The official i-mate 9502 'Ask Paul' thread

[Guest Menneisyys]

The device really does not look very smart at all, hoever ther spec sheet will make anyone who bought the kaiser for $900USD be quite upset. Although it only had TV out and a VGA screen on the Kaiser, those are two high demand features and in combination make the device quite formidable

BTW, you can also add both digital VGA (with XGA resolution at most) AND composite / S-Video output to the Tilt too - see http://www.spectec.com.tw/sdv842.htm (also linked to from my review). Granted, it's a card-based solution not as robust as a built-in one but, unlike the 9502, it does support digital VGA output - not just a bad-quality, low-resolution TV one.

[Guest netnerd]

The hx4700 (210) + N95 (N82; or the E51 if you don't need that good a camera) combo is just far more powerful and versatile than the 9502 and still costs less. The only downside is the need fo carrying two devices instead of one and the lack of EDR with the Nokia phones, which results in an in-practice maximal Internet download speed of about 72 kbyte/s. Otherwise, the combo works just great.

The 9502 is just too overpriced for what it's offering - this is my point.

my point is i want something that fits in my jean pocket! i willing to get hx4700 + N95 if u willing to carry the purse everywhere i go! :D

[Guest Menneisyys]

BTW, SDHC-wise, let me cite http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.p...p;postcount=108 (today's post):

"They are very aware of the MicroSD issues but they don't have an ETA for a fix/patch. The same things are happening with the 6150, 8150 and 8502 so it is in their best interest to take care of it ASAP.

If anyone ever wants me to say anything to the higher ups at I-Mate, just let me know. I email

their US rep all the time and provide and receive feedback from him. I am one of the authorized I-Mate dealers listed on I-Mates website.

There is a lot riding on the success of these 4 phones. You would think that they want to get it right."

I also heartily recommend http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=351788 and http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1263663 for more user opinions. For example, another link collection for video playback issues is at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.p...p;postcount=110 :

"If they're already working hard on the SD thing already, then just passing on the message of the crappy video performance thing would be amazing. Such a massive deal was made of the screen resolution and TV-out capabilities of the 9502, to find that it can't play video worthy of either is a massive let-down.

It is almost impossible to find a thread on the 9502 that doesn't end in "no-one will pay £400 for this because it has the same video problems as the Tytn II", so it will obviously massively affect sales.

Examples:

http://www.corecodec.com/forums/index.php?...msg5624#msg5624

http://forums.imate.com/MSM7200_video_drivers/m_1827/tm.htm

etc etc."

[Guest Menneisyys]

my point is i want something that fits in my jean pocket! i willing to get hx4700 + N95 if u willing to carry the purse everywhere i go! :D

OK, I didn't know you don't have a shirt pocket for a stand-alone PDA :( Then, of course, the converged way is the way to go. (It's another question whether it's really worth going, but I won't debate on that :o I fear the 9502 will have the same future as the O2 XDA Flame or the Toshi G900 - read: no real bugfixes, upgrades etc.).

[Guest netnerd]

I fear the 9502 will have the same future as the O2 XDA Flame or the Toshi G900 - read: no real bugfixes, upgrades etc.).

maybe manufactures dont bother to support O2 XDA flame or Toshi G900 cus it only got 2100mzh 3G, no USA 3G!

it doesnt sell much cus only countries with 2100mzh 3G will buy it.

[Guest Menneisyys]

How easy is the keyboard to use ie similar to the wizard or the Universal?

Not a bad looking device though.

Much less usable than on the Universal - just compare my direct comparative shot I took at MWC - the Univ has about two times larger thummbboard, thanks to its excellent design. There is just no comparison - the Universal is much-much better and you can thumb-type on it far-far faster.

The Wizard's thumbboard, of course, is far inferior to that of the Universal. While it's still larger than that of the 9502, I'd state that they're pretty much the same, usability- and speed-wise. At least for my not-that-big thumbs (I can perfectly and quickly enter text on my BB 8800 too, which does have a cramped thumbboard. Of course, not as fast as on my Universal...). People with large fingers may find the 9502 lacking in this respect.

[Guest Menneisyys]

maybe manufactures dont bother to support O2 XDA flame or Toshi G900 cus it only got 2100mzh 3G, no USA 3G!

it doesnt sell much cus only countries with 2100mzh 3G will buy it.

