Why doesnt Android close the door on apple!?

[Guest Touch Graphite]

Its a generic one but considering this forum is the only one I'm registered on, I was wondering.

If android and apple are truly into a OS/device war, why doesnt google bang 2 brain cells together and realise that restricting anything that has a Mac or Apple signature to their services such as Google.co.uk/.com and google Maps/docs.

Although this would maybe contradict their view of being open source and 'free for all', technically, most people buy on the strength of the devices strengths.

Who knows how many iphones, ipads and ipods have moved on the strength of the massive app store they have.

And how many apps communicate through google servers etc.

Maybe a 'whoopsee-dayzee' accidental button press on googles side for a day or two would really show the smartphone world whos holding the keys!?

Anyone remember Sky Vs Virgin media spat a few months back when they suspended Sky1 and sky sports/films and all that to virgin customers, seeing as my mother in law was with them and I continued to enjoy all my favourite programmes, this clear display of whos who really opens peoples eyes.

The only reason apple are the way they are is because of billions of engineers hours are devoted to a seemless OS with the devices high price to offset this high bill.

And anything with a high price, regardless whether it works or not, is fashion! Lacoste clothing is an example, whack a crocodile on it and its instantly a better shirt!? NO. Its £400 just because of that icon.

The reason why everyone wants an iphone is because not everyone cant afford an iphone.

[Guest phil-t]

Its a generic one but considering this forum is the only one I'm registered on, I was wondering.

If android and apple are truly into a OS/device war, why doesnt google bang 2 brain cells together and realise that restricting anything that has a Mac or Apple signature to their services such as Google.co.uk/.com and google Maps/docs.

Although this would maybe contradict their view of being open source and 'free for all', technically, most people buy on the strength of the devices strengths.

Who knows how many iphones, ipads and ipods have moved on the strength of the massive app store they have.

And how many apps communicate through google servers etc.

Maybe a 'whoopsee-dayzee' accidental button press on googles side for a day or two would really show the smartphone world whos holding the keys!?

Anyone remember Sky Vs Virgin media spat a few months back when they suspended Sky1 and sky sports/films and all that to virgin customers, seeing as my mother in law was with them and I continued to enjoy all my favourite programmes, this clear display of whos who really opens peoples eyes.

The only reason apple are the way they are is because of billions of engineers hours are devoted to a seemless OS with the devices high price to offset this high bill.

And anything with a high price, regardless whether it works or not, is fashion! Lacoste clothing is an example, whack a crocodile on it and its instantly a better shirt!? NO. Its £400 just because of that icon.

The reason why everyone wants an iphone is because not everyone cant afford an iphone.

It's all about money, Google get money for people using its services, as businesses pay Google the more traffic sent their way (that's a simplistic generalization), so if they took services off apple product, that's a chunk of people suddenly not generating traffic through Google services.

[Guest MonkeyBoy451]

It's all about money, Google get money for people using its services, as businesses pay Google the more traffic sent their way (that's a simplistic generalization), so if they took services off apple product, that's a chunk of people suddenly not generating traffic through Google services.

Exactly.

Doing it their current way and being platform agnostic - they get to have their cake (gingerbread!) and eat it too!!

[Guest paulsmith]

Google just want more people to use the internet - they are not that concerned about locking you in.

More people - more ads - more money. It really is as simple as that.

In googles view , the only reason for android is to stop another single company (like apple) controlling everything and then locking users out of google services. This is why android is released in open source form and devices such as the vega exist without needing googles permission. (Exceptions being the android market and other).

[Guest SilentMobius]

Its a generic one but considering this forum is the only one I'm registered on, I was wondering.

If android and apple are truly into a OS/device war, why doesnt google bang 2 brain cells together and realise that restricting anything that has a Mac or Apple signature to their services such as Google.co.uk/.com and google Maps/docs.

Because Apple isn't the enemy.

We may have issues with iOS/WM/WP7/WebOS/Blackberry but Google don't really care. Their business model is "Organise information and make money from that" be it ads or search or whatever. They are enabled by technology not selling technology.

As a developer and a tinkerer iOS really bugs me, and the smug attitudes of many of the brand adherents does annoy me. To be honest I don't much get on with OSX either, but I love their industrial design. The dominance of the iPhone irritated me and I'll be happy when it's second or third place again, but really, Apple aren't any worse that any other tech-selling company.

