their "investment"

Sure but an investment is for the future right? So dont understand why people dont believe that people wont deliver progress, we will since nothing is impossible (atleast I believe so) and it maybe isnt in 5 days (including we actually live our normal lifes and have works during these days), maybe it will take 7-12 days to do a good thing for the users to use, its not gonna take 1-4 months to do so. But sometimes I feel like people are too eager to get stuff exactly the moment they want, and when they do they start complaining about other things, so let us do something that is good and functional and we will release, so we dont get 10-20 posts about the same bug in a ROM thread (like hero threads got in the beginning) since people just dont wanna wait for good progress.

I posted a little candy for users to use, which was the 2.000.03 leak as a proof of that peoples donations actually make possibilities for them to get more. As ur example goes, modaco plus users get extra features when getting it. So I dont see why people should not trust in me?

[Guest maxisma]

Could you tell me something, have you worked over 8-10 hours straight on making a totally free rom for people to use, as a gift to the beatiful thing in the android world called "the community"? Did I get paid for that? No I didnt because I believed that sharing my knowledge for others to use was caring.

......

And to the dev(s) that dont share their knowledge to bring the community forward, u will soon see that other peoples help will be needed sometimes, and that it will be hard to keep the tough style of talkingt to people.

And if u in some way feel like u have questions just ask, dont make conclusions based on a small amount of information.

I really agree. Couldn't have said that better.

As i said, I am not angry or worried in any way. I am just not comfortable giving money to people I don't know for something that may or may not ever happen.

I don't discount the work developers do, nor do I take it for granted.

So really, there is no need for name calling. I have a point of view, I expressed it.

I also pointed out how I am more than happy to pay for something that I can see and use.

I am a paid member of Modaco which proves this point that I am happy to pay for something.

I just think that you guys should do more for the people that have paid so that they know where their money has gone.

So yes, giving updates or screenshots should be something you guys do for the community.

So please don't think I don't appreciate the efforts of developers, because I do. But if you get people to donate and then having nothing to show for it, people will get upset and that is already happening and I for one, wouldn't want to see a rift develop in the community.

This is not aimed at anyone inparticular, community member or developer, this is just my generalisation and my understanding of how the human race work when they don't know what is happening with their "investment"

I'm a paid member too.

Ok, I took a quick screenshot. Turn it by 90° leftwards please.

And okay, I'll work more, I will put it to #1 prio, even higher than school, life, friends etc.. We devs don't have such. We just live for Android, you know?

Did I force people to donate? No.

Reminder: It wasn't a purchase. It was a donation.

I do status updates all the time I make some progress. My last one was that most binaries on AOSP Donut are working now, just a few need fixing still.

This means a possible cyanogen port for Liquid -> Themes + Eclair browser etc.

Have patience guys, this takes longer than "just" a mod of the existing stock ROM.

Edited January 19, 2010 by maxisma

[Guest three_pineapples]

.... lets not let this blow out of proportion guys...

I think there are 3 types of people

The people who didn't donate

The people who did donate knowing what they were donating too

The people who did donate and had no idea what they were doing

Its the last group that are the ones complaining that things aren't going fast enough. These people have no idea what the words "kernel source" mean. Or what it takes to make a ROM. only that it is hard, but that Behnaam, maxisma, etc can do it therefore it must be easy for them.

I don't think people should care if it takes 6 months to get a working ROM out. Donating money to something, regardless of what it is, means you give money and expect nothing in return. You have to guarantee of quality of service. And this is the way it should be. You are not buying something. Your donating, in the hope that one day you may get something out of it. But you may not. And if you can't live with that you shouldn't donate. (you can of course donate to say thanks, but that is irrelevant here).

So to be honest, i think the people complaining about not getting updates because they donated, or complaining because they don't have a working ROM after 5 days should shut the hell up :) You donated, great! Sometime in the future you can come back to the forum and you will hopefully find a working ROM for you.

For the record, i didn't donate. I was considering it, but then decided that a) i wasn't sure i wanted to use a custom rom, :) develpment seemed useless without the kernel source, c) people filled up the donations anyway!

Oh, and i don't want to take sides in this thread either (hopefully it doesn't turn ugly). I think scrap was wise not to donate because he wasn't comfortable with it. If people donated and weren't comfortable with it, then again, they are pretty stupid! But i think most people who donated aren't hassling the developers about ROMs, its just a few silly people :)

This post probably made no sense. Just everyone chill out :)

Oh and scrap, is your post aimed at developers or at the silly people who donated expecting a guaranteed service in 5 seconds?

Edited January 19, 2010 by three_pineapples

[Guest maxisma]

And I think this thread should be closed. It leads into unnecessary "wars" between devs, other devs, and the community.

[Guest goa200]

.... lets not let this blow out of proportion guys...

I think there are 3 types of people

The people who didn't donate

The people who did donate knowing what they were donating too

The people who did donate and had no idea what they were doing

Its the last group that are the ones complaining that things aren't going fast enough. These people have no idea what the words "kernel source" mean. Or what it takes to make a ROM. only that it is hard, but that Behnaam, maxisma, etc can do it therefore it must be easy for them.

I don't think people should care if it takes 6 months to get a working ROM out. Donating money to something, regardless of what it is, means you give money and expect nothing in return. You have to guarantee of quality of service. And this is the way it should be. You are not buying something. Your donating, in the hope that one day you may get something out of it. But you may not. And if you can't live with that you shouldn't donate. (you can of course donate to say thanks, but that is irrelevant here).

So to be honest, i think the people complaining about not getting updates because they donated, or complaining because they don't have a working ROM after 5 days should shut the hell up :) You donated, great! Sometime in the future you can come back to the forum and you will hopefully find a working ROM for you.

For the record, i didn't donate. I was considering it, but then decided that a) i wasn't sure i wanted to use a custom rom, :) develpment seemed useless without the kernel source, c) people filled up the donations anyway!

Oh, and i don't want to take sides in this thread either (hopefully it doesn't turn ugly). I think scrap was wise not to donate because he wasn't comfortable with it. If people donated and weren't comfortable with it, then again, they are pretty stupid! But i think most people who donated aren't hassling the developers about ROMs, its just a few silly people :)

This post probably made no sense. Just everyone chill out :)

Oh and scrap, is your post aimed at developers or at the silly people who donated expecting a guaranteed service in 5 seconds?

tbh that kinda generalization is even worse than posting here being disapointed in the promises made towards the donors. You make a post and more or less calling people stupid and that they should stfu. please do enligthen me just how you contribute to this thread with your elitism attitude? and you already taken a side, the devs side in this matter.

And this whole topic is beating an already dead horse.

Edited January 19, 2010 by goa200

[Guest daft009]

guys.. arguing on the net is useless.. gets u nowhere :)

maxisma & behnaam...keep up the good work!

I'm sure we'll all get to see the fruits of your labour when its done & ready :)

good luck! :)

[Guest scrap2434]

Oh and scrap, is your post aimed at developers or at the silly people who donated expecting a guaranteed service in 5 seconds?

It is just aimed at everyone in general.

Aimed at those who donated expecting things straight away

Aimed at developers taking donations that they knew had expectations attached to them and not giving updates

communication leads to happier people I guess is the point.

I don't envy the developers though... I wouldn't even know where to start if I wanted to create a ROM... not that I would, I couldn't deal with the expectations :)

[Guest behnaam]

little off topic but I second dafts post with this:

[Removed it]

Edited January 19, 2010 by behnaam

[Guest scrap2434]

*sigh*

Really no need for that. Let's hope that no one here has a family member that is retarded and takes offence.... seriously.

[Guest behnaam]

*sigh*

Really no need for that. Let's hope that no one here has a family member that is retarded and takes offence.... seriously.

Just couldnt hold that back, no offence, but the time for that post was epic

Edit: BTW my cousin is retarded so I didnt mean to offence anybody

Edited January 19, 2010 by behnaam

[Guest three_pineapples]

tbh that kinda generalization is even worse than posting here being disapointed in the promises made towards the donors. You make a post and more or less calling people stupid and that they should stfu. please do enligthen me just how you contribute to this thread with your elitism attitude? and you already taken a side, the devs side in this matter.

And this whole topic is beating an already dead horse.

You know, i was sitting here thinking how i could argue that i'm not being elitist. But then, if you consider trying to enlighten people that

a) no promises were made

:) no one asked to be paid, they asked for DONATIONS

Then perhaps i am being elitist. I don't care if i am.

If a Dev sells their work, you have a right to demand the service you PAID for. But thats not what is happening here.

I'll retract my statement about people should stfu. Bitch and complain all you want. I'm sure Dev's will release roms quicker with that attitude.

[Guest Uberadri]

Stop fighting! What is good for?

There is no meaning in a race, "dev x did something that is harder than dev y did" and so on.

Don't you see all the devs; Paul, maxisma, behnaam, lickonn and Angio (and others) alike want to develop for the Liquid community. maxisma and behnaam asked for donations up front, and a lot of users willingly donated. You donated, you didn't buy something with a warranty. There were no other conditions than that they would stay on the forums and do some developing for the Liquid. And they have done that. They didn't set any timeframe. The other developers are developing entirely for free. Maybe they are hoping for some donations after they release.

There is nothing wrong with asking for donations before or after developing. If you think it is wrong to donate to someone/at some point, you are/were free to choose not donating (yet).

Also, the best result will be achieved if the developers work together. If some of the developers are afraid that other developers are going to take credit for their work, why don't go in for a deal? Like all developers has to state promptly who made what in their releases and link to donate to the other developers involved.

Anyway, thanks to all the developers for their work until now, and I'm hoping they all will stay and continue. :)

If the rumors are true about the kernel source arriving soon, I believe the devs here will produce some nice usable stuff quite soon.

If you want do stay up to date on what the developers do, here's their Twitter pages:

maxisma

behnaam

Angio

[Guest chunga]

oh... I miss cyanogem.. one rom a day.... oh my!

[Guest Elmokki]

This is pretty ludicrous really. People who donated donated money for someone who claimed to buy an Acer Liquid and develop stuff for it. As far as I know, both guys who asked for donations here did buy the phone and most probably have developed stuff, since if they'd be total hoaxes I doubt they'd bother to hang out here any longer. When you're donating money to someone you don't know, you should be happy they're using the donations to what they claimed they'd do.

The bottomlnie is: you didn't pay for software development, you donated money for someone to buy a phone so he can develop software of his liking at his own pace.

I didn't donate, because I didn't feel like giving out money to people without knowing that I'll recieve something in return. I'll gladly donate a few euros if someone does something groundbreaking I'll love to use, but before that I'll keep my money to myself. If you donated money and are whining about not recieving results faster than from people you didn't donate to, you're expecting too much. Next time pool money and hire someone to do software development instead of pooling money to buy someone a phone.

Next time you want to buy stuff, make sure to read before you hand out money as a donation.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Elmokki

[Guest syncro]

eheheheh tonight in this forum we only need Ophra and the TV show can start :)

However I think that everyone can do what they want with his money... I give a little offer to these developers because I believe in this community and I'm very happy to see people working on Acer Liquid without follow the last and easiest (root available, sources, ...) creature Nexus One.

I want also quote the second post of emerald7086 because I think this is the right way to feel a community.

syncro.

[Guest navygino]

So I see all the frustrations coming out from those who donated (and those who probably didn't actually donate) to developers so that they can buy themselves new phones.

I see everyone venting their frustrations in other topics and whilst I was not going to comment at first, I have since decided I will comment in a new thread just to keep the fighting out of the other topics.

I didn't donate. I admit that quite freely and happily.

I didn't donate because I had no idea to whom I was donating and to what I was donating. A 15 year old kid who claims he will create great things for this phone (who struggled to order it if I remember correctly) and another bloke who I don't know who I think also struggled to order the phone.

In my mind alarm bells were going off whilst reading the threads.

I think that maybe people should be buying their own phones, not relying on the community to purchase them. Once the developer has the phone, then they can take their sweet time in creating whatever it is they are creating, release it and then get donations.

I am happy to donate for a finished and released ROM. I ain't happy handing over my hard earned cash to kids to buy their next new toy and then fail on their promises.

I understand that the Acer might be a different beast compared to other phones, but guess what.... You should have thought of that before taking people's money.

I also understand that the developers are (hopefully) doing the best they can, but if you don't give updates and you don't give hope to those that have already outlaid money to the cause, then you are going to have upset people... People that will think you have conned them out of money all so you can have a new phone.

Now I know that I am relatively new to this site and perhaps this is the way things are done here (buying someone a phone), but for me, it just doesn't make me comfortable, so good luck to the developers, I hope you come through with the goods soon (or at least give updates on the status) and once you have completed your ROMs, then I shall donate and you can maybe use that money towards your next phone :)

I am not yelling or angry at anyone, just putting across my point of view.

Cheers.

Easy man, you have the freedom to donate or not to donate.

You are smart enough that you can just stay still and watch the movie.

I don't see any value of your long post but just pissing everybody off.

Acknowledge and thanks.

[Guest scrap2434]

Not trying to upset anyone. Just moving the discussion out of a ROM thread so we can save those threads for what they are there for.

Perhaps I need to clarify my position a bit as maybe it got lost in my long drawn out post:

- People who donate do so at their own risk and a donation is not a commitment to provide anything

- Developers need to realise that even though it is a donation, there is expectation attached to it from a majority of people.

- I feel that payment for a finished product rather than a "donation" would lead to less people whinging and bugging developers for a finished product

- Developers that accept donations should communicate updates/status at the place where people donated (espeically when they promise things)

- Not everyone twitters. Post updates in the community, would make life easier and reach everyone involved.

[Guest Uberadri]

@scrap2434

1. Agreed

2. Agreed, but developers won't work any faster because donators are complaining.

3. Future developers and donators should think about this. But what is done is done.

4. Maybe developers should post more details in their thread to make it clear they are doing something. Or maybe I should make a "News from Twitter thread"?

[Guest navygino]

Not trying to upset anyone. Just moving the discussion out of a ROM thread so we can save those threads for what they are there for.

Perhaps I need to clarify my position a bit as maybe it got lost in my long drawn out post:

- People who donate do so at their own risk and a donation is not a commitment to provide anything

- Developers need to realise that even though it is a donation, there is expectation attached to it from a majority of people.

- I feel that payment for a finished product rather than a "donation" would lead to less people whinging and bugging developers for a finished product

- Developers that accept donations should communicate updates/status at the place where people donated (espeically when they promise things)

- Not everyone twitters. Post updates in the community, would make life easier and reach everyone involved.

Thank you for rephrase your whole idea!!

I believe everyone can understand and accept your point of view easily now!!

Let's maintain peaceful discussion atmosphere!

:)

[Guest behnaam]

I dont think Paul would like all devs to make a thread with their current status on production. Twitter is open for everyone to access and many do have it, and if they see us posting in threads they know we still are alive. Better is to wait for a rom to be released and status updates comes in that, to keep the community clean and easy for users to read, or this will become Twitdaco ;P

thats just my 2 cents.... and btw we know people expect stuff from us, thats why we bother posting in threads and make tweets about progress :)

[Guest Lorents]

I didnt get this thread at all. Whats the point in dissing people who donated?

I am not yelling or angry at anyone, just putting across my point of view.

Glad you're not angry - no reason to be either since you didnt donate :)

Anyway if people here want to increase the chances of getting a nice rom from these gyus you should start cheering instead of complaining. They are doing this on their spare time and good solutions require creativity witch is fueld by motivation. By naging you kill motivation and creativity and in addition they spend time here defending themselves instead of useful time behind the rom ktichen :)