29 replies to this topic

[PaulOBrien]

Hey all!

Just to clear up some misconceptions about Trip's departure... all we asked of Trip re: his ROMs was to release source when he uses his own kernels (NOT HTC kernels, his own kernels, if you've been around here a bit you'll know that he has only recently switched to HTC kernels) and to be respectful to other members - the same rules that apply to everyone.

We've just asked that he keeps any GPL obligations, simple as that. Trip is not a victim, be very clear. I've contacted him personally to let him know that he is still welcome on the forums (and i've made this clear all along) and if he needs help with anything he can give me a shout directly.

That is all. Feel free to contact me directly or post your thoughts here (don't be abusive, that's against forum rules and I will delete your posts), but as always I'm open to intelligent comment / debate should you wish.

P

[kadeus]

Thanks for the official statement, Paul.

I do have a couple of questions (genuine, not trying to stir the pot any more). I just can't help but feel that there are more reasons than just the GPL obligations, but I might be wrong.

- I gather from your message that he had been warned about this a few times. Is that correct? If it is, wouldn't you say that his switching to the HTC kernel was at least partially correcting the wrongdoing with his previous custom kernel? I keep hearing that the problem were the kernels he released BEFORE he switched to the HTC leaked one, but yet the closing of his threads happened AFTER, which I don't understand.

- I also feel that he was probably not very welcome because of the tone of his answers, which I would totally understand, btw. But if that is the case, I think it should be made clear as well. Also, if that is indeed the case, I'd like to point out that heated arguments are usually sparked by more than one person, and I do feel that Vorbeth has strongly contributed to this. For example, as a passive reader of this forum, I have never felt insulted by Trip (although I have seen him do it to other people), but I certainly have felt offended by some of Vorbeth's comments.

That's it. I just wanted to leave my humble opinion and get clarification on those points if possible. This has been a very useful and interesting forum for me, and I'd rather stick around with the same people if everyone does their share to calm down.

[GaryMachete]

Agree with kadeus. Now, I do believe forum rules and etiquette are set for a reason, but this I don't agree with.
If trip is making these roms for us, for free, with no obligation to flash, I consider that a huge favor. Some people donate, some dont, but to sit there and ask someone to give u a gift and then badger them about how they made it seems silly. On xda, the forums get cluttered with copies of roms that og devs spent lots of time on.
Why do we need trips kernel source? So someone can hack it there own personal way so it runs to their precise specifications? If u can do that, then u can prolly just as easy build your own kernel.
Maybe I'm confused about the situation, and maybe trip has acted childish, but I seriously appreciate his help in keeping my sensation better than any other phone.
So, yea, bummer he's gone. I'm sure without him this site will see a major % less use. But I do understand the pride in sticking to what you believe in.

[GaryMachete]

And can u please let Vorbeth know that, yes, he is extremely offensive and he is the reason I will be leaving this forum, not trips absence. He has turned this into a tattle tale and insult laden battle. I will not stand for being referred to as a fan boy just because Vorbeth is butthurt that trip wouldn't friend him. Might wanna clean his latest posts, he sounds like a dick.

[kadeus]

GaryMachete, releasing the source for the kernel is required by the GPL license, so that is a fair point. Besides, it's also noted in the forum rules, so it's fair enough to ban/warn someone for not complying.

My point & question was that, in my opinion, Trip switching to the HTC kernel shows some intent to undo any wrongdoing, so I'm surprised that his exclusion comes right after that, and that the reason given is that he did not release the source for his PREVIOUS custom kernel.
I don't know, it just feels like maybe closing posts for older releases was enough.

But then again, I might be missing other info, hence the original question.

