Orange has GOT to be kidding me...

[Guest afhstingray]

My m5000 was overheating, so they sent me a replacement

with a dead pixel. (white all the time)

now they're telling me, oh its within "normal manufacturing limits" and refusing to replace it. this is ridiculous. it sticks out like a sore thumb during powerpoint presentations and really annoying me.

what can i do? i tried bugging them again but i think im going to get the same answer.....and emailing the executive office takes a bit of time.....

what are my other options/rights??

[Guest awarner (MVP)]

Normally a single dead pixel does not warrant an exchange, there is normally a percentage of dead pixels required before a screen can be classed as faulty. Unfortunately it's the nature of LCD technology, but it's still worth pestering them over it, but don't hold your breath.

As for overheating, was this happening when you were charging the battery? as it can happen but is not an actual fault as such.

[Guest afhstingray]

it wasnt just overheating, it was in my pocket as usual, i put my hand in the pocket, realize the phone is boiling, take it out and its completely dead, with a red led showing. no response with reset, removal of battery, charging without battery, or replacing with another battery.

a good thump fixed it, but it happened a second time recently. thus i dint want to risk it catching fire in my pants lol and called orange. they then sent me this unit with the dead pixels

what happend to providing a satisfactory good????

[Guest RobertCeuppens]

Stories like this make more than happy that I'm leaving Orange after 12 years ;)

Edited May 10, 2006 by RobertCeuppens

[Guest sporkguy]

what happend to providing a satisfactory good????

As long as it'll still perform the basic function of making a phonecall.. then Orange will happily sit on their arses and do nowt for you.

"Your pants are on fire sir?, Maybe I can interest you in our new Orange Health Insurance..only covers accidental death though"

[Guest drblow]

I don't know if this will help, but I had a couple of smartphones replaced immediately upon discovery of a dead pixel - without question from CS as their diagnostics came back telling them to replace the handset. Do you have Orange care insurance? I think that is a factor in their willingness to replace.

[Guest afhstingray]

yep i do have orange care...

they say their technical team says that on a phone with a screen this big its within normal

i can tell you...if dead pixels like this were "within normal" HTC wouldnt sell any phones!!!!!

i wonder if those people themselves at orange would use a phone with dead pixels knowing they paid for it with their own money

Edited May 10, 2006 by afhstingray

[Guest peekie]

Dead pixals are a pain . sadly not only a smartphone problem , same goes for the new hd tv's , laptops , try to take them back and you get no help ;)

[Guest kam_]

I hate when they do crap like this.. Simply develop a 'new' fault with it - something hard to verify, like it keeps loosing registration with the network intermitantly through the day.. To 'fake' the records on their side, pull the battery out a few times during the day. DONT turn it off first, or it will send a de-registration to the network. If you pull the battery it'll just dissapear off their network after the search period expires.

Then bitch like hell that you have to wait now for them to send u another phone.. 'dont any of these phones work'. That should deflect the atention from the 'fault' you've developed and hopefully the new one won't have a dead pixel! or some other fault lol.

[Guest Dr Who]

The fact you managed to replace it for overheating suggests it is a known fault and on their 'diagnostics' list. You could claim the pixel is in the dead centre of the screen - normally a laptop isn't considered faulty unless it has more than 6 (!) dead pixels OR if one of them is in the very centre. I have had a nightmare trying to get a phone replaced that was crashing constantly, even after hard resets. Over 3 months I must have spoken to CS about 30 times and nearly every time they told me to 'hard reset'. This is the main reason I am looking forward to leaving Orange soon!

[Guest nevawlkalone]

I hate when they do crap like this.. Simply develop a 'new' fault with it - something hard to verify, like it keeps loosing registration with the network intermitantly through the day.. To 'fake' the records on their side, pull the battery out a few times during the day. DONT turn it off first, or it will send a de-registration to the network. If you pull the battery it'll just dissapear off their network after the search period expires.

Then bitch like hell that you have to wait now for them to send u another phone.. 'dont any of these phones work'. That should deflect the atention from the 'fault' you've developed and hopefully the new one won't have a dead pixel! or some other fault lol.

Hahaha that sounds like a good plan....lol ;)

Also tell them there a crap network (possibly not that blunt mind..) and that your taking your custom somewhere else....this will prove one of two things....

ONE - They will put u through to a disconnections center who will do everythin they can to keep you

OR

TWO - They will put u through to a disconnections center who will disconnect you....

Either way its win win, number one u get a new phone....number two...u get the samew phone on a bdtter network!

Edited May 11, 2006 by nevawlkalone

[Guest fraser]

Yeah, you should get a new one if you push hard enough. The law says nothing about "dead pixels", so ANYTHING orange state about it being acceptable or within normal limits is purely their own internal thoughts and has zero basis in law. State that you use it for presentations to important clients and that "it is not fit for the purpose for which it was sold". It's all down the ever magic phrase "your statatory rights are not affected". Learn those rights! ;)

I used to work for a laptop manfacturer (one of the biggest), approx 8 years ago. Back then, 3 pixels were the norm for a return but you could always replace on one dead one if the customer tried hard enough. In my time there I was looking after the quality of the finished product and I was pretty close to the floor in terms of seeing what caused DOA units, returns and normal manufacturing defects. Dead pixels were really really rare. It's not something that happens a lot, so it should not be acceptible on delivery.

