Diffs between Opern Mobile/Mini, IE, Skyfire, Firefox

[Guest jyalexop2003]

Can someone provide concise diffs between the various browsers

as it relates to Java-based, proxy-based, WM-based, etc.

I'd like to wait for Skyfire or get Opera mini but I read they are java-based and

run off a proxy server which makes them faster at the expense of security.

Is IE not proxy-based, but why so slow?

[Guest jonathanbaker1]

First...Opera Mini and Opera Mobile are two different applications. Opera-Mini is free and their are endless complaints all over the web about it. It seems to be fairly complete, but the interface is confusing and clumsy. I use Opera Mobile, which is a full IE replacement, costs $24USD and does everything in speed and style. According to Opera, both are the most secure of all browsers... but ask any company and they will say that. Opera Mobile uses real, complete web pages (full web is the default, but you can switch to the mobile version if the site has a mobile version, such a MoDaCo, Myspace, or Google.)

Opera Mini claims to speed up browsing by "compressing" the web pages before sending them to your phone. This screams proxy and security-issue to me. I have no security issues, since I'm smarter than to be doing complex shopping and banking from my mobile phone... or go browsing some pron sites for that matter. I don't think there is anything to worry about with security on Opera Mobile, and I'm pretty certain that it is a real Windows Mobile 6 application, not a Java app. I would drop the $24 if you're worried about security.

Everyone knows IE kinda sux.. I don't use it because it's ugly and the PC version has been plagued with security issues since day one. I won't even login to my colleges with it. I also do not believe it is a Java app or proxy squeezed.

Firefox Mobile was announced last October I think, but far from done. They have started up a Wiki page for people to keep up with developments. Right now it is going in two direction, touch-screen and non touch-screen. If it is anything like firefox for PC, then there will be alot of people switching to it and never looking back. Opera can keep my $24 but I'm switching.

Don't get the upcoming Firefox Mobile confused with Minimo. Minimo came out some time ago and probably has the most complaints on the web. It came out around the time of Windows Mobile 4.0 and never really took off. I think it's dead today.. One cool thing is the tabbed browsing.

[Guest thelostsoul]

First, Skyfire is not based around Java afaik.

But about the proxy issue...if you're using ATT and you're able to access Medianet, your phone is going through a proxy anyway (ATT's proxy). Generally speaking, logging into your bank account or other sensitive logins are considerably "high risk" on your phone. Always use caution.

[Guest jyalexop2003]

First, Skyfire is not based around Java afaik.

But about the proxy issue...if you're using ATT and you're able to access Medianet, your phone is going through a proxy anyway (ATT's proxy). Generally speaking, logging into your bank account or other sensitive logins are considerably "high risk" on your phone. Always use caution.

Thanks theostsoul, your input is awesome. A few more questions?

1. So really no diff between IE with medianet and Opera Mini since they both

rely on proxy, although mini is java-based and IE native WM.

But why is IE so supposedly so much slower if proxy-bases as well.

2. Does IE go directly to to web sites mobile web page if it exists. For example, if I go to CNN.com

or CNBC.com via my IE/medianet, will it go directly to the desktop website or the mobile site if they exist.

For Mini it goes to the desktop sites which is rendered via the proxy-server, correct?

3. Will Firefox be WM-native app like Opera Mobile or proxy like mini.

4. Skyfire I believe will be Java/proxy-based correct.

5. I read a new Microsft IE mobile browser comning out in the 3rd quarter. Perhaps I should wait?

[Guest thelostsoul]

I think your missing a few things here, so before I answer your questions, let me just explain something.

Java means it is run in an almost "virtual computer" type environment. It is like running a flash game in your web browser, it's designed for a different machine, but your device is capable of 'emulating' the machine that it was designed for. The fact that it is Java does not relate to whether or not it uses a proxy.

When you open Opera Mini, as I'm sure you're aware, you first much launch the "Java" application, which is really basically an emulator (though not technically). When you try to load a page, it first connects to Opera's servers, where Opera's server render the page and send your phone a compressed version of that. This compression enables Opera Mini to load pages much faster than browsers which do not do this.

Now Internet Explorer, by default, comes configured to connect to the "WAP Network." ATT decided to use the configuration to force IE to go through ATT's proxy. The only real advantage of this is that it forces IE's IP address to have whatever they set it to. This enables you to visit the MediaNet Homepage and the Cingular Video page, which are not real webpages (medianet = device.home). Yes, any data you transfer over this connection is still transmitted through another server, but it is not compressed, nor is it reformatted, before being sent to IE. You can configure any application to go through this proxy if you want as it is the full internet, but the only real purpose of it is to enable access to MediaNet and it's features, so other applications do not need this proxy. If you want Internet Explorer to stop using the proxy, press menu - tools - options - connections and under "Select network" tell it "The Internet" (with detect automatically always unchecked). You will lose access to MediaNet/Cingular Video, but it will no longer use the proxy. There is no real major advantage to this, however.

Now to your questions...

The first one I believe I answered already, but number 2: It depends. If the website is designed to detect whether you are using a mobile browser, then it will automatically forward you to the mobile site. Opera Mini attempts to identify itself as a desktop browser though, and IE does not. This means that if the site tries to tell if you're using a mobile device, Opera Mini will still go to the desktop version, but IE will go to the mobile site. Opera Mobile has a feature that allows you to identify as a mobile device or a desktop browser.

3. I think Firefox mobile is still a long-way's off. I would most definitely expect it to be native-WM because they stated they plan to release it "for WM," but I don't expect them to release anything for a really long time. As for whether it will be proxied, I would guess they are going more for a full, but normal browser, so I think it will render and load everything locally, no proxy. That is just purely my speculation though because they have not mentioned (to the best of my knowledge) whether or not it will be proxied.

4. Skyfire will be a native-WM application, but is proxied and loads website from their own servers. When they say "java support" they mean the website language javascript.

5. Yes, the new MS IE is part of the new Windows Mobile 6.1, and it features zoom in/out, and some other things, but it's still going to be IE. I've tried it on my older phone and it was still slow, but it does make IE a little more usable for larger website. I will still be likely using an alternate browser, hopefully Skyfire or Firefox Mobile, but Opera Mobile is still a good option vs. the new IE too. As far as waiting, I suppose you don't really have many options do you? I expect it to be released close to the end of the year, but what to do while you wait? hehe

Hope this post helps you out a bit...sorry for being so brief :D :(

Edited April 2, 2008 by thelostsoul

[Guest jyalexop2003]

I think your missing a few things here, so before I answer your questions, let me just explain something.

Java means it is run in an almost "virtual computer" type environment. It is like running a flash game in your web browser, it's designed for a different machine, but your device is capable of 'emulating' the machine that it was designed for. The fact that it is Java does not relate to whether or not it uses a proxy.

When you open Opera Mini, as I'm sure you're aware, you first much launch the "Java" application, which is really basically an emulator (though not technically). When you try to load a page, it first connects to Opera's servers, where Opera's server render the page and send your phone a compressed version of that. This compression enables Opera Mini to load pages much faster than browsers which do not do this.

Now Internet Explorer, by default, comes configured to connect to the "WAP Network." ATT decided to use the configuration to force IE to go through ATT's proxy. The only real advantage of this is that it forces IE's IP address to have whatever they set it to. This enables you to visit the MediaNet Homepage and the Cingular Video page, which are not real webpages (medianet = device.home). Yes, any data you transfer over this connection is still transmitted through another server, but it is not compressed, nor is it reformatted, before being sent to IE. You can configure any application to go through this proxy if you want as it is the full internet, but the only real purpose of it is to enable access to MediaNet and it's features, so other applications do not need this proxy. If you want Internet Explorer to stop using the proxy, press menu - tools - options - connections and under "Select network" tell it "The Internet" (with detect automatically always unchecked). You will lose access to MediaNet/Cingular Video, but it will no longer use the proxy. There is no real major advantage to this, however.

Now to your questions...

The first one I believe I answered already, but number 2: It depends. If the website is designed to detect whether you are using a mobile browser, then it will automatically forward you to the mobile site. Opera Mini attempts to identify itself as a desktop browser though, and IE does not. This means that if the site tries to tell if you're using a mobile device, Opera Mini will still go to the desktop version, but IE will go to the mobile site. Opera Mobile has a feature that allows you to identify as a mobile device or a desktop browser.

3. I think Firefox mobile is still a long-way's off. I would most definitely expect it to be native-WM because they stated they plan to release it "for WM," but I don't expect them to release anything for a really long time. As for whether it will be proxied, I would guess they are going more for a full, but normal browser, so I think it will render and load everything locally, no proxy. That is just purely my speculation though because they have not mentioned (to the best of my knowledge) whether or not it will be proxied.

4. Skyfire will be a native-WM application, but is proxied and loads website from their own servers. When they say "java support" they mean the website language javascript.

5. Yes, the new MS IE is part of the new Windows Mobile 6.1, and it features zoom in/out, and some other things, but it's still going to be IE. I've tried it on my older phone and it was still slow, but it does make IE a little more usable for larger website. I will still be likely using an alternate browser, hopefully Skyfire or Firefox Mobile, but Opera Mobile is still a good option vs. the new IE too. As far as waiting, I suppose you don't really have many options do you? I expect it to be released close to the end of the year, but what to do while you wait? hehe

Hope this post helps you out a bit...sorry for being so brief :D :(

Awesome info. Thanks again.

I think I'm going to get and pay for Opera Mobile thus not having to deal with the java issues.

I hope it is as fast as mini though?

I see Opera Mobile release is 8.65 but I read beta 9.5 will be available soon.

Should I wait for 9.5 or go with 8.65. Will it be worrth waiting for 9.5.

[Guest thelostsoul]

I'm kinda half expecting them to make 9.5 free, but just my own guessing, or perhaps wishful thinking....

As for speed, it's sortof an in-between of IE and Opera Mini. It does not use the proxy-based compression that Opera Mini uses, but it's a good deal better then IE, and it supports a whole lot more.

If you don't want to pay or you're not completely comfortable paying for Opera Mini, a possible alternative while you wait for something new would be jB5, which is free. It hasn't been updated in a while, but it's a lot like a sort of cheaper version of Opera Mobile, might call it an "Opera Mobile Lite Edition," because it supports and does just about everything Opera Mobile does, but it's a little shaky around the edges. In that, I mean there are some bugs, but most of which are negligible. You can find it at http://www.jataayu.net if you want to try it out before you go paying for a browser...