GaryMachete, on 14 February 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Agree with kadeus. Now, I do believe forum rules and etiquette are set for a reason, but this I don't agree with.
If trip is making these roms for us, for free, with no obligation to flash, I consider that a huge favor. Some people donate, some dont, but to sit there and ask someone to give u a gift and then badger them about how they made it seems silly. On xda, the forums get cluttered with copies of roms that og devs spent lots of time on.
Why do we need trips kernel source? So someone can hack it there own personal way so it runs to their precise specifications? If u can do that, then u can prolly just as easy build your own kernel.
Maybe I'm confused about the situation, and maybe trip has acted childish, but I seriously appreciate his help in keeping my sensation better than any other phone.
So, yea, bummer he's gone. I'm sure without him this site will see a major % less use. But I do understand the pride in sticking to what you believe in.

[GaryMachete]

Whatever. I'm smoking a bowl and the man says I shouldn't do that. Free Trip!

[EddyOS]

It doesn't matter if Trip has switched the HTC kernels now, the forum still says you have to comply with the GPL so he should disclose his work on his own kernel regardless if he's using it at present or not. His kernel will still be out in public so he should have to release the code.

Failure to do so has lead to the closure of his thread. All he had to do was publish the code and this would have never happened

[awarner]

The recent topic which has now been opened again was not closed due to GPL issues.
It was closed after Trip's continued abusive rants where he abusively attacked another member and not in retaliation to an abusive post made towards him. This was after I had personally posted yet again for this to stop. The topic was then reopened after the posts and topic was checked and cleaned (yet again) so hopefully I've not missed too much out of all those pages.
I also object to off site ammunition being brought on to the site as most of the time it can be used out of context and so just feeds the fire.

Trip has been attacked and also been the attacker for a very long time and all members have been treated the same by being given a warning and temporary bans for a few days to help cool things down. While most people who receive a warning and pm have then complied to calm things, still continue to be valued and productive members on the site, Trip however read but chose to ignore almost all my messages of help over the months as I have told him that instead of troll feeding and then becoming a troll himself to report such posts and let the team deal with things. We have also been criticised by quite a few members that we have been too soft on Trip for his abusive attacks over the months.

Android unfortunately has created this ecosystem where development is far easier being open source that people are constantly complaining that someone has stolen their work. The outcome for this means that we see a lot of very childish fighting over a lot of the Android sections but with the moderators and post reporting it is normally kept to a minimum. Open source means that, its for everyone to share, work together and then evolve but some then decide they own it instead but that's another story.

[lilman215]

I just fine it disturbing that this guy vorbeth has a thread now after trip been banned ,i see why trip say vorbeth  wants to be like him.Also why did it take for vorbeth to start bi%%%ching about source for the mods to do somthing,to me all this have vorbeth name on it

[vorBeth]

lilman215, on 14 February 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

I just fine it disturbing that this guy vorbeth has a thread now after trip been banned ,i see why trip say vorbeth  wants to be like him.Also why did it take for vorbeth to start bi%%%ching about source for the mods to do somthing,to me all this have vorbeth name on it

Trip's the innocent one in this, right, ok!
FYI, I do NOT and NEVER will want to be like Trip.
ALL of my work is Open and Free for everyone to use WITHOUT needing my express permission.
Trip places copyright on work that is NOT his, The TAP'S Engine - Not HIS, but Sony Ericsson!

I apologise to those of you who felt insulted by my using the term 'fan boy', the reason for this is 'some' of you bashed me for sticking up for the community as a whole and supported Trip in stealing of others work re-branding it and calling it his own. Much like the Apple 'fan boys', He may have provided you with a Rom that no one else did, but this does NOT excuse theft of code and/or breaking of established rules.


If you read Paul's post you would see Trip is not banned, just blocked from posting until he is willing to comply with GPL rules (this is my own understanding of the situation)
The fact Trip chose to move forum's (to me) seems as though he is either unable to follow GPL as he has no sources or just think's he is above the rules everyone else has to follow.

My Topic is not a reflection of Trip leaving, the OpenSensation project was started before he left (Check Twitter) and more as a retaliation to Trip's insult towards me, claiming I can't compile **** and ONLY wish to KANG his stuff.
Well, I think by now it should be clear I can in fact compile **** and only ever wished to help Trip fix stuff.

To answer why I wanted Trips source, it was so I could try to generate the correct framebuffer headers for the qcom drivers to help with HW Acceleration.

