Use of Infra Red port in TV/VCR Remote Control???

[Guest loquerion]

I was thinking of developing an App for this purpose... probably for the SPV E200 as its what ive got atm...

does anyone have any idea where i would get info on programming for the Infra Red Port of this device?

I already have all the frequencies and data patterns for nearly all makes of AV devices IR control... just need to know how to spit those paterns out the port of the SPV E200...

Thx

[Guest SystemicAnomaly]

Can't be done i'm afraid! Just search this forum for "infra red" to see. So many have tried and given up(failed). I'm quite happy tho, there's nothing like the feeling of the power you get lining up all those remotes, cordless phones, and mobiles :wink:

[Guest pisquee]

Well, as far as I know lots of people have said it can't be done, but I cannot remember anyone saying that they had actually tried it (and then failed.)

[Guest loquerion]

i have looked at all the topics i can find, but i get the impression that there were not a lot of hardware / software engineers actually posting in there...

everything seems to be in terms of "but this program does it?", "it doesnt support that protocol...", "but it must be possible because X does it..." etc...

if you go down to a low enough hardware level... the IR transmitter is just an LED which you can turn on or off via switching the correct bit in memory... thats it...

thats assuming that that the IR Port is memory mapped of course... but even if its not... you still dont need to use the existing inbuilt modules for dealing with the IR port... you just need to write your own (which means prolly assembler, and not this nice fluffy pillow .net effort ;-) )

what i really need is more information on the gubbins of the SPV E200... i.e. memory maps, instruction set, hardware map etc...

[Guest SystemicAnomaly]

well it sounds like you know your stuff so good luck to you!

[Guest loquerion]

primarily my background is in hardware / software interprogramming, but my degres is in electrical and electronic engineering... hopefully styarting a PHD in wirteless networking for G4 soon as well...

but basically i like playing with things... i blame MacGuyver to be honest... he never touched a gun until he got to be in stargate... i reckon its just because he never had the "right" gun before... but i digress...

i basically like making stuff... and the remote control intrigues me... cause i have 9 and woudl like to have them all integrated onto my phone...

if anyones interested for a giggle i can send a pic of my bluetooth toaster effort... (I s*** you not)... :D

you can get these cool little OEM units... they are basically a rack of 8 switches controlled over bluetooth... theres other gubbins on them for num keypads, serial RS232, RJ11/45 (i think???) and LCD 4 line displays... i think they are designed for security systems and the like, but that doesnt stop the soldering of a 12VDC switched 240VAC relay onto them and plugging it into the toaster...

having said that... i wonder how long it will be before someone hacks my toaster and is able to steal my hot buttered toasted scones.........

[Guest pisquee]

As you can see from the amount of threads on this topic there is a lot of interest in making an MS smartphone able to do this, though I would asume that each of the devices may be different.

If you could do this, even if just for one model, you'd be a hero, and could make some nice money out of it - even if only charging a couple of quid - there is certainly a demand for this product, and the person who supplies to this demand will be rich!

[Guest loquerion]

lol...

$$$$$$$$$$$ MMMUUUUUWWUWUWUWAAHAHAHAHA!!!!

oops... im from the uk... i meant:

££££££££££ MMMUUUUUWUWWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!

(i know tony blair wants to be a part of europe...... so i could be changing it again to "euros..... MMMUUUWWWAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!")

nah, seriously though... im an open source kinda guy... if i do it it'll be as it should be... free to all... unless people want to give me lots of money, in which case........

££££££££££ MMMUUUWWWAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!

but anyway... i will still need some hardware info, obviously ill be digging too... but im finnishing a proximity card reader atm... if anyone knows what i was asking for actually meant, then you will know what i need without anymore info :D

[Guest pisquee]

Yeah, i was exaggerating, but even if you charge a little bit, upto a fiver, then this may not make you a milionaire, but will at least attach some value to the time and work that went into producing the app.

[Guest roozbeh]

you very main problem is what you wanted....information...

there is no information!!!

it is problem.....

i have had the same problem for something else in these smartphones and i come to this point that (at least in internet)nobody know this....

and i myself accidentialy found it....

you problem is same....there is no technical articles that describe how these things work...how you have to set bits and....

the very same problem with recording voices on phone....there is no answering machine too...becouse nobody know how to capture that dll which send packets to speaker....

you see.....lack of information everywhere!!

[Guest loquerion]

hhhmmm... a conspiracy of silence...

somebody always knows... its just a matter of asking the right questions...

[Guest Richie M]

my initial reaction to this was ugh not another thread :D but at least this seems to be going in a different direction ;)

Ok, just to clear up on the matter of IR and TV Remote apps - the historic reason we have always said no it cant be done is because HTC (manufacture of SPV/E100/E200) said that it wasn't possible with the hardware they implemented! now having said that since we were told this obviously new hardware has come onto the market and afaik no-one has bothered to investigate as to wether its possible with either the Mio's or Moto.

[Guest loquerion]

i dont believe them... what they mean is we wont tell you how to do it in case you find a way to exploit the hardware we made... its a very different thing...

if you are able to send data over the IR port, then you can send anything...

unless the communications are implemeneted in hardware, but thats not possible since the software updates for the SPV have modified the IR comms a number of times...

[Guest londonlad]

from my experience, the e200 can only connect to the computer through infra red within say, 1m. Personally, i could still make use of a 1m remote in my spv, but Loq, do you think it'll be possible to extend the range too?

