SNES Emulators and Sound

[Guest HeXeDOSOK]

I thought I would post this in a new thread since it really isn't related to 1 specific emulator.

I am seeing several threads with MANY different experiences with these SNES emulators, which all seem to revolve around a form of pocket snes. Masterall's, Parallax's, and the original version of pocket snes. I'm seeing experiences ranging from:

1) I can't load a game at all, blank screen..etc..etc.

2) It is too slow, but not as bad (with sound off, overclocked, etc..etc)

3) It's too fast, even with sound

4) It runs perfect, even with 16 bit Sound

So I'm pretty sure it all depends on if this is optimized for the cpu and hardware you currently have. I currently have a HTC Mogul (PPC-6800) with the following specs:

Operating System: Windows Mobile 6 Professional

Processor: QUALCOMM® MSM7500, 400MHz

Internal Memory: 256 MB ROM, 64 MB RAM

Display: 2.8" QVGA TFT LCD, 240x320 64k-color touch screen

The processor is a dual core as well. One core is 133MHz for phone operation, and the 400MHz for Windows. I figured the 400MHz should be more than enough to run SNES games since many people are using 250MHz and running fine. When I turn sound off, my games run "OK". Certainly not as well as Pocket Nester Plus with sound. when I run games with sound, the game either freezes up and studders, or the game runs relatively smooth with weird devil sounds (skippy sound with strange sounds that were not even CLOSE to the original music or sounds).

What I think may be going on is this processor is pretty new, and these applications may not be optimized to run well on this processor.

It would bee nice to have people comment on what type of device they own (including processor speed), what emulators they have tried, and what type of experience they have had on each. It would also be nice if someone like Masterall could come in here and comment on this, since him or anyone like him would probably know.

And does anyone think we will have more mature emulators out in the future that will make SNES gaming on a device like mine as smooth as it is on a PC?

Thanks in advance for everyone's help.

Edited July 23, 2007 by HeXeDOSOK

[Guest Dusk Knight]

I have a smartphone and Masterall's port seems to be the best emulator for it. I haven't tried it but I think there may be one other snes emu that works with smartphone (SmartSnes?).

Here are my phone's specs:

Motorola Q

Operating System: Windows Mobile 5.0

Processor: Intel XScale PXA272 312 MHz processor

Memory: 64 MB RAM, 64 MB device storage, 2 GB storage card

Display: 16-bit color 320 x 240 TFT display (QVGA landscape)

As far as sound is concerned, it drains too much performance and doesn't sound good enough to be worth it, so I always have it off. I usually use auto-frameskip. Not silky-smooth but very playable for RPGs. I usually avoid faster paced games mainly because it's usually impossible to get a comfortable control scheme for them (at least on my device).

The only game I've played all the way through is Civilization. Still very addictive even though it's probably the most primitive incarnation of the game. Other games I've tried that seem to be working reasonably well are Chrono Trigger, EarthBound, and Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI. None of the Mario or Kirby games I tried would load though. I'll try some more games and maybe SmartSnes when my SCUMM mania dies down a bit.

[Guest HeXeDOSOK]

I have a smartphone and Masterall's port seems to be the best emulator for it. I haven't tried it but I think there may be one other snes emu that works with smartphone (SmartSnes?).

Here are my phone's specs:

Motorola Q

Operating System: Windows Mobile 5.0

Processor: Intel XScale PXA272 312 MHz processor

Memory: 64 MB RAM, 64 MB device storage, 2 GB storage card

Display: 16-bit color 320 x 240 TFT display (QVGA landscape)

As far as sound is concerned, it drains too much performance and doesn't sound good enough to be worth it, so I always have it off. I usually use auto-frameskip. Not silky-smooth but very playable for RPGs. I usually avoid faster paced games mainly because it's usually impossible to get a comfortable control scheme for them (at least on my device).

