STANDARD functionality - disappointed or not?

[Guest M@rtin]

I haven't really done much with my C500 as far as custom apps go, mainly because I originally envisioned it as a backup for my Pocket PC. Since a decent version of TomTom came out I've come to realise that I don't really need both, so I've been investigating how I can replace PPC functionality with the Smartphone...

This is where I've come to the conclusion that the basic OS is woefully lacking in many areas! My main gripes are as follows:

1. PIM apps are just awful - no categories in Calendar, can't edit Tasks, can't set custom alarms, standard alarm function is poor and requires many button presses to get to, calculator doesn't even have memory/percent functions... need I go on?!! How on earth to they expect Smartphones to be used as organisers when they are so basic?

2. Stupid "bugs" (more like oversights) like the SMS "doink" noise, and the fact that certain apps can override the system sounds setting even when it's set to eveything off :(

3. Homescreens are a pain to configure if you're not into xml - I prefer the Pocket PC option of separate modules that you can select individually.

4. No sending of files via bluetooth

5. No sending contacts via SMS.

I'm sure there are more but I could be here all day if I carried on! The point is that to fix all these things I have to buy a dozen different apps to get things working the way I want them to... Now I'm not expecting totally professional apps like Power Calendar or Papyrus (which I registered today), but a little bit more effort would be appreciated!! As it is, I find myself in the situation that friends with Nokia/SE phones often have features that mine doesn't, which doesn't really make Smartphones look that great.

Am I on my own here? I'd be interested to hear from people who are actually happy with their standard smartphone..! I do like mine but it really is a love-hate relationship :lol:

Edited March 4, 2005 by M@rtin

[Guest pietta]

i totally agree with you. i remember the first time i got my c500 i was surprised it was so inadequate. i had to buy programs just to set my task straight! you have to buy everything just to get it right, unlike symbian. damn u microsoft

[Guest shack77]

(*cough* Bluetooth)

Ahem.

[Guest xenophobe]

I spent $2200 on my P4 3.2 Alienware with 1gig and a Radeon 9800XT...

OMG when I got it at home, it didn't have ANYTHING I apsolutely needed for it. I had to like, buy Office XP, and GAMES? THOSE SHOULD ALL BE FREE! Of course Microsoft KNOWS I want to play games... Why didn't they put DOOM3 and Half Life 2 and Halo on it? Why did I have to pay hundreds of dollars to write a document??? Download Anti-Virus and anti-Spyware software? WHAT??? That stuff is FREE isn't it? Why didn't microsoft put THAT on my computer... They KNEW I would need it... And of course a computer is for Porn... omg I was so shocked to find there wasn't a single picture or video for me to test out my newly aquired computer!!!!! :evil:

I absolutely HATE Microsoft... ](*,)

[Guest pietta]

well that is good sarcasm. the point is though basic applications shouldnt be brushed over. my basic c500 is worse off than my old sek700 (a non smartphone), well apart from activesync. what a shame microsoft, are u listening? :-"

[Guest xenophobe]

Perhaps microsoft should not have included Outlook compatibility, and charged for it like they do with almost everything else?

[Guest pietta]

that would be a sure exit strategy for customers like me. if they dont clean up their act on wm2005, to hell with microsoft smartphones

[Guest chucky.egg]

The only part of the original post that I agree with is the inability to send contact via SMS, even with Rey's SendContact it's still far too basic to actually be much use.

But as for the rest... No! I'm happy to buy 3rd party apps to add functionality, and in many cases there are several apps to choose from for any given function. That means I can pick the one that suits me best.

Sure, the Calendar could have been better, and the built-in Tasks app is a joke, but the point of smartphones is that you can add functionality that you need/want... not that they come with everything you will ever need straight out of the box.

[Guest chucky.egg]

if they dont clean up their act on wm2005, to hell with microsoft smartphones

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are serious, aren't you?

Show us another phone, that you can get for free, that does everything you want it to do out of the box.

[Guest pietta]

i mentioned 'basic' functionality and as i quote 'my normal k700 could do more out of the box than my smart c500'. i just want a smartphone that can do all the basic functions without having to buy software.

[Guest markgamber]

Again, I have to laugh. If Microsoft actually did everything everyone wanted them to, they'd be accused of being big, bad, evil, soul-sucking Micro$oft. Instead, they produce a bare bones OS which allows 3rd party programmers such as myself to go nuts and operators and users to pick and choose what sucks up the memory on their phone and they're accused of everything from being lazy to (apparently) setting people up for having to pay for features in the future (or something like that). Some see the glass as half full, some see it as half empty. Aside from that, what's this prove?

[Guest xenophobe]

i mentioned 'basic' functionality and as i quote 'my normal k700 could do more out of the box than my smart c500'. i just want a smartphone that can do all the basic functions without having to buy software.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lol. Basic functions, yeah? Before I bought or installed any software, I could make phone calls, receive phone calls, see who is calling me, retrieve messages and store numbers in it. Those are the "basic functions".

[Guest chucky.egg]

i mentioned 'basic' functionality and as i quote 'my normal k700 could do more out of the box than my smart c500'. i just want a smartphone that can do all the basic functions without having to buy software.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why though?

If the K700 does all those things, and you don't want to buy additional software/functionality, why would you want to buy a smartphone?

[Guest pietta]

i chose my c500 because it has greater flexibility. (mem card. flexible os, apps, games) but that does not mean it can do basic functions like a 'normal phone'

[Guest xenophobe]

Ok, so what basic features does your C500 not do?

All of the "basic features" that have been described so far aren't "basic" features of a 'normal phone'.

*shrug*

[Guest Tunney]

In my opinion, a smartphone should be able to do everything a regular phone can do out-of-the-box.

Now, if 3rd party developers want to charge for additional software then it should be things that extend the functionality beyond what a regular phone can do.

I'm sure that I'm not the only one that wants to see the smartphone market increase in size. Now, the average consumer isn't going to buy a phone that can do less than their non-smartphone, are they?

Having to buy software that mirrors non-smartphone functionality is a dead-end. A smartphone is still a phone and it should be able to do the things mentioned in this thread straight away and without additional expenditure.

I spent $2200 on my P4 3.2 Alienware with 1gig and a Radeon 9800XT...

OMG when I got it at home, it didn't have ANYTHING I apsolutely needed for it. I had to like, buy Office XP, and GAMES? THOSE SHOULD ALL BE FREE!

That's not a very good example, IMO.

Windows XP does come with a lot of stuff for free - stuff that you'd expect any OS to do out-of-the-box.

Imagine if Windows XP didn't come with a file manager, or a search facility or a text editor. You'd be pretty annoyed, wouldn't you?

I don't think anyone is complaining that 2003SE doesn't come with any (decent) games or an office app.

Edited February 25, 2005 by Tunney

[Guest Confucious]

I have to agree with Chucky and xenophobe on this.

The basic features of making and receiving phone calls are covered. The K700 might have other features you want but you haven't said what theuy are - they are not "Basic". You might want them but not everyone does - If youi want them then you can add them. if you don't then you don't have too. Would you rather have an o/s that tries to be all things to all people and ends up so bloated it's unusable?

What you consider basic others don't. Windows has the capability of doing just about everything (apart from sending contacts -now that is something you could gripe about) and as such it can become the phone YOU want not the phone someone else thinks you should want.

I love my C500.

Just my 2d's worth.

[Guest M@rtin]

Some interesting points here... I don't think the PC analogy is accurate, but how about a comparison with a P900 which I used to own? As standard it had:

A Notes app!! I forgot this huge oversight in my original post!!

Categories on PIM items

Alarms on tasks

Ability to convert an appointment into a task and vice-versa

Multiple alarms with weekday/weekend settings

GPRS data monitor

Slightly better calculator

Bluetooth/infrared beaming options on single/multiple items.

Plus loads of Symbian apps if you needed more functionality. It wasn't perfect but it was good enough in standard form to use - unlike smartphones. This meant that I didn't have to install loads of extra apps to get it the way I wanted, meaning I had more free memory and better stability.

As for basic phone apps, IMHO "basic" means a lot more than making phone calls and saving contacts these days! The C500 is competing with things like the SE K700i or the Nokia 6230i so it should at least have most of their features to stand out, e.g. stopwatch/countdown timer, currency converter. These little features are simple to implement but they can make life much easier if you have them to hand, rather than finding yourself without something and having to trawl the internet for it after the opportunity has passed.

[Guest pietta]

thats exactly what im talking about 8)

[Guest chucky.egg]

...how about a comparison with a P900...

Hokey dokey, I had one too and loved it until I got to the stage where I got a second phone for times when I didn't want to carry the big beastie around.

A Notes app!! I forgot this huge oversight in my original post!!

Yep, you are right there. No idea why that wasn't in the phone as standard. But again, that's not something you'll find in a "standard" phone

Categories on PIM items

I've only just started using these now that I can add icons to them, which is very useful, but not a biggy to me personally

Alarms on tasks

Smartphone has that doesn't it? (don't use them, but I'm pretty sure they get sync'd with tasks)

Ability to convert an appointment into a task and vice-versa

Didn't know you could do that. Could be useful to some people I guess, but another feature not in a "standard" phone

Multiple alarms with weekday/weekend settings

LOL I have an alarm clock! Never did understand the fascination with this topic!

GPRS data monitor

No arguments there, but once again, you won't get that on a standard phone, and things like All Locations and SPB offer loads more functionality than the UIQ built-in app - how long would it be before we get "Why oh why don't MS provide charts for their GPRS logs"

Slightly better calculator

Hmm, feels like were scraping the barrel a bit here!

Bluetooth/infrared beaming options on single/multiple items.

Yep, OK, I'll buy that (or rather, I'll have to buy that if I want it on my Smartphone!)

Plus loads of Symbian apps if you needed more functionality

Yeah, same with Smartphone

It wasn't perfect but it was good enough in standard form to use ... I didn't have to install loads of extra apps to get it the way I wanted, meaning I had more free memory and better stability.

Mine was pretty stable, but no more so than my C500 is. And personally I did have to add loads to get it the way I wanted it (just as I've had to with my C500)

..."basic" means a lot more than making phone calls... The C500 is competing with things like the SE K700i ... so it should at least have ... stopwatch/countdown timer, currency converter.

But seriously, isn't that just fluff? I never use currency converters, and I only use Countdown timers when I'm cooking (once a week these days!)

These little features are simple to implement but they can make life much easier if you have them to hand, rather than finding yourself without something and having to trawl the internet for it after the opportunity has passed.

That is a fair point, if you want it and don't have it to hand, but know that it's out there it is annoying.

I agree with some of your points, but I do not believe that any phone can get it right for everyone, and I'm actually happy with the principal of "basic features" and "want more/better? then buy it" because the 3rd party products that this approach encourages (things like Papyrus) are way better than MS would bother with.

If MS did a slightly better job of the built-in apps (and lets face it they, like Symbian et al, a're not going to spend a lot of time on it) then the market for truly excellent apps would be smaller, thus fewer developers and less choice.

Right, rant over, I'm off to see if Tasks have alarms!

Edited February 26, 2005 by chucky.egg

[Guest xenophobe]

Still, no one can list what BASIC functions the C500 does not do.

The Symbian IS a smartphone, just not a MS Windows smartphone... that platform has been around for what 5 years now? Windows Smartphones are still in their infancy and aren't as finely tuned as Symbian devices. Except that to change.

Windows Smartphone is on what, revision 2.5? How many revisions has Symbian gone through since inception?

A Notes app!! I forgot this huge oversight in my original post!!

Categories on PIM items

Alarms on tasks

Ability to convert an appointment into a task and vice-versa

Multiple alarms with weekday/weekend settings

GPRS data monitor

Slightly better calculator

Bluetooth/infrared beaming options on single/multiple items.

With the exception of the GRPS monitor, none of those features would even be considered "basic" by any means. GRPS is not a "basic" feature either, for that matter, but the monitor should be if the phone is GRPS compatible.

I'm not implying that I'm not completely happy with all of the features that the SMT 5600 offers, but to say it lacks "basic" features of a "standard phone" is pretty lame and makes the proponents of that statement look rather clueless.

[Guest M@rtin]

Firstly, I just want to say that I'm not against smartphones - far from it, I do really like my C500 and wouldn't swap it for any other phone. It's just that finding more and more drawbacks as you start to use the phone regularly is kinda annoying, especially as I've been used to this as a long time Windows CE/Pocket PC user.

An analogy might be seeing your child's report card from school... if they come home with a grade C, would you be happy with that or want them to try harder to get an A next time? This is a crap analogy really as I don't have kids, just trying to get my point across, lol! :D

A Notes app!! I forgot this huge oversight in my original post!!

Yep, you are right there. No idea why that wasn't in the phone as standard. But again, that's not something you'll find in a "standard" phone

Again we disagree, most phones in the C500 price bracket have a notes or memo function - I find it useful for keeping useful settings I need for work, e.g. IP addresses, proxy settings, etc. Having notes that sync with Outlook is great for fast editing and easy transfer to my Pocket PC.

Alarms on tasks

Smartphone has that doesn't it? (don't use them, but I'm pretty sure they get sync'd with tasks)

They get synced but no option to set on the phone - Even a Pocket PC only lets you set a generic reminder which fires at 8am on the due date. The smartphone Tasks app is probably the worst standard thing on the phone, given that all you can do is set a task up by name and nothing else - no alarms, no recurrance, no categories, nada, zip, zilch!

Bear in mind that a lot of people (me being one of them) want their smartphone to be the only PDA-type device they need to use. Personally I'm not a heavy PIM user, I just want a few simple options to remind me to call someone in the afternoon, keep track of when I go to the gym, that kind of thing. As it is I have to invest in extra apps if I want to do this.

Multiple alarms with weekday/weekend settings

LOL I have an alarm clock! Never did understand the fascination with this topic!

OK, but do you always have your alarm clock with you? Do you not want to set more than one alarm at once? What if you're out at the weekend and decide to crash at a friend's place (or better still, get lucky :D) - you won't have advance warning so are unlikely to have an alarm clock, but the chances are that you will have your phone.

How about if you want to set an alarm to remind you of something during the day (seeing as you can't set a task for it!) but then forget to reset your only alarm back to the time you wake up - you end up oversleeping and being late for work :lol: Or on the flip side, you use your phone to wake you up every day for work but then forget to turn the alarm off Friday night - end up waking up very early on Saturday morning!

Those were just a few examples of why one alarm just doesn't cut it - again I come back to the point that other phones can do it, why not ours?

GPRS data monitor

No arguments there, but once again, you won't get that on a standard phone, and things like All Locations and SPB offer loads more functionality than the UIQ built-in app - how long would it be before we get "Why oh why don't MS provide charts for their GPRS logs"

All I need is a basic resettable counter of how much data I've downloaded, nothing special. In this case the basic functionality isn't even there, and I'm pretty sure the K700i/6230 have it...

Slightly better calculator

Hmm, feels like were scraping the barrel a bit here!

OK, this isn't a major issue I agree, but it means that in a situation where I need a calculator quickly for something, I try reaching for my phone, spend a few seconds looking for the feature I need and then giving up because it isn't there - end result being that I've wasted time and I look at my expensive and supposedly state of the art phone and think "well what's the use of all that power if it can't even do the simple things?"

..."basic" means a lot more than making phone calls... The C500 is competing with things like the SE K700i ... so it should at least have ... stopwatch/countdown timer, currency converter.

But seriously, isn't that just fluff? I never use currency converters, and I only use Countdown timers when I'm cooking (once a week these days!)

Anything is fluff if you never use it, but it's a glaring omission if you do :( I'm sure there are features you couldn't live without that I'd find unimportant; that's OK, everyone is different.

I agree with some of your points, but I do not believe that any phone can get it right for everyone, and I'm actually happy with the principal of "basic features" and "want more/better? then buy it" because the 3rd party products that this approach encourages (things like Papyrus) are way better than MS would bother with.

I'd be happy with basic features too, but I guess my point is that a lot of the apps are "sub-basic" and just seem unfinished and/or poorly thought out. Pocket PCs are also basic as standard, but still useable in that unmodified form.

If MS did a slightly better job of the built-in apps (and lets face it they, like Symbian et al, a're not going to spend a lot of time on it) then the market for truly excellent apps would be smaller, thus fewer developers and less choice.

I can't see that happening, look at the thousands of apps for Pocket PCs. There will always be people who want more out of there devices no matter how powerful.

[Guest M@rtin]

Still, no one can list what BASIC functions the C500 does not do.

Depends on your definition of basic... I'm not trying to compare my C500 with an old 80's "brick" here :lol:

Basic to me means the features compared to competing (non-smart) phones on the market - I've chosen the K700i and 6230 as two popular choices that quite a few of my friends/relatives have - they are similar in size, shape and price. If I say that my phone is fantastic and much better than theirs, it really doesn't look that way when they can do something simple that I can't! Saying "but I can download something that does it" just isn't the same...

The Symbian IS a smartphone, just not a MS Windows smartphone... that platform has been around for what 5 years now?  Windows Smartphones are still in their infancy and aren't as finely tuned as Symbian devices.  Except that to change. 

Windows Smartphone is on what, revision 2.5?  How many revisions has Symbian gone through since inception?

With the exception of the GRPS monitor, none of those features would even be considered "basic" by any means.  GRPS is not a "basic" feature either, for that matter, but the monitor should be if the phone is GRPS compatible.

I don't really expect the OS to change that much because I've seen it with all the Pocket PC revisions - the typical Microsoft approach is to add lots of new features but don't improve the old ones or fix the bugs that have been around for years.

After all, WM2003SE finally introduced landscape support, something that people had been wanting for ages - but it's still a pain to use as you have to go into a few menus to get to it (unless you give up a button mapping for it). The Palm T3 just has an icon on the menu bar that you tap to change the aspect. It's a logical approach that anyone who actually used the device regularly would suggest.

BTW, GPRS is certainly a basic feature on pretty much every phone I've owned for the past few years, including the original SPV - funnily enough people complained about the lack of a monitor back then, and we're still waiting!

I'm not implying that I'm not completely happy with all of the features that the SMT 5600 offers, but to say it lacks "basic" features of a "standard phone" is pretty lame and makes the proponents of that statement look rather clueless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm neither lame nor clueless - just expressing my opinions as I see them. You are perfectly entitled to do the same, but there's no need for personal insults...

[Guest Confucious]

Again, Have to agree with Chucky on this one except I've never owned a P900 (but have fot an A920 and an A1000) and i do use currency converters so I've bought Mxonverter which is far better than any built in converter.

If the P900 suited you so wellwhy change (or why not get a P910) . You will never please all the people all the time but the C500 is pretty bloody good. Sure minor improvements could be made (esp. in the area of BT) but it's still IMHO the best smartphone available by far.

If you think there is something better, then get it. We can't all think the same, if we did there would only be one phone available for everyone!

[Guest M@rtin]

The P900 was good but a little too big. I do agree that the C500 is the best smartphone to date, but my complaints aren't really about the handset, just the OS.