Rant. Orange not very helpful, need advice!

[Guest Orange Peel]

Hi all,

Bit of a rant I'm afraid..

I recently upgraded to an SPV C500 smartphone. When I upgraded I was on Talk 60 and Everyday 50 paying around £25 a month for this package and around an extra £10 on calls over my talk plan and texts etc. To get the phone for 'free' I had upgrade to Talk 120, keeping my Everyday 50 as a second line. In the Orange Shop they said my new monthly contract would be £30 + texts and chargable minutes... However, I received my first bill today and noticed that the actual charge for my new plan is a few pence short of £35. I phoned orange support, but the guy on the phone didnt want to know, he said I was getting value for money and shouldnt moan about the extra charge as its only a few pounds!!! He also said there's nothing he could do about it.. I asked for a manager or someone higher than him and the line went dead!!

To top this I called back with a few other questions, one regarding picture messaging, which was answered quickly and easily, then another about dust behind the screen. I've only had the phone for 3 weeks although there is what looks like a lifetime of dust under it. The guy said "if it bothers you that much take it to bits and clean it yourself" or "live with it as its not covered by orange"!!!!

After this I've been left feeling very angry. The service from Orange has been laughable and some of their employees need a lesson in customer service..

So what do I do from here? I'm not happy about the bill amount and the dust behind the screen is getting worse by the day?

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

OP :)

[Guest chucky.egg]

The difference in the bill is probably VAT, which AFAIK isn't included in the "advertised" price for some reason. There's probably nothing you can do about it, except kick up a stink and move to a lower tariff (but they might then charge you something for the handset!)

As for the dust, it's not a new thing, lots of people have had it.

You can return the phone to HTC, but somebody posted recently to say that theirs had taken 2 weeks to get back (from the date they sent it) and the fault hadn't been fixed, *and* they thought the phone had been used while it was away.

[Guest Orange Peel]

Thanks for the info mate :)

The difference in the price is down to the service I was quoted then charged for. They guy in the shop said something about Talk 120 and Everyday 120, one service being cross network and the other just to orange.. Looks like I'm going to have to put up with it as Orange (over the phone) don't give a damn and they are unable to help in the shop!

The dust behind the screen worries me a little as its quite severe and I've only had the phone 3 weeks. They have given me the number to get it 'fixed' but I'm not doing that as the horror stories have put me off. I'll put up with it until a real fix is available.

:(

[Guest dodding nonkey]

Hi Orange Peel,

Just like you I was getting nowhere over the phone, so I went to the shop..... Here is how I dealt with my little problem with Orange.

Go into the shop when it is busy, and I mean BUSY, identify the manager(ess), and get to speak to them. When you do, be nice, friendly, jovial even, but be loud (make that 'L O U D' ). Don't shout, just talk out loud, make your voice carry. Make it clear that you know it not the individual's fault, but that, as a representative of Orange, trained by Orange, and as the only person in the shop with any authority, they must be able to help you. Turn to somebody else, being dealt with by one of the drones, apologize for interrupting and ask them if the person dealing with them has mentioned hidden costs. When they say no (as they will) tell them to ask because you didn't and now regret not doing so. In short, become a salesman's nightmare.

As for the business of the phone going dead, when I talk to telesales people, who always tell you 'Jason speaking how may I help you?' Tell them straight away you want to know their surname or payroll number because your solicitor has advised you that a first name is not sufficient. They are obliged under law to identify themselves. That generally grabs their attention quick smart!

Best of luck!

PS dropping the words 'Trading Standards' into the conversation doesn't do any harm either.

[Guest Pondrew]

They are obliged under law to identify themselves.

Woah there!

As someone unlucky enough to work in a call centre I know that we are not obliged to provide our surnames (at least not in the highly reputable Times Top 100 company I work for) and that as long as we are identifiable (in our case we can provide, if asked, our initials) we DO NOT have to provide surnames.

[Guest Confucious]

pondrew - don't you have to provide DNA smples if I ask? :)

[Guest Orange Peel]

Thanks for all the replies and advice guys :)

I'll be popping down to the local store on Monday and will let you know how I get on. So far its been like talking to a brick wall, only this one has attitude. It would be nice for once if one of the Orange employees actually gave a damn about the people who pay their wages!

[Guest Pondrew]

pondrew - don't you have to provide DNA smples if I ask? :)

Hehe. No, no dna but they don't half monitor the length of our loo breaks/smoking breaks. Modern day slavery anyone? :(

[Guest olly_k]

I have always been told to ask for a name, and somthing to identify which 'team' they are in and which call centre also. I always feel a plonker asking for this so rarely go beyond there name and extension number, which they normally give without any problems.