[Guest Jon_]

I remember when everyone said it was impossible to use the psion 3c/5 and yet someone managed to do so - http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lak...47/infrared.htm

[Guest loquerion]

i reckon the range thing may well be a bit of a red herring... although IR comms may be only effective over 1m ranges... it doesnt mean that the IR doesnt travel further...

the data rate for file transferes is FAR higher, than the signals used to remote control a TV / VCR... a lower data rate, such as that used in Remote controls, allows the IR diode to oscillate at a slower rate, and thus emmit stronger bursts of IR... stronger bursts have a longer range...

although in honesty, i just checked and the range of the IR signals used in file transferes are actually longer than 1m... the problem is that the recieving device is usually unable to actually pick the data out of the signal once it has been travelled that far... due to signal loss (specifically diffraction on passing through the air)...

but remote controlling a TV doesnt require the signal to be as strong or as intact...

i read the thoughts of "can you not just get a stronger IR diode? i got one from maplin... that should work???? right?"... nope... wrong...

different IR diodes emmit different ammounts of IR at various power levels...

the diode prolly isnt turned "On and Off" so to speak, to send '1's and '0's... it is prolly oscillated from a low voltage '0', to a high one '1'... the reasons from this are because of nonlinearities in the voltage / IR curve... the problem arises that if you change the Diode to a more powerful one, you will probably have to change the rest of the support components because the power / voltage curve of the new diode will be different... add to that the fact that the new diode will draw more current and may burn out other components in the phone...

i.e. change the diode and you will stop other devices from being able to pick up anything from your phone... and maybe break your phone completely...

but to recap... the range of the remote will be longer than the range of the file transferes... without modifications of the phone... im pretty sure...

[Guest Maverick]

Have a look at this... http://www.codeproject.com/ce/tvremote.asp

Though its for pocket PC.. it could give you some clues about how to manipulate the data over IR to get the right signal out.

[Guest nedge2k]

Well good luck to you mate. I looked into this a while back and came to the conclusion the low level coding was the only way...at which point I promptly gave up :D

I suggest you PM Modaco member Florin_M. If anyone will have the answer to your questions it will be him....the guy knows his stuff ;)

P.s. You'll need to have posted over 10 items before you can PM. Another three and you're there :lol:

[Guest ultimasnake]

I would think that if a Neukia can communicate with an SPV through IR and also Palm's with an SPV that this means they all use the same "technique" ofcourse , and that there is no diffrence in the actual IR hardware, but both Neukia's and Palms have software that can manipulate remote controlls.

[Guest MECX]

Ive been working on this for my university dissertation project for nearly a year.

The method im using is to make a plug on module for the serial port of the phone.

Hardware is designed and a program to output data to the serial port, also ive got a GUI for the remote its self and a program to get TV listings as a weekly update.

it just needs putting together, ive got exams at the minute so wont be able to do anything till the summer.

I researched alot about using the internal IR, it would be possible if someone could write assembler code to bypass the current IR software and some of the hardware that is screwing everything up. This however would take an absolute AGE without help from the HTC guys, and they dont want to help.

id be willing to colaberate with you on this project if you are really serious .

all my programming is done in C# .

[Guest loquerion]

right... i was wondering about the PM thing... better put the trolling gloves on...

ultimasnake... just because the palm and other devices can communicate via IR doesnt mean anything about the hardware they use to do it... except the use of an IR Diode and a Photo Diode... appart from the fact that they have these components, they could be completely different in terms of what actually drives the operation of them...

i.e. if the functions to control the IR diode in a palm are software based, and the components themselves are memory mapped, then you could just write a bit of low level code to do the job by switching bits on and off in the right order... which is what i think they did... on the palm

on the other hand if the functions for IR_Send, IR_Recieve, IR_Handshake etc... are implemented in hardware, then you could not actually change the form of the transmission... only what is transmitted. i would draw a diagram, but im lazy and working on mathmatica atm...

nedge2k... i am pretty sure that that is the case too in low level... there *may* be a way to cheat though... but i would have trouble explining over a forum withouth LOTS of diagrams... i would also need to look into the actual IR protocol used... this theory depends on the segment data to header ratio, and the coding method used... specifically if you know what you need in terms of IR frequency and wavewform to change the channel on a TV, then you can put that waveform backwards through the physical layer coding and the transmission protocol and work out what data you need to send to actually get that output... a bit like rearranging an equation... but this is wildly speculative atm... and you would need to be able to fake the handshake from the other device...

[Guest loquerion]

MECX... i hear the final year dissertation pain... mine was on a proximity card reader / write for application in encrypted user verification... but i cheated and used VB, because i was able to do it in only 3k lines of code, instead of the approx 10k lines it woudl have taken in C... :D

all i need is the memory map, system architecture overview, and instruction set for the processor... prolly also some detail on the periprial component connection method, if its not in the architecture overview...

but as you said... not likely to get help from HTC... hhhmmm... *ponders if they have a public listed IP and boots his linux box* :twisted:

i am serious about doing it, but it will not be started until the beginning of next month... i have to put effort into getting this PHD i want...

[Guest meatgrinder]

nice work loquerion, i'm sure you have the backing of lots of people now :D

Dave

[Guest djboo]

ive always been convinced this was possible...

obviously while the os has things in the way its not possible, but hack away at those locks and theres always a way... obviously BT to IR kinda things arent possible - but when its the same hardware - theres no excuse :D

if only there was a nice simple

dummyvar = system.irsensor

etc ;)

[Guest MECX]

all i need is the memory map, system architecture overview, and instruction set for the processor... prolly also some detail on the periprial component connection method, if its not in the architecture overview...

LOL ive tried to contact HTC a number of times without responce, the things above would be very nice to have but that aint gonna happen--i think its more of a trial and error/reverse engineering project, and a very long one at that.

good luck tho dude.

i wouldent mind all that info you have on the TV remotes tho, ive got info on the systems they all use but not the actual codes---any chance i could have them>? :-D

PM me --when you have over 10posts of course :D