WI-FI & Flight mode

[Guest wellhip]

Anyone else noticed this problem.... Attached to a wi-fi network... NO "W" on the screen..... Wireless Manager just says "Status: Connected to network" and there is no way to turn it off!

Then you turn on flight mode and the wi-fi stays active (V. dangerous if you are on a plane... well not dangerous... but you can get in trouble with the flight crew)

Anyone else seen anything like the above!

[Guest Chaser81]

I have noticed when sending a Fax with KSE Truefax that upon hitting "Send", the device flicks over to Flight Mode... But then still sends a fax. How it can supposedly be in "Flight Mode" and yet still access the GSM network to place a fax call I dont know.

I dont think "Flight Mode" is as safe and resilient as we all think.

[Guest fraser]

Hmm, not all that good if you can still fax. However, the WiFi on a plane is no biggie, some new planes even have their own wireless access point now, with a ground linkup. Can't wait until that is the norm!

And the whole "don't use phones on planes" has nothing to do with safety, the mobile networks can't handle someone doing cell transfers at over 600mph in from a location where your phone can see dozens of cells via line of sight that otherwise wouldn't happen on the ground. You couldn't use a phone on a plane even if you wanted to; folk have tested this in Cessa's etc, above 2000 feet it doesn't work. So anyone that told you they used a phone on a plane is a liar!

[Guest adjonline]

You couldn't use a phone on a plane even if you wanted to; folk have tested this in Cessa's etc, above 2000 feet it doesn't work. So anyone that told you they used a phone on a plane is a liar!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure that's right...people on the 9/11 planes used mobiles to contact relatives.

[Guest fraser]

I'm not sure that's right...people on the 9/11 planes used mobiles to contact relatives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Way off topic, but reseach suggests otherwise. A random google found this, one of many experiments carried out in the wake of 911. Pretty much all say it's not possible. The link I've given found that at 8,000 feet, in a relatively slow moving cessna, the success rate for a call was 9%. In an airliner, with a thicker skin, smaller windows, travelling at twice the speed and three times the altitude, you'd have no chance.

A quote:

I am an RF design engineer, having built out Sprint, Verizon and another network in New Orleans. You are absolutely correct. We have trouble making these things work for cars going 55 mph on the ground. If you need another engineer's testimony for any reason, let me know I will corroborate.

Coincidently, I had my new phone sitting in the pocket of my car on the drive home tonight, just below the stereo. Throught the whole jouney the radio was beeping almost constantly, trying to keep a lock on the cell stations (each has a range of 6 miles IIRC). I keep on expecting it to ring!! And that's about 70 mph. It must have been doing a cell handover every couple of minutes.

Make of it what you will.

Though saying that, there is also research that using a mobile can interfere with the ILS system, a beacon that guides planes through the glide path in poor weather. That and the facts that it's illegal and you'll get booted off the plane is enough to make me paranoid about the radio activating itself!

So, I did a couple of tests myself. First, switched the radio off straight away tried to call it. The call went instantly to answerphone, meaning that not only that it was off, but that it had signed-off the network. If a phone is powered off thru yanking the battery, when it is next phoned, the network thinks it is still connected and tries to place the call to it. Eventially this times out and you get the answerphone. It's a neat thing to know because you can use it to tell if your friends have their phones off, or if they are moving in and out of bad reception. If it's the latter: try later, the former: leave a message.

I then tried to dial out on the phone. A little popup box appeared asking me if I wanted to turn it on, fair enough. This suggests that the radio has a similar mechanism to GPRS in that it can attempt to auto-connect when a software process requests it. In this case, it asks for confirmation. When you say yes, it takes about 20 seconds to reconnect, but I noticed that it didn't place the call, but left me on the contact screen. I also received an SMS while it was off, which might have messed it up tho (the missed call alert from Orange).

Chaser, could you post more info about the fax thing? Do you mean that you have the phone in flight mode, you were able to send a fax? And without it visually saying that the radio connected? Or that the phone was in normal mode but the indicator was wrong? I'm a little bit concerned about this, I reckon that you might have problems convincing the flight crew that it's safe as it is! I'd hate to be on a flight bored and not be able to play a game or write an email or two! This is one of the reasons that I went for a more pda-like design!! Even with a smartphone that was certifed "safe" with flight modes etc, you'd still not be able to use it on a plane without convincing a) the flight crew and :lol: every person that notices it on the way past to the bathroom. (:( then will complain to (a), who will likely ask you to switch it off as they are fed up with folk saying to them, or because other passengers with Nokias might see you, think it's OK and try to get in a quick game of snake!

[Guest Chaser81]

@fraser

Yeah, it had me worried to so I emailed KSE about it to get their opinion.

What happens when you hit "Send" in Truefax is that your phone appears to switch over to flight mode (the indicator comes on at the top of the screen and if you tap the signal indicator the bubble pops up with the option of turning flight mode off - exactly what would happen if you put it in flight mode yourself) but then Truefax sends a fax.

When I asked KSE about this, they said it was normal and something to do with their program not being able to make a direct connection to the drivers needed to access the modem (apparently Windows Mobile doesnt allow a direct connection - something I find hard to believe cause other programs are able to do it), so they have to take the OS's drivers out of the loop which results in the phone indicating that it is in flight mode.

It is a bit confusing and a bit above my head I am afraid (I am not a programmer), but I think it has something to do with the phone dialling out on your fax number. Perhaps Windows Mobile only allows programs to make a direct connection to the modem for outgoing data calls on your main number, but not your fax line?

[Guest fraser]

That's not quite so bad, though it is a little strange!

Edited February 25, 2005 by fraser

[Guest Chaser81]

Still a little worrying though. If KSE can make the phone appear to be in Flight Mode, what other programs could do it without you knowing? Possibly even maliciously like a virus even?