Orange - Unfair Terms

[Guest akarno]

My SPV finally gave up on me after 18 months faithful service. I am not actually sure that it is a hardware fault. I was not able to place calls or receive SMS messages so I did a hard reset. The call and SMS problem went away but I still cannot use GPRS, even after several more resets.

The good news is I am covered by Orange Care so I get a replacement (maybe).

I called Orange yesterday, and they agreed it was faulty. I arrange a delivery of a replacement. They then went on to give a standard warning that if no one was at the address when the courier called, I would be charged a callout fee. That seemed fair, I am sure they have wasted lots of time delivering to people who did not wait in.

So I waited in all morning for them, but they did not turn up. It seems the courier could not find the address. Seems a bit strange as I have a large number 9 on my door.

I suggested to them that, as I would be charged if I had not waited in for them, that they should pay me the same amount for not turning up. But apparently not. They can charge me if I do not wait for them, but if they do not turn up I get nothing. So now they want me to waste another half day of my weekend waiting for them.

If anyone from Orange reads this, maybe they would care to give an explanation of how this is fair.

[Guest mcwarre]

I suggested to them that, as I would be charged if I had not waited in for them, that they should pay me the same amount for not turning up.

Get real; it is not in the contract you signed (and signed as read) with them :roll:

Any issue is not with Orange but with the firm who couldn't find your house/flat/caravan/stone (that you crawled out from) :D

[Guest akarno]

Get real; it is not in the contract you signed (and signed as read) with them  :roll:  

Any issue is not with Orange but with the firm who couldn't find your house/flat/caravan/stone (that you crawled out from)  :D

First, a contract does not have to be signed to be a contract. If they tell me they will charge me if I am not there and I say I agree to that, then it is a contract.

Second, my issue is with them. Any arrangement/ contract is with them. If they choose to use a third party to provide that service, that's up to them. They are still responsible. Again, fairly basic contract law.

Third, I tend not to crawl anywhere as it hurts me knees.

[Guest sponge]

I understand totally where you are coming from. I hate it when companies make you take time off work to wait in for them, but then don't turn up. If we fail to live up to our side of the deal, we get penalised - why shouldn't they?

It makes me wonder how they would react if we were all to say, when arranging such a visit - 'Yes, that's ok. I will pay you if I am not in. However, if your representative doesn't show to deliver/collect, then I will fine you.'

'No? Then we have a problem and I'd like to know how you are going to solve it...'

:wink:

Unfortunately, it's never going to happen. It's their service and if we don't like it then all we can do is take our business elsewhere. They aren't going to re-negotiate their contracts on an individual basis. All we can hope for is a little courtesy and maybe account credits for our inconvenience - another impossibility I fear. :D

[Guest mcwarre]

First, a contract does not have to be signed to be a contract

B*ll*cks. If it is not signed then it is not worth the paper it is written on............................

Second, my issue is with them. Any arrangement/ contract is with them. If they choose to use a third party to provide that service, that's up to them. They are still responsible. Again, fairly basic contract law.

Third, I tend not to crawl anywhere as it hurts me knees.

Talk about contract law then (apologies for language); how can you try and attempt to claim something that is clearly not supported by a contract? For (apologies for language) sake:

1. Get a life.

2. Stop trying to say “I will do X if they don’t do Y”.

3. Abide by the T&C’s you agreed to.

4. If you want tuppence for a life please ask………………..

[Guest mcwarre]

Unfortunately, it's never going to happen. It's their service and if we don't like it then all we can do is take our business elsewhere. They aren't going to re-negotiate their contracts on an individual basis. All we can hope for is a little courtesy and maybe account credits for our inconvenience - another impossibility I fear.  :D

Sorry,

People are so quick to mouth off and complain when they are talking (apologies for language); get a bleeding life, (apologies for language)! Whinge, whinge, whinge! Why? Because you can't read. Jesus H Christ! Not difficult is it? I am sick and tired of people whinging (at O) because they think that they know better. When if you read ENGLISH it is rather obvious that you are in the wrong.......

