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HTC TyTN II Annoyances


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WRT a couple of the points that have been made... I have not had to soft reset my device ever, except in the case of a couple of application installs ... never had a problem missing calls or losing the screen display ... sad to hear anyone having this type of a problem as it should NOT have to be the case...

The one bit of advice i have is... you have to be careful with Windows Mobile applications. There have been so many version of WM released (2002, 2003, WM5 and now WM6)... you should be cautious about what applications you install. I would wager that a lot of problems people have are due to some poorly designed application that gets installed on the machine! Caveat emptor! (and if you didnt buy it, shame on you ;)

Also, for the gent who had the problem with Wifi turning off when the screen turns off... my point to you is: why would you want Wifi running continuously when your phone is not in use? this will run down your battery HARD CORE even on power save setting.. id call it a feature not a bug... ? that being said, with my phone if i enable wifi and turn off the screen, then turn it back on.. the wifi connection doesnt change it still shows connected .. it DOES do a little blippy communication thing to show some activity when the display is turned back on though... you are using the HTC comm manager for enabling wireless, right?

stanchion

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Hi..anybody else have the following issue? ...

When using the phone, the screen goes blank during the call and the only way to reactivate it is to press the power button, which I originally thought was a power saving feature – which is ok, but I am a regular user of Windows Mobile devices in which usually the screen stays on to enable contacts, notes during the call.

Secondly, and most importantly – after I end a call, and exit the phone screen using “x” the top part of the screen “sticks” and the word “phone” stays where the “start” button should be. Leaving the start menu unobtainable. The rest of the screen is accessible – so if I then go into calendar from the screen and exit, the word “calendar” then sticks, again where the start button should be?? My initial response was to soft reset each time which became very annoying for a nearly £500 device. I then discovered a quick power off then on with the power button also resolved it – again not good enough for such a device. ;)

Any ideas? Grateful for any help?

Lee

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When I finish a call on the Kaiser the backlight goes off and stays off I cannot access the Start menu. I can access all other functions but backlight stays off and still cant get into the Start menu from anywhere. I have to press the power off button quickly once and then wait a second, press it again to be able to access the start button or the light to come on. This is definitely a bug in the tytn two and I hope HTC is doing something about this as it is very annoying.

After I posted (above) I just noticed you had the same problem. Is this going to become a theme or have we got the only two s*** devices!!

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One thing not considered here is how many people are getting problems after a specific application, or program has been installed?

Maybe there is an application that has the "potential" to cause issues, that requires a soft reset.

Maybe some WM5 software will not function or display correctly on WM6 ?

Just a thought.

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Hi everybody,

I've just received my Tytn II yesterday (french version) and it works very well (no problem with GPS, no SOD...) ... except the fact there is a defective pixel on the screen (a pixel which remains blue). It's not a very important problem but it's quite annoying for such an expensive device.

Do you know if this kind of default can be take in charge by the warranty ? If yes do you know if HTC will change the complete device or if they just replace the defective screen ?

Thanks for your answer;

Regards from Bordeaux (France) ;)

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Hi

I don't know if its reasonable expectation for us to expect a device as powerfull and complicated as the Tytn II running an advanced OS like Windows Mobile to run more than a day or two between soft resets. I think its perfectly reasonable for us to reset the device every morning which in effect switches it completely off and on again. I think doing this will mean that the device can be used reliably day in day out and at what cost? You have to reenter your PIN everyday, its like turning a normal mobile phone off and on again everyday which you wouldn't do but lets not forget this is not a normal mobile phone its far more complex.

My Kaiser can be used reliably each day without the reboot.

These devices aren't that complicated and we shouldn't be lowering our expectations regarding their reliability. I use servers/computers that run for months and months and are never rebooted, and those computers are running much bigger more complicated operating systems than the one sat inside the Kaiser.

If your Kaiser is locking up, it's either due to poorly written software/drivers or a hardware fault. If it was due to poorly written software and drivers we would all get the same issue, as we are not, it's a hardware fault on your particular phone.

Yes plenty of mobile phones have come to the market where they need a soft reset for one issue or an other every other day or more, but we shouldn't accept that, if we do, then the manufacturers are going to continue selling us phones/PDAs that don't work reliably. It's not in their interest to spend lots of time testing or tracking down problems if we are happy to "reboot" the device every day!

Thankfully my Kaiser doesn't need rebooting, if it did I wouldn't accept it. Your particular device is faulty, why accept that for the money these things cost?

Regards

Phil

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Hi

Hi everybody,

I've just received my Tytn II yesterday (french version) and it works very well (no problem with GPS, no SOD...) ... except the fact there is a defective pixel on the screen (a pixel which remains blue). It's not a very important problem but it's quite annoying for such an expensive device.

Do you know if this kind of default can be take in charge by the warranty ? If yes do you know if HTC will change the complete device or if they just replace the defective screen ?

Sorry to hear about your defective pixel. This is a common problem with LCD TFT displays although thankfully less so these days.

For PC TFTs manufacturer's often specify how many faulty pixels the screen must have before it is considered defective, some will say none, some will say several.

For smaller TFT LCDs such as those used on mobile phones I haven't seen manufacturers specifying the same fault tolerances, probably because yields are better and the problem happens much less. I would say it is unacceptable to have a single faulty pixel given the small size of the display and that you will use it close to you, plus it would be very intrusive watching a video for example.

I'm not sure what the consumer laws are in France, but in the UK we have the sale of goods act that gives us certain rights and we could return and get a brand new device for faults.

You don't want to send it back to HTC as this will likely take weeks to sort out.

Regards

Phil

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dont you just love that sale of goods act :wub:  im expecting my replacement TYTN II this morning. my fault turned out not to be from overheating. the fault happened even when the phone wasnt hot. at the end the screen when turned on was just white, i could hear the phone working but couldnt see anything but white. devicewire sorted my RMA withing 12 hours and picked it up tuesday and its getting deliverd this morning, thats what i call a good replacement service. I'll be using devicewire.co.uk again for my next purchase ;)

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If you follow the link to the TCPMP benchmark results http://blogs.shintak.info/articles/11359.aspx, at the bottom of the results page you have a link to each test file in blue on a green background (it just says XQ, HQ, etc...). It would be great if you could the test XQ one (I said HQ by mistake). That's VGA @ 1500kb/s.

If you click on it, it will play it, so you have to right click / save target as...

Downloading it now - I'll let know benchmark results later on.

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Hi

My Kaiser can be used reliably each day without the reboot.

Don't you think its good advice giving it a reboot everyday just to make sure, whats the reboot button there for if it isn't needed? You have had to reboot your Kaiser at least once I presume maybe if you had reset it that morning you wouldn't of needed to. Are you telling me you never had to soft reset your Kaiser having used it a week? In the 1 week I`ve had it - its either been on or on standby for the whole week and I`ve had to reset mine 3 times becuase of SOD and once becuase I got fed up waiting for it to connect to my network (all other times it connected fine). If you haven't had any problems thus far maybe its becuase you have been completely powering it down and back on again in other words doing the soft reset. I don't think there is anything wrong with my device and I believe all devices will behave this way I`m not sending mine back if a reset every morning solves any reliability issues. I am going to keep resetting my device each morning all week and see if its totally reliable. If its still not then I will accept that my device *may* be faulty.

Edited by Nick Le Lievre
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Don't you think its good advice giving it a reboot everyday just to make sure

Simply put, no. I managed to run my WM5 device for 18 months and the only reason I had to reboot once or twice a week was because I ran a lot of apps and there wasn't much memory, so stuff crashed the device. Other than that, it was fine. Wm6 on the Kaiser is already looking better than that.

I'd turn the question round and ask "on what grounds do you base your assumption that the device should be rebooted daily?". There aren't any. At most, I'd recommend rebooting once a week. But in reality, I'd say only reboot when either you get sluggish behaviour (possibly due to memory fragmentation) or if the device actually hangs.

whats the reboot button there for if it isn't needed?

It's there so you can manually power off the device, for example after a software install, or if you want to switch SIMs, etc. The button's primary function is to allow the device to be switched into standby (with a single-press).

Other than "it's good advice" and "I think it should be done" you've not actually contributed a single valid or sensible reason for rebooting the device daily. These devices are designed to run 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days/year. MS appear to have done a better job of making WM6 robust enough to manage this, and your assumption of the need to reboot daily is entirely arbitrary and baseless.

If your device is as unreliable as you suggest, you should return it and get a new one.

Edited by Webreaper
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Simply put, no. I managed to run my WM5 device for 18 months and the only reason I had to reboot once or twice a week was because I ran a lot of apps and there wasn't much memory, so stuff crashed the device. Other than that, it was fine. Wm6 on the Kaiser is already looking better than that.

I'd turn the question round and ask "on what grounds do you base your assumption that the device should be rebooted daily?". There aren't any. At most, I'd recommend rebooting once a week. But in reality, I'd say only reboot when either you get sluggish behaviour (possibly due to memory fragmentation) or if the device actually hangs.

It's there so you can manually power off the device, for example after a software install, or if you want to switch SIMs, etc. The button's primary function is to allow the device to be switched into standby (with a single-press).

Other than "it's good advice" and "I think it should be done" you've not actually contributed a single valid or sensible reason for rebooting the device daily. These devices are designed to run 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days/year. MS appear to have done a better job of making WM6 robust enough to manage this, and your assumption of the need to reboot daily is entirely arbitrary and baseless.

Well I`ll keep rebooting mine each morning and *if* I don't expierience another SOD then I`ll be happy. I don't care how you use yours and if you never need to reset it then good luck to you. All I`m saying is my device has SOD'd can anyone prove that is definetely becuase the device is faulty? Many other PDA's have SOD'd and it doesn't seem to be device specific which seems to suggest its a Windows Mobile problem - yes WM 5.0 and 6.0 and maybe even PPC2000,2002 & 2003. Why should I send mine back and risk getting another that does exactly the same thing with my usage before giving it a fair trial by resetting it everyday... if its then totally reliable then whats the point of sending it back becuase all I had to do was reset it once in the morning which took all of 60 secs.

Edited by Nick Le Lievre
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is it best to test the devices reliability by NOT resetting it everyday? the whole point of testing a devices reliability is to take it to its limits, not wrap it in cotton and never see what its capable of. i found the fault im my first TYTN II from testing it properly. maybe its becasue im a microsoft beta tester that i have adopted this way of testing a device and its os. i was taught to test by running scenarios, scenarios that put the device to its limits to see how it handles and test its stability.

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is it best to test the devices reliability by NOT resetting it everyday? the whole point of testing a devices reliability is to take it to its limits, not wrap it in cotton and never see what its capable of. i found the fault im my first TYTN II from testing it properly. maybe its becasue im a microsoft beta tester that i have adopted this way of testing a device and its os. i was taught to test by running scenarios, scenarios that put the device to its limits to see how it handles and test its stability.

I have run the device without purposefully resetting it everyday and have found what I believe to be a reliability issue i.e the phone occasionally does not come out of standby (you will miss calls) and forces you to do a soft reset. Now I am trying to ascertain if resetting it everyday prevents this issue from happening. Maybe it will in which case I don't believe the phone to be faulty. Some people will disagree and say that if the phone ever fails to come out of standby its faulty and as no one else is reporting the same issue this would support the view. I have a hunch however that resetting it will prevent it from happening again, or lessen the prospect of it happening greatly in the following 24 hours. I may be completely wrong and my phone is duff however.

Edited by Nick Le Lievre
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I have run the device without purposefully resetting it everyday and have found what I believe to be a reliability issue i.e the phone occasionally does not come out of standby (you will miss calls) and forces you to do a soft reset. Now I am trying to ascertain if resetting it everyday prevents this issue from happening. Maybe it will in which case I don't believe the phone to be faulty. Some people will disagree and say that if the phone ever fails to come out of standby its faulty and as no one else is reporting the same issue this would support the view. I have a hunch that resetting it will prevent it from happening again, or lessen the prospect of it happening greatly. I may be completely wrong and my phone is duff however.

i sugest you go to howardforums or xda-developers, it has been established that the problem with the phone not coming out of standby after a call is a bug that has plagued all of the TYTN II's there has been people working on that issue since the phone was released, its even been reported to HTC.

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i sugest you go to howardforums or xda-developers, it has been established that the problem with the phone not coming out of standby after a call is a bug that has plagued all of the TYTN II's there has been people working on that issue since the phone was released, its even been reported to HTC.

Its not after a call that I`m talking about... its when the phone is in standby (not after a call) and you press the power button and it doesn't turn on. It hasn't happened to anyone else here so it may just be my phone but I`ve got a hunch that if I reset it frequently enough (everyday for example) then it won't happen or will happen less. It happens when you put the phone into standby or let it go into standby after 2 mins and the next time you go to turn it on it won't respond. When the phone is in this state you will miss calls and only a soft reset gets it back up and running. Its a known problem with the Toshiba G900 but has happened to other Windows Mobile devices too.

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Hi

Sorry to hear about your defective pixel. This is a common problem with LCD TFT displays although thankfully less so these days.

For PC TFTs manufacturer's often specify how many faulty pixels the screen must have before it is considered defective, some will say none, some will say several.

For smaller TFT LCDs such as those used on mobile phones I haven't seen manufacturers specifying the same fault tolerances, probably because yields are better and the problem happens much less. I would say it is unacceptable to have a single faulty pixel given the small size of the display and that you will use it close to you, plus it would be very intrusive watching a video for example.

