tech support response to update issues

[Guest drblow]

I got mine yesterday!! It's worth a few laughs. About a week ago I reported the issues I was having post-update. They were -

1) SD card recognition problems

2) phone lock-ups/freezing

3) low call volume

4) cannot send email

After a week, I get the following info in a reply from tech support -

issue 1) - the SD card cannot switch itself off.

issue 2) - make sure your SPVe200 has at least 50% free memory

issue 3) - no response

issue 4) - there is a problem with the server

Now, it's not just me surely, but I could have found out what little information they gave me from reading the manual. They did not make any comments about the call volume, and the responses to the other issues are lame as hell - I mean, about the SD card, do they just think I was making it up? :evil: What kind of response is that? Just a flat out denial that it can happen, so obviously there's nothing wrong with the phone, it's just that I am insane! :x

They apparently also recommend pulling the battery off when the phone locks up. I asked the CS guy were they aware that when an SPV is low on battery it warns the user to switch off before the battery runs out as a sudden power loss can cause data to be lost. Obviously CS guy didn't know what I was on about, and the irony of being told by the provider company to do something which it is recommended that you DO NOT do, was lost on him. :?

I told CS to email tech support back again, to express my disatisfaction at the pathetic attempt they made at a response, and to try to get some actual help from them about how I can address these issues. Obviously I'm expecting an eventual replacement offer, which I'm not going to accept, coz I would still rather have these problems than the buzzing speaker back.

Technical support? It is neither 'technical' or indeed 'support'. It's just a big joke, thats what it is. Except it's not really very funny, is it? :D

[Guest cybercamel]

I was going to ring CS with my problem, but it really doesn't seem worth it. :D

I have to admit that I've only had one real problem since the update and thats with the phone locking up! It only happens when the keypad lock is on and I have to remove the battery to get it going again. This has happened about 7 times now and is becoming annoying. The bizarre thing is that when I turn it on the radio is switched off, and when I turn that on, bluetooth is switched on as well.

So when I read emails about the lack of a decent response from Tech support I do wonder if its worth the hassle, but I'll give it a go and see what happens ;)

My phone was relatively ok before the update as well, no buzzing etc. I should have left well alone, haven't even noticed any improved battery life.

[Guest drblow]

So when I read emails about the lack of a decent response from Tech support I do wonder if its worth the hassle, but I'll give it a go and see what happens  :D

Don't bother m8, it really isn't worth it. Unless, like me, all you want to do is notch up such a catalogue of problems in the Orange database, that when the new smartphones are released, a free upgrade should be forthcoming!! :twisted:

[Guest 8ball]

If you are such an expert DrBlow why not stop bothering Orange CS and fix it yourself.......

[Guest drblow]

excuse me?? what sort of comment was that?

if that is the height of your contribution to this discussion, why dont you stop bothering us? i suppose you work for orange cs then? & if not, with your clearly very low level of thought, you'd be perfect for the job.

Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest 8ball]

sorry, my messages may seem sarcastic but i used to work for orange cs and know how difficult it is to diagnose faults over the phone. also cs are not experts in everything about the phone, no one can be. i just resent hearing moaning posts blaming everything on a group of orange employees who have a very hard job. this forum is about identifying issues and using our collective knowledge to resolve them, not a site to vent frustrations and just slag off people or a network. such action will just affect the professional credibility of the site. and i am not just some dumb ex csr, i actually have a lot of professional ms smartphone experience as part of my job.

[Guest 8ball]

duplicate entry deleted

[Guest drblow]

i suppose you work for orange cs then?

i used to work for orange cs

:D Sorry m8 - but you gotta laugh, eh?? ;)

Your post wasn't sarcastic, just dumb! At no point did I claim to be 'an expert', and I wasn't trying to come across as if I knew something everybody else doesn't. Thats the whole point - tech support gave me info after waiting a week, that anyone can read for themselves in the user manual. I'd hardly say that complaining about that was over the top (especially not for me!! Have you seen some of my other posts?? :P )

I think it is indicative of the attitude of some Orange staff that you see my comments as me 'bothering' Orange. I hardly think phoning tech support & then complaining about their performance is 'bothering' the company which I pay good money to every month for network service.

If you read the history of the e200 problems then maybe you will understand. If you actually do have alot of smartphone experience as you say, then you will be familiar with the myriad of problems people have (or did you get one of those 'staff only' smartphones form Orange that work flawlessly? :D ).

