Guest fraser Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 There is absolutely no need for that, I was polite in expressing my views in my post and I would expect the same back. The guy who posted below you made his (very good and informative) points without resorting to rudeness and insults. If you cant do the same then dont post. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, but I was angry. You basically said he didn't have a hope in hell, when I'd say the odds are better than 50/50. Trading Standards would have resolved this because a) that's their job and :D that why you pay taxes. Retailers try to get away with whatever they can, and if you don't know any better, they will happily tell you to piss-off. They already have your money, why should they care? In high volume sales, you are literally just a number to them. Have you never used "sale of goods act" or "fit for purpose" when dealling with dodgy merchandise? They are key phrases that are GUARNTEED to change the way the retailer deals with you. You are telling him that you know a little about the law, and that he shouldn't push it. What are they teaching you in school nowadays, advanced Pop Idol or something? :lol: We covered all this back in my day, and if you weren't paying attention, don't offer out advice based on it. In every one of my posts I have tried to make sure I didn't say something that I wasn't certain on, and when it was conjecture or assumption, I said so. On the other hand, you said something that was entirely incorrect, but was said with such an authorative tone that you came off as if you were an expert in the field. Don't lecture me on message board etiquette and when/when-not you should post! :( The fact is, he says the damage wasn't his. O2 would not like the bad press about being ratty on replacements, and if he kicked up a fuss he'd undoubtably get a new one. On the other hand, he could ask a question about it here, get some bad, incorrect advice, and be several hundred quid out of pocket. Meanwhile the retailler gets away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaser81 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 You basically said he didn't have a hope in hell, when I'd say the odds are better than 50/50. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No I didnt, go back and read my post again. I said in regards to him being able to prove the phone is NOT liquid damaged he wouldnt have a leg to stand on if O2 has proof of it, and that by arguing with O2 he would be UNLIKELY to get a result, which is true. Retailers try to get away with whatever they can, and if you don't know any better, they will happily tell you to piss-off. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, retailers, like myself, follow the rules. The phone was liquid damaged, which whether by accident or design IS NOT COVERED BY THE GUARANTEE. It states clearly in the guarantee that its not covered and why not. If his phone had been faulty as a result of a design flaw or manufacturing fault, it would be a different matter. Have you never used "sale of goods act" or "fit for purpose" when dealling with dodgy merchandise? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You dont seem to understand do you? This is NOT dodgy or shabby merchandise but DAMAGED merchandise. Your example in a previous post about your faulty TV upon which you managed to get 50% of the repair cost is a completely different situation under which, quite rightly, you argued that it should not have broken down so quickly after purchase. It doesnt apply here because this is not a normal fault, but you dont seem to see that. "sale of goods act" or "fit for purpose" They are key phrases that are GUARNTEED to change the way the retailer deals with you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Believe me, they dont guarantee you anything, and I certainly am not about to replace an accidentally damaged phone in my shop just cause someone starts mentioning things which have no relevance. You are telling him that you know a little about the law, and that he shouldn't push it. We covered all this back in my day, and if you weren't paying attention, don't offer out advice based on it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess that makes two of us then. Don't lecture me on message board etiquette and when/when-not you should post! :lol: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I lectured you on nothing, simply told you not to be rude and offensive in your posts, something you still seem unable to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boyo69 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 please gentlemen, i have been overwhelmed by the posts of support for my plight and also the various advice and suggestions.... i would hate for this post to be moderated or removed......all opinions appear right, all the various suggestions seem sensible and logical....... i only wanted others to know that our prized possessions could be rendered useless through no fault of ourselves, but more importantly, a company the size and industry standing as O2 appear not to actually give two hoots about the little man.......... i really think that every opinion i have heard merits good advice and if i had time, money and no need for a replacement in a hurry, then i would definitely persue this on nothing else but moral grounds..........unfortunately, i do not have any of the three and therefore as mentioned in my previous post, i have decided to move on and forget this sorry episode........ basically, O2 are highly unlikely to get a renewal out of me in 9 mths time.....perhaps this incident will also make others think about their choice of supplier in the future should they come unstuck with their units......... please accept my sincere thanks for your time and efforts in replying at all, but let's leave it at that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 (edited) Hey all, Since this topic is not going anywhere, this will likely be my last word on it. I'd originally typed it up and tried to submit it, but the topic was locked. Chatted to mod about it, reopened it and agreed to bail out. Here's the original post I was going to put down, with a few changes... No I didnt, go back and read my post again. I said in regards to him being able to prove the phone is NOT liquid damaged he wouldnt have a leg to stand on if O2 has proof of it, and that by arguing with O2 he would be UNLIKELY to get a result, which is true. Which isn't the full story; this dispute revolves around the cause of the damage, which he maintains wasn't his fault. If I bought a PC and the saleman put a sledgehammer through it after I'd handed over the money, then I'd expect a refund or replacement. Here there are essentially arguing about who wielded the hammer. No, retailers, like myself, follow the rules. The phone was liquid damaged, which whether by accident or design IS NOT COVERED BY THE GUARANTEE. It states clearly in the guarantee that its not covered and why not. If his phone had been faulty as a result of a design flaw or manufacturing fault, it would be a different matter. The fact that you refer to the guarantee is telling that you don't know about this sort of thing, or are coming at it from a purely retailer point-of-view. Guarantees are "in addition to your statuatory rights" or "do not affect your statuatory rights". Either way, you have certain undeniable rights when you buy anything new. Some of them are quite surprising, well worth reading though the advice leaflet they have online. Do you know about these rights? I didn't, until I got peved about my TV and I chased it up. There aren't any advertisers going out of their way to tell you this sort of thing. Originally, they were acting as if looking up the repair centre phone