I'm not sure what the consumer laws are in France, but in the UK we have the sale of goods act that gives us certain rights and we could return and get a brand new device for faults.

You don't want to send it back to HTC as this will likely take weeks to sort out.

Regards

Phil

Thanks for your reply Phil !

I've written an email to the HTC's support to know if there is a minimal number of defective pixel for the warranty. I'am waiting for their answer. I'll post the result when I'll get them !

Yorik

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I'm thinking that the fact that there is 6 pages to this thread is linked to the reason that T-Mobile has slipped so far behind its original launch date of 8th September... hope they can sort out a few of these niggles before i get my operator branded version...

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I'm thinking that the fact that there is 6 pages to this thread is linked to the reason that T-Mobile has slipped so far behind its original launch date of 8th September... hope they can sort out a few of these niggles before i get my operator branded version...

Nah I doubt it a fair amount of these now 7 pages have been taken up by my complaint about the Standby of Death. No-one else has complained of this issue so you should regard my problem as the exception rather then the rule.

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Its not after a call that I`m talking about... its when the phone is in standby (not after a call) and you press the power button and it doesn't turn on. It hasn't happened to anyone else here so it may just be my phone but I`ve got a hunch that if I reset it frequently enough (everyday for example) then it won't happen or will happen less. It happens when you put the phone into standby or let it go into standby after 2 mins and the next time you go to turn it on it won't respond. When the phone is in this state you will miss calls and only a soft reset gets it back up and running. Its a known problem with the Toshiba G900 but has happened to other Windows Mobile devices too.

funny you say that. that very thing happend to my MDA Vario today. its not just a TYTN II issue, its another one of those windows mobile issues. it doesnt happen very often, maybe 2 or 3 times a month at very most. so far my TYTN hasnt suffered that issue but im sure i will eventually because its happened on the two windows pocket pc's before this one.

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Promised result of HQ Matrix trailer benchmark:

TCPMP Version 


Subtitle Edition


0.81RC1 Beta Benchmark Results




Average Speed				  63.61%


Video Frames				   3635


Audio Samples				  6679454


Amount of Data				 29888 KB




Bench. Time					3:58.101


Bench. Frame Rate			  15.27


Bench. Sample Rate			 28053


Bench. Data Rate			   1.0 Mbit/s




Original Time				  2:31.459


Original Frame Rate			24.00


Original Sample Rate		   44100


Original Data Rate			 1.6 Mbit/s




URL							\My Documents\RL_XQ_640x480_1500_128.avi


Size						   30605312


Platform					   PocketPC


OS Version					 5.02


OEM Info					   Kaiser


Clock speed					400 Mhz


Video output				   GDI 240x320 16bits Lookup


Video zoom					 640x480 -> 240x320


Audio output				   Wave Output 44100Hz 16Bits 2Ch.

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I have used HTC mobile phones since the HTC Prophet came out and have never had to reset the device unless a program (that wouldn't close) started using all of the memory and caused the device to act sluggishly. I could still make and receive calls even then. The only other time my phone is off is to change the sim or battery. If I had to reboot my phone each day I'd send it back. If I had to reboot my pc every day (or even every week) I'd scrap the whole thing and start from scratch. If I had to flip the power off to my house every day to ensure that it would stay on while I was gone I'd sure as shooting not find that acceptable either.

If you're really happy to have a device that dosen't perform as it was designed, more power to you. I'd consider it a terrible inconvience if I didn't know weather my phone was going to work properly untill I'd gotten out of bed and reset it. And upset would not begin to describe my feelings if I bought that phone off of you on ebay someday. Don't be surprised when it starts needing a quick reset twice a day, then every other hour, then every time you need to make a call.

I'd at the very least do a hard reset on your phone, remove the memory card and try it for a few days like that. That should confirm the problem being a fault with the device or the fault of installed software or memory card.

Just my two bits, I'll leave this alone now.

I have run the device without purposefully resetting it everyday and have found what I believe to be a reliability issue i.e the phone occasionally does not come out of standby (you will miss calls) and forces you to do a soft reset. Now I am trying to ascertain if resetting it everyday prevents this issue from happening. Maybe it will in which case I don't believe the phone to be faulty. Some people will disagree and say that if the phone ever fails to come out of standby its faulty and as no one else is reporting the same issue this would support the view. I have a hunch however that resetting it will prevent it from happening again, or lessen the prospect of it happening greatly in the following 24 hours. I may be completely wrong and my phone is duff however.
Edited by ipgenie
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