The official i-mate 9502 'Ask Paul' thread

[Guest netnerd]

7200A = same processor with minor tweaks to get round the broadcom patent issues. It's the 7201 which is the new, better one :D

P

are you saying the Imate 9502 has 7201? my imate 9502 is showing MSM7200

[Guest mikeeey]

are you saying the Imate 9502 has 7201? my imate 9502 is showing MSM7200

7201 is used in the US now.

7200A is supposably faster, being that it has a 520mhz processor.

thats why it really confuses me that it uses the 7200, same as the kaiser. can someone test...some emulators. not everyone here is a gamer.. however would REALLY help. right now the kaiser really struggles to play both masterall's picodrive and PocketSNES.

http://www.modaco.com/content/smartphone-s...ocketsnes-1-53/

http://www.modaco.com/content/smartphone-s...tpc-smartphone/

it struggles to play a lot. it definatly cannot play a 640x480 resolution video, and definatly cant play a bitrate over 400kb/s.

and one last thing, being that this is a 7xxx device, does it have the horrible touchscreen bug? when you press and hold the touchscreen it lags terribly.

[Guest Paul (MVP)]

Oh, weird!

The Diamond has the 7201A, which is why I got my wires crossed... :D

P

[Guest mikeeey]

Oh, weird!

The Diamond has the 7201A, which is why I got my wires crossed... :D

P

haha i know, confusing isnt it?

i dont even know if im supposed to be excited now when i see numberes involving a qualcomm device.

[Guest Menneisyys]

$899 for this?! Is this a joke? :D Better wait for the X1 or get a iPAQ 210 + Nokia N95-1 combo now - for the same price... Far better functionality in every respect, far more usable for multimedia, far better camera, a far better phone (also offering call recording capabilities), a 4" screen as opposed to a 2.8" one etc.

Personally, I don't like it very much. See my review if interested (it's been published back in February, just after MWC; this is why it may be a bit outdated):

Now, let’s see what new i-mate devices there are.

First and foremost: much as you may already have read it in my first MWC report, but it’s still worth repeating: i-mate is NOT returning to HTC but keeps on bringing out their own handsets, as opposed to the previous rumors. This is, in my opinion, VERY good news, considering that HTC’s current product lineup is pretty much unimaginative and straight boring (read: no VGA, no multimedia, no gaming).

(i-mate’s booth at MWC)

Now, let’s take a closer look at the four new devices they’ve brought out: the Xscale-based, high-end 8150 and the 6150 (the latter, having a VGA screen, also being high-end) and the Qualcomm-based, high-end 9502 and the lower-spec’ed (QVGA) 8502.

Dale Coffing and the VGA output demo

Windows Mobile (Pocket PC / WindowsCE) longtimers surely remember Dale Coffing and his PocketPCPassion, which, back in 2000...2002, was one of the most lively Pocket PC discussion board. During MWC, he mostly ran a demo of the built-in digital (as opposed to analogue) XGA (1024*768) output capabilities of the i-mate 8150 / 6150, thanks to the GoForce 5500 graphics chip inside. Dale has indeed been really energetic – he kept attracting a lot of people to watch his show.

(in his demo, he presented logging into a Vista laptop via the, in the 6150/8150, built-in Remote Desktop Client [see the Remote Desktop Control Bible for more info on it], displaying the remote desktop on an external screen and controlling it via a Bluetooth (ThinkOutside) keyboard and mouse)

He has emphasized these two models are the first phones with a built-in XGA output. He’s right – for example, HTC (unlike i-mate) didn’t really bother enabling the (analogue, VGA) TV output on the Kaiser (aka AT&T Tilt), even though the Qualcomm chipset does support it (more on the (vast) differences of the analogue VGA and the digital XGA output later). The two other phones with the GoForce 5500 built-in, the O2 XDA Flame and the Toshiba Portégé G900, didn’t have XGA output either. (The Flame only supports VGA-resolution, analogue TV output but not XGA digital. In this respect, it’s way worse than i-mate’s new 6150 and 8150).

Of course, you can still make other models display their contents on an external screen - for example, via Spectec’s new SDV-842 microSD card, which will also be elaborated on in Dale Daniels' article Can a Smartphone Replace a Laptop? in the forthcoming (April 2008) Smartphone & Pocket PC Magazine article (also see THIS for a generic overview of all similar solutions). But that’s an external, additional solution, with all its problems:

1. the SDV-842 isn’t particularly cheap (albeit still much cheaper than the old and no longer supported iGo Pitch Duo -Presentation Device): at Expansys-USA, it costs some $125
   
2. it doesn’t contain built-in memory, which may become a major pain in the back, particularly if you only have a device with 128M ROM.
   
3. it can’t be used with the (now, very few and low-end) phones that have their memory card under the battery (for example, the HTC Oxygen / s310).
   
4. storage card-based solutions are inherently more fragile than solutions based on built-in sockets
   

These problems aren’t present with the, so far, only Windows Mobile-based solution, the Dell Axim x50v / x51v, also having these.

And, of course, if you don’t mind it lacking a phone (because, for example, you use a Bluetooth external phone instead), you can still use the Dell Axim x50v / x51v as an excellent, digital XGA output without having to pay for anything else. I’ve elaborated on the Axim VGA output cables HERE.