But if someone who used to work for Orange CS shows that kind of approach to complaints, then maybe that explains why sometimes the service isn't up to much.

And another thing ... ( :D ) , this forum is for the exchange of information between smartphone enthusiasts - I was just sharing some info with my fellow modaco-ists, for their general knowledge & entertainment (which, lets face it, Orange ARE good value for!! :D ).

Other than that, I refuse to be drawn into a protracted argument about it!! :lol:

[Guest MonkeyJug]

maybe the manner in which you speak to the cs rep when you make your initial phone call to orange makes all the difference.

i ran the update, discovered that my video playback had the hissing sound problem, rang orange and told them about it. without whingeing or complaining or indeed, without even asking for a replacement, 25 hours later, i had a brand new e200 delivered straight to my front door...

the moral? being ignorant, obnoxious and demanding (probably) isn't going to get you anywhere when you're ringing 150...

Posted from my brand spanking new replacement SmartPhone! :D

[Guest MonkeyJug]

edit: double post

[Guest crimminsky]

Absolutely disgusting language on here, Monkeyjug. NO NEED!

[Guest drblow]

Definately no need for profanity! & considering I have had 6 replacement e200's from Orange so far, comments are pretty far off the mark too!

[Guest MonkeyJug]

i apologise for the use of the swear word in my last post, which i've now amended. if i caused anyone any offence, i'm sorry. it's not a word i would use in conversation in real life and there was no reason why i should have used it in the context above.

but in life, nothing's perfect - whether it be orange customer care or your brand new smartphone. people usually try their best, but sometimes they make mistakes...

the e200 is on the cutting edge - of course there will be blips and the occasional blunder but you just gotta accept it - what else can you do? remember, nobody forced you to buy your e200, blah, blah, blah...

[Guest drblow]

the e200 is on the cutting edge - of course there will be blips and the occasional blunder but you just gotta accept it - what else can you do? remember, nobody forced you to buy your e200, blah, blah, blah...

m8! I'm not really trying to exacerbate the argument here (moi? :shock: ) but I think thats wrong. I've been using SPV's since their introduction in Nov 2002, & the general feeling among users is that the problems we are having are not just blips or blunders, they are fundamental issues that prevent people from using the phone 'as advertised' (re. the buzzing speaker issue/bluetooth). Have a look at this thread http://www.modaco.com/viewtopic.php?t=106515 & you'll get more of an idea about how many people feel this way.

The e200 is a cutting edge bit of kit - but it had a cutting edge price tag when we got them at first, & I for one am not prepared to pay a considerable amount of cash for a rpoduct, which has a support network in place, and then simply 'accept' any major problems I have with it.

Remember, we're not talking about people phoning CS coz they can't figure out how to configure their emails, or can't set a ringtone or whatever ... we're talking about advertised features (bluetooth, battery life etc) which fall well short of the expected performance. You may well be prepared to simply accept these issues as being OK, but there's a lot of people who don't.

For what it's worth, like I said earlier I've had 6 replacements for my e200. All due to the buzzing speaker. I reported the first one within an hour of recieving it, and it was diagnosed by the Orange systemas faulty & I got a replacement. I then reported every other one as faulty within an hour of recieving them. On the 2nd, Orange told me that as it was the same fault, before they could offer me a replacement, they had to refer the problem to tech support. After 2 weeks, tech support came back and said to replace it. This pattern repeated for every one. With this in consideration, Orange still refuse to simply cancel my contract & give me my money back, as I have gone beyond the '14 day' period. I have argued with them that as each phone has been reported as faulty within an hour of reciept, & it is by their policy that I wait for tech support, how can I be considered to be over the 14 day period - it's not my choice to keep the phone for 14 days, its because by their policy, I have to wait for a tech support response. Needless to say, because Orange have your signature on the contract before you even see the product, they simply refuse to accept this. As the current DMR models are considerably downgraded from an e200, then I really have no choice except to keep it.

I know from experience that it is very difficult to cancel a contract without the approval of the company - if the bill remains unpaid for 3 months they send it to a debt collection company regardless of circumstances. Whether or not you can resolve the issue with the debt company (which is very doubtful, as once it's passed to them it is considered to be irrefutable), there is still a black mark against your credit rating.

