Using Flight Mode - the rules, anyone?

[Guest daveeeeeed]

Hey guys,

I've got an SPV C500 and a Nokia N70. Both have 'flight mode' or equivalent (Symbian: 'Radio off'). I have a long-haul flight to take with British Airways next week and have just knackered my iPod, so am planning to fill my 1GB miniSD card with enough music to last the 6 hours.

Am I likely to get thrown off the flight if I even try to use my mobile phone as an MP3 player in flight mode? My suspicion is that cabin staff are likely to be totally ignorant of the fact that a mobile phone can operate without receiving or transmitting radio signals (not that a fully functioning phone can interfere with an aircraft's systems anyway).

Does anyone know the airlines' own rules over this? Any positive experiences or horror stories about trying to use your smartphone for flight-mode multimedia or as an organiser?

Thanks,

David

[Guest Disco Stu]

I'm not posh enough to fly with BA but I did use my Magician in flight mode as an MP3 player on an Airtours flight to Cancun.

The pre-flight announcements specified that phones could not be switched on, even if in flight mode, but I simply kept my phone out of sight. Although the earphones and lead were seen by the stewardesses I was never challenged on either flight to verify the device I was using.

Whether or not aircraft systems are affected I couldn't say, although I suspect the rule has more to do with selling headphones. I'm going to get flamed for this, aren't I...... ;)

[Guest bjde0b]

#1. Airlines use different frequencies than cell phones for communication so they will never be able to tell through their headsets if your cell phone is on.

#2. You are not breaking any laws if your cell phone is not transmitting a signal.

I watch movies on mine with it in plain sight and nobody has ever questioned me because it really isn't causing a problem. One time I even forgot to turn it to flight mode and I got a text message.

[Guest slinkey]

Hi buddy,

the rules are, unfortunately, whatever the airline says.

In flight mode the phone shouldn't interfere with any navigational/ communication systems simply because it isn't receiving or transmitting any signal.

HOWEVER, the likelihood is that the air steward/stewardess will tell you to turn it off anyway. it's unlikely they're

in the know about the particulars of smart phones (unless they trawl sites like MoDoCo like we do) and any attempt at telling them why your phone isn't transmitting is a waste of time because they don't care (and why should they?) they're not going to check 300 passengers' mobile phones to see if they're smartphones in flight mode-so they'll probably get you to turn it off -especially seeing how nervous people are getting about air flight these days-you'll get other passengers whinging about you using it too. just don't get annoyed with them-if you can help it--that's life.

[Guest daveeeeeed]

Hi buddy,

the rules are, unfortunately, whatever the airline says.

In flight mode the phone shouldn't interfere with any navigational/ communication systems simply because it isn't receiving or transmitting any signal.

HOWEVER, the likelihood is that the air steward/stewardess will tell you to turn it off anyway. it's unlikely they're

in the know about the particulars of smart phones (unless they trawl sites like MoDoCo like we do) and any attempt at telling them why your phone isn't transmitting is a waste of time because they don't care (and why should they?) they're not going to check 300 passengers' mobile phones to see if they're smartphones in flight mode-so they'll probably get you to turn it off -especially seeing how nervous people are getting about air flight these days-you'll get other passengers whinging about you using it too. just don't get annoyed with them-if you can help it--that's life.

Cheers slinkey - I reckon the same as you. Its a sorry state of affairs, but I may just have to buy that iPod Nano after all...

[Guest jimbouk]

#1. Airlines use different frequencies than cell phones for communication so they will never be able to tell through their headsets if your cell phone is on.

It's got nothing to do with the phone's frequency interfering with the radio frequencies used by the aircrew!

The rules are there a) due to the real (but minor) risk of the phones radio waves interfering with the electronics and avionics, ;) due to the fact that a cellphone at 30,000 feet can reach hundreds of cells at the same time and clog up the cellphone network for those of us at ground level and c) so the airlines can try to make money with their airphone systems.

There are moves afoot to set up special cells (using the Aircell system where vertical facing antennas provide a cellphone service for flyers (It's currently used by corporate jets in some countries and may be set up to work with normal cellphones).

Most airlines are now aware of the flight mode option on smartphones and as long as you dont get an idiot cabin crew director, you will be ok.

[Guest daveeeeeed]

Ok chaps and chappettes,

Checking in from the Middle East (here with work) and dug out the following useful information from BA's in flight "High Life" magazine to wrap this up once and for all:

"Devices that have a 'flight mode' or 'flight safe' setting (eg: some Smartphones and the BlackBerry handheld) may be used in flight, provided the flight-safe mode is enabled before the engines start running. These devices must be switched off during take-off, approach and landing"

The rules also allow Bluetooth devices (that adhere to the Bluetooth standard), but dont allow WiFi use on BA - pretty pointless without in flight internet anyway (as provided on Lufthansa, for example).

So there you go - means I don't have to waste money buying an iPod anyway!

[Guest Pagemakers]

I work for an airline and you can not use mobiles phones on our flight even in flight safe mode. As jimbouk says, the rules are different for every airline about when you can use your phone and what type of phone you can use.

bjde0b - sorry but you are wrong. The Flight Deck can sometimes tell if your phone is on because we can hears the beeps in our headsets. Re your second point you are breaking the Air navigation Order if you do not comply with the instructions given to you by the flight crew - whatever that instruction may be.