The only game I've played all the way through is Civilization. Still very addictive even though it's probably the most primitive incarnation of the game. Other games I've tried that seem to be working reasonably well are Chrono Trigger, EarthBound, and Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI. None of the Mario or Kirby games I tried would load though. I'll try some more games and maybe SmartSnes when my SCUMM mania dies down a bit.

Thanks for the response. Good to see other people's experiences. My problem is that I cannot live without sound. To a degree, alot of the nostalgia comes from the sound effects and the music.

Example: Here are some of my favs

Mario World: I remember hearing the amazing multi track music thinking.. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE SOUND. Today, they are obviously very primative, but I can hear the "echo" sounds in my head thinking about the time I thought "Holy crap!! an echo!!"

Shadowrun: Still one of my favorite cyberpunk rpg's of all time. The sounds effects in that game, and the high tempo music in battles is what I am used to. If I have to play that in silence, it just wouldn't be the same.

The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past: Running this game without sound is about as criminal as running the original "Legend of Zelda" on the NES without sound. This game set another standard in the "Zelda" franchise for music and sound effects.

Anyways.. sorry for the long rant, maybe I am just picky. But I could not imagine playing some of these hige titles without sound. There HAS to be a way that a 400MHz processor could run SNES games with sound at an acceptable rate. Even with a little frame skip.

[Guest nothin]

all i can see is ...hm ignorance.

you want 0 FS snes emu with sound?!!?

try FS=3 and maybe...maybe on your 400 mhz you will be happy..

time to get real or DECENT machine.

(mikeeey PM me before ban, plz...no frameskip, rofl..what are they talkin bout..lol...).

Edited July 24, 2007 by nothin

[Guest HeXeDOSOK]

all i can see is ...hm ignorance.

you want 0 FS snes emu with sound?!!?

try FS=3 and maybe...maybe on your 400 mhz you will be happy..

time to get real or DECENT machine.

(mikeeey PM me before ban, plz...no frameskip, rofl..what are they talkin bout..lol...).

don't be a prick. You obviously didn't read a damn thing I was saying.

all i can see is ...hm ignorance.

you want 0 FS snes emu with sound?!!?

I never said about "0 FS". Maybe you should read it over again and use your brain to process those things called letters. I specifically said "There HAS to be a way that a 400MHz processor could run SNES games with sound at an acceptable rate. Even with a little frame skip."

try FS=3 and maybe...maybe on your 400 mhz you will be happy..

If you notiiced as well, I also said "when I run games with sound, the game either freezes up and studders, or the game runs relatively smooth with weird devil sounds" Freezing up is not something related to frame skip, and most of the games I play will, as I said, "runs relatively smooth with weird devil sounds". Now that I have enabled a frameskip of "1", I'm running at full game speed (compared side by side to emulating on my pc). funny how I don't have to run on frame skip of "3" like you are claiming.

(mikeeey PM me before ban, plz...no frameskip, rofl..what are they talkin bout..lol...).

lolz.. lmao..pwnzoredezzz.. bwahaha!! rofl.. :) Yeah buddy, go ahead and suck up to the admins. You soundz lik teh superest of coolest of L337 3Mu|_4T()|2 haxor god's EVAR! Sounds pretty stupid when you try to look like the cool guy in front of the mods when you don't have your info straight huh?

Right now I am using Masterall's 1.52 SNES, and I currently have frameskip at 1, with 16 bit sound and quality slider turned up. I am currently getting original game speed on most games I am playing. the problem is the sound is not correct. Some times, the sounds are correct, but then maybe a specific song comes in and sounds NOTHING like the original. It's like a crackling sound, almost like it is trying to play the sound and vomit at the same time.

what I would like, is people's experiences. Not jerk comments. I'd like to know how the sound is for people in Zelda, Shadowrun, MarioWorld, and other popular games. What sound setting, what display setting, device, etc..etc..