Let me disagree: the majority of the handheld / handset sales are made outside the U.S: in Europe and, mostly, in Asia. This is why, for example, S-E (Palm PDA-wise; not talking about handsets), Nokia, Toshi etc. have long left the U.S. (Albeit, with the X1, S-E is trying to making a comeback.) Take for example the Nokia N95: it's constantly receiving the latest stuff (for example, Flash Lite 3) and other goodies, even if it's almost not sold in the U.S.

[Guest Metoo]

OK, I didn't know you don't have a shirt pocket for a stand-alone PDA :D Then, of course, the converged way is the way to go. (It's another question whether it's really worth going, but I won't debate on that :( I fear the 9502 will have the same future as the O2 XDA Flame or the Toshi G900 - read: no real bugfixes, upgrades etc.).

I find it amusing that you spin this line one one hand, yet continually praise and recommend HP, who must be one of the worst offendors for not issuing firmware bug fixes or upgrades. If you're going to slam down manufacturers for lack of support, at least be consistent. Tosh did (eventually) release a new ROM to fix the major issues with the G900. Far more than HP ever did for the 69xx. i-mate have said they are working on an SDHC fix and are committed to issuing WM6.1 upgrades across their range. Unlike HP who say there will be no upgrade for any of their brand new products.

The hx4700 (210) + N95 (N82; or the E51 if you don't need that good a camera) combo is just far more powerful and versatile than the 9502 and still costs less. The only downside is the need fo carrying two devices instead of one and the lack of EDR with the Nokia phones, which results in an in-practice maximal Internet download speed of about 72 kbyte/s. Otherwise, the combo works just great.

Actually, the E51 (and N82) does have EDR. Plus, the E51 is faster, more compact (probably slim enough to share a trouser pocket with a PDA), easier to use (e.g. dedicated home, messaging, contacts and calendar buttons), has twice the battery life, and is almost half the price of the N95. Given your emphasis on value for money, I still can't see why you're recommending the bulky and expensive N95 as the phone part of a two box solution.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Metoo

[Guest netnerd]

it' all about convenience these days! i used to carry Dell X50v with 3.7" VGA and plain regular nokia cellphone! everytime i want to check emails or surf internet, i have to turn on bluetooth on the nokia! and when i finish checking emails or internet, i have to turn off bluetooth again on the nokia! i also have a bluetooth gps, when i want to use gps. i have to turn on pda and turn on bluetooth gps!

now with Imate 9502, i can do all those with just carrying 1 device!

[Guest Metoo]

it' all about convenience these days! i used to carry Dell X50v with 3.7" VGA and plain regular nokia cellphone! everytime i want to check emails or surf internet, i have to turn on bluetooth on the nokia! and when i finish checking emails or internet, i have to turn off bluetooth again on the nokia! i also have a bluetooth gps, when i want to use gps. i have to turn on pda and turn on bluetooth gps!

now with Imate 9502, i can do all those with just carrying 1 device!

Exactly. Outside of enterprise use and a few die-hard geeks, charging and carrying a standalone PDA around as well a phone just doesn't make sense when a smartphone will do everything from one box. If you're going for all that hassle just for better web browsing or video viewing, the Ipaq doesn't really cut it either. 4" 640x480 is still too small and low res for most sites without squinting or scrolling. IE, and WM's whole support for VGA is nothing more than a bodge and afterthought. Text entry of any length is still a pain. So you're actually gaining very little (and virtually no extra functionality) over a decent smartphone. And a so-called powerful VGA "Enterprise Handheld" with no built in GPS?

Which is why I recommended the N800 series for that situation - bigger screen, much higher res, decent keyboards (virtual or hard), and an OS designed to make full use of the screen - all in a box smaller than the 210. And no, you don't have to be a Linux geek to drive one - the ITOS front end is actually very user friendly.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Metoo

[Guest Menneisyys]

I find it amusing that you spin this line one one hand, yet continually praise and recommend HP, who must be one of the worst offendors for not issuing firmware bug fixes or upgrades.

1. They indeed announced they wouldn't release any upgrades for any of their recent devices. (Albeit I'll try to convince them to do otherwise.) However, I don't think this is a problem: cooked ROM's will surely be released, as was the case with the hx4700 and its excellent WM6.1 upgrade. And, except for the minor problem of the memory leak (necessiating a reset, say, every third day) and the CF power bug (not a problem for me as I've gone entirely the SD(HC) route), it has no major bugs either. (Except for the touchscreen insensititity, of course. This is why I'm still recommending the hx4700 too, particularly for people wanting to get the cheapest possible alternative.)

2. As has also been emphasized in my iPAQ 210 review (see http://www.modaco.com/content/pocket-pc-ge...n-depth-review/ ), the biggest reason for recommending the iPAQ 210 (or, if you can get it much cheaper / don't need the advanced features of the 210 / hatethe touch screen insensitivity or the thicker body, the hx4700) is the 4" screen. Were there be any comparable 4" devices, I would be recommending them instead / too. (Too bad there aren't. And the HTC Advantage is more of an overpriced, bulky joke with an even more laughable keyboard -even in the "improved", x7510 version.)

If you're going to slam down manufacturers for lack of support, at least be consistent. Tosh did (eventually) release a new ROM to fix the major issues with the G900. Far more than HP ever did for the 69xx.

NB: I don't and wouldn't recommend the 69xx. I'm only recommending either of the 4" HP VGA Pocket PC's because of their excellent screen quality AND size.

I simply don't see much point in having a 2.8" VGA screen. You won't be able to run Opera Mini on it (unless you use TAO, where you can hack the character size to be much bigger). You are pretty much unlikely to be able to make use of the high-resolution mode of IEM (or, for that matter, the default charsize of Opera Mobile). You won't be able to read PDF files without reflowing (which rarely works with, say, science books), utilizing the 640-wide screen. All this is possible with a 4" screen.

Then: what's the point in a 2.8" VGA screen, in the first place? To further decrease the video speed and render tons of (not optimized - unfortunately, the majority of at least action games aren't optimized for VGA devices; logic / card etc. games with pretty much non-animated screen contents, of course, don't exhibit bad speed problems) games unplayably slow? If you need a converged device, why don't you go for the HTC Kaiser (Tilt), then? It has a much-much better keyboard, it's somewhat smaller, has SDHC support and a VERY decent cooking community (which isn't guaranteed at all with the 9502) and is now considerably cheaper?

The TV out isn't a big advantage in the 9502 either unless you can put up with the inferior "quality" of the composite TV output on the 9502.

Don't take me wrong: I'm a BIG advocate of VGA screens. (Actually, i was among the first to purchase the e800 back in November 2003 when it was released. Good old days, the golden age of Toshi :D ) I now have several VGA devices (PL720, x51v, hx4700, 210, e800, Universal - did I leave out something? Hope not.) It's just that I love pushing my VGA devices to their limits that I assume a VGA device owner will want to run, say, Opera Mini or a PDF reader on their device. And, this is much-much easier on the eyes on a 4" device. This is why I'm recommending against 2.8" converged VGA devices (not just the 9502) and advocating going the separate route. (Albeit I do plan to purchase either the V900 or the MS808 mostly because of their TV tuners. Too bad the X1 won't have a tuner...)

i-mate have said they are working on an SDHC fix and are committed to issuing WM6.1 upgrades across their range. Unlike HP who say there will be no upgrade for any of their brand new products.

1. It's still not known if / when i-mate releases the upgrade (at all).

2. Surely I know the situation. Knowing the easily hackability of HP's past PDA's, however, I'm pretty much confident that ROM cookers manage to port WM6.1 / WM7+ to the 210 (and, of course, the hx4700) as well.

Actually, the E51 (and N82) does have EDR.

Are you sure? None of the Web pages ( http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n82-2177.php , http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=984 ) don't list EDR with the N82. The same stands for the E51 ( http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=988 , http://www.letsgomobile.org/en/cellular/1219/nokiae51/ etc.) Having A2DP doesn't mean it also has EDR - they have nothing to do with each other.

Plus, the E51 is faster, more compact (probably slim enough to share a trouser pocket with a PDA), easier to use (e.g. dedicated home, messaging, contacts and calendar buttons), has twice the battery life, and is almost half the price of the N95. Given your emphasis on value for money, I still can't see why you're recommending the bulky and expensive N95 as the phone part of a two box solution.