Finally bmi and some other bods who I can't remember at the moment are going to be trialling the use of mobile phones during their flights later this year.

Edited April 27, 2006 by Pagemakers

[Guest lapimate]

... Does anyone know the airlines' own rules over this? ...

Here are the Air New Zealand rules (concatenate the two lines below):

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/travelinfo/

ontheplane/electronicequipment/default.htm#phone

[Guest beauchambers]

Here are the Air New Zealand rules (concatenate the two lines below):

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/travelinfo/

ontheplane/electronicequipment/default.htm#phone

I used my C550 on a BA flight to orlando and used the mp3 player and played jawbreaker all the way

[Guest kam_]

I fly BA ALOT! Over the last 6 months they changed their inflight video from the stupid one with the guy catching the wine bottle falling out of the overhead cabin to the animated one with SUPER thin cartoon people.

In the new video and anouncements that go with it (as the crew shows u how to buckle and unbuckle etc) it now says all equipment should be switched of OR switched to flight safe mode.

I asked an atendant and they said yes, its fine to have it in flight mode.

On a seperate note, i skimmed through the topic and read some wierd explanations for why phones are not allowed. Its similar to hospitals - 3 reasons.

1) they want to make money by forcing u to use their expensive in house payphones (on the plane at 10$/min or in the hospital buying some custom phonecard)

2) they don't want people disturbed by people on the phone all the time (on the plane right upto take off and right before landing, and in hospitals all the time)

3) Technical nterferance reasons...

Cellphones operate at 850,900,1800 or 1900 Mhz. these are all way above any frequencies you would expect to find in a hospital, and way outside any frequencies you would find on a plane, or used in their compunication systems.

However, the GSM signals are coupled onto outputs of single ended amplifiers, and the burst nature of GSM causes a harmonic at 218Hz. This is right inside the hearing spectrum, and harmonics will go up all the way into the Khz range (halfing in amplitude each time of course). This causes significant problems in sensors often found in ICU's in hospitals. Also alot of electronics equipment uses SE amplifiers for various purposes.

In theory it could be a serious problem. Its the same blurp blurp noise u hear on your car stereo when the phone is about to ring!

In reality tho, ICU equipment uses differencial amplifiers because the signal can be so weak that it would probably be lost or corupted by background noise anyway. This is why alot of US hospitals are now removing this no cellphone policy everywhere EXCEPT ICU units (just in case there is older equipment still in use).

Airlines are introducing WiFi on planes, which is smack bang in the same spectrum - Ghz, yet they refuse to allow cellphones to be used. I imagine their reasons are 1 and 2 above. I can agree with 2) - its hard enough for them to control people on planes these days as it is.

[Guest Pagemakers]

Kam - Sorry I disagree.

1) Incorrect. Most UK carriers do not have in-flight phones anyway.

2) Very unlikely.

3) Our manuals for Airbus state 'some' electronic devices can interfere with aircraft systems. And because the manufacturer says this, the airlines will comply to cover themselves. It's moshing more complicated or sinister than that.

As a matter of interest unless the airline fit some sort of relaying technology (as bmi are doing this year) your phone will not get a signal above about 4,000ft anyway which is considerably lower than an aircraft flies at.

This article form airbus discusses wireless and the introduction of mobile phones operations into their aircraft later this year.

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre/press...15_05_WAEA.html

Edited May 11, 2006 by Pagemakers

[Guest kam_]

Well yes you're right, you won't get a GSM signal way up there anyway, but that wasn't my point.

I agree they do it partly to cover themselves because the equipment manufacturers state that, to cover themselves! BUT new guidelines for electronics means equipment has to be able to handle such interferance. Trust me i know i design electronics for a living.

For hospitals 1,2,3 is actually most of the reason. Some studies in the US have proven 3) doesn't hold anymore and so they are under pressure to allow cellphone use as most hospitals have francised out their 'entertainment systems' at bedside. Those are obviously rediculously expensive, often not alowing incoming calls, and forcing u to buy credits on a proprietry card which only works on that system.

For planes, 1) is less of the issue on most airlines, but i have to say on alot of transatlantic it makes them ALOT of money. I've used those phone many times - when you're upto 8 hours from a destination and a normal phone, it can be more cost efective to spend the money and get your message through that business day.

2) is obviously a part reason. Why else wouldn't they allow walkmans etc on at take off and landing? Partly safety, and partly managability.

3) as i say is no longer a reality in modern electronics, and thats why airlines are putting in WiFi in planes!

The point tho i was trying to make is, a few years ago you would have been practically arested if you were flaunting your mobile phone around during the flight, today you can put it into flight mode and they don't say anything. If it were that much of an issue they wouldn't take the chance of letting you use flight mode, just in case u got it wrong, or pretended it was in flight mode. These atendants won't know how the function works on every model.

Even if your phone doesn't work all the way up there, some people without flight mode may want to check something on their phone like their schedule. The point is, its a little more aceptable these days and they won't throw you off the plane (while its in the air lol) because they know its not exactly going to crash the plane.

Really its partly what i know, and mostly a guestimate on how i think things are with planes. You may be right, it may all be down to them being covered by insurance. I know more concretly about the situation with hospitals tho as i had some customers who wanted scopes for that market.

Edited May 11, 2006 by kam_

[Guest xda_gangsta]

even putting flight mode on makes people nervous in a flight, plus theres no service ;)