And no, I don't work for them (and glad I don't having to put up with (apologies for language) like you). Clear enough?

[Guest reu_lam]

Screw that mcwarre twat - ive got a great number you can call to talk to the Cheif Exec's secretary on monday and she will do anything to keep VIP customers happy.

mcwarre's just bitter because hes had bad service for sooooo loooong

[Guest mcwarre]

Whislt I may have been vociferous in my answers I never resulted to name calling :roll: :roll:

The word you used is very apt; as you have never had any :D :D

[Guest Monolithix [MVP]]

Easy ladies or i'll confiscate the handbags.

As far as i was aware a vocal contract is perfectly legal, and no-one has to sign anything for it to still stand up in court (legal munkehs at work were quite keen to make people aware of this... ;p).

As for the complaint in the first post, yep it is unfair. But unfortunately the carriers business models are based around the prospect of if you don't like it, lump it. They have plenty of new contracts signing up to replace the (relative) odd one or two who leave because they don't like the service.

[Guest TANKERx]

I think that this is typical of how the corporations treat people. I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't for the fact that they say that they love their customers and value them, and advertise themselves as people who treat their customers like pondlife.

Sure, that's how business works and so be it, but by lying about their service, they wind me up. Orange says it values its customers, I (as a customer) say they don't.

I'm fascinated also by how so many of the swear words used in this topic are replaced by '(apologies for language)' while the phrase 'Jesus H Christ' is allowed. As far as I'm concerned, you can use all the Fs, Ts, Cs and Bs in the world, I don't care - but I care more for the use of 'Jesus Christ'. Not a complaint (I know how the world works), just an observation.

[Guest mcwarre]

I'm fascinated also by how so many of the swear words used in this topic are replaced by '(apologies for language)' while the phrase 'Jesus H Christ' is allowed. As far as I'm concerned, you can use all the Fs, Ts, Cs and Bs in the world, I don't care - but I care more for the use of 'Jesus Christ'. Not a complaint (I know how the world works), just an observation.

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, my observation would be that I used Jesus H Christ (not 'Jesus Christ'). As far as I know Jesus didn't have a middle name..... :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Guest akarno]

Easy ladies or i'll confiscate the handbags.

As far as i was aware a vocal contract is perfectly legal, and no-one has to sign anything for it to still stand up in court (legal munkehs at work were quite keen to make people aware of this... ;p).

As for the complaint in the first post, yep it is unfair.  But unfortunately the carriers business models are based around the prospect of if you don't like it, lump it.  They have plenty of new contracts signing up to replace the (relative) odd one or two who leave because they don't like the service.

Monolithix,

Thanks for the sensible comments on this. Yes you are right, there is nothing much we can do about it and they will not miss one customer. All we can do is use forums like this one to make people aware, in case they not, of how these organizations operate. You never know, they may listen to us one day.....

Well I can dream can't I.

[Guest drblow]

phew! vigorous wee exchange of views there, eh?! :0) i think the opposing arguments are pretty much both valid - its a bit of a revolution vs. realism debate isnt it? i must admit that i favour the revolutionary position myself, but i'm having difficulty stopping the realities from making me apathetic! does anyone know what i'm on about, coz i'm not sure i do! :0] Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest Dr Who]

Could be worse chaps.

In the last month with NTL (I know this is a bit off-topic) I have had to take about 6 (!) days off.

First my TV service failed just before the first England match, had to wait 3 days before engineer came out and obviously had to take half a day.

Then my phone stopped working. Had to wait 3 days for an appointment, droid turns up, tells me siganl outside is fine and therefore is a sending problem. That evening - phone still doesn't work - phone up and they can send someone round the next day. Have to take half a day off, geezer turns up and can't fix the problem that day. Says he will phone me with a time to turn up tomorrow. Doesn't and when I phone customer services they assure me he is coming but can't put me through to the correct department (apparently they don't have any phones!). Have to take the whole day off to wait for him. Fixed.

2 weeks later same problem. Have to wait 5 days for appointment. Take a day off work, droid turns up, tells me signal outside is fine must be a problem with sending. It wasn't. Have to book another appointment, take half a day and wait for engineer. Line now works but crackles like mad. Don't feel like gettting it sorted strangely.