[Guest English Haze]

And blocking Apple users is then no better then Apple restricting and controlling what it's customers can do with their devices already. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Guest friedgoldmole]

Anyone remember Sky Vs Virgin media spat a few months back when they suspended Sky1 and sky sports/films and all that to virgin customers, seeing as my mother in law was with them and I continued to enjoy all my favourite programmes, this clear display of whos who really opens peoples eyes.

I work for Virgin Media so may have a biased view, but the reason Virgin dropped the sky channels was due to the amount of money Sky was trying to get for them, obviously it did have an impact on Virgins subscribers, but it also had a major impact on Skys advertising revenue, as it effectively cut the number of viewers by quite a large amount which is something advertisers were not happy about, its a similar situation with the iphone, it is not in Googles interest to deny Apple users access to its services when they bring in a lot of advertising revenue.

[Guest rferrett]

Also, in addition to the good points already raised, even if Google *wanted* to do this it would certainly be illegal under EU competition law. And owuld probably fall foul of the US anti-trust laws.

So no motivation and theyd probably get in legal hot water over it.

Ralph

[Guest Touch Graphite]

Woah, woah, woah!

Be cool! It was only a suggestion, the word 'wondering' was used in the first line!

But this thread was inspried by electricpigs blog post months back on the current revenue currently being enjoyed by Apple:

According to Trefis, iPhone makes up $209 billion of Apple’s $391 billion worth, enough to make it one of the biggest standalone companies in the world. Take a look at the companies Trefis suggest iPhone knocks out of the water:

Apple is bigger than 8 out of the 9 largest consumer firms – Coca Cola ($138 billion), Pepsi ($105 billion) and Nike ($33 billion) all live in the iOS device’s shadow.

Trefis reckons iPhone outguns 7 out of the the top 10 tech companies with Intel ($151 billion), HP ($130 billion) and Google ($204 billion).

You all say, AND I AGREE, that google need the web hits to keep making their money, but when AND LETS BE HONEST, a company dedicated to a handset is making more than google combined, let alone the web search revenues from the device. Surely common sense would weigh up the options.

I was watching Google I/Os the other week, and hilarious as it was (Ive never laughed as hard as that for a long while), their constant digs towards ipads and apple's choices of not using flash etc made me laugh theres some real sour puss bubbling under the surface.

With google not deciding to move on its stance of choices, and with apple is sitting on a beach, earning 20%, what are the way forward for android to become top?

[Guest Touch Graphite]

And might I add, the iphone makes up over half of apples revenue, for a device thats been out just a few years compared to google search engines.

But what about the lack of flash?

What about the stupidly expensive handsets and lack of customisation?

What about apps that took 5 seconds to write but make you re-mortgage if you want to buy them!?

As you can see, people dont care.

[Guest godinandroid]

Why doesn't google shut off apple? What would happen is apple developed their own search engine? Imagine the uptake? They could screw google in 2 years if they wanted. EVERY apple user would use their search engine on both apple and microsoft devices, that's already a huge proportion of the market, then, using their advertising genius they would take the rest of the market, easy.

[Guest Bobbler]

And might I add, the iphone makes up over half of apples revenue, for a device thats been out just a few years compared to google search engines.

But what about the lack of flash?

What about the stupidly expensive handsets and lack of customisation?

What about apps that took 5 seconds to write but make you re-mortgage if you want to buy them!?

As you can see, people dont care.

My personal opinion, which I am sure you are going to disagree with but is not any less valid than your own really:

Lack of flash? Seriously, it's something the "alternatives" often cite like it's a missing a serious ability or similar, but in 3 years of being an Iphone owner I have never found it an issue. I want to surf the web then I use a computer, when I am out and about (on restricted 3G coverage that the UK gets to "enjoy" with AUPs and FUPs galore stifling that ability) I really don't care as I usually find the browsing far more casual - getting an address or pickign up some emails, reading news that sort of thing. I had the whole Windows phone experience to compare to granted, but I just appreciate not having a PDA operating system under the hood with skins on top to make it finger friendly on the surface.

Expensive I would agree with, to an extent, but in comparison to another premium handset not really much in it. But you also have to remember that there is a complete lack of competition with Iphone vendors in general - the entire thing is completely price fixed beyond belief, with all major telcos dropping much the same contracts and costs because they can.