Now, let’s take a closer look at the four models: the 9502, 8502, 8150 and the 6150. These are all pretty much different. While three of them have VGA screens, the underlying hardware is vastly different, making it very hard to choose the right model. I’ve exported (with a lot of manual work) PDAdb.net’s databases into one chart so that you can avoid having to compare these devices in pairs only at PDAdb.net. Incidentally, I really wish the excellent PDAdb.net folks added the ability to compare more than two devices at the same time.

The chart is HERE - DO check it out!

It’s really hard to select the right device. All of them have some disadvantages, while still boasting some really unique advantages.

Let’s start with the 9502, which is, unless you don’t need the built-in thumb board and/or absolutely need the XGA output and/or the FM radio, the, in my opinion, best of the bunch (apart from the major slider and screen design problems, which I'll elaborate later on): the 9502.

The 9502

First and foremost, let me elaborate on the (compared to all the other models except the non-high-end 8502) unique feature of this phone: the built-in thumbboard and my personal experience.

As you can see in the following comparative shot (comparing the 9502 to the HTC Universal / i-mate JasJar), the thumbboard (just like the device itself) is way smaller – I’d say the button pitch is about the half than that of the Universal.

This, unfortunately, means it’s far harder to type on the i-mate. While it’s still impossible to touch-type on the Universal, its thumbboard is, otherwise, excellent and allows for moderately fast text input. Not so with the 9502: with it, the buttons are unpleasantly small.

Compared to the BlackBerry 8800 (which I frequently use for entering e-mails and quick forum posts), I’d say the thumbboard on the 8800 can be used faster and more reliably than on the 9502. (Interestingly, while most BlackBerry fans state it’s the 8800 series that has the worst thumbboard of all BB models, I still find its keyboard speed good).

Another comparative shot, now, with the Nokia N95:

As you can see, it’s (only) slightly larger than the Nokia. (Unfortunately, it weighs a LOT more: 200 gramms as opposed to 120).

Let’s go further. The device is based on the 400 MHz Qualcomm MSM7200 chipset. It could be a little bit faster – some of the almost-already (they’re supposed to be released in March) devices like the Toshi G910 and G920 are both clocked at 528 MHz; so is the Sony-Ericsson XPERIA X1; of course, the latter will only be released later), but it’s still OK. I, unfortunately, haven’t had the chance of testing its video / multimedia / gaming / 3D performance so I cannot report on whether it has much better performance than the Kaiser / AT&T Tilt (remember the driver problems with the Kaiser and all the other Qualcomm-based, HTC-manufactured models?). At least, when navigating the OS screens and Internet Explorer Mobile, it was pretty fast – unlike with the Kaiser (without applying the very important, unofficial, IEM speedup CAB available HERE, that is). This also means it has GPS capabilities (not as excellent as with a dedicated SIRFStar III chipset, but still pretty good) and, unlike with the Kaiser, analogue TV output at VGA (640*480) resolution.

Let me a bit elaborate on the latter. Why I’ve emphasized this analogue vs. digital and VGA (640*480) vs. XGA (1024*768) stuff? It’s pretty simple. The two new i-mate devices based on the Qualcomm chipset “only” offer analogue and simple VGA-resolution output, while the two other devices, which are based on the Intel Xscale 270 + Nvidia GoForce 5500 combo, offer digital XGA-resolution output. You can rightfully guess, based on the resolution alone, that plain VGA output is much worse than XGA – unless you plan to play back movies, where VGA resolution is more than sufficient. (Actually, the current Windows Mobile hardware couldn’t even decode higher-resolution video – except for, maybe, the PXA320-based models if and only if they receive third party support from, say, CorePlayer, but 1. there are (and will be) very few of these models 2. it’s still not known what features of the PXA310/320 CorePlayer (will) support(s)).

But the resolution itself is just one side of the coin! The other, even more important difference is whether the output is digital or analogue. If the former (digital), the picture is crystal-clear without any problems. If the latter (analog), then, there will be visible artifacts on the output, which will be particularly visible on high-quality (non-CRT / non-TV-set) displays. Let me present a shot showing this:

(in this setup, the 9502 – more specifically, the TV output signal of its Qualcomm MSM7200 – was the source)

Pay special attention to the letters e, a and s. They are pretty hard to make out, aren’t they? Yes, the vertical resolution is pretty bad. Also, make sure you check out the boundaries of the uppermost, red banner. The red color heavily "blends" in the white background at the rightmost edge; as does the white background at the leftmost one. (The same effect is pretty much visible with the blue-backgrounded banner and inside the red banner with the white-red letter boundaries.) Not because the resolution is just VGA – the same text looks crystal clear on the built-in VGA screen of the 9502 but because of the analogue TV signal’s “blending” and washing consecutive rows / columns together. Now, compare this for example the XGA rendering quality of a digital video output – for example, with the shot above showing Dale Coffing - or the one below, showing the Programs in XGA resolution, via a digital output. WAY different, isn't it?

(note that, in this case, I've used a 1600*1200 image with JPEG quality=90 so that you can see there indeed isn't color blending with the digital output)

This inherent problem with the analog TV output isn’t a problem when playing back multimedia stuff (movies, for example – let me stress again that I haven’t tested playing back videos on external displays to see whether it’s quick enough [old CF/SD-based cards weren’t]), “only” when you plan to make, say, presentations. In the latter cases, you must go for digital VGA output – with as high resolution as possible.

The lack of the digital, XGA-resolution output in the 9502 (and, similarly, the, otherwise, much lower-spec’ed 8502) may be problematic in this respect. In this regard, the 6150 / 8150 are way better.

Major design problems with the 9502

Finally, something MUST be pointed out. In my opinion, the design of the sliding mechanism is VERY bad because it's only a not that large portion of the entire surface that is sliding. This is, among other things, that makes the thumbboard so tiny.

I-mate should have designed a handheld with a sliging mechanism similar to ANY other "sliders" out there. HTC (see most of their sliders: Wizard, TyTN, Kaiser, s710, s730 etc.), Nokia (N95-1 and, particularly on the N95 8GB / N96, where the slider is under the upper plate, as opposed to the N95-1), Sony-Ericsson (XPERIA X1), Toshiba (G900) etc. did manage to implement sliders that don't heavily reduce the dialpad / keyboard size; i-mate should have done the same.

Also, taking the overall size of the device into account (which isn't much smaller than the HTC Universal, which does have a 3,6" screen!), I'm not really satisfied with the screen size either. There are huge margins between the screens and the device edges. With a more clever design, they may even have managed to "stuff in" even a 3"...3.2" screen, which is way more usable on a VGA device, particularly if you're forced to look at small characters - either in true (native) VGA mode or in a program / environment that simply doesn't make it possible to enlarge the characters (for example, the Jbed MIDlet Manager + Opera Mini 4 combo.)

The 8502

Ironically, I find the 8502 much better-designed than the 9502 - except for the lack of VGA, of course. It's, as with all the other two (non-9502) devices, a non-slider device with a BlackBerry-like thumbboard on the front.

(8502)

(the 8502 and the 9502 next to each other)

I've found its thumbboard very good and, overall, the device pretty nice. (Also the MoDaCo folks, in their latest podcast, found it nice and much better designed than the 9502.) However, however... when you compare it to the recent devices, it's a bit both outdated and lacking in features. For example, I think the Samsung i780 IS a better choice - it's considerably lighter, has better (higher-resolution and, according to the HoFo folks, having much better outdoor visibility) screen, it's smaller, is already available, is pretty cheap (at least here in Europe), has a better, more capable CPU architecture (the new-gen PXA310 running at 624 MHz vs. Qualcomm running at 400 MHz) etc. Probably it's only at the standardized USB (recharger / sync) port and a scrollwheel that the 8502 is definitely better - and the more gaming-friendly joystick (not the game-unfriendly "optical" touchpad).

The joystick

By the way, speaking of the joystick on all the i-mate devices except for the 9502 (which has a "true" D-pad), I've found it pretty similar to that of the Palm Zire 71. That is, don't expect great controllability - "traditional" D-pads are clearly easier to use and, as they don't portrude, they don't have a tendency to get "caught" by, for example, keyrings. I don't know how it behaves in the long run. Zire 71 users may remember that, after a while, the the joystick in the Zire71 had a tendency to lose its sensitivity (in a random direction) - hope the joystick in i-mate's models are better. There are very few Pocket PC's with similar joysticks; probably the brand new Asus P750 (related MoDaCo thread, with some nice Russian resources, HERE) needs to be mentioned. I didn't have the chance to directly compare the joystick's usability of the three joystick-based i-mate's, the Asus and the Zire 71. But, again, don't expect much - D-pad-based solutions are clearly more convenient, particularly if you need to depend on it a lot (gaming or D-pad based constant scrolling, for example).

Let's return to the question of the 8502. The lack of the VGA screen means I (an über-geek that does want VGA screens) is a dealbreaker for me. But, probably, not for you (and you may find the 8502 the best) - check out the following section on this question.

VGA vs. QVGA on a 2.8" screen?

While opinions certainly differ on whether VGA is needed in 2.8" screens, I think if you (still) have a 100% eyesight, you'll want to prefer VGA to QVGA. However, you might want to thoroughly read THIS on this subject. Note that probably the best browser today (particularly for people with a slow / non-unlimited connection), Opera Mini 4, will only be readable under the, otherwise, pretty much inferior TAO Intent MIDlet Manager on a VGA device (because you can turn up the character size to any value in there with a hack); with Esmertec Jbed or other MIDlet managers, the characters will be hopelessly small on a 2.8" VGA device, even with the extra large setting. Also, you must be aware of the fact that many games will exhibit slower operation. Not all of them, though - for example, MoreGames Entertainment's great games (Orions, Nanobotz, Enslave) run equally fast on a VGA device than on a QVGA one. Examples are, in general, the not very well written titles from for example Beijing Huike Technology (see reviews any my VGA speed-related comments HERE).

These two devices (the 9502 nd the 8502) also lack the FM radio, which is built-in in both the 6150 and the 8150. Another bad piece of news for (wired) music freaks is their audio output socket size: 2.5 mm, as opposed to the standard 3.5mm jack on the 6150 and the 8150. Finally, both of these devices lack infrared. While many consider infrared a “dead” technology, I certainly disagree. It can come very handy in some situations, particularly when you try to communicate (exchange, for example, contacts) with a lower-end dumbphone not having Bluetooth. Also, the CIR (Consumer Infrared) module in the 6150 and the 8150 can come very handy at remote controlling for example audiovisual devices from far away. I still use my almost five-year-old (and it’s still going strong, except for the loudspeaker’s being burnt down – a typical problem with many iPAQ’s – and a brand new battery) HP iPAQ h2210 as my primary quick note / voice recorder device I always carry with me and countless are the occasions I found its CIR capabilities VERY handy (for example, in the McDonalds, to (secretly) turn up / down the volume of the TV). I’m very sorry for these features not having been included in the Qualcomm-based 8502/9502.

The 6150 / 8150

(6150)

(8150)

(the two next to each other)

Speaking of the 6150 and the 8150, they too have major disadvantages compared to the Qualcomm-based ones (9502 / 8502). First, they don’t have any built-in GPS. Second, they are built on the already-outdated Intel Xscale PXA270 architecture. What is more, it’s only clocked at 520 MHz, as opposed to the maximal 624 MHz; this is definitely very bad news for multimedia and emulation fans. The Qualcomm MSM7200 in the 9502 / 8502 is way more up-to-date, battery-friendly and capable. If I were the i-mate folks, I would have gone straight for the far superior PXA3x0 series. And, of course, neither of them contains a thumbboard. Many won’t see this as a problem, however, as the built-in thumbboard in the 9502 will be too small for most people. Again, unlike the one on the Universal – or even the Kaiser. Finally,

1. their batteries are slightly smaller than those of the Qualcomm-based models
   
   
2. neither of them support HSUPA, which may be a definite disadvantage if you would upload a lot from your handheld (used it as, say, a HSPA modem). Of course, they do support the downlink HSDPA - that is, if you don't want to upload (much) and/or you don't have access to a HSUPA-capable network, this problem won't be a real one.
   
   
3. their scrollwheels are somewhat less functional than those of the 8502 / 9502.
   

The 8150 has a numeric keyboard (dialpad) on the front, while the 6150 doesn’t have anything. I would have preferred a slide-out dialpad on the 8150 to keep the size down just like on the Nokia N81/N95/N96 or the HTC Nike 200, but, based on the 6150 (which is pretty much reminiscent of the HP Jornada 52x/54x when it comes to the active percentage of the screen and the controllers on the front of the device), it seems the engineers at Arima (the ODM manufacturing i-mate's devices) just couldn’t make the non-visible electronics smaller; hence the big, unused area on the front.

Speaking of the 8150 vs. 9502 comparison (I consider this the two devices to eventually pick from – if there won’t be better models out there, that is; which is, as it seems, highly unlikely), if you’re a frequent Opera Mobile or Mini user (currently, the two best browsers out there), you might want to go for the 8150 instead of the 9502. The reason for this is very simple: as has already been explained in several of my articles (see for example THIS), if you do learn the dialpad shortcuts of these browsers, they become quicker and easier to operate than Internet Explorer or anything else.

If weight is a concern, then, you need to be aware of the 9502’s weighing 200 grams. It’s considerably lighter than, say, the HTC Universal (the “real” VGA Windows Mobile phone up to now, weighing 285 grams - I don't count in the Toshiba G900 and the O2 XDA Flame in here because they're really-really buggy [click the links for bug reports and what people think of these models]) but is still one of the (if not THE) heaviest model of the current (!) crop of PDA phones – even the VGA ones. In this regard, the 8150 is way better: it only weighs 152 grams – that is, almost 50 grams less than the 9502. BTW, in this regard, the non-VGA 8502 is the best, “only” weighing 140 grams.

As can be seen in the following shot of the 9502,

it’s certain i-mate has gone for Aplix (Jblend) instead of Esmertec (Jbed) as far as MIDlets (like Opera Mini, the Gmail MIDlet or tons of sometimes really high-quality (like Simcity Societies) games are concerned) with the 9502. I am not particularly happy of this decision as, in general, I consider Jbed superior to Jblend. Fortunately, this can be easily fixed (if you’d also like to prefer Jbed if you’re a, say, heavy Opera Mini user or gamer) by just installing Jbed on the device. See the MIDlet Bible and my Opera Mini 4 tutorials HERE and HERE for more info. It's worth pointng out that the Xscale-based 6150 and 8150 are, on the other hand, Esmertec-based, as can also be seen in the following shot (notice the blue "e" "Java" icon.)

This is in favor of the 8150 (6150), unless you don't refuse to install Jbed on your device (or you don't plan to use Opera Mini at all - it'd be a bad decision because Opera Mini rocks, particularly if you master the dialpad shortcuts!).

Camera-wise, none of the new models excel. None of them has any decent lens (the heart of a decent camera - (mostly) NOT the amount of Mpixels the cameras have) or a Xenon flash. That is, don't expect anything comparable to the Nokia N95(-1) or, even better, the N82. I REALLY think Windows Mobile manufacturers should pay more attention to including quality (back) cameras in their models. Nokia's N95-1 is almost a year old and still, none of the new WinMo models can approach its image quality, let alone the mechanical lens protection. This is certainly an area where i-mate (too) should pay more attention to. Along with the other areas Nokia's entertainment-specific phones have always been strong at; for example, stereo, loud and quality speakers with built-in stereo widening (see my dedicated article HERE). Not "plain" SRS but something like the one in the N95 - at least when it comes to stereo widening of the built-in stereo speakers.

Finally, let me quickly elaborate on the question of the 3D hardware acceleration. It’s (still) not known whether the Qualcomm-based models (8502 / 9502) support it or not. The Xscale-based ones (6150 / 8150) (almost) surely do. This support, however, means the latter devices are only compatible with very few games / emulators out there (currently, only with Call of Duty 2 and GeoRallyEX). That is, most programs (again, mostly games and emulators) written for the earlier and much more widely supported Intel 2700G 2D / 3D accelerator (used in the Dell Axim x50v / x51v) will NOT make use the GoForce 5500 accelerator in the 6150 or 8150 – they are simply incompatible. See the current GoForce 5500 compatibility list HERE – as you can see, very few current titles support the chip. (Note that Kokak, the author of DoomGLES / HereticGLES, does promise support for the 5500 in his future DoomGLES / HereticGLES versions.) Also note that, while the Qualcomm is supported (to some degree) by the industry-leader video player CorePlayer, the GoForce 5500 isn’t and, as it seems, won’t be, at least not in the near future. (See THIS for more info on this question.) This mean you probably won't get flawless VGA playback on originally high-resolution videos, unlike with, say, the above-mentioned Axims.

Verdict

I need to admit: I have mixed feelings about i-mate’s new devices. I’m not sure whether I would at all exchange my more than two years old HTC Universal for a 9502 or an 8150 because the Universal is in no way THAT outdated (particularly if you take its EXCELLENT thumbboard into account - if you're a frequent texter and/or e-mail writer, you will just not want to get rid of the Universal, unless you use an external Bluetooth keyboard like that of iGo) and the new i-mate lineup isn't that revolutionary or considerably better than the old Universal. I think I’ll just wait for the newer and, without doubt, more exciting and, even more importantly, in most respects, more capable devices (most importantly, the E-Ten V900, the Gigabyte GSmart MS808 and the Sony-Ericsson XPERIA X1) to arrive. Also, I would keep an eye on the new Samsung SGH-i780, which isn’t a bad device unless you plan to play games (see THIS for more info on the gaming-friendliness of its touchpad) and/or need a VGA screen.

Of course, a lot depends on the price tag. If you can get these devices considerably cheaper than most, comparable (and, in general, more advanced) ones, you may easily forget the design problems (for example, the miniscular keyboard) and the, at times, heavily lacking features. We'll see the subsidized prices.

That is, I can't say I'm entirely satisfied with any of these new i-mate devices. This is why I wouldn't switch to either the 8150 or the 9502 from my current setup (Universal for heavy WinMo & touchscreen & VGA & heavy Web browsing / text entering tasks; N95 for everything multimedia, GPS and camera; HTC s310/Oxygen MS Smartphone for pure phoning (and nothing else) and the BlackBerry 8800 for IM / push mail / casual Web browsing).

(BTW, just a quick note. Some of you have asked me how come a Windows Mobile fan, MS MVP etc. like me uses BB for push mail / IM. The answer is simple: I must have a BB subscription because I need to be up-to-date with Blackberry-related questions too. For example, I've just offered Microsoft a hands-on, week-long course for enterprise clients on why the Microsoft platform is better for enterprise usage than that of the BlackBerry. [i'm an experienced lecturer; I've led several hands-on, 40+-hour, mostly Java programming courses as a contractor for Sun.] This is why I need to use the BB very actively - to keep me updated about BB, the news, new products, new OS versions etc so that I know what the BB is capable of, even third-party app-wise.)

If you NOW shop (that is, when the devices actually hit the shops - first, only with the Australian Telstra in late March) for a device because you don’t have any WinMo device already or the one you have is heavily outdated and don’t want to go for HTC’s current devices (because of, for example, the generic lack of VGA screens and/or multimedia / gaming-friendliness on all their Qualcomm-based models), i-mate’s devices may be worth checking out. However, make sure you thoroughly compare the feature sets of each phone to see which fits you the best. Again, there is no clear winner: all of i-mate's phones have lacking functionalities and there simply isn’t “best” of them. You’ll have a very hard time choosing from the 9502 and the 8150 if you want to look for the highest-end models. Hope my pretty thorough comparison of the (dis)advantages of both models will help you a lot in deciding which model to go for.

What next in my MWC Report Series?

(Un)fortunately, I still have a lot to write / report about. I'll post a very thorough report on the new HP iPAQ 210, the already-mentioned Samsung SGH-i780 etc. Also, I plan to post some other, smaller tidbits too. Expect my next, huge MWC article later this week.

UPDATE (02/27/2008):

1. HowardForums forum member nextel1996 has pointed out PDAdb.net is able to compare more than two devices at the same time; their chart is HERE. You may visit it instead of mine because it'll be kept up-to-date, should be there any changes, as opposed to mine, which I won't update now that PDAdb.net offers a dynamically updated chart.
   
   
2. You might want to check out HowardForums forum member maevro's post HERE. Maevro is an authorized reseller and he reports on his experiences with i-mate.
   
   
3. I've expanded (and partially rewritten) the article; for example, I added the "Major design problems with the 9502" and the "VGA vs. QVGA on a 2.8" screen?" sections.
   
   
4. PPCT frontpage
   

UPDATE (02/28/2008):

1. Minor article updates; for example, a new section on the joystick, MoDaCo's just-published podcast, which I heartily recommend. The latter also quickly elaborates on the i-mate lineup (more precisely, on the 9502 and the 8502 only). They, basically, state the same as me (9502: bad slider design, too tiny keyboard, too heavy; 8502: nice form factor, good thumbboard and, all in all, it all boils down to the question of the final pricing of the model: if the 9502 will be offered basically for free, then, it may have success, despite the major design flaws.
   
