Megadrive Emulator READ 1st POST

[Guest awarner [MVP]]

LOL - this forum is bonkers!

Why? because we do not believe in encouraging piracy and warez?

it's the law that is "bonkers" allowing emulators is legal but

downloading game roms are ilegal.

[Guest Stomski]

bonkers

I don't think he means the forum and its rules, just the people that post here :)

[Guest awarner [MVP]]

comes with the territory :)/

[Guest fdave2]

deleted

[Guest fdave2]

Why? because we do not believe in encouraging piracy and warez?

it's the law that is "bonkers" allowing emulators is legal but

downloading game roms are ilegal.

I didn't say encouraging piracay was bonkers, I just think it's bonkers that I'm allowed to say that Megadrive emulators in general [edited by midnight], but I'm not allowed to say the words [edited by midnight]?

That's fairly bonkers! It makes bug reports on the forum somewhat interesting... e.g. the sprites are missing from the game where you slide across the tarmac on your ass.

[Guest pwest13]

sorry for the cheap crap post but i want in on this conv so...

Lol @ fdave2

[Guest maxh2003]

I was going to stay out of the whole MoDaCo/ROMs/legality issue, but what the hell :-D

we do not believe in encouraging piracy and warez?

- and rightly so. I'm guessing a lot of us here work in the IT industry and expect to be rewarded for our efforts. But let us not forget that it's all about where each individual draws the line. Take SPVman, for instance. It's a superb-quality, utterly-accurate, unlicensed port of Pacman.

shhhhh, yeh, but muff has always said he will delete them if they object. it is a risk, and again, different if you make them for free or make them commercial (kind of, both are kind of dodgy, but if you profit from another companies game they are obviously gonna be more upset)

- I agree entirely with Midnight's comment, but this is a moral judgement, not a legal judgement. Legally, SPVMan is OBVIOUSLY ILLEGAL! - and moreover, everyone who put it on their phone partook in copyright infringement, probably knowingly. But, did anyone here not install SPVMan? Who felt bad about depriving Namco? That's what I thought. And there are doubtless plenty of other examples of facilitating potential copyright infringement on MoDaCo; for instance (and without prejudice to the developer) were the TV listings in that app correctly licensed? If not... copyright infringement. Again.

I suggest that we all infringe copyright from time to time, and we each have our own moral basis for deciding what is, and isn't acceptable. Of course, this site belongs to Paul, so it's his moral judgement that's relevant.

Now, it seems to me that what really upset the mods was the long lists people were posting about games that did, or did not, work. In practice that meant people were trading ROM lists, which made it easy to PM people and ask for ROMs.

Could I therefore suggest to the mods that we be allowed to discuss a single ROM in a single post? Something like this:

[edited by midnight]still doesn't work - the team selection screen fades to black, and stays that way.

This removes the possibility of big lists of ROMs being hawked around, and the subsequent PMs that follow, but allows myself and Dave to work on PicoDrive more effectively, as well as allowing the kind of discussions between users that have made MoDaCo so great. Seems a fair compromise to me. Paul, or mods, care to comment?

What the hell is this thread for?

I guess we're about to find out! If we can discuss single ROMs as suggested above, then there is a point to it. If we can't then it's will increasingly be about nothing more than the UI I've wrapped round the outside of PicoDrive. That means that in order to discuss which games are emulated and to what quality, people will have to go to the Symbian forums (linked to from Dave's page) to discuss! Now there's an irony if ever I saw one...

[Guest fdave2]

Don't forget the version of Doom for SPV. I've seen discussion of it running D**m 2!

Now last time I checked, D**m 2 was (GASP) a copyrighted game, wasn't it? Surely we should go through all the forums and censor all bug reports on levels and textures which did not appear in the original shareware installment of D**m 1...? After all that is encouraging piracy by your logic.

Am I allowed to say D**m 1 by the way? I mean that's a greay legal issue there - I can say Shareware Doom, but can I talk about playing the full version of D**m 1?

LOL!

Seriously though, to stop being facitious, yeah I can sort of see his point - I think we are going to have to live with this slightly weird rule on these boards!

The only thing I would say is, if you want to discuss it properly without weird censoring head over to the Symbian or Pocket PC boards:

http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15394

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum/showt...ead.php?t=23356

http://www.ngage-emu.tk/

[Guest maxh2003]

if you want to discuss it properly without weird censoring head over to the Symbian or Pocket PC boards

...but don't forget that using a Symbian or PocketPC board to discuss *smartphone* aspects of PicoDrive, such as the UI, will get right on people's nerves and probably start some sort of unholy MS/Nokia fan war...!