Edited by vorBeth, 14 February 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[seadersn]

my point of view: v. provided help with a fix and t. felt offended because it's his thread and work. discussion between them exploded, but mainly because of t.'s choice of words. in addition there was this kernel gpl condition which wasn't fulfilled. all together: t.'s not in a very stable condition atm which needs a little bit thoughtfulness; and unfortunately maybe a bit (un-controlled) harsh; and pi**ed off about how it went here. so he went over to another forum. unfortunately at the time when the little war between them rose up there wasn't a mod available to control this escalated situation. as it looks he can come back and continue; but he don't want to...? don't know...
but anyway: thx for statement, paul

[PaulOBrien]

There's a major point being missed here - Trip wasn't / isn't banned!

We removed his posting rights temporarily while we spoke with him (I sent him several e-mails he's not replied to), I had spoken to him previously about GPL, so I just wanted to re-iterate and talk about conduct in general.

P

[PaulOBrien]

kadeus, on 14 February 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

Thanks for the official statement, Paul.

I do have a couple of questions (genuine, not trying to stir the pot any more). I just can't help but feel that there are more reasons than just the GPL obligations, but I might be wrong.

- I gather from your message that he had been warned about this a few times. Is that correct? If it is, wouldn't you say that his switching to the HTC kernel was at least partially correcting the wrongdoing with his previous custom kernel? I keep hearing that the problem were the kernels he released BEFORE he switched to the HTC leaked one, but yet the closing of his threads happened AFTER, which I don't understand.

- I also feel that he was probably not very welcome because of the tone of his answers, which I would totally understand, btw. But if that is the case, I think it should be made clear as well. Also, if that is indeed the case, I'd like to point out that heated arguments are usually sparked by more than one person, and I do feel that Vorbeth has strongly contributed to this. For example, as a passive reader of this forum, I have never felt insulted by Trip (although I have seen him do it to other people), but I certainly have felt offended by some of Vorbeth's comments.

That's it. I just wanted to leave my humble opinion and get clarification on those points if possible. This has been a very useful and interesting forum for me, and I'd rather stick around with the same people if everyone does their share to calm down.

See above!

I've not tried to lay the law down on trip, I know how hard it is time wise as a dev and how people are sometimes infuriating, in fact I offered to help / discuss with him both points, but he chose not to take it up.

P

[kadeus]

Thanks for explaining, awarner.

I suppose that's what I was missing. What I didn't understand was the most recent topics being closed, and since the only explanation given was the GPL violation, I didn't quite get it.

Obviously I cannot support or justify that kind of abusive behaviour, so this sounds like grounds for a ban/closure to me. It's just that everything surrounding the decision felt like there was something more personal going on, but now I understand.

awarner, on 14 February 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

The recent topic which has now been opened again was not closed due to GPL issues.
It was closed after Trip's continued abusive rants where he abusively attacked another member and not in retaliation to an abusive post made towards him. This was after I had personally posted yet again for this to stop. The topic was then reopened after the posts and topic was checked and cleaned (yet again) so hopefully I've not missed too much out of all those pages.
I also object to off site ammunition being brought on to the site as most of the time it can be used out of context and so just feeds the fire.

Trip has been attacked and also been the attacker for a very long time and all members have been treated the same by being given a warning and temporary bans for a few days to help cool things down. While most people who receive a warning and pm have then complied to calm things, still continue to be valued and productive members on the site, Trip however read but chose to ignore almost all my messages of help over the months as I have told him that instead of troll feeding and then becoming a troll himself to report such posts and let the team deal with things. We have also been criticised by quite a few members that we have been too soft on Trip for his abusive attacks over the months.

Android unfortunately has created this ecosystem where development is far easier being open source that people are constantly complaining that someone has stolen their work. The outcome for this means that we see a lot of very childish fighting over a lot of the Android sections but with the moderators and post reporting it is normally kept to a minimum. Open source means that, its for everyone to share, work together and then evolve but some then decide they own it instead but that's another story.