   
2. the Australian Telstra, which will be the first mobile operator to offer the new models (particularly the 9502), has just announced that the earliest date the 9502 becomes available is the 24th of March, but that isn't confirmed yet (that is, it can slip further). See THIS for more info.
   

[Guest Menneisyys]

Any chance you could comment on the video capabilities, i.e. how is the UI, video playback. esp compared to Tytn 2. I was looking at getting a vario 3, but if this remedies some of the issues from that (laggy UI, crappy video) I'll definitely get one, I can tolerate the ugly!!

Not very good (badly stuttering) if you'd like to play back hi-res (640-wide) movies - as opposed to most Xscale-based VGA phones. See http://www.corecodec.com/forums/index.php?topic=940.0

That is, your only choice is low-res (QVGA) movies if you don't want stuttering movies.

Note that a guy in the above-linked CP thread also states WMP in 9502 is able to play back hi-res videos without stuttering. As he still hasn't posted the actual encoding parameters, I'm not sure whether his statement is right.

[Guest Menneisyys]

Not out of the box, I think it [sDHC support] is easily fixed tho!

P

Currently, there's no fix AFAIK.

[Guest netnerd]

$899 for this?! Is this a joke? :D Better wait for the X1 or get a iPAQ 210 + Nokia N95-1 combo now - for the same price... Far better functionality in every respect, far more usable for multimedia, far better camera, a far better phone (also offering call recording capabilities), a 4" screen as opposed to a 2.8" one etc.

899$ is for people that dont know better! i got Imate 9502 for 780$ with 2 days shipping included!

better wait for X1?

the problem is most people DO NOT like to wait!

if u going to wait for X1, y not wait abit longer and get X2. or wait even a bit longer and get X3?

if u going to wait, u will never have anything! there is always somethng better comming alone in 6 months!

better get Ipaq 210 with 4" screen + Nokia N95? but does it fits in my jean pocket? i'm not a girl, i dont want to carry a purse with me! haha

[Guest Metoo]

Major design problems with the 9502

Finally, something MUST be pointed out. In my opinion, the design of the sliding mechanism is VERY bad because it's only a not that large portion of the entire surface that is sliding. This is, among other things, that makes the thumbboard so tiny.

I-mate should have designed a handheld with a sliging mechanism similar to ANY other "sliders" out there. HTC (see most of their sliders: Wizard, TyTN, Kaiser, s710, s730 etc.), Nokia (N95-1 and, particularly on the N95 8GB / N96, where the slider is under the upper plate, as opposed to the N95-1), Sony-Ericsson (XPERIA X1), Toshiba (G900) etc. did manage to implement sliders that don't heavily reduce the dialpad / keyboard size; i-mate should have done the same.

Matter of taste in my opinion. Personally, I hate the way the HTC type sliders make you aware the whole phone is quite literally split in half, so twists and wobbles (even if only slightly) while you're trying to use it as a normal phone. I much prefer the main body of the phone to be one solid piece, as it is in Qwertybars and the Sidekick. Perfect for those who like the SK form factor, but want a much higher specced device.

Broadly agree with you on the 8502 and joystick comments though. Controlabliilty and placement to me was fine but I've not had one joystick phone where it hasn't eventually given trouble - from early Panasonics, Sony K series, through to HTC Smartphones. I can't see how the i-mates will be any different , and that also one thing that puts me off the Asus P750 (as well as the apparently poor case-cracking build quality). The i780 won out in the end for me too (sic), and of course, optical control means just as much for the Samsung's MTBF as it does for PC mice.

Back to the 9502. I'm still looking at this for other applications where I need VGA landscape and qwerty. My only real concern are the negative comments by Paul and Steve Litchfield on the quaility of the D-Pad. In your opinion, is it that bad/unworkable, or can one get used to it?

[Guest NuShrike]

7200A = same processor with minor tweaks to get round the broadcom patent issues. It's the 7201 which is the new, better one :D

7200A = 65nm die shrink (from 90nm). For you non-tech heads, A die-shrink means faster and less power meaning less hot.

7201 = reworked to get around patent issues.

There's a few on xda-developers whom keep asking this question and don't seem to understand the answers.

Edited May 3, 2008 by NuShrike

[Guest Metoo]

899$ is for people that dont know better! i got Imate 9502 for 780$ with 2 days shipping included!

better wait for X1?

the problem is most people DO NOT like to wait!

if u going to wait for X1, y not wait abit longer and get X2. or wait even a bit longer and get X3?

if u going to wait, u will never have anything! there is always somethng better comming alone in 6 months!

better get Ipaq 210 with 4" screen + Nokia N95? but does it fits in my jean pocket? i'm not a girl, i dont want to carry a purse with me! haha

New ID? :D Actually I agree with you - Expansys i-mate pricing in particular is way over the top - 9502 £480, £400 elsewhere, 8502 £435, £372 elsewhere. Makes you wonder if that's deliberate in order to make their own favoured lines (e.g. MWg) look more competetive, and as a well known supplier, to try and skew comparative reviews?

As regards the X1, it does make me laugh how people lap up marketing machine's output and jump on the "next big thing" bandwagon for something that's months/years away, and then use it as a stick to beat up products that have actually made it into real life. Reality very rarely matches the hype when it materialises, as many have found with the 614c (and for tat matter the 9502) - both of which the same people have been touting for months as the "perfect" device.