1. The N95 isn't expensive any more. According to AAS (see http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/ite...8GB_and_N82.php ), it's now around 280 pounds in the UK (incl. VAT); that is, ~60% less than the 9502. (As is the 210 - it's 350...450 US$; let alone the hx4700, which is ~$200 off eBay). Other European N95 prices are similarly low.

2. The E51 is more of a (light) business phone, while the N95 (or the N82, if you prefer candybars and Xenon flashes and you're ready to pay some 60 pounds more and can put up with the smaller screen and worse keypad buttons) is a fully-fledged multimedia + camera + gaming (N-gage compliant with even 3D hardware acceleration) phone. In this area (multimedia, camera, gaming), the E51 just can't compete.

My reason for recommending the N95 / N82 for the hx4700 / iPAQ 210 is because they're a perfect complementer for these two iPAQ's. They both have excellent, (in the Windows Mobile world) unmatched cameras, loud, stereo speakers (a no-go for WinMo phones - the WinMo phones that do have speakers are far more quiet and don't have decent stereo widening support, which is essential, let alone goodies like HE-AACv2 support out of the box), support call recording (again, most Windows Mobile phones suck at this too), gaming features (there're a lot of nice Java games simply not compatible with WinMo's Jbed - ever tried Command and Conquer 3 on the Nokia? -, and I haven't even mentioned the native N-Gage titles). Also, they have GPS, which, with the N95, became pretty decent with the firmware upgrades, particularly in assisted mode and have always been excellent on the N82. That is, the exact opposite / complementer of the business-oriented 210 (hx4700). The E51 is more of a business phone and certainly lacks in all these areas (for example, it doesn't have GPS at all).

[Guest Menneisyys]

Exactly. Outside of enterprise use and a few die-hard geeks, charging and carrying a standalone PDA around as well a phone just doesn't make sense when a smartphone will do everything from one box. If you're going for all that hassle just for better web browsing or video viewing, the Ipaq doesn't really cut it either. 4" 640x480 is still too small and low res for most sites without squinting or scrolling. IE, and WM's whole support for VGA is nothing more than a bodge and afterthought. Text entry of any length is still a pain. So you're actually gaining very little (and virtually no extra functionality) over a decent smartphone.

But we're talking about the VGA (!) (and accordingly (over)priced) 9502. With a 2.8" screen. Which is even worse than a 4" screen. Are you sure you wanted to post this in a 9502 thread? :D

And a so-called powerful VGA "Enterprise Handheld" with no built in GPS?

This is why I'm recommending a GPS-enabled handset as a companion: N95, N82 etc. I've found their built-in, free (!) GPS app delivering better and more up-to-date / reliable results in Barcelona (where I really needed them when I got lost at 10 PM) than the commercial (and very expensive) iGo on Windows Mobile.

Which is why I recommended the N800 series for that situation - bigger screen, much higher res, decent keyboards (virtual or hard), and an OS designed to make full use of the screen - all in a box smaller than the 210. And no, you don't have to be a Linux geek to drive one - the ITOS front end is actually very user friendly.

Yup, the N800 is indeed cool; the sole reason I'm not recommending it because:

1. I don't want to be thought as someone advertising Nokia on a WinMo board like MoDaCo :o (Most importantly: look at my real name and you'll understand why :( ).

2. I prefer a Windows Mobile main PDA because, to be frank, I don't have the time to learn the secrets of another operating system, so that I can learn what apps to get, right now. (Following the news on the three platforms I'm active on - WinMo, Symbian, BlackBerry - is already taking too much of my time. I just don't have the time for a fortuth OS. Of course, when the N800 and/or LiMo becomes mainstream, I'll learn them too.)

[Guest netnerd]

NB: I don't and wouldn't recommend the 69xx. I'm only recommending either of the 4" HP VGA Pocket PC's because of their excellent screen quality AND size.