[Guest PolloLoco]

SNES emulation for a portable has always been imperfect. I'm surprised it's not playing better on your mogul (6800). I'm running a 6700 overclocked to 624mhz. I play it in landscape mode at 100% size - and a frameskip of 1.

I play games with sound - and most play good or great. I haven't been using Masterall's emulator because it's not the best, imo. I've been running SNOP's Pocket SNES - you can find the link elsewhere on this forum if you look.

[Guest HeXeDOSOK]

SNES emulation for a portable has always been imperfect. I'm surprised it's not playing better on your mogul (6800). I'm running a 6700 overclocked to 624mhz. I play it in landscape mode at 100% size - and a frameskip of 1.

I play games with sound - and most play good or great. I haven't been using Masterall's emulator because it's not the best, imo. I've been running SNOP's Pocket SNES - you can find the link elsewhere on this forum if you look.

Thanks for the info! I was not aware of a SNOP Pocket SNES, I think I'll give it a try. Maybe I should also try overclocking too. I wonder what type of overclock I can achieve with this thing. It has the exact same specs as the Kaiser, but half the ram. I was reading that the processor this thing has should be the equivelent to a 550MHz Intel, but I'm not sure how reliable that comment is.

I think the Mogul has a very good graphic chipset. While that really makes no difference with an unoptimized emulator, what are the possibilities that emulator coders will take advantage of the hardware acceleration?

My SPD Benchmark results are as follows:

Spb Benchmark index 311

CPU index 1611

File system index 123

Graphics index 4445

[Guest HeXeDOSOK]

Thanks for the info! I was not aware of a SNOP Pocket SNES, I think I'll give it a try. Maybe I should also try overclocking too. I wonder what type of overclock I can achieve with this thing. It has the exact same specs as the Kaiser, but half the ram. I was reading that the processor this thing has should be the equivelent to a 550MHz Intel, but I'm not sure how reliable that comment is.

I think the Mogul has a very good graphic chipset. While that really makes no difference with an unoptimized emulator, what are the possibilities that emulator coders will take advantage of the hardware acceleration?

My SPD Benchmark results are as follows:

Spb Benchmark index 311

CPU index 1611

File system index 123

Graphics index 4445

Just wanted to say, that I have tried looking for SNOP PocketSNES and have come up with nothing. On this forum, and on google. Where did you get this?

[Guest nothin]

Just wanted to say, that I have tried looking for SNOP PocketSNES and have come up with nothing. On this forum, and on google. Where did you get this?

oh god...not Snop - n0p : P : P newb ignorants.

http://n0p.tonych.info/?Welcome

you are welcome..

(xscale optimised).

you will find genesis emu, that is only thing, that can launch some titles that picodrive will never able to run(xscale optimised), and best pc/dos emulator so far(xscale optimised)...

pocketnses by n0p was ONLY thing that could allow me to run EARTHBOUND with 44khz sound max quality on 400 mhz xscale(btw hint: NEVER use interpolation,never ever).

btw, do gxmark test and tell me your results..

my machine, that was ok with n0p psnes had 1705 .

sry for being prick.. i am tired of reading all whinning antogoogle people..

Edited July 24, 2007 by nothin

[Guest Slerpy]

Try running a SNES emu on a Desktop PC at 400 mhz, and see how far that gets you.

Currently, the only PC emulator to actually have almost correct sound (note almost, not perfect) is ZSnes and bsnes. Snes9x, on PC, has had a update to 1.51, but even that has a pitch problem. And, most of these emulators require a fairly powerful PC to run fullspeed with no frameskip and correct sound.

Personally, I think you are asking a little too much out of limited hardware.

And lastly, I think a few people get angry on this forum because of the constant, constant whining from people who just can't be bothered to actually READ the damn forums, where they'll find the answers a hundred times. Not aimed at you, or anything, just a general observation.