I also heard a good one on the radio yesterday, begin the conversation by saying 'I would like to begin by telling you that our conversation is being recorded to aid in my enquiry' :) This can apparrently give you quite a bit of leeway!

[Guest Pondrew]

I have always been told to ask for a name, and somthing to identify which 'team' they are in and which call centre also. I always feel a plonker asking for this so rarely go beyond there name and extension number, which they normally give without any problems.

I also heard a good one on the radio yesterday, begin the conversation by saying 'I would like to begin by telling you that our conversation is being recorded to aid in my enquiry' :) This can apparrently give you quite a bit of leeway!

You're spot on that we have to identify ourselves, just the suggestion that this can only be by giving our surnames is wrong. Given the (thankfully very small) number of colleagues I've heard of being threatened I don't believe surnames are necessary to ensure accountability...

(one such call a 'gentleman' told one of our coordinators that he knew where we were based and that he would be waiting for the coordinator (calling him by name) outside with a baseball bat. NO ONE DESERVES SUCH TREATMENT although this particulr 'customer' might be the one exception. Strangely when the Supervisor later spoke to the customer and told him she had listened to the call and heard him threaten the coordinator, he claimed to have said nothing of the sort. Maybe he should have taken into account most our calls are recorded...)

[Guest dodding nonkey]

You will note that I said,

want to know their surname or payroll number

Nobody said you HAD to give your surname, only that you are obliged to identify youself. I agree wholeheartedly that no one working at a call centre should be exposed to threats or abuse, but then they should never do this either

I asked for a manager or someone higher than him and the line went dead!!  

I was not advocating violence or abuse, merely pointing out that stating your position and demanding your rights are the things which those in the 'service' industry hate and fear the most. In a lot of cases the 'service' industry seems to believe that we, the paying public, are there to service them, not vice versa. They don't make that mistake more than once when dealing with me!

[Guest amo]

Oh dear oh dear - the lengths people go to because they think theyre going to get results!

Point one: if anyone ever raises their voice to myself of anyone in the team I work within, as a derogatory approach to solving their problem - I am not willing to help. Just as you wouldn't - so think things clearly from both perspectives.

Point two: phone trainers have the same kind of influence as managers when it comes to this certain problem. So be clear about the problem, consice - and don't talk down to any of the staff. This goes without saying!

Point three: as a last resort there is a method of solving this particular problem, which I cannot post on the board but can discuss privatly. Pm me if you need any further help.

[edit - sorry had to add this]Point four: Adding "trading standards" to your sentences just really irritates us! As anyone who took part in the Avon promotion would understand, think about it logically - a large multinational company is not going to do something stupid enough to upset trading standards! Why would they?![/edit]

Lets cut the staff some slack - yes, the CS op shouldn't have hung up (are you sure the line didn't die?), and perhaps the trainer advised you incorrectly (mistakes do unfortunatly happen). However, the outcome is simple - you need to get onto the right talk plan and mistake or not, understandably this is your number one focus. Just take the right approach and you will yeild results.

[Guest blowdart]

Yea shouting at call centre staff is not the way to go about it. Even though I'm still being screwed on GPRS charges which there is no way in hell I've ran up (why yes orange, I am downloading data while I'm driving to and from work :shock:) the CS staff at Orange have been helpful and polite.

They've even aplogised for never calling back (not a good thing, if you promise to call then call damnit).

It's not their fault data services can't find their ass with both hands.

It's not their fault the billing system can't take account of disputes and sends nasty letters.

Hell, they're the only human part of Orange right now, the rest of them can go spin.

amo I have the names of the call centre staff i've been impressed with. If there are internal beanies for keeping customers happy, I'd like to nominate two people - pm me for their names and extensions

[Guest blackhorse]

So what do I do from here?  I'm not happy about the bill amount and the dust behind the screen is getting worse by the day?

Personally speaking as a phone trainer, id do all in my power to help any problems like this.

From what i can gather is because the trainer moved you up to YP120 instead of your talk 60

You saved an instant £79.99 of the cost of the handset instore.

You say you were only paying £25 a month before?

I can only assume you were on the old talk 60 for £17.50 a month with a 30p a day for ED50 making your monthly total £26.50.

It sounds like the Phone trainer has assumed your line rental to be the now £19 (includes XN calls) so has said to you for only £6 a month more you can have all this...

