WARNING - Vodafone UK & sms theft.

[Guest davy]

Hi all.

Just a word of warning to steer you away from Vodafone UK.

I have been a Windows smart phone user since the start with Orange UK but decided to try the Vodafone 3G service.

I bought a Samsung z500v on E-bay and got a free sim from Vodafone.

Things were ok initially but disintegrated yesterday when I switched on my phone.

When I switched on I received 5 text messages, each of which deducted £1-50p from my PAYT account.

The text messages were from some outfit named Logogo -UK with the shortcode 84212.

As I had not ordered any ringtones or phone content from anyone I called Vodafone customer services.

They gave me telephone and E-mail contact details for the company which had sent the messages and taken the money from my account.

I telephoned this company (answer phone) and E-mailed them but have had no response.

Tonight I contacted Vodafone customer services again to request that they investigate this matter.

They advised me that they would not as it was a Company registered with them.

I find it beyond belief that Vodafone, when advised of a possible theft, refuse to investigate it.

Thoughts anyone?

Davy.

Edited April 1, 2006 by davy

[Guest fluffcat1]

Tried Ofcom? Trading standards? Usually companies like this back down and refund if you try hard enough.

Richard

[Guest rockykabir]

Yep...as long as you have some hard evidence, you should report them mofo's ;)

But in all seriousness, their action from all this is quite odd tbh...

[Guest Swampie]

Actually, their response seems normal for UK network operators.

Reverse SMS billing is a disaster waiting to happen. The networks are passing on the charges to you. They cannot just reverse the charge - the charge has to be reversed by the party who initiated the charge - ie. the company who sent the SMS.

They have done what (AFAIK) all network operators do and provide you with the details of the company who sent the messages, and therefore billed Vodafone (who then bill you).

Specifically, the advice from ICSTIS (the organisation who oversee and 'police' the premium rate telephone servers) is "If you are receiving chargeable text messages that you want to cancel, we would recommend that you get in touch with your mobile provider and ask them for details of the company operating this shortcode. When you have this information, contact that company and request to be unsubscribed from it. We are unable to do this on your behalf."

The network themselves aren't the ones to sort this for you.

Sending STOP or STOP ALL to the short code *should* stop it - but that doesn't help you reclaim the money from the company who sent the messages.

Again, it is not Vodafone who have wronged, and the premium rate regulator will also say the same.

[Guest davy]

Thanks for the replies.

I just find it amazing that they refuse to investigate it.

It would seem that anyone could order downloads using your Vodafone number, whether by mistake or deliberately, and Vodafone are happy to take your money regardless.

Ah well, at least I found out what they are like before committing to a contract with them.

davy.

[Guest davy]

Actually, their response seems normal for UK network operators.

Reverse SMS billing is a disaster waiting to happen.  The networks are passing on the charges to you.  They cannot just reverse the charge - the charge has to be reversed by the party who initiated the charge - ie. the company who sent the SMS.

They have done what (AFAIK) all network operators do and provide you with the details of the company who sent the messages, and therefore billed Vodafone (who then bill you).

Specifically, the advice from ICSTIS (the organisation who oversee and 'police' the premium rate telephone servers) is "If you are receiving chargeable text messages that you want to cancel, we would recommend that you get in touch with your mobile provider and ask them for details of the company operating this shortcode. When you have this information, contact that company and request to be unsubscribed from it. We are unable to do this on your behalf."

The network themselves aren't the ones to sort this for you.

Sending STOP or STOP ALL to the short code *should* stop it - but that doesn't help you reclaim the money from the company who sent the messages.

Again, it is not Vodafone who have wronged, and the premium rate regulator will also say the same.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The fact remains that I did not order anything from anyone.

I have advised Vodafone of this fact and they refuse to investigate the theft of monies from my account.

Are Vodafone not culpable if they have been advised that someone is stealing from my account and they are in effect condoning it by debiting the account?

davy.

[Guest Swampie]

It would seem that anyone could order downloads using your Vodafone number, whether by mistake or deliberately, and Vodafone are happy to take your money regardless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I said it was a disaster waiting to happen. ;)

AFAIK Vodafone should be able to confim if you've sent texts to this number. If they confirm you haven't then you're in a good posistion.

Try to contact the SMS company again next week (a few times) and if you're still having problems give ICSTIS a call. They're the regulator and explain you've been unable to contact the SMS company and you're having no assistance from Vodafone. They might be able to help - afterall, there the ones to complain to!

This is far from uncommon (on all networks) but normally the SMS company do refund the charges and all is sorted (until it happens to the next guy!). Keep trying to call them.

Apparently T-Mobile can, at your requet, block all premium rate SMS (or is it just reverse billed SMS) - whichever it is, they can stop this happening if you ask them to block them for you. Which reminds me - I should ask about this to be done on my account.

[Guest Disco Stu]

Tonight I contacted Vodafone customer services again to request that they investigate this matter.

They advised me that they would not as it was a Company registered with them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that Vodafone wouldn't even tell you what type of download this company have charged you for ? Is there no way of finding out how you are supposed to have subscribed to this service ?