I don't expect the X1 to be any different. Sure it'll look nice, and fashion victims will clamour for it (like they did for the diabolical Moto V3 and SE P990), but Sony's history in producing reliable firmware or fixing well documented issues is far from good.

I'd say, if your happy with your i-mate, enjoy it to the full - and don't listen to the vendor-sponsored nay-sayers. Reviewers often forget that people have vastly different tastes and needs, and the opinion of someone with a phone in their hand which meets their needs is worth far more than one based entirely on Photoshopped photos, pre-production mockups, and blurry YouTube video fantasies. :(

Edited May 3, 2008 by Metoo

[Guest shootydogthing]

Agreed. Until I have an X1 or a Raphael in my hands I won't be happy.

[Guest netnerd]

New ID? :D

forgot the password for original ID. tried to retrieve it, it said it send me a email. but i never received any email, or maybe it send to my really old email that i dont use anymore.

[Guest Menneisyys]

if u going to wait, u will never have anything! there is always somethng better comming alone in 6 months!

If you don't want to wait, get the iPAQ 210 + N95 combo - if you don't mind taking two devices with you. It's just an unbeatable duo much-much more versatile, faster, more powerful etc. than the 9502.

better get Ipaq 210 with 4" screen + Nokia N95? but does it fits in my jean pocket? i'm not a girl, i dont want to carry a purse with me! haha

The N95 does - actually, it's much smaller and lighter than the 9502 (see my comparaqtive shot above, where I've directly compared the size of the two phones). And you can put the 210 on your shirt pocket without problems.

It all boils down to whether you're ready to keep two devices with you. If you are, then, there're much better choices than the 9502. In my humble opinion, that is.

[Guest Menneisyys]

If you don't want to wait, get the iPAQ 210 + N95 combo - if you don't mind taking two devices with you. It's just an unbeatable duo much-much more versatile, faster, more powerful etc. than the 9502.

The N95 does - actually, it's much smaller and lighter than the 9502 (see my comparaqtive shot above, where I've directly compared the size of the two phones). And you can put the 210 on your shirt pocket without problems.

It all boils down to whether you're ready to keep two devices with you. If you are, then, there're much better choices than the 9502. In my humble opinion, that is.

... And, of course, whether you really need VGA. In 2.8", I find VGA to be pretty much useless. Much as I have very good eyesight, I'd prefer using VGA on at least 3.6" (HTC Universal)but, even better, 4" (hx4700, iPAQ 210). It's only on the latter that you can make use VGA to its full potential (reading original PDF files, using Opera Mini under Jbed etc.)

This is why I like the iPAQ 210 very much - it has a large, perfectly usable VGA screen, is comparatively cheap (half the price of the 9502) and is based on a (at least as far as real-world, existing sotware support is concerned) superior CPU architecture especially good at playing back hi-res videos (not something the 9502 is capable of). Throw in a decent, GPS- and HSDPA-enabled phone like the N95 you can use the 210 with as a modem and you have a killer combo.

[Guest xorangefirex]

The device really does not look very smart at all, hoever ther spec sheet will make anyone who bought the kaiser for $900USD be quite upset. Although it only had TV out and a VGA screen on the Kaiser, those are two high demand features and in combination make the device quite formidable

[Guest Metoo]

If you don't want to wait, get the iPAQ 210 + N95 combo - if you don't mind taking two devices with you. It's just an unbeatable duo much-much more versatile, faster, more powerful etc. than the 9502.

The N95 does - actually, it's much smaller and lighter than the 9502 (see my comparaqtive shot above, where I've directly compared the size of the two phones). And you can put the 210 on your shirt pocket without problems.

It all boils down to whether you're ready to keep two devices with you. If you are, then, there're much better choices than the 9502. In my humble opinion, that is.

If you wanted two devices, why would you even be thinking of the 9502, or any other"convergence" device? :D In that case what you need is go-anywhere (i.e. small) phone which excels for communications, and a larger multimedia add-on for when you have the opportunity/need to enoy it.

The N95 in no way fits the former category. The battery life sucks, it's unstable, fragile, and it's far too fat and heavy to share a pocket with a PDA, even when you're a cargo pant/fishing waistcoat wearing geek. Much rather an E51 which is solid peformer and brilliant phone (virtually an E90, and a worthy replacement for the ubiquitous 6310) in a super slim and narrow package.

Then perhaps an N800/810 for the big screen stuff. Blows the HP away, more fun, and it's an open platform under constant (and open source) development, rather than the "we've had your money, sod off" attitude of HP. Hell, unlike most other manufacturers, HP have already said you won't be able to upgrade to WM 6.1 on their "brand new" device. So much for paying a premium for big name in-life "support"!

Edited May 4, 2008 by Metoo

[Guest Menneisyys]

The device really does not look very smart at all, hoever ther spec sheet will make anyone who bought the kaiser for $900USD be quite upset. Although it only had TV out and a VGA screen on the Kaiser, those are two high demand features and in combination make the device quite formidable

The Kaiser has a far better and more usable keyboard...

[Guest Menneisyys]

If you wanted two devices, why would you even be thinking of the 9502, or any other"convergence" device? :D In that case what you need is go-anywhere (i.e. small) phone which excels for communications, and a larger multimedia add-on for when you have the opportunity/need to enoy it.