Hopefully we can agree a compromise which allows people to draw that line in the sand as they see fit but doesn't actively encourage piracy, because that's surely the only viable way to run a forum. I suggest this can best be accomplished by allowing the single-ROM-per-post suggestion - it's easily monitored and abided to. I think it also follows the balance that MoDaCo has always tried to set - for instance SPVMan and ringtones are allowed on this forum because a moral decision has been made that this kind of "copyright infringement" is tolerable. I reckon that's a fair, equitable and sensible decision by Paul and the mods, and I hope it can be extended to this thread too.

[Guest unclelimey]

i totally agree with you max.. i think its ok to talk about a rom.. just so you and dave can get some feedback and make them work.

Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest kopkings]

exactly piracy technically is a bad thing, people buy cheap copies which effecctively wreaks programmers hard work, If I was a programmer and I found out that people were distributing copies of my work id be pissed off. I refer to the rom Im after as a ceratin viking game a game which i played when i was like 6 years old and enjoyed so seeing it now even makes me want to play it.. Yes I make ringtones from songs look on coolsmartphone.com ive done a couple and have over 300 music videos on my hard drive and over 100 music videos on my fone, hell I even have the the whole film of pulp fiction on my phone, is that illegal I own the orignal film, used easy vcd and tempenc and did it myself. I wish that companies distribute films as mpegs so people could buy them and have them on their pcs or phones, but will piracy ever end i doubt it. If some companies expanded their somewere to every platform all these porting issues would be avoided.

[Guest kingdom master]

its not illegal to discuss roms its not even illegal to use, however if the industry decides to pick on users to prove they own the original roms then the user has a problem. the easiest way to stop any legal repocussions on this forum would be a disclaimer that loads when visiting the forum, or just the gaming forum.

we all break the law day by day when using our smartphone software so roms are a small part of it.

speaking of which please can you work on [edited by midnight] pweaaaaaaasee

[Guest maxh2003]

We badly need input from Paul and the mods here.

I wish that companies distribute films as mpegs so people could buy them and have them on their pcs or phones, but will piracy ever end i doubt it.

Quite; if Namco et al saw fit to release their ROMs at £2 a go (for instance) then they could make some money out of this whole thing, and we could all talk about them just like any other retailed game. By not doing so, they cost themselves a revenue stream. More than that, they make criminals of a whole bunch of people who would rather pay and be legal. That doesn't affect the legal argument in the slightest, but it certainly affects the moral argument - for me, at least.

Obviously, piracy will never be wiped out; there will always be people willing to steal anything and everything, regardless of availability at a fair price. What's important is that we are sensible and rational about such a situation, taking care not to actively facilitate wholesale piracy for the few but without impinging upon the largely-law-abiding and morally-decent many. How many people here have used NEVER used their CD-R drive for something that's at least technically illegal? That's a sticky path to go down.

i totally agree with you max.. i think its ok to talk about a rom.. just so you and dave can get some feedback and make them work.

... but sadly it's not our views that count. Mods?

its not even illegal to use (ROMs)

Debatable; my understanding is that in the UK it probably is illegal. But then in the UK it'd be illegal to show your VHS copy of last week's Have I Got News For You to more than four people, IIRC, or to re-encode an episode of The Simpsons so it plays under BetaPlayer. Would such an admission get your post deleted from MoDaCo? Probably not. Posting the file itself, or putting up links to it, would probably get you a warning or ban though. Can we not apply the same here - removing posts that contain or link to ROMs, or contain multiple ROM names and therefore look like a trading list?

industry decides to pick on users to prove they own the original roms

Don't think it works like that - in the UK at least - because it's a reversal of the burden of proof; instead, the company would have to prove you were using the ROM (maybe with reference to forum posts or screenshots). But, IANAL.

[Guest Stomski]

Look... It's obvious to me that the rules are in place for a reason and a line has to be drawn somewhere. There are loads of sites that have had problems because of rom sharing activities.

Why do specific game bug reports have to be made through this forum? Couldn't fdave open a free email account or something?

[Guest maxh2003]

Look... It's obvious to me that the rules are in place for a reason and a line has to be drawn somewhere.

Hopefully that would be obvious to any reader. I (and some others) respectfully disagree with where that line has been drawn. That doesn't question Paul's right to draw the line or his right to choose where to draw it in the slightest. I note that some posts which refer to only a single ROM have not been deleted/edited by the mods. This implies that it may be OK to discuss single ROMs, which is why I'm asking for specific clarification on that point. If the considered reply from the mods (or, ideally, Paul) is "tough luck - no mentioning ROM names on this site, under any circumstances, full stop", then so be it. I simply suggest that the state-of-play at the moment suggests there might be room for a compromise, that's all.

There are loads of sites that have had problems because of rom sharing activities.