I simply don't see much point in having a 2.8" VGA screen. You won't be able to run Opera Mini on it (unless you use TAO, where you can hack the character size to be much bigger). You are pretty much unlikely to be able to make use of the high-resolution mode of IEM (or, for that matter, the default charsize of Opera Mobile). You won't be able to read PDF files without reflowing (which rarely works with, say, science books), utilizing the 640-wide screen. All this is possible with a 4" screen.

maybe u have bad eyesights, it doesnt mean everybody have bad eyesight! i have no problems with 2.8" VGA. if it' possible on 4" VGA, it' possible on 2.8" VGA, both display the same amount of infos on screen, 640x480. y i dont get HTC tytn? because it' QVGA junk! i want to see more info/stuffs on screen! it' so much easier to surf webs or remote desktop on VGA compare to QVGA.

do yourself a favor, set your pc monitor to the lowest resolution, and see how difficult to navigate web pages!

Edited May 5, 2008 by netnerd

[Guest Metoo]

QUOTE(Metoo @ May 5 2008, 19:27)

Actually, the E51 (and N82) does have EDR.

Are you sure? None of the Web pages ( http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n82-2177.php , http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=984 ) don't list EDR with the N82. The same stands for the E51 ( http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=988 , http://www.letsgomobile.org/en/cellular/1219/nokiae51/ etc.) Having A2DP doesn't mean it also has EDR - they have nothing to do with each other.

http://europe.nokia.com/A4546209

The E51 has EDR because it is designed to be used as a modem to provide comms to a larger device.

[Edit: but apparently not the N82 - just shows you can't trust 3rd party rumour based sites, shops or reviews!]

But we're talking about the VGA (!) (and accordingly (over)priced) 9502. With a 2.8" screen. Which is even worse than a 4" screen. Are you sure you wanted to post this in a 9502 thread?

Yes indeed - since you went OT by pushing the two box option as a valid reason why everyone should avoid 9502 (and then any other VGA phone), I thought it only fair to point out how little your recommended (and extremely bulky) combination actually brings to the table for the inconvenience, especially for web browsing. WM and IE is still dire on 4" VGA, bearing in mind that most web sites are designed for a minimum of 800x600 or 1024x768. WVGA vastly improves that experience, even on a smaller screen, simply from the reduced horizontal scrolling and reformatting (which WM does very badly). Whilst your solution may appeal to some, not everyone wants to look like a complete nerd, with gadgets bulging out of every pocket, least of all those whose age means their eyes have yet to be affected by gradual loss of near vision :D So if anything's out of place in a 9502 thread, it's the repeated assertion that one should not buy VGA smartphones at all because trouser and shirt pockets fully loaded with silicon armoury is the only way! :(

Edited May 6, 2008 by Metoo

[Guest netnerd]

it sure is lots to carry! u carry 4" pda in shirt pocket, cellphone in jean pocket, keys in jean pocket, and wallet in jean pocket! if u bend over to pick up something or in a hurry and need to run, that pda in your shirt pocket will pop out and drops to the ground!

[Guest Menneisyys]

http://europe.nokia.com/A4546209

The E51 has EDR because it is designed to be used as a modem to provide comms to a larger device.

[Edit: but apparently not the N82 - just shows you can't trust 3rd party rumour based sites, shops or reviews!]

Thanks - good to know the PDAdb.net and the other spec list is faulty. Support for EDR if your operator offers HSDPA can be very handy.

Yes indeed - since you went OT by pushing the two box option as a valid reason why everyone should avoid 9502 (and then any other VGA phone), I thought it only fair to point out how little your recommended (and extremely bulky) combination actually brings to the table for the inconvenience, especially for web browsing. WM and IE is still dire on 4" VGA, bearing in mind that most web sites are designed for a minimum of 800x600 or 1024x768. WVGA vastly improves that experience, even on a smaller screen, simply from the reduced horizontal scrolling and reformatting (which WM does very badly). Whilst your solution may appeal to some, not everyone wants to look like a complete nerd, with gadgets bulging out of every pocket, least of all those whose age means their eyes have yet to be affected by gradual loss of near vision :D So if anything's out of place in a 9502 thread, it's the repeated assertion that one should not buy VGA smartphones at all because trouser and shirt pockets fully loaded with silicon armoury is the only way! :(

There are a lot of alternatives to IEM (Opera Mini / Mobile, for example); they all excel at rendering the original layout very well even on VGA devices. BTW, IEM in high-resolution mode (if you explicitly switch it to use it) delivers pretty good results too. You'll end up having to scroll horizontally very rarely, if ever; particularly in Landscape mode.