Also, on my own HP Ipaq 2210, with a xscale CPU overclocked to 533mhz, I can run most SNES games at good speeds with a frameskip of 1. But then, I'm not too hung up about the sound, so I run with 8bit mono sound, to gain a bit of speed. With these settings, even some SNES mode7 games like Pilot Wings, runs superb.

[Guest HeXeDOSOK]

oh god...not Snop - n0p : P : P newb ignorants.

http://n0p.tonych.info/?Welcome

you are welcome..

(xscale optimised).

you will find genesis emu, that is only thing, that can launch some titles that picodrive will never able to run(xscale optimised), and best pc/dos emulator so far(xscale optimised)...

pocketnses by n0p was ONLY thing that could allow me to run EARTHBOUND with 44khz sound max quality on 400 mhz xscale(btw hint: NEVER use interpolation,never ever).

btw, do gxmark test and tell me your results..

my machine, that was ok with n0p psnes had 1705 .

sry for being prick.. i am tired of reading all whinning antogoogle people..

Nice! Thanks for the comeback with some solid info.. Even though you still have to call people ignorants... From what I've seen of your other posts, whining people seem to be the thorn in your side. fortunately for me, I'm not whining. People who whine are people who complain and do nothing to solve the issue. I on the other hand am trying to stimulate some discussion so I, and the rest of the forum goers can get a better understanding of the more technical side of emulators and optimization, ppc performance, and mobile chipset performance.

I just downloaded the n0p version, and it looks like it DEFINITELY fixed the sound issues I was having, but this version is certainly slower. Shadowrun foor example is running much slower, even without sound, than Masterall's version 1.52 WITH sound. I am going to look into overclocking my device and see where I get with that. Will update when I have something

[Guest nothin]

ahhh..sorry for "ignorants" really..

btw, theres something not clear with 16 bit sound though - maxxed out sound settings seem to work better sometimes, than slider in middle and 16 bits...i really was able to play big snes games like earthbound and chrono trigger with maxxed sound(NO INTERPOLATION!) on 400 mhz xscale(300 mhz machine OC'ed to 400 mhz).

2210 is really nice device, BUT, its performance is far worse, than ipaq 1940, it is sad a bit..

i am wondering, if 1940 samsung 266 mhz is somewhat similar to 400 mhz new samsungs - if so.. it may be HUGE jump in performance on new samsung cpu machines as we look at clocks... i cant find clear tests results so far...

btw, OMAP family processors are very slow with n0p's emulators.... genpp is very compatible(lemmings 2 tribes etc), but it is up to 30% slower, than picodrive...

shame..

(sorry for my funny english..)..

Edited July 25, 2007 by nothin

[Guest Slerpy]

2210 is really nice device, BUT, its performance is far worse, than ipaq 1940, it is sad a bit..

I wouldn't say it was far worse, certainly slower. GXMarks for the 1940 hover around the 1440 mark on a stock 266 mhz samsung CPU, while mine (admittedly overclocked) on a XScale PXA255 at 533mhz gives me just under 1200 on GXMark.

Now, this isn't bad for what is essentially a cheap second-hand PPC, far far cheaper than any mobile phone, and far better for emulation. I got mine, on ebay in the UK, for £45 inc cables, wallet, 1Gb SDCard. For that money, not a lot comes close to it.

[Guest nothin]

I wouldn't say it was far worse, certainly slower. GXMarks for the 1940 hover around the 1440 mark on a stock 266 mhz samsung CPU, while mine (admittedly overclocked) on a XScale PXA255 at 533mhz gives me just under 1200 on GXMark.

Now, this isn't bad for what is essentially a cheap second-hand PPC, far far cheaper than any mobile phone, and far better for emulation. I got mine, on ebay in the UK, for £45 inc cables, wallet, 1Gb SDCard. For that money, not a lot comes close to it.

oomph, mabne i was wrong a bit..

yup, older ppc's are really better for emulation - vide godly asus 620bt and psx emulation...or gba...