Indeed, and no-one is suggesting that's a good thing. But it can't be prevented entirely. You could PM anyone who posted in this thread on the off-chance that they have the ROM you want. You could even PM a random Smartphone user, on the off-chance that they *do* use PicoDrive, and *do* have the ROM you want. The best way of ensuring no-one used this site to spread illegal warez, would be to shut it down. None of us want that but it's a valid pitch for preventing piracy. If I put you in touch with a Smartphone user, it makes it easier for you to steal Eclipse - First Wave. If I put you in touch with an Eclipse user, then it makes it *even easier* for you to steal Eclipse. Back to the same point - we have to (or, more accurately, Paul has to) draw the line somewhere. Could it not be drawn between long lists of ROMs, and bug reports which relate to a single ROM?

Why do specific game bug reports have to be made through this forum? Couldn't fdave open a free email account or something?

Because the bug reports can then be read and discussed by all. That's the beauty of a forum. You might as well ask why we don't replace the entire forum with a free email account for Paul.

[Guest maxh2003]

Thanks to unclelimey for the test post!

I suggest we all - me especially - now STFU on this issue and wait for a response from Paul. No point in repeatedly discussing the same points, especially when we're all in broad agreement - what we need is a resolution, whatever it turns out to be.

Meanwhile... sorry that the version with popups hasn't made it to a full, popup-free release on my website yet. I'll try and sort that out tonight (but no promises, muzzio!! :-D )

[Guest deagle]

In China,there's a famous old saying--even if you can prevent flood,you cannot stop people's mouths.Hopefully paul or mods can stand up,clarifying or giving permission.

Indeed,as I am offline,I have received some PMs require links and software with copyright.

maxh2003,you good guy!!!

[Guest fdave2]

...but don't forget that using a Symbian or PocketPC board to discuss *smartphone* aspects of PicoDrive, such as the UI, will get right on people's nerves and probably start some sort of unholy MS/Nokia fan war...!

Hopefully we can agree a compromise which allows people to draw that line in the sand as they see fit but doesn't actively encourage piracy, because that's surely the only viable way to run a forum. I suggest this can best be accomplished by allowing the single-ROM-per-post suggestion - it's easily monitored and abided to. I think it also follows the balance that MoDaCo has always tried to set - for instance SPVMan and ringtones are allowed on this forum because a moral decision has been made that this kind of "copyright infringement" is tolerable. I reckon that's a fair, equitable and sensible decision by Paul and the mods, and I hope it can be extended to this thread too.

Sounds like a good compromise to me. I can only tackle one or two at a time anyway :)

[Guest unclelimey]

ah.

but my post was removed

Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest unclelimey]

perhaps if i call it (removed by Midnight)

all the other posts with names not fully revealed seem to have been accepted

anyway, i still cant get to the second race

Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest fdave2]

Look... It's obvious to me that the rules are in place for a reason and a line has to be drawn somewhere.  There are loads of sites that have had problems because of rom sharing activities.

Why do specific game bug reports have to be made through this forum? Couldn't fdave open a free email account or something?

I do have e-mail you realise... why people keep PMing me I don't know :)

[Guest maxh2003]

ah.  

but my post was removed

Indeed it was. I presume that awarner has removed it, being as he is the only mod online at the moment?

I assume that the mod in question is quite rightly following the instructions as best they can under the circumstances, and I respect their doing so. In the absence of any new instruction from Paul, it would be quite correct modding behaviour. Strange that they would do so without comment, I suppose, but I don't suppose any mod would want to pre-empt Paul's views.

Once Paul has issued the definitive statement (presumably either:

a) No mentioning any ROMs under any circumstances, or

:lol: You may mention one ROM per post, for bug-tracking purposes only) then we can all get back to our lives!

perhaps if i call it...

Point taken, unclelimey; I've made a note of it. I think our case is more-than-adequately made now, and Paul (and the mods) deserve a chance to respond. If they decide that no ROM references are allowed at all, then I can't believe that obfuscating the ROM name is going to be acceptable. Anyone for a game of [edited by midnight] ?! :) :lol:

[Guest muzzio_giovanni]

ok man,i try my rom and all work so listen to me : is possible have multi save for different rom? at the moment i can have only a single save file in this way every time i lose the saved position for different roms,is possible do this?

[Guest fdave2]

I do have e-mail you realise... why people keep PMing me I don't know :)

It could be that this site is new to this kind of thing, never having dealt with emulators before.

The rule www.retrogames.com and www.mame.net go by, I believe, is everything goes except trolling and rom links.

Saying which games work, is as far as I can tell, no going to get your site shut down. That's why I thought it was strange. IANAL though.

[Guest fdave2]

Yikes.........

Um, please tell me you deleted that post yourself....

Right? Otherwise I'm quite worried.