Anyone EVER had worse service than that.

BTW I also had to change my E100 twice in this period. I think I have offended somebody.

[Guest Kallisti]

Just as in interjection. There certainly IS something you can do about it. It takes a bit of effort, but unfair contract terms are NOT legal in this case. As Orange are using a standard contract and are clearly in the position of power, they do not have any right to enforce unfair terms on you.

I've had the same situation as the original post, but to be honest I let it go. Every time they tell me that I'll be fined if I'm not there, I let them know that they'll be fined if they don't turn up. I'd never be able to collect, but it cheers me up.

A verbal contract certainly is law, but proving it took place may be more difficult. They couldn't use the phone recording as that's just for training purposes, nothing else (ahem). However, as far as I'm concerned I never made any contract of any sort with Orange when I got my wife's phone. I got sent a phone by one of their agents, I never agreed to any terms. If they can proove otherwise, more power to them, but as I didn't they can't.

Anyway, within Orange Care there are now a number of unfair terms. 1/ you have to report lost phones to the police, my local police don't accept reports of lost phones. That's unfair, and as a result clearly unenforceable. 2/ You must take reasonable care of your phone for a claim of loss to be accepted. That's a contradiction in terms, if you were taking care of it you woudln't have lost it. As a result, another unfair term. I'm currently with the loss adjusters on these two points and I've written to the CEO to inform him that the contract is suspended pending resolution through current or future arbitration.

All in all, don't put up with it. Write to

Mr Sanjiv Ahuja

Office of the CEO

50 George Street

London

W1 U7D

and demand resolution. Waste their top execs time (if they won't delegate power or responsibility to anyone below). They'll soon get the message and treat you fairly.

[Guest chucky.egg]

As you entered a verbal contract with Orange, presumably you could have said "OK, I'll wait around all morning and pay if I'm not there, but if they don't show up you owe me £50"

Of course, they wouldn't accept it, but you could have negotiated the terms at the time. After the event you're fecked

[Guest legalbeagle]

Hmm - lots of interesting supposition. Depending on the precise facts, you may have a claim in contract (written or unwritten). But your rights are not limited to contract law, and you may have a claim in tort. However, your recovery would be limited to the level of your loss, and, unless you are Bill Gates (and it seems unlikely that Mr G would be waiting around for a phone), formal proceedings to recover your loss are unlikely to be cost effective.

As has previously been suggested, you are somewhat reliant on customer service to obtain effective relief. I have previously had delivery charges waived, or (small) cheques in the post as a consequence of a wasted morning's holiday at home. Better, get stuff delivered to you at work!

[Guest squippo]

Get real; it is not in the contract you signed (and signed as read) with them :roll:

Any issue is not with Orange but with the firm who couldn't find your house/flat/caravan/stone (that you crawled out from) :P

[Edit by Paul - Be nice! Respect your fellow members!

[Guest sponge]

Sorry,

People are so quick to mouth off and complain when they are talking (apologies for language); get a bleeding life, (apologies for language)! Whinge, whinge, whinge! Why? Because you can't read. Jesus H Christ! Not difficult is it? I am sick and tired of people whinging (at O) because they think that they know better. When if you read ENGLISH it is rather obvious that you are in the wrong.......

And no, I don't work for them (and glad I don't having to put up with (apologies for language) like you). Clear enough?

Erm, why did you quote me then launch into a verbal attack? Relax, you'll live longer.

[Guest Monolithix [MVP]]

If you want to keep up the pettiness do it off the forum please.

[Guest mcwarre]

If you want to keep up the pettiness do it off the forum please.

Here, Here!

[Guest mike-oh]

Just to add my 2 cents. When my charger fried itself I rang orange and they said that it was covered under my orange care and sent me a replacement. The B******S have gone and charged me 15 quid on this months bill as "orange care event"! If i wasn't in Canada i'd be straight on the phone to them the cheeky sods!

[Guest mcwarre]

Ouch,

Could have got a charger for less.... Gits! :wink: