T-Mobile Unlimited GPRS - IT'S OFFICIAL!

[Guest Pagemakers]

What deals are in-store giving?

[Guest rizzles]

Not sure... dont think they have the 25% off though

[Guest Syphon Filter]

Not sure... dont think they have the 25% off though

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My local one is. At least thats what the sales assistant told me. She quoted £26.25 for Flext35.

[Guest shenson]

Just had the OK to mention the info I've received about this. It comes from someone working in T-mobile sales who has received an appropriate briefing. I'll summarise...

The "Pro" version is £8.50 not including VAT. It allows data access to anything but has a 2GB cap (fair use policy).

The "consumer" version which is the one mentioned here has no cap but has the other restrictions mentioned.

These are a bundles which can be added to anything except U-Fix and Mix-It. I specifically asked about SIM only and was told that yes it could be added to that too.

There will be two combined price plans which include it on Flext and Relax.

If this is all correct then I have to say it is an absolutely fantastic deal which totally blows away any offering from anyone else ;)

[Guest Pagemakers]

Great news. Should all of these plans be available from April 1?

Edited March 29, 2006 by Pagemakers

[Guest Syphon Filter]

The "Pro" version is £8.50 not including VAT. It allows data access to anything but has a 2GB cap (fair use policy).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Less than £10 a month for a 2GB FUP mobile data connection. Sounds like a steal to me. All this and the ability to use both GPRS and 3G.

So I want flext35 (including the 25% off ;) ) with the Pro data package and a Vario (with co-pilot would be cool actually). All in for £80 and a monthly rental of less than £40.

If T-Mobile can do this then I must be in mobile heaven...

[Guest rizzles]

Just had the OK to mention the info I've received about this. It comes from someone working in T-mobile sales who has received an appropriate briefing. I'll summarise...

The "Pro" version is £8.50 not including VAT. It allows data access to anything but has a 2GB cap (fair use policy).

The "consumer" version which is the one mentioned here has no cap but has the other restrictions mentioned.

These are a bundles which can be added to anything except U-Fix and Mix-It. I specifically asked about SIM only and was told that yes it could be added to that too.

There will be two combined price plans which include it on Flext and Relax.

If this is all correct then I have to say it is an absolutely fantastic deal which totally blows away any offering from anyone else  ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yipee.... all i need now is a small enough 3g device

[Guest ccsnet]

Fleabag - is there any one from Tmobile looking at this thred who make the T&C's.... I just dont get why 1gb of http is fine while 1gig streaming is not ( or less for that matter ). May be throttling it would be a better option - most dont go that high any way.

Its either a techincal thing or a way to reduce the actual 1gigs been used.

And where does it stop ? VNC, VPN heck Shock and Flash can all be as intensive.

Re modem access I still think this refers to connections to PSTN systems and I am not aware of any way to detect a laptop via a phone unless spyware is in the ROM of a phone.

Even if it is a PROXY server would get round that.

It would be intresting to hear their comments and perhaps try and change their mind maybe.

Terran

[Guest Fleabag]

Syphon: The coming soon list will generally be at least 2 months in advance, sometimes 1 month. I can tell you though the Vario II is nowhere to be found on the intranet at present, it has not even been announced. I only know about it because of MSMobiles. I will have a word tomorrow and see if I can actually acquire a release date.

travisb: There's a few with Co-Pilot left in stock. Why not nab one of those for the extra couple of bucks. ;)

Page & Rizz: You'll always find T's best direct deals on the website, they will generally have a few not available instore - you won't find a better deal instore I believe (obviously you might do via a 3rd party).

shen: That's pretty much what I've said through my posts. The FUP for the Pro plan is still TBC though...

ccsnet: Nobody is viewing this thread, or will indeed do so. Remember I'm here in an unofficial capacity, I'm only sharing information that is available on the intranet (e.g. you could call CS and get exactly the same answers), it's just I'm a little more clued up than your average CS bod (imho lol) and seemed to have the answers to some of your questions. I would recommend emailing [email protected] with any ideas or suggestions but I'll be honest I doubt they are going to change the plans due to a few suggestion emails, the way this is generally done is via months of market research in advance - I'm sure your opnions have been considered - but you can't please all the people all the time. But fire off an email, it will be read!

[Guest Pagemakers]

Fleabag - is there any one from Tmobile looking at this thred who make the T&C's.... I just dont get why 1gb of http is fine while 1gig streaming is not ( or less for that matter ). May be throttling it would be a better option - most dont go that high any way.

Its either a techincal thing or a way to reduce the actual 1gigs been used.

And where does it stop ? VNC, VPN heck Shock and Flash can all be as intensive.

Re modem access I still think this refers to connections to PSTN systems and I am not aware of any way to detect a laptop via a phone unless spyware is in the ROM of a phone.

Even if it is a PROXY server would get round that.

It would be intresting to hear their comments and perhaps try and change their mind maybe.

Terran

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree 100% with you. I think I'd rather take my chances at the £7.50 tarrif. Half an hours laptop browsing a few times a week is not going to hurt anybody.

Fleabag: Will all the new tarrifs you talk about be avail on April 1st?

Edited March 29, 2006 by Pagemakers

[Guest Fleabag]

They will be yes. With the addition of some new Off Peak plans as well.

[Guest Syphon Filter]

Syphon: The coming soon list will generally be at least 2 months in advance, sometimes 1 month. I can tell you though the Vario II is nowhere to be found on the intranet at present, it has not even been announced. I only know about it because of MSMobiles. I will have a word tomorrow and see if I can actually acquire a release date.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mate, I would MUCH appreciate that.

Cheers.

[Guest kam_]

I just dont get why 1gb of http is fine while 1gig streaming is not ( or less for that matter ).

The difference is that http uses a timeslot for a fraction of a second and then nothing for seconds while you read the page. Streaming requires a constant timeslot or timeslots.

1GB of http would be spread pretty evenly through the month and so at any given time in any given area you would be using very few timeslots per hour. 1GB of streaming would probably be condensed into a few hours in each day. During those hours you would be using 1 or more timeslots almost continuously. If everyone did that the network would get congested VERY qiuckly.

It's also the reason why they don't want laptop users. Downloading big files would also use timeslots continuously. Normall its not much of a problem because you pay per kb. You think twice about downloading big files but at this price mark people would get used to doing that.

There's a reason they specifically mention each of the things in the T&C.

[Guest Syphon Filter]

The difference is that http uses a timeslot for a fraction of a second and then nothing for seconds while you read the page.  Streaming requires a constant timeslot or timeslots. 

1GB of http would be spread pretty evenly through the month and so at any given time in any given area you would be using very few timeslots per hour.  1GB of streaming would probably be condensed into a few hours in each day.  During those hours you would be using 1 or more timeslots almost continuously.  If everyone did that the network would get congested VERY qiuckly.

It's also the reason why they don't want laptop users.  Downloading big files would also use timeslots continuously.  Normall its not much of a problem because you pay per kb.  You think twice about downloading big files but at this price mark people would get used to doing that.

There's a reason they specifically mention each of the things in the T&C.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, I get that. But then answer me this:

They have the "pro" version of the service for £8.50+VAT. Does this service then run on different infrastructure and servers to maintain a quality of service for all users on the Pro tariff? Or is it just an excuse to charge more for the same thing and just lift some restrictions, without any assured quality of service?

[Guest Pagemakers]

But If I am on a business tariff and I CAN do all these things I'm still going to be dialling into the SAME server as non-business customers. It makes no difference!

[Guest ccsnet]

But If I am on a business tariff and I CAN do all these things I'm still going to be dialling into the SAME server as non-business customers.  It makes no difference!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I follow the techy bit and woudl be happy to pay the extra £ just to stream if this was the case but as I understand it the Pro version suffers the same AUP ?

Terran

[Guest Pagemakers]

Yea I agree I would gladly pay the extra but the business tariff is capped and the personal one isn't. I just wonder who is getting the better deal.

[Guest rizzles]

Yea I agree I would gladly pay the extra but the business tariff is capped and the personal one isn't.  I just wonder who is getting the better deal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would say the buiness tariff... not much chance of anyone getting anywhere near 2gig just from browsing and emails

[Guest sjmdisney]

is there any deals going on (say i might be looking for to much) apart from the 25% off line rental on Flext for new subscribers, i.e. free for 3 months or anything

forever hopeful

SJMDISNEY

[Guest Pagemakers]

Here's a question for you.

Can I sign up for a new tmobile contract and get a get a Vario, but sign up for a 3G contract/sim card (so I can us it with my imate JasJar)?

[Guest shenson]

I follow the techy bit and woudl be happy to pay the extra £ just to stream if this was the case but as I understand it the Pro version suffers the same AUP ?

I was told that the Pro version only has the 2GB cap and none of the other restrictions.

The consumer version doesn't have the 2GB cap but has all the other restrictions which will limit the transfer in some but not all cases.

For example with mobile devices and 1GB+ memory cards downloading huge files would apparently be possible without the use of a laptop. I wouldn't count that as "file sharing" but maybe the small print of the T&C does.

As for streaming. On my home broadband connection I use the "listen again" facility on Radio 4 and Radio 7. It transfers ~20MB in an hour. That is nowhere near "full speed" for a 3G connection. It also buffers the data so it doesn't need to transfer continuously and it is less prone to drop outs.

I agree with the comments about a proxy on a mobile device making it pretty much impossible to tell if a laptop is being used. Especially if it uses tunelling and encrypted streams.

[Guest kam_]

Ok let me answer the last few questions in one go.

Forget thinking of it like an internet link. The physical bandwidth to the net is VERYYY cheap at the rates t-mobile will be using. Look at any colo, after about 400gb the price per gb become rediculously small or flat rate.

The problem with specifically GSM/GPRS, which uses TDMA, is that in any one area there are limited descrete amounts of bandwidth - timeslots (9600 to 28000 kbps depending on network and handset). You are assigned them dynamically but the maximum throughput in one cell is very limited.

As a result it works much like token ring. The slots are passed around very quickly between users. The more users the greater the time between when you get a slot - can tx/rx data.

If you're browsing the net, you won't notice a second or two delay - this can be because the timeslots are allocated to someone else. When you browse you don't notcie this.

With streaming its very different. You need a timeslot almost dedicated to you. As users increase everyone is asking for a timeslot more and more often. The time between when you're alocated timeslots increases until IE just times out waiting for the page.

This is the reality of how the technology works. So once you understand this think of it from a marketing point of view.

Give everyone unlimited GPRS for 7.50 on their handset. What can they do on a handset? The vast majority can browse the net - this means you can serve ALOT of users because you can delay timeslot alocation for long periods - http is tolerant to this.

What about users who want to transfer large files all the time - laptop users. You can't get around the way the technology works, so how can you limit the number of people who use this option alot of the time?

Simple - limit the max usage. Those users will then think twice about transfering huge amounts of data because its eating into their allowance. If they do transfer data it will be for small periods.

To protect the normal 7.50 user from doing this they add the FU policy. I'm sure the 7.50/8.50 price marks are there partialy to generate more revenue from the laptop users, but mainly to prevent confusion when users sign up for the packages.

Potentially the two types of user could be prioritised using access class (a field in the sim which can be updated with a sim update). But really they don't need to bother. All they want to do is restrict the amount of continuous data usage - the most effective way is a data limit.

Another way to look at it is imagine you have a 1mbit ADSL link at your house to t-mobile. It can sustain 50 people downloading constantly, after which browsing grinds to a halt - or it can sustain 1000 users browsing only.

If i cap the adsl at 2gb for the month, the amount of downloading will decrease alot because people won't download unecesarily - this increases the total http users your home link can serve.

Think of your house as one GSM cell (tower). T-mobile's bandwidth to the net is irelevant, whats relevant is your bandwidth to them.

UMTS (or 3g) is another case. Its tailored to higher bandwidth partly because of the modulation it uses, but also because the data units alocated to you are not discrete.

Using either of these plans on UMTS won't ring any bells at t-mobile and they just won't care unless you really take the piss!

I'm a bit tipsy right now, but i hope you kind of get what i'm saying. I VO'd and provisioned alot of T-mobile's stuff in sunbury, erith and barnsley a few years ago so i know all about this technology first hand.

Any questions feel free to ask!

[Guest shadamehr]

is there any deals going on (say i might be looking for to much) apart from the 25% off line rental on Flext for new subscribers, i.e. free for 3 months or anything

forever hopeful

SJMDISNEY

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My 'independant' franchised T-Mobile store in the Metrocentre, Gateshead, is not doing the 25% discounts that full T-Mobile dealerships are over in Newcastle in store.

instead, they are doing 3, 4 and 6 months free or half price line rental deals, like you seek.

BUT... these are by that horrible REDEMPTION method, rather than direct bill adjustments.

Personally, I much prefer the 25% for life, but it's your choice...

[Guest Pagemakers]

Ok let me answer the last few questions in one go.

What about users who want to transfer large files all the time - laptop users.  You can't get around the way the technology works, so how can you limit the number of people who use this option alot of the time?

Simple - limit the max usage.  Those users will then think twice about transfering huge amounts of data because its eating into their allowance.  If they do transfer data it will be for small periods.

I'm a bit tipsy right now, but i hope you kind of get what i'm saying.  I VO'd and provisioned alot of T-mobile's stuff in sunbury, erith and barnsley a few years ago so i know all about this technology first hand.

Any questions feel free to ask!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tipsy or not that's a great reply.

Listening to what you are saying could the personal service actually be faster than the business service then?

Edited March 29, 2006 by Pagemakers

[Guest shenson]

UMTS (or 3g) is another case.  Its tailored to higher bandwidth partly because of the modulation it uses, but also because the data units alocated to you are not discrete.

Using either of these plans on UMTS won't ring any bells at t-mobile and they just won't care unless you really take the piss!

I must admit that I'm not that familiar with the technology behind this. So you are saying the the "resources" used for 2G+GPRS at relatively low speed are greater than UMTS (3G) at much higher speed?

Well I'll be happy to help out T-mobile with 3G as soon as I can find the right deal. I wont be that disappointed by the higher speed either ;)