Lack of customisation is another thing I wouldn't even give second thought to, I have seen many a skin pack on various Nokia N's, SE, Windows phones etc and its not something I would be clambering for - really, a lot of it is plain rubbish with very few skins that actually add anything to the experience of the phone...which actually brings me nicely to what is good on the IOS, simply put the whole way it works together software, interface and functionality is what makes it a good device, and that very restricted platform is what keeps it that way IMO.

Android is a great bit of kit, granted, but I would rather not be walking into a store and picking a phone like I do a computer - how much ram, what CPU, what screen, capactive or resistive touch screen, will it or wont it run XYZ app. The lack of restriction on platform choice is effectively what is stopping the take up on it. Again IMO of course.

It's not a lack of caring, I am a tech at heart, but just some days I like to just use a product rather than be hacking at it all day long - as fun as that can be :)

[Guest OwenRW]

Lack of flash? Seriously, it's something the "alternatives" often cite like it's a missing a serious ability or similar, but in 3 years of being an Iphone owner I have never found it an issue. I want to surf the web then I use a computer...

What about the iPad? You're supposed to use this a semi-computer replacement.

Android is a great bit of kit, granted, but I would rather not be walking into a store and picking a phone like I do a computer - how much ram, what CPU, what screen, capactive or resistive touch screen, will it or wont it run XYZ app. The lack of restriction on platform choice is effectively what is stopping the take up on it. Again IMO of course.

Ah yes, because the different iPhone and iPad and iPod Touch models all have exactly the same CPU and RAM, as well as the same features such as front facing cameras and 3G... This seems to be something that Apple along with their fanboiz!!111111!!!1!1!! seem to conveniently forget.

[Guest Bobbler]

What about the iPad? You're supposed to use this a semi-computer replacement.

Ah yes, because the different iPhone and iPad and iPod Touch models all have exactly the same CPU and RAM, as well as the same features such as front facing cameras and 3G... This seems to be something that Apple along with their fanboiz!!111111!!!1!1!! seem to conveniently forget.

Can't even be bothered to reply with anything thoughtful as obviously speaking to angry fanboys - that's how you spell it by the way without the need for child like text-speak.

Iphone is better than your POS Android fragmentation platform. Get over it. At least I can buy any of the devices and get a similar experience with the majority of apps being available on any of the devices,

BTW you know the Vega is shipping without flash - this is supposed to be used as a semi-computer replacement LOL

BTW you also know the Vega is shipping without the Google market, how's that "open" and not fragmented exactly?

Edited December 18, 2010 by Bobbler

[Guest obb]

Can't even be bothered to reply with anything thoughtful as obviously speaking to angry fanboys - that's how you spell it by the way without the need for child like text-speak.

Iphone is better than your POS Android fragmentation platform. Get over it. At least I can buy any of the devices and get a similar experience with the majority of apps being available on any of the devices,

BTW you know the Vega is shipping without flash - this is supposed to be used as a semi-computer replacement LOL

BTW you also know the Vega is shipping without the Google market, how's that "open" and not fragmented exactly?

Easy boys calm down ......

The fragmentation argument has been done to death and it's a cheap one at that ... there is fragmentation on ANY platform IOS included. Where u see fragmentation I see choice.

If you think that android is a POS then why are u even on this forum in all honesty ... its called trolling ....

I don't disagree with the comments BTW

In the end IOS is for the people who don't want to worry about the tech and just get on with it. That's what it does best ... Android is for people who like to tweak and like to have choice as to how to set their device up. That's what it does best.

Can we put our toys down now please and start acting like adults again ..... :)

[Guest Touch Graphite]

Thanks for your structured response Bobbler, its nice to hear from an iPhone owner who just bought it for its pure all out functionality and not because steve jobs said so. Apple fanboiz are those that buy anything apple, no mater what it is, no matter what it does, JUST TO SAY THAT THEY OWN ONE.

Apple and android have grown so large now that the industry cant help but examine both ideas and future products with a microscope and see where these companies are going.

Its clear that Apple seem to sniff out the best ideas first and really make a product that even the market, given that product, cant even match let alone better it.

I have immense respect for the quality and smoothness of apple products, it just the direction of the company that concerns me.

Apple just seem to adopt this, 'if your going that way, we're going this way' policy, just to be known as the ones that never followed the track.

Take the flash/HTML5 war alone!

Taking the comments on board earlier, the lack of customisation wasnt an issue for most iphone owners, they didnt care that they had serious restrictions on their phone experience which was there in the past (lack of bluetooth files, drag and drop from different devices, no customisation of the device in anyway).