Edited July 25, 2007 by nothin

[Guest mikeeey]

oomph, mabne i was wrong a bit..

yup, older ppc's are really better for emulation - vide godly asus 620bt and psx emulation...or gba...

i sure hope that isnt bad news for the kaiser.. :)

[Guest dijital]

oomph, mabne i was wrong a bit..

yup, older ppc's are really better for emulation - vide godly asus 620bt and psx emulation...or gba...

Trust me the ipaq 1940 was a very special case, the memory contoller and ram speed in the 1940 were amazing for the time, no other ppc has lived up to the 'punch per MHz' that the ipaq 1940 gave.

[Guest HeXeDOSOK]

i sure hope that isnt bad news for the kaiser.. :)

Well, From what I can see is the Kaiser matched up evenly with the Mogul. My SPB benchmarks are neck and neck with the Kaiser. The Kaiser appears to be on the same Qualcomm processor as the Mogul, so from what I can see, there is no utility so far that is able to overclock these processors. I would assume this has to do with the fact that this processor is a dual core processor.

I will run the GXMarks benchmark and tell you what I found.

BTW.. Thanks for the info nothin, your input is very valuable. And I could never blame you for your english when it isn't your first language. Not bad at all.

[Guest HeXeDOSOK]

Just got finished with GXMArk, and my score is 1705 as well. That's slightly odd that it is 1705 like nothin's benchmark. Oh well... is 1705 good? What does that tell us? I'm sure I could also find a mobile Sandrasoft if anyone needs those benchmarks as well.

[Guest nothin]

Just got finished with GXMArk, and my score is 1705 as well. That's slightly odd that it is 1705 like nothin's benchmark. Oh well... is 1705 good? What does that tell us? I'm sure I could also find a mobile Sandrasoft if anyone needs those benchmarks as well.

hmm this is very interesting - 1705? Maybe theres something else - like sound system, or gfx driver/subsystem, that may make overall differences...CPU seems to be quite fast...

hard to say..

i think, that xscale optimised emus are working differently on your processor, i will upload several pocketsneses, and other builds/emus, to give you choice...i think that at last one of them may be faster, than n0p psnes..

i have >10 versions of snes emus, and n0p's port was fastest on xscale, but masterall's and another one is fastest on OMAP.

Download link soon.

btw, there's comparison page on gxmark's site, you can get overall insight(?) there..despite that it contains older machines mainly...

http://int13.net/gxmark_results.htm

i am crying whenever i am looking at it :) ...

there's small GAPI test soon, it is quite useful little thing..it may be interesting, if result is same again.

http://rapidshare.com/files/45174796/ARM_G...5_Beta.exe.html

try "video q. and memory blit test":

my result with 400 mhz xscale:

42.3 if i remember right.

with 276 mhz omap - 36.53

it won't show real differences between slow omap and xscale, but it may be interesting to see Your machine result..

Edited July 26, 2007 by nothin

[Guest HeXeDOSOK]

hmm this is very interesting - 1705? Maybe theres something else - like sound system, or gfx driver/subsystem, that may make overall differences...CPU seems to be quite fast...

hard to say..

i think, that xscale optimised emus are working differently on your processor, i will upload several pocketsneses, and other builds/emus, to give you choice...i think that at last one of them may be faster, than n0p psnes..

i have >10 versions of snes emus, and n0p's port was fastest on xscale, but masterall's and another one is fastest on OMAP.

Download link soon.

btw, there's comparison page on gxmark's site, you can get overall insight(?) there..despite that it contains older machines mainly...

http://int13.net/gxmark_results.htm

i am crying whenever i am looking at it :) ...

there's small GAPI test soon, it is quite useful little thing..it may be interesting, if result is same again.

http://rapidshare.com/files/45174796/ARM_G...5_Beta.exe.html

try "video q. and memory blit test":

my result with 400 mhz xscale:

42.3 if i remember right.

with 276 mhz omap - 36.53

it won't show real differences between slow omap and xscale, but it may be interesting to see Your machine result..