If you are personally happy to accept any problems you may have with your e200, then more power to ye ( :wink: ) - but I'm more inclined to kick up a bit of fuss! If you read some of my other posts regarding thiese issues, you'll see that I have used the situation quite to my advantage with Orange - as far as getting credits back to my account & replacements. All of which has been achieved by (like you & others have said) being polite but firm with CS staff. I've made several references in previous posts to the fact that when some people do get on the phone with CS & start shouting & swearing & stuff, they do themselves no favours at all in progressing their case. During 2002/2003 I got 2 replacement SPV's, a free upgrade from SPV to e100. another replacement e100, and about £150 in gratuity credits to my account - this year I'm on 6 replacement e200's & counting. Now, you just don't get that kind of response without knowing how to play the game, eh?? :wink:

Which is also why on several occassions in the past I have been very supportive of actual Orange CS staff & policies. On most occassions I find them to be as helpful as they can be, and I have said that on this forum before. Don't forget, the topic on this thread is tech support, not CS. They are 2 very distinct & seperate entities within Orange, and you'll probably find most CS staff think of tech support what the rest of us do.

But just because I find CS to be helpful on most occassions, doesn't mean that when they are not helpful (or in this case when tech support are not helpful) that I'm just going to accept that! Especially not when you consider the amount of money I spend on the contract each month & the benefits I have gotten previously from making a reasonable & polite case with CS about it - know what I mean?? :wink:

[Guest Maverick]

What we need right now ...is competition. Just imagine the situation, if a couple of other networks introduce MS Smartphones. Then the network CS offered would automatically improve.

[Guest shardy]

I think that a major hindrance for Orange is that these post-update issues are not universal. For instance, I've not had a single lockup since updating, and I've never lost access to the SD card. The only issue I do have is the poor sound quality on video, which the guys at IA Style say is being worked on. I have noticed that the battery life is a far lower with my Sandisk 256Mb SD than with the Orange 8Mb SD. This probably indicates an issue with different SD cards rather than the phone, and may prove more difficult to fix.

If everyone was getting the same problems it may be easier to sort out, but if you look at the polls, there are just as many people who are very happy with the update as are not! Only the people having problems are vocal in their posts though.

Could there not be other causes for the problems, such as software installed? For instance, I'm still using an early beta of Smart Explorer, and have no problems with losing access to the SD card. Could there be problems with the later versions that are causing the problem? I have no evidence for this, and it may be wrong, but I'm just trying to think of reasons why not everyone would be having the same issues. (I'm not accusing Binarys of releasing software that doesn't work, I just picked a random example!).

Anyway, it's the end of the day and I'm not being very coherent, I think it's time I left work!

Sam

[Guest drblow]

I agree with you to an extent Sam - but I don't hold out any hope of there being any more updates to the e200, or of Orange coming up with fixes. As you say, there are as many people here happy with the update as not. That to me obvioulsy (as one of the not so happy updaters) is totally unacceptable. If only half your customers are happy with something, then obviously its no good - if the objective is actually for ALL the customers to be happy!? :?

But in the grand scheme of things, a few people giving off about it on this forum isn;t really going to achieve anything, except to allow us to let off steam with some like minds!! :D Something which I, for one, am truly grateful!! :twisted:

[Guest shardy]

Just for interest's sake, I had a call this morning from Orange Correspondence Dept, concerning two letters I wrote about poor treatment and advice from their staff, and the e200 problems. The person that called was very helpful and has credited my accout for the cost of all my GPRS useage in March as well as one months free line rental. It doesn't help those that still have problems with the e200, but it shows that Orange are willing to give some compensation at least, and are willing to accept some fault.

As a piece of advice from me, I got much further complaining in writing to Orange than over the phone, so maybe a few more people should give it a go.

Sam

[Guest drblow]

After about 3 weeks, I had another response from tech support - basically again saying that they didn't have a clue how to fix any of the post update issues. After a good few CS staff, coaches & supervisors, I was eventually told that someone would contact the wire-free data support team - who apprently have more in depth knowledge of smartphones!? :shock:

They got back to me yesterday & suggested that I re-install the update. Cynical as I may be, I still figured I'd give it a go! :D

Took 3 attempts at getting the update to go on, with a few anxious moments looking at a crashed PC, & e200 on canary screen!! But it worked in the end. Before applying the update again, I hard reset the phone, charged it fully, & made sure the volume was set to maximum. Whoever suggested that setting the volume to max before doing the update would increase the volume post update was talking arse!! Suprise, suprise! :roll:

Too early to tell yet about battery life & SD card recognition. I have done quite a bit of homescreen changing which usually results in a lock up for me, but haven't had any yet!! But it's early days. If I get any suprising results I'll post 'em. :wink:

[Guest drblow]

well, the SD card has already started to fail, & battery life is just the same - so, for me, that really proves that all the stuff about charging before updating & turning up the volume was all nonsense, & the update itself is inherently flawed. Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest drblow]

More brilliant nonsense from O this morning! A supervisor from CS called me back today (only 2 days late, which is good for them), and told me that he had spoken to tech support about the SD card problem & the phone locking up, and said that they told him that this is actually a safety feature of the phone, to conserve battery power!!!!!!!!!!! :D ;) :lol:

So, brilliant news, eh? Our phones aren't faulty post-update, this is actually a new feature!! :P

Where is that Mr. Orange fella til I congratulate him on his company's great work & technical expertise?? :evil:

[Guest serialkillazzs]

use are all lucky to even have a phone that works reasonably well at least u's can recieve an MMS, try it with an o2 pay and go sim that doesn't. kinda defeats the purpose of a camera phone and yous are all griping about email configurations. set it up without orange, o2 EMAIL works fine.

[Guest drblow]

so, replacement no. 7 arriving tomorrow. hopefully it'll have the original rom, so its goodbye lock ups & storage card problems, hello buzzing speaker! Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest 8ball]

you have to remember that you are speaking to a helpdesk. helpdesk staff do not look at helpdesk as a career. how many of you could live happily on helpdesk wages? you are not speaking to experts, just people who have some experience with spv's (usually a lot less than you guys).

If you want something sorting, I suggest you speak to the source, The Big M supply the software for the device, HTC make it, they will know 100 per cent more than the network carrier employees (Orange).

[Guest drblow]

Have you ever tried to speak to "the source" as you put it? I have. I got a number for the MS London office from OCS one day. I phoned them, & they semed quite annoyed that Orange staff were handing out their number for Orange phone support issues, and told me in no uncertain terms that they did NOT offer support for Orange phone customers - so thats a nonstarter. I know a few people who have spoken to HTC, but it's been about handset repairs, not support issues.

Realistically, the source is Orange. It's an Orange branded phone, sold as an Orange product. If you buy software from Handango, the device manufacturer categories includes 'Orange' for the SPV range. Orange is more than the network carrier for the SPV - it's the companys flagship phone, and it is very much marketed as an Orange product. Also, bear in mind that this thread is related to the recent update, which was produced solely by Orange.

It's only whenever things go wrong that can't be fixed, that anyone mentions contacting anyone else - and it;'s a pretty lame excuse for not being able tio help the customer. Fact is, the default contacts list on the phone contains a number for Orange support, not MS or HTC. The customer should not be expected to have to contact 2 or 3 companies to have to resolve an issue, in the same way that if you bought a toaster from a high street store which developed a fault, you would not expect them to say that you needed to contact the company who made the heating filaments, or the company that supplied them with the electronic parts, especially when the product is still covered by warranty - get what I mean?

I think part of the problem is that people sometimes do expect helpdesk staff to be experts, which you quite rightly point out, that they are not. But that doesn't relieve them of any responsibility for not being able to satisfactorily resolve a problem with an Orange phone. If helpdesk staff can't help - then there should be an aparatus in place which allows them to forward issues to another dept that can continue where they have left off - and I don't mean tech support, I mean people you can talk to. Most of my time spent with tech support has been waiting for 2 weeks for a message to come back with a question about the issue - which is stupid, making me wait 2 weeks just to come back & ask a question, then wait another 2 weeks for a "we can't fix it" type response. I'm not blaming helpdesk staff, it's not their fault Orange's support is pants. But at the end of the day, I am a customer who bought an Orange phone, from Orange, and they cannot fix the numerous problems I have with the phone (many of which prevent me from using it day to day). I don't want to be told I have to go contacting 2 or 3 other companies. If other companies need to be contacted, then Orange should do that in their efforts to resolve issues with handsets - but they clearly don't do that. IT would appear that Orange make no effort whatsoever to resolve issues with the SPV range. Or when they do make some kind of effort, the result is so poorly tested, that it contains more bugs than the original.