Think of it in comparison to other goods. Would you return a brandnew car that had chipped paintwork before it left the shop floor? Would you return a printer that constantly missed the same area out, or hand bands accross it? Of course you would. And as the LCD is the primary user interface on the device, you'll want perfection. A dead pixel is like a grubby mark on a TV screen it will always attract the eye and detract from the service you are paying for.

[Guest nevawlkalone]

Yeah, you should get a new one if you push hard enough. The law says nothing about "dead pixels", so ANYTHING orange state about it being acceptable or within normal limits is purely their own internal thoughts and has zero basis in law.

Oh crud he's goin legal again lol ;) sorry man couldnt help it....think we should get fluff cat in on this? :P

The product arrived in an unsatisfactory state there fore they *should* replace as you paid for a perfect item therefore it should arrive perfect...sumat along those lines ne hu!

[Guest LSmith4285]

Now yes I'd be gutted if my MDAC2 has a deal pixel and I'd be kicking up a fuss.

However dead pixels do seem to be accepted with TFTs etc. Users will only get a replacement with more than 5 dead pixels on a TFT. Also I know at first (I don't know if this has changed) Sony would only replace a PSP with more than 5 dead pixels, now a LCD on a PSP is a heck of a lot more important than on a PPC so I can imagine they won't replace it.

If it was me i'd kick up hell and see what I could do tho.

[Guest 25419]

i used to work for a large computer store retailer in the uk, and we could not return monitors with 'a' dead pixel. like the person said before me, less than five is deemed as an 'acceptable' amount.

all though i don't agree with it, and would kick off big style if it happened to me, it is accepted among retailers as the 'norm', wether that be a law or a rule set by retailers....

[Guest afhstingray]

hmm....i think i have no other choice than to try emailing the executive office

any advice on what i should put in the letter to make them "worry" a bit?

cheers for all the help so far!

[Guest nevawlkalone]

hmm....i think i have no other choice than to try emailing the executive office

any advice on what i should put in the letter to make them "worry" a bit?

cheers for all the help so far!

Same as before..threghten to leave!

Or if your feeling really extreme a law suit...unsatisfactory products!

Tiz all i can suggest!Purely because the first one woked for me!

M

[Guest fraser]

Users who aren't familiar with the law will only get a replacement with more than 5 dead pixels on a TFT.

There ya go, corrected that for ya. (bold bit).

One word: "Trading Standards" ;) . Get your money back. ;)

They aren't going to give you a replacement just because you asked. That's not very compatible with the idea of making a profit. A shop will always try and fob off a waranty claim if they have a chance to do so. You gotta fight for your right (or so the song says).

any advice on what i should put in the letter to make them "worry" a bit?

I already said: "It's not fit for the purpose for which it was sold". That's all there is to it. Sale of Goods Act, google it.

Like the person said before me, less than five is deemed as an 'acceptable' amount.

By whom, and are they in position to make that claim, i.e. a judge or a lawmaker? :P Remember the golden words ON ALL CONTRACTS:

Your statatory rights are not affected

They don't print it because they want to you know! It's because they have to, by law.

[Guest LSmith4285]

I already said: "It's not fit for the purpose for which it was sold". That's all there is to it. Sale of Goods Act, google it.

It is fit for purpose tho, it was sold to make calls, text, e-mail, internet, play videos and music. It does ALL of these features. A dead pixel does not render this unit useless. Therefore you'd have a hard time convincing a judge otherwise.

Fit for purpose is an open term and to be honest the product is perfectly fit for purpose, it's annoying but it doesn't get in the way of anything the device was sold for.

Edited May 18, 2006 by LSmith4285

[Guest mykiemm]

A shop will always try and fob off a waranty claim if they have a chance to do so. You gotta fight for your right (or so the song says).

Thats because the retailer has to replace the product OR facilitate repair. The definition of facilitating repair includes giving the customer details of where they can get it repaired.

Its annoying but its a result of the manufacturing process that means there is always the chance of dead pixels, a sizable proportion of LCD screens made (especially larger ones) are rejected after production due to dead pixels. But most companies (as has been said earlier) will replace the product if its got 1 dead pixel in the central area of the screen or 4 to 7 in the outer area's of the screen.

Your best bet is just to call back and say it wont turn on, say youve tried it with another battery and another charger and it still wont work. If you have care they should send you a new one within 24 hours.

Edited May 19, 2006 by mykiemm

[Guest LSmith4285]

Your best bet is just to call back and say it wont turn on, say youve tried it with another battery and another charger and it still wont work. If you have care they should send you a new one within 24 hours.

I wouldn't advise this as it