First off thanks for your help again.

I have downloaded that file, and ran the bench on my device and I come up with 44.36. I think the Qualcomm processor is supposed to be compatible with XScale instructions, but there is something about the way that this processor is handling the emus that leaves something to be desired. I know this thing is fast enough.. I just think since this is one of the first devicees to launch with this processor, people haven't been able to optimize their programs and code to take advantage. I could be wrong about that. It could be that they are not optimized to use the sound chipset on this thing and ends up taking too many resources from the processor.

I have noticed that the n0p versions have DEFINITELY fixed the sound issue I was having. But it runs much slower than MasterAll's. When I have sound all the way up, I can run a very decent framerate, but it's the sound quality that is horrible! It seriously sounds like my device had become possesed. Anyways, I'd like to keep this discussion open, and I would hope some of the "greats" of Emu coding might show up to discuss. If anyone has any better experiences running any other flavor os SNES that I do not know of, let me know!

[Guest nothin]

like i said, i will give you link with >10 snes emus/builds soon, theres one, that probably may be the thing you need - snes9xj4u, special version.

[Guest xaverok]

hey

I have a snes9xj4u and I heard its very fast even with sound! :)

but when i start it on my smartphone i cant do anything, i just can see logo screen <_<

I upload it so maby anyone can help...

Snes9xJ4u.exe

[Guest Slerpy]

Snes9xJ4u, is blazingly fast, I'm shocked. :)

On my HP Ipaq 2210, overclocked to 533mhz, I can run F-Zero with a Frameskip of just 1, sound 8bit 22k, and it's superb. Sound itself, is pretty poor, with lots of music & audio skipping, but I'm not too fussed as I'm just happy to finally be able to play F-Zero at playable speeds.

Just to add, just tried Super Mario Kart, and it's damn fast with a frameskip of 1, with a value of 2 it should be amazing. Sound is awful though, and skips more than F-Zero.

[Guest nothin]

Snes9xJ4u, is blazingly fast, I'm shocked. :)

On my HP Ipaq 2210, overclocked to 533mhz, I can run F-Zero with a Frameskip of just 1, sound 8bit 22k, and it's superb. Sound itself, is pretty poor, with lots of music & audio skipping, but I'm not too fussed as I'm just happy to finally be able to play F-Zero at playable speeds.

Just to add, just tried Super Mario Kart, and it's damn fast with a frameskip of 1, with a value of 2 it should be amazing. Sound is awful though, and skips more than F-Zero.

Yeah, i am glad to hear that, Slepry, :P i like when someone finds his emu at last...

btw

try frameskip 3 with better sound settings... FS is not exactly like it may be seen...i had extremely fluid gameplay with FS3 with sound...

xaverok, this is program made for WM2003 or even 2002 , not sm... theres nothing than can be done with that..

Edited July 27, 2007 by nothin

[Guest mikeeey]

Well, From what I can see is the Kaiser matched up evenly with the Mogul. My SPB benchmarks are neck and neck with the Kaiser. The Kaiser appears to be on the same Qualcomm processor as the Mogul, so from what I can see, there is no utility so far that is able to overclock these processors. I would assume this has to do with the fact that this processor is a dual core processor.

I will run the GXMarks benchmark and tell you what I found.

BTW.. Thanks for the info nothin, your input is very valuable. And I could never blame you for your english when it isn't your first language. Not bad at all.

well im sure XCPUScalar will add support to it soon after it's out. according to pdadb though they call it a samsung processor. why isnt it called a qualcomm processor? the 8528/TyTN had a samsung processor and it had a qualcomm chip, just not as good of one, and XCPUScalar worked with it. wouldnt you think XCPUScalar would already be compatible with the kaiser then?

Edited July 27, 2007 by mikeeey