But came the day when the word 'jailbreak' was cemented into everyones memory and then apple woke up and realises people were crying out for customisation, to the point where some of the features magically crept into the OS4 run. Funny that.

I suppose one question we ask oursevles is, if apple made a product as good as they do, but with the connectivity and freedom that others offer, we'd all be falling over to buy them.

One question to Bobbler though, if google supposedly restricted your google access, how would this affect your daily usage? (How many google products do you use)

And would this affect your decision to buy the device if this was imposed!?

[Guest Touch Graphite]

And back onto the subject that 'any growth is good growth' simply doesnt wash when it does to business.

There was a program on a few months back (which i didnt watch) about the worrying concerns that Tesco were growing so fast, offering so many services, from finance to funeral care (no doubt) that if one company held the industry to ransom then the future is a difficult one.

There needs to be equal share of the market with equal growth and development.

Its good to have competition but also each manufacturer to match and outbid the next big thing.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Touch Graphite

[Guest Bobbler]

Thanks for your structured response Bobbler, its nice to hear from an iPhone owner who just bought it for its pure all out functionality and not because steve jobs said so. Apple fanboiz are those that buy anything apple, no mater what it is, no matter what it does, JUST TO SAY THAT THEY OWN ONE.

Apple and android have grown so large now that the industry cant help but examine both ideas and future products with a microscope and see where these companies are going.

Its clear that Apple seem to sniff out the best ideas first and really make a product that even the market, given that product, cant even match let alone better it.

I have immense respect for the quality and smoothness of apple products, it just the direction of the company that concerns me.

Apple just seem to adopt this, 'if your going that way, we're going this way' policy, just to be known as the ones that never followed the track.

Take the flash/HTML5 war alone!

Taking the comments on board earlier, the lack of customisation wasnt an issue for most iphone owners, they didnt care that they had serious restrictions on their phone experience which was there in the past (lack of bluetooth files, drag and drop from different devices, no customisation of the device in anyway).

But came the day when the word 'jailbreak' was cemented into everyones memory and then apple woke up and realises people were crying out for customisation, to the point where some of the features magically crept into the OS4 run. Funny that.

I suppose one question we ask oursevles is, if apple made a product as good as they do, but with the connectivity and freedom that others offer, we'd all be falling over to buy them.

One question to Bobbler though, if google supposedly restricted your google access, how would this affect your daily usage? (How many google products do you use)

And would this affect your decision to buy the device if this was imposed!?

Most certainly agree with that, put it this way, if Google pulled access to IOS devices I would be completely lost end of story. My entire email system (I own a couple of domains that we have had for donkeys years now) is GMail based as I don't like to manage local mail files anymore - there is just no point when I need access to the entire archive for research and digging up old notes and things from anywhere be it at work on my laptop, at home on the PC, across the world in an internet cafe or on the go from my phone (whatever phone that may be, I have a work Blackberry to contend with next month).

I really don't expect that to happen, Google is foremost a search provider and that is where it's money comes from. To kill off provision to a platform based on it's OS in use would be petty and likely get so much negative press that it would be counter productive. What would be next? Windows users kicked off too because they are not using Google OS? Not going to happen is it when it's still massively the most popular OS choice in the world and would be business suicide to Googles lucrative advertising revenue stream - Source http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

The old adage - you get better results from carrot than stick - springs to mind. Beating people into submission doesn't work as well as offering a better alternative I am sure you will agree. But this is currently where it falls over a little - Apples control on the hardware and software platform is being perceived by the open source crowd as being damaging in some way, but it is this very control that gives it that edge over the competitive products.

This is what I mean by the fragmentation - agreed done to death on Engadget over the last few months articles, but then so has the whole Flash comments :) - it's not that the Apple products are the same, what you are talking about from Iphone 1 to 4 is an upgrade path, there is currently a couple devices, with only one of them being likely to be bought so a spec is a known quantity and a choice of 3 (3g, 3gs, 4). Whereas today I can look at the latest Android devices just released in the last few weeks and we have a whole range of processors - single core Rockchips, Dual Tegras, HD/non HD screens, single/multi input based touch, then the whole OS thing - this is my main worry for Android, that you can very easily buy a device and have no ability to move to the upgraded OS, save community sites such as this and it was this very question - after following the Vega before it even appeared on most the tech blogs - that lead me to this site from a post on another forum I was on.