number was a major favour to ask! Anyway, it is the posters case that he didn't cause the damage. If he is correct, this means: a) the damage was present when he bought the phone :( the damage was caused after he put it in for repair (and isn't the root-cause of the problem) Neither way is he responsible. You dont seem to understand do you? This is NOT dodgy or shabby merchandise but DAMAGED merchandise. Your example in a previous post about your faulty TV upon which you managed to get 50% of the repair cost is a completely different situation under which, quite rightly, you argued that it should not have broken down so quickly after purchase. But the poster is adamant that he did not cause the fault. Which means it wasn't a) accidental damage :D malicious damage c) acceptable wear & tear Which leads to him being protected under the law. Any of the above would make it his own fault, and I agree that you won't get much in the way of help. Of course, they'd still need to argue between them who caused the problem in the first place, and that's what Trading Standards are good at. I don't know the relationships between them, but shops appear genuinely scared of them. Believe me, they dont guarantee you anything, and I certainly am not about to replace an accidentally damaged phone in my shop just cause someone starts mentioning things which have no relevance. Totally agree with you there, you'll get customers trying on anything. I once bought a playstation, put my old broken one* in the box, then returned it for a replacement. so yeah, I know that you gotta be watchful! * the fault was due to a design fault (cheap plastic moving parts instead of metal, the old upside-down PSX thing), so I have no moral problems with myself getting a free repair at Sony's cost! :twisted: Anyway, sorry if my tone offended anyone! I never meant it in a nasty way, gotta use more smilies I guess. The "fool" bit earliers, c'mon sure evertyone loves BA!! "You ain't gonna get me on no plane!!". :lol: Edited February 21, 2005 by fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mupwangle Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 >>please accept my sincere thanks for your time and efforts in replying at all, but let's leave it at that ! Just to completely ignore you ;-) but I feel this applies to everyone in a similar situation so I think it is worth posting. Ignoring all the arguments about the rights and wrongs of this, and I know you've lost patience with o2 and the whole sorry situation, but were I in your shoes I would take half and hour and put this to bed once and for all. Every company in the world has a team dedicated to complaints. Write to them. Don't argue the toss about it, but point out how bad you feel you were treated - being made to feel like a opportunist who was trying to get a freebie when you really feel that you have done nothing wrong. Point out that you've given up and just bought a new phone as you couldn't face any more arguing. Also point out that, in your eyes, o2 have provided you with rubbish customer service, and even if they are correct then there is no excuse for being arses about it. Tell them that you are p***ed off with o2 and intend to go to the competition when your contract expires. Companies love complaints. Really. Or at least decent ones do. Complaints point out weaknesses in their procedures that they can close - not really for your benefit, but for theirs. If they fix it then they don't get more complaints about it and people don't leave. Also, if they want to, they can make you change your mind. A company's repututation is made by complaints. No-one ever tells anyone about normal service - only when it is bad or good. If they make the effort then they can make a disgruntled customer evangelical about them. You *will* get a response. They might tell you where exactly to stick your handset, in which case you will be 100% convinced that you should never deal with them again. They might offer some form of compensation (but that isn't really something you should count on), but more likely they might say sorry. You'd be surprised that it usually makes you feel a bit better - having a person contact you either by phone or email to apologise. Couple of examples: Changed to Royal Bank of Scotland. They totally mucked up the paperwork and I complained after being mucked about for a month. Apologised (and gave me £50!) and I've stayed with them. British Gas screwed me over. Complained and got a nasty letter in reply. Now will not touch anything by them. They've lost at least £10k of new business from negative recommendations to people I know (and messageboard posts!) Pipex - customer service was rubbish and took them 3 months to reply. Never touch them again and they've lost at least 50 new customers as a result (I work in IT and get asked for recommendations all the time - most of them followed) Orange - can't remember what they did to annoy me but I complained and they apologised. Other than a brief stint with o2 (bad move!!!!) I've been with them for about 10 years. A colleague of mine complains a lot. Dell transferred him from pillar to post about changing the name on an extended warranty so he wrote to the VP of Dell europe who gave him a couple of hundred quid. Complained to a car dealer because he was mis-sold a car (technically he got a better one than he should've) but because their service was rubbish he got £750. You don't have much to lose by letting these people know how you feel. Its more productive than putting it on a messageboard. I'll shut up now and leave you in peace. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaser81 Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 i apologise if this isn't capitalised properly, but it's nearly two o'clock in the morning and i am posting this from my i-mate jam as i can't be arsed to boot up my pc. i had earlier pm'd a mod and asked that this topic be locked as it seemed to be heading towards a slanging match between me and fraser, certainly things were getting heated. i also told the disco stu that i wouldn't post in this topic again for fear of causing further arguement, but in light of fraser's very amiable final word above, i just wanted to say sorry to fraser if anything i posted wound him up, i guess i just felt like fighting the retailers corner a little bit, and i didn't mean for things to get that bad. you guys have to understand that though consumer laws are indeed there to protect you, for us staff on the front line, it sometimes feels like we have to put up with an awful lot of crap from people who have obviously taken absolutely no care of their products, and then blame us when it goes wrong. that isn't the case here though with boyo69, who has been most graceful throughout this affair. as for me and you fraser, i guess we have our own opinions and can agree to disagree on this one, but i meant you no offence and wish you all the best. peace out guys, and good night. i'm going to bed now! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamShady Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but under the new SGA rules, its up to the retailer to prove that the item wasn't defective when they sold it to you. Since the phone is allegedly pristine externally, they'd be hard pushed to prove it wasn't water-damaged before it was sold (since there's no external signs, and I doubt they would have opened it up). Personally, I'd have gone after O2 with everything - they would have buckled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WWWeed Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Not shure if this will help, But I have just got of the phone to HTC UK and there office number is 08712230217 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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