Do you have anything more to go on than "Logogo -UK" ? I'd be Googling for an alternative email address / phone number and an actual office location.

[Guest Disco Stu]

Do any of these names mean anything to you ?

http://www.logogo.com/links/

Assuming not, I would go back to Voda CS or try your local Trading Standards office for advice.

[Guest davy]

They couldn't provvide a postal address.

They mentioned Sony Ericsson logo and ringtones.

I didn't ask what type of download it was or how I am supposed to have subscribed.

They just weren't interested.

I have tried googling with no joy.

davy.

[Guest Disco Stu]

Yeah, Googling didn't help much. Looks like the main company might be Norwegian but I get the impression that it's a franchise set-up and your target could be anywhere. Seems to be a wap service so I don't suppose Vodafone can even identify the download like they could if the ringtone/background was delivered by SMS.

Look up Trading Standards in your local phone book. They can give you free advice and are usually interested in collecting complaints of this nature. Given the amount you lost though I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[Guest davy]

Disco Stu,

thanks for the replies.

TBH the lost money doesn't bother me that much. I put a tenner on the sim to evaluate the Vodafone service. Had the service been half decent I was considering getting a contract phone from them. I would have used the money anyway and now know not to get a contract phone from Vodafone.

Over at mobiholics a poster has responded that Cingular actually try to assist there customers in matters like this. Different country I know, but I would like to think that the other UK operators would help their customers to recover money stolen from their accounts.

It is Vodafone's flat refusal to help that is annoying.

Any employees of Orange, 02, T-mobile, 3 or Virgin care to comment on how their Company deals with such matters?

davy.

[Guest davy]

I have edited the title as the thread over at mobiholics has been edited by a mod who believes that stating Vodafone condone theft is slanderous.

I do not believe any of my comments to be slanderous but respect the rights of the mods to mod.

Just so we are crystal clear I have advised Vodafone of a theft from my account. They have refused to investigate it. It is my opinion that there are thereby effectively condoning the theft.

If someone illegaly removed money from my bank account, credit card, etc the issuing Company (and probably the Police) would investigate the matter. IT IS THEFT.

Perhaps my understanding of the word condone is wrong.

davy.

[Guest fraser]

I think a few posters suggested trying Trading Standards, but it seems you haven't. IMHO, that is the ONLY chance of you sorting this. Vodaphone don't care for you, however Trading Standards can rip them a new arsehole if they are found to be in the wrong. Another option would be Oftel, or whatever they are called now.

You can do nothing about this, trust me. You need to find those who can help you. Posting on a web board isn't going to make any difference, nor will it encourge folk not to use vodaphone.

[Guest Disco Stu]

In today's Guardian : http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1746883,00.html

When I contact the premium-rate regulator Icstis, it reckons that it's technically impossible to receive text messages without signing up, albeit unwittingly, to a service. It investigates, however, and a month later has slapped a £10,000 fine on Mobile 365, the company that provided the line for TGMOM,

"The lady has been given unfortunate and inaccurate advice," says a spokesman for Vodophone. "We run a free service called U-spam where users can send unsolicited spam messages to form a database and, if the same messages keep cropping up we will take it seriously."

If you know you have been conned, contact Icstis on 0800 500 212 or via its website: www.icstis.org.uk.

[Guest davy]

Disco Stu,

thanks for the info,

I have had confirmation from Voda that I have not sent any texts since activating my sim.

Unfortuntely the shortcode company are ignoring my e-mails and phone calls.

I have left them a recorded message tonight advising them to contact me within 24 hrs. If they don't I will pass a complaint to Icstis and Ofcom.

Cheers,

davy.

[Guest fraser]

Davy, I'd make the complaint anyway. I'd imagine that there are several companies existing solely off sending unsolicitated messages. Nothing about it will be done until folk start reporting them. Then, groups like www.icstis.org.uk (good info Stu), can keep a track of who sends the most. Without proof that they are sending out lots of spam "accidentally", no one will notice and folk who aren't willing to chase it up will be ripped off.

[Guest conan_troutman]

Davy, I'd make the complaint anyway. I'd imagine that there are several companies existing solely off sending unsolicitated messages. Nothing about it will be done until folk start reporting them. Then, groups like www.icstis.org.uk (good info Stu), can keep a track of who sends the most. Without proof that they are sending out lots of spam "accidentally", no one will notice and folk who aren't willing to chase it up will be ripped off.

you bought the phone off of ebay with the sim card correct well i think the owner did a number on you down loaded a load stuff he wanted at premium rate signning you up for there contractual agreement of three SMS each monthe payable at

[Guest peekie]

Its probably better if you buy a phone from ebay to tell the seller you dont want the simcard only the phone they are easy to get loose from any mobile shop and atleast then you know that knowone has added any unwanted extras to the simcard :)

[Guest davy]

The sim was new from Vodafone (one of the free sim deals which pop up on there website from time to time).

On the plus side I have got a full refund from Logogo.

Still not happy with the level of support from Voda but the common concensus seems to be that this is the norm from all the networks in regards to these matters :) .

I don't see Ofcom or whoever pursuing any complaint I should make seriously now that I have got my money refunded.

Thanks for reading/replying.

davy.