When in actual fact you are now paying £7.50 a month more. Believe you me if you had about £10 of call charges before its because you had no inclusive cross net mins. All which id explain will be fuly included and you should see that call charge figure drop.

So for the extra couple of pound each month, and peace of mind that all cross net calls are included and double this minutes as before youve saved £80.

If you were really really unsatisified and couldnt see eye to eye on this logic, id look at the possiblilties of trying to reverse the upgrade and getting you back to your tariff prior. Through the sales of goods act on miss selling.

At ANY point a customer starts getting loud and disturbing other paying customers, idl do less and less to try go out of my way to help them

[Guest dodding nonkey]

Obviously the members of this forum/community are in a class above those whom the rest of us obviously have to deal with, although I would say that reading is not perhaps one of their strengths. Nobody has recommended shouting, in fact I believe I said not to...."Don't shout, just talk out loud, make your voice carry".???

With regards trading standards, "a large multinational company is not going to do something stupid enough to upset trading standards!” No they would not, however, individuals, whether because of incompetence or greed, do. Believe me, when someone has failed to provide the goods as described, or has lied, either in fact or by omission, the last thing they want is trading standards keeping an eye on them. One report is just one report, two is notable, three or more is a trend and trends are investigated, often with undercover shoppers, who are given far better training than sales staff, and will catch out those who are lying and cheating. The liars and cheats know that, so will put right their “mistake” in order to enable them to continue to fleece more customers.

The whole point is, many sales persons do not make mistakes, miss-advise, or forget to include an item which has been paid for in a package, because they take the time to do the job and do it well. A minority however, do not. The same applies to call centre staff, many are extremely helpful, some just don’t care or are actively obstructive. I should have thought that the phone industry would have wanted them weeded out, not covered up or defended.

This does not just apply to the phone industry; it applies to the whole consumer industry across the board. The bad apples treat the consumer as a muppet and because we're all so British we take the shoddy treatment meekly. If we, the consumers, don't, if we do that very un-British thing and make a fuss, others will see and hear and ask awkward questions, or vote with their feet and pockets, and the bad apples will be thrown out, because in a competitive market loss of customers means loss of job.

And on that note, I'd like to wish you all a merry christmas, or happy holiday depending on your theological opinions !

[Guest the_ugly_north]

All I can say is 'politeness costs nothing'. It may even get you somethg you don't necessarily deserve.................

[Guest Orange Peel]

Hi all,

I spent some time going through my old bills and have decided to drop the issue with the extra cost as on average it will save me a few £'s a month. My main problem was with the attitude of the CSO who only seemed interested in telling me how much value for money I was getting and not listening to what I was saying. I understand they are trained to disarm the situation by presenting the pro's etc but he was ignoring everything I was saying and going on like a stuck record!

Regarding the treatment of 'any' customer service opperator.... Personally I'm alway polite, even when the CSO has an attitude. At the end of the day why give them any ammo to you back at you if you need to esculate the problem. Also, its not in my nature to have a go at these people.. I worked for a few years as an advisor for a computer company dealing with angry customers most days, so I understand what its like to be in the line of fire!

My only issue now is with the dust behind the screen. Its not acceptable and the way in which Orange have 'helped' is very poor. The phone carries their brand but they seem totally uninterested, and have been rude and sarcastic on 3 out of the 4 phone calls to them.

I'm sticking with the phone as its a great bit of kit (besides the dust)

:)

[Guest the_ugly_north]

If you have O care you could (ahem) drop it by accident!!

[Guest Confucious]

the_ugly_north! Shame on you! I am suprised you could even think such a thing :)

[Guest amo]

Theres been some really good points made in this thread. Upon looking at the balanced argument I can definitly agree when mentioned earlier that some consultants may put their own needs ahead of the customers (laziness, greed etc) which is simply unacceptable. This is what I like about the idea of mystery shoppers.

Afteral, we get ticked off too when we call our own customer services and get fobbed off when we know they are talking rubish - ridiculous!

However, let me make it clear that this is a very small minority of instances - and lets face it people write here to get advise etc and make complaints, its not very often a thread is started to praise excellent service! So I hope any of the comments made do not negate the image you have of OCS.

They're a good team, but have a tricky job - especially with the more tech savvy amongst us.

The main point to conclude from all this is probably to have a good attitude, to admit when unsure about something, and be cooperative throughout. Its just difficult to relay this message to everyone else :)