It wouldn't make me change platform for a couple of reasons though, firstly I have "invested" money in apps (and I deliberately say that with the quotes, it annoys me that I have to buy software for a phone to enable me to move files over Wifi and similar type of affairs- sans Jailbreak of course ) over the years, we have made countless purchases of games and other software that I cannot transfer - this is damn annoying whichever platform you are migrating from/to Android, Blackberry, Apple or Windows Phone - that you have to purchase over again. Second is my contract tie in which is not going to go away.

Who knows what the future may bring though, we will see all manner of technology in ALL platforms over the coming next few years and I am excited by that. Thinking on what I have seen come of the last few years, who would have ever thought a full internet experience in the palm of your hand or the ability to store months of songs/videos would be anything other than science fiction let alone all of this to happen in any one device!

I think also part of my choice of the device was the clarity on the contracts at that point in time - literally my previous Windows or Nokia N's have been completely stifled in usage because of the non-bundled data contracts we all used to put up with - with the Iphone when it came out I didn't have to worry about getting my mail on the go or browsing some RSS feeds and the like while waiting for a train or having a break at work.

I am not a great fan of how Apple do things in general nowadays- they have IMO got too big for their boots at the moment, cocky and full of themselves...

I don't see that changing fast, people have this whole perception of Apple being cool to own or something - really not a part of the thing I subscribe to, I bought the device because it suited my needs entirely, I certainly am not one for fashionable choices, I leave that for the kids and townies who think that being "it" is the be all and end all of getting on in life rather than work and basing your choices not on the decisions of your peers but by the thorough investigation of the alternative choices to form a well rounded choice.

Apologies for the Android comment BTW, the anger took me LOL I am not here to troll, but I will comment on things which I don't think are true representation of the entire community of users. We are not all fanboys/fashion freaks or even all hackers/modders of devices and 'nix gurus either. I will flirt with whatever platform and device suits my needs, I think to maintain a single sided viewpoint of that choice is narrow minded at best.

[Guest Bobbler]

And back onto the subject that 'any growth is good growth' simply doesnt wash when it does to business.

There was a program on a few months back (which i didnt watch) about the worrying concerns that Tesco were growing so fast, offering so many services, from finance to funeral care (no doubt) that if one company held the industry to ransom then the future is a difficult one.

There needs to be equal share of the market with equal growth and development.

Its good to have competition but also each manufacturer to match and outbid the next big thing.

We have witnessed the rise and fall of Microsoft the last few years - beaten to death by anti-competitive EU rulings and similar - they appear to be a shadow of their former selves now in regards to their practises, at one point they are closer to being Tesco than I think Apple will ever be. Beware the sleeping giant and all that, but I think they have completely lost their edge.

Apple are certainly not ones for value though, exactly what way can you get their platform at a sub £400 price point? Never going to attain world domination with an entry point of that when an MS powered PC is available for around £200 in a netbook format. I still don't understand why Linux has failed to really grab the market share at this end. Marketing spend (across the lot of partners shipping Linux on boxes) is all I can think of, to get it into the heart and minds of real run of the mill consumers is all about advertising. It's too late when they are in PC World and picking what they want based on the fact that it's what they use at work TBH. And anyone technical enough to know the difference will have already made their minds up before they order.

Tesco has remained completely unchecked - and I don't think ANY company should be allowed to take, what is it? 12.5p out of EVERY pound spend in the UK??? That is simply ludicrous power over an entire market and worse the businesses that supply it are being ground down to nothing too - so they are beating in both ways, killing supply prices and driving the whole retail cost to the consumer. It's a whole other conversation but I have long kept an eye on certain products that Tescos sell for way over the cost I can get them elsewhere and because they dictate the market the other players match their prices.

Eggs - simple as that. I have bought eggs from my local farm shop (a very good place actually, does a wonderful range of specialist foods and the like) for years at around 70-90p a dozen over that time, these are free-range organic fed top of the line eggs. The same thing, at Tescos is well over a £1.50 price point. If a small individual farm shop can make a profit with their small buying power and get a supplier happy to provide at that price that they too are making a decent profit, why is it that Tesco charge over 50% higher for the same thing?

[Guest OwenRW]

Can't even be bothered to reply with anything thoughtful as obviously speaking to angry fanboys - that's how you spell it by the way without the need for child like text-speak.

Iphone is better than your POS Android fragmentation platform. Get over it. At least I can buy any of the devices and get a similar experience with the majority of apps being available on any of the devices,

BTW you know the Vega is shipping without flash - this is supposed to be used as a semi-computer replacement LOL

BTW you also know the Vega is shipping without the Google market, how's that "open" and not fragmented exactly?