[kadeus]

Thanks Paul,

I realize that now. But up until you started this topic, I believe most peopel thought he was indeed banned, probably because Vorbeth had said so in a few posts.

Anyway, I appreciate the answers.

PaulOBrien, on 14 February 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

There's a major point being missed here - Trip wasn't / isn't banned!

We removed his posting rights temporarily while we spoke with him (I sent him several e-mails he's not replied to), I had spoken to him previously about GPL, so I just wanted to re-iterate and talk about conduct in general.

P

[vorBeth]

kadeus, on 14 February 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Thanks Paul,

I realize that now. But up until you started this topic, I believe most peopel thought he was indeed banned, probably because Vorbeth had said so in a few posts.

Anyway, I appreciate the answers.

I apologise if 'banned' was the wrong word, I honestly thought he was (source of confusion TripNRaVeR Twitter: https://twitter.com/...381882835271681)

[kadeus]

vorBeth, on 14 February 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I apologise to those of you who felt insulted by my using the term 'fan boy',

That is about the softest term you've used. You called them TripNWhores on Twitter.

vorBeth, on 14 February 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

the reason for this is 'some' of you bashed me for sticking up for the community as a whole and supported Trip in stealing of others work re-branding it and calling it his own.

Still don't see the reason to insult anyone. It's bad enough that you cross insults with Trip, but his supporters? Really?

vorBeth, on 14 February 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

If you read Paul's post you would see Trip is not banned, just blocked from posting until he is willing to comply with GPL rules (this is my own understanding of the situation)

Please don't be so condescending when you're the first one who has repeatedly written that Trip was banned.

vorBeth, on 14 February 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Well, I think by now it should be clear I can in fact compile **** and only ever wished to help Trip fix stuff.

And it's comments like this that make people think this was a personal vendetta. So it sounds like you clearly took offense with something Trip said to you, and you feel the need to defend yourself. Fine with me, but don't pretend to be doing everything for the interest of the community, when you quite clearly have something personal against him.

[vorBeth]

kadeus, on 14 February 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

And it's comments like this that make people think this was a personal vendetta. So it sounds like you clearly took offense with something Trip said to you, and you feel the need to defend yourself. Fine with me, but don't pretend to be doing everything for the interest of the community, when you quite clearly have something personal against him.

I've had enough of this now, I lashed out, so would you if you spent YEARS of your life doing NOTHING but develop programs and solutions for others and making 100% of them public for everyone only to be called (for want of a better term) stupid and having quite a lot of his followers take the same opinion when none of you know my history and what I have done, Yeah I took it personal.

Enough now, Trip is what he is, he is not going to change any time soon, such a shame really.

[kadeus]

Well, I suggest you do what you do for your own pleasure then, and not so one day someone will not call you stupid.

I certainly don't know your history, and don't pretend to. Neither you know mine, btw, so please don't tell me what I would or would not do if I were in the same situation.
Also note that I'm NOT defending Trip. I might have an opinion about him, but I keep it to myself. I've said above that his behavior cannot be justified.

But I'm also saying that some of your comments are uncalled for too, and you don't seem willing to accept that. Instead, you keep justifying yourself with "Trip did this" and "Trip said that".
Quite honestly, I don't care. I just call things as I see them, but try to be respectful no matter what.

vorBeth, on 14 February 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

I've had enough of this now, I lashed out, so would you if you spent YEARS of your life doing NOTHING but develop programs and solutions for others and making 100% of them public for everyone only to be called (for want of a better term) stupid and having quite a lot of his followers take the same opinion when none of you know my history and what I have done, Yeah I took it personal.

Enough now, Trip is what he is, he is not going to change any time soon, such a shame really.

[PedroVader]

I've kept an open mind throughout, and I've cringed at some of the things that were said.

Its obvious that Trip has some issues in his personal life that he can't shake off, if what he's said is to be believed, shame its soured his attitude to life and other people.

Right or wrong, what's said can't be taken back, its a shame the dev thread descended into a slanging match, but GPL is what we all have to abide by, if you can't play by the rules, eventually everyone loses out