Yup, this is why I recommended a N95 + big-screen but still easily pocketable (unlike the HTC Advantage) VGA standalone PDA as a much better choice than the way overpriced and not-very-fast (see its multimedia performance, small keyboard etc) 9502.

The N95 in no way fits the former category. The battery life sucks, it's unstable, fragile, and it's far too fat and heavy to share a pocket with a PDA, even when you're a cargo pant/fishing waistcoat wearing geek. Much rather an E51 which is solid peformer and brilliant phone (virtually an E90, and a worthy replacement for the ubiquitous 6310) in a super slim and narrow package.

Let me disagree about your remarks on the N95, battery life- and stability-wise. Fimrware versions v20 / v21 are REALLY nice, delivering nice battery life etc. Of course, a slider will always be more fragile than a candybar like the E51 or an N82. BTW, if you need a non-fragile candybar, why don't you consider the N82? It has excellent multimedia features / speakers and camera and is great as a phone (that is, it's a perfect complementer of, say, the hx4700 / iPAQ 210) and is sturdy (non-slider). As a phone, it's too way better than most of the (non-Nokia) alternatives; for example, it allows for flawless call recording.

Then perhaps an N800/810 for the big screen stuff. Blows the HP away, more fun, and it's an open platform under constant (and open source) development, rather than the "we've had your money, sod off" attitude of HP. Hell, unlike most other manufacturers, HP have already said you won't be able to upgrade to WM 6.1 on their "brand new" device. So much for paying a premium for big name in-life "support"!

Well, while I think the Nokia Internet Tablets are indeed great, they're more for Linux geeks. For seasoned Windows Mobile users, sticking with a large-screen VGA standalone PDA could be better.

As far as HP is concerned, I'm certainly aware of their ridiculous upgrade policy. I'm, however, absolutely sure cooked ROM's will be released for it - just like with all 64+M Flash past VGA devices. (The WM6.1 for the hx4700 is, for example, a real wonder. BTW, speaking of the hx4700, it's also a very good alternative as a standalone PDA with a great, 4" screen.) The reason I recommend the iPAQ 210 (or the hx4700) that much is mostly because their price, which is (at most) half of the 9502 (particularly if you get the hx4700 off eBay for, say, $200).

[Guest netnerd]

The reason I recommend the iPAQ 210 (or the hx4700) that much is mostly because their price, which is (at most) half of the 9502 (particularly if you get the hx4700 off eBay for, say, $200).

u get what u pay for! a mercedes on average cost 80000$, are u going tell people to stay away from mercedes and get a japanese or american car that costs less than 25000? this message was created on imate 9502, I have no problems with the keyboard, it' perfect for me. my ONLY complain about 9502 is the external button, power button at the corner, it' much easier to press if it in the middle/center. ok, wireless button, or note, camera button, they too close together; sometime I have to look to make sure I got the right button. Edited May 4, 2008 by netnerd

[Guest shootydogthing]

Netnerd, I notice your spelling and grammar mistakes... I almost never make mistakes on my kaiser keyboard :D

[Guest netnerd]

Netnerd, I notice your spelling and grammar mistakes... I almost never make mistakes on my kaiser keyboard :(

that' because your Kaiser with QVGA is boring!

on Imate 9150 with VGA and hsdpa and hsupa.

exciting makes it easy to mis-spell words! :D

[Guest shootydogthing]

The only thing you have over me is the VGA screen. MY screen tilts, and I have HSPA too :

PLUS my device looks nice

Edited May 4, 2008 by shootydogthing

[Guest Menneisyys]

u get what u pay for! a mercedes on average cost 80000$, are u going tell people to stay away from mercedes and get a japanese or american car that costs less than 25000? this message was created on imate 9502, I have no problems with the keyboard, it' perfect for me. my ONLY complain about 9502 is the external button, power button at the corner, it' much easier to press if it in the middle/center. ok, wireless button, or note, camera button, they too close together; sometime I have to look to make sure I got the right button.

Come on... did you ever hold a hand a high-end Nokia N-series phone like the N82? The N95? Did you do the same to the iPAQ hx4700 (which, again, can be bought off eBay REALLY cheap and with WM6.1 it flies?)? Then, you may already know what you stated about "there's no free lunch" or "more expensive is always better" isn't necessarily true.

I'm recommending a hx4700 (or an iPAQ 210, if you need SDHC, USB host, PXA310 and the other goodies and can live with the major problems of the new model) because it has an astonishingly good price/performance ratio, particularly if you use it together with the N95 (or N82 if you prefer non-sliders). On a 2.8" device, a VGA screen is pretty much useless if you really want to make use of it. Not so on a 4" device like the iPAQ.

The hx4700 (210) + N95 (N82; or the E51 if you don't need that good a camera) combo is just far more powerful and versatile than the 9502 and still costs less. The only downside is the need fo carrying two devices instead of one and the lack of EDR with the Nokia phones, which results in an in-practice maximal Internet download speed of about 72 kbyte/s. Otherwise, the combo works just great.

The 9502 is just too overpriced for what it's offering - this is my point.

[Guest Menneisyys]

The only thing you have over me is the VGA screen. MY screen tilts, and I have HSPA too :

PLUS my device looks nice

Yeah, the Tilt is indeed very nicely designed. Not something one can say about some other handsets :D