Jees, relax. Sounds like you need to take some anger management classes. I figured writing fanboiz the way I did might have indicated my reply was at least partially tongue-in-cheek.

People like you and your attitude are exactly why I rarely post on forums anymore and why despite registering around 3 years ago I have rarely posted.

[Guest warriorscot]

If you think microsoft have lost their edge you are living in some fairy land they still dominate the market on the PC and have big shares in other markets they were not part of in the past. Anyone can make a good OS on restricted hardware getting something to work on everything is hard and windows does that and it takes a huge amount of work to keep doing it. Apple really hasn't shown all that much growth in the PC market device are better known know than they were but have always had reasonable sales levels. They will never dominate the of market like windows or linux can because hardware and software can't be that tied together and have a healthy marketplace and innovation.

The big change for apple was the ipod and everything that hasn't led on from it to lead to ipad and iphone. The hardware and software integration that doesn't really work as well on PC is much more useful on a portable device. They have a niche and are sticking to it and that is good for them and lots of people that need a simple solution to their needs that apple can provide. However you need an alternative the hardware market and a lot of thhe development community would die off with and apple only world.

Really if you are a member of a sites like this the apple ethos isn't likely to work for you.

[Guest emergant]

If you think microsoft have lost their edge you are living in some fairy land they still dominate the market on the PC and have big shares in other markets they were not part of in the past. Anyone can make a good OS on restricted hardware getting something to work on everything is hard and windows does that and it takes a huge amount of work to keep doing it. Apple really hasn't shown all that much growth in the PC market device are better known know than they were but have always had reasonable sales levels. They will never dominate the of market like windows or linux can because hardware and software can't be that tied together and have a healthy marketplace and innovation.

The big change for apple was the ipod and everything that hasn't led on from it to lead to ipad and iphone. The hardware and software integration that doesn't really work as well on PC is much more useful on a portable device. They have a niche and are sticking to it and that is good for them and lots of people that need a simple solution to their needs that apple can provide. However you need an alternative the hardware market and a lot of thhe development community would die off with and apple only world.

Really if you are a member of a sites like this the apple ethos isn't likely to work for you.

Well to give apple credit, they did open up the tablet and smartphone markets. Theyre good at the UI thing. There laptops are nice and still represent an open software platform.

I dont like the company any better than I like MS though. Personally I have no interest in an I anything but I do have a macbook

[Guest Bobbler]

Really if you are a member of a sites like this the apple ethos isn't likely to work for you.

No worries, in the few posts I have made its quite clear now that this site is really an unfriendly ignorant bunch.

Not really the sort of community spirit I would have expected to be honest, considering the open source, but it does once again re-affirm the open source, but closed minded nature.

Possibly the most unfriendly site I have encountered thus far on the net, and that is saying something.

[Guest arad85]

Possibly the most unfriendly site I have encountered thus far on the net, and that is saying something.

If you want rude on the net, join the ffmpeg developers list for a day or so...

[Guest warriorscot]

Well to give apple credit, they did open up the tablet and smart-phone markets. They're good at the UI thing. There laptops are nice and still represent an open software platform.

I would probably say palm did that I remember my first hand-held which was a clie that was pretty brilliant for its day, its actually still usable which is something. I remember all the hassle of getting a 64Mb memory stick for it because they were just starting to become available in stores. Apple definitely opened it up to the masses I will say but it was definitely built off the backs of the progress and lessons from palmOS and others. Its actually nice to see palm start to make a comeback as well.

Apple makes really nice hardware they do a good job of it, if only they were a little less like the SS when it comes to the software that goes on it the company would do better. I never see the point of locking it down the way they do, fair enough shipping it the way you want it but if you buy it you should be able to make any changes you want.

Possibly the most unfriendly site I have encountered thus far on the net, and that is saying something.

I wouldn't say so, everyone has been really helpful so far and had some good conversations. If you think this is unfriendly you must have some pretty tame tastes when it comes to the internet. Some of your own posts have been fairly aggressive in tone and that can rub people up the wrong way. And remember this is an Android modding community if you bash it or what people are doing they aren't going to take it as well as if you posted the same in a general discussion forum. Its pretty much the epitome of what I was saying the Android ethos vs. the Apple ethos don't match up someone that like one won't get along as well with people who like the other.

Edited December 18, 2010 by warriorscot