However, all these browsers use damn small characters, when it becomes extremely important to have as large screen as possible. Sure, you can see such miniature characters on a 2.8" VGA screen too; I'm just afraid it'll have a detrimental effect on your eyesight if you do it for an extended time. This is why I'm questioning whether it's worth using a 2.8" VGA screen at all. While there is a huge difference between QVGA and VGA over 3.5", the difference is not so pronounced at lower sizes.

Note that I have nothing against i-mate - except for its very high price. Should it be sold at, say, $500, I wouldn't be recommending a separate solution (or even the Kaiser) instead. (This was, incidentally, my verdict too in my MWC i-mate report pasted in above.) At $800-900, however, I consider it pretty bad value for money - this is why I've came here to explain you can have far better, far more eye-friendly options for approximately the same amount of money.

[Guest Menneisyys]

it sure is lots to carry! u carry 4" pda in shirt pocket, cellphone in jean pocket, keys in jean pocket, and wallet in jean pocket! if u bend over to pick up something or in a hurry and need to run, that pda in your shirt pocket will pop out and drops to the ground!

Use a non-slippery leather case - it'll pretty much guarantee it won't fell out. Or, never bend over but crouch / sit on your heels to pick up something. (If you don't get what I mean, let me know and I try to explain it in another way. My native tongue isn't English and, therefore, you may have a hard time understanding what I write.)

[Guest netnerd]

Note that I have nothing against i-mate - except for its very high price. Should it be sold at, say, $500, I wouldn't be recommending a separate solution (or even the Kaiser) instead. (This was, incidentally, my verdict too in my MWC i-mate report pasted in above.) At $800-900, however, I consider it pretty bad value for money - this is why I've came here to explain you can have far better, far more eye-friendly options for approximately the same amount of money.

again, u get what u pay for! there are shoes and clothes that costs over 100$ each, where u can get something similar for far less prices at walmart!

a few years ago, when i was at LasVegas, i have a steak and my gf has a smoked salmon, total costs 80 buk!, where i can get the something and tastes just as good as Denny's for less then 20 dollars!

[Guest netnerd]

Use a non-slippery leather case - it'll pretty much guarantee it won't fell out. Or, never bend over but crouch / sit on your heels to pick up something. (If you don't get what I mean, let me know and I try to explain it in another way. My native tongue isn't English and, therefore, you may have a hard time understanding what I write.)

is this still the year 1999? should i also carry a separate bluetooth gps, separate mp3 player, and separate digital camera where ever i go?

[Guest Menneisyys]

is this still the year 1999? should i also carry a separate bluetooth gps, separate mp3 player, and separate digital camera where ever i go?

1. Nope, the latter (MP3 player, GPS, excellent digital & video camera) are all in the N95 (N82 etc.)

2. you don't seem to get the point. I'm not recommending the 9502 at its current price. Why? because, if you do have two pockets, you can get FAR better quality, FAR more functionality, a FAR better screen, a FAR better camera, a FAR better phone, FAR better gaming capabilities for the same price if you go the separate device route.

I just don't see the point in paying $800...$900 for a not very advanced converged VGA 2.8" handset when, for the same price, you can get far better quality & usability. If you, of course, don't strictly need a converged device. If you do, then, of course, go the 9502 (or the Kaiser / Tilt or the new HTC VGA phones) way.

[Guest Menneisyys]

again, u get what u pay for! there are shoes and clothes that costs over 100$ each, where u can get something similar for far less prices at walmart!

a few years ago, when i was at LasVegas, i have a steak and my gf has a smoked salmon, total costs 80 buk!, where i can get the something and tastes just as good as Denny's for less then 20 dollars!

What do you get for $800-$900? A device that doesn't even support SDHC and has a really badly designed keyboard (with a bit more clever design, the keyboard could be 1.5 times larger)?

The N95's / iPAQ hx4700's / iPAQ 210's costing half the price of the 9502 doesn't mean they are half as good as the 9502...

[Guest Metoo]

What do you get for $800-$900? A device that doesn't even support SDHC and has a really badly designed keyboard (with a bit more clever design, the keyboard could be 1.5 times larger)?

We don't know that the SDHC issue won't be fixed. And, despite what you say, some people actually like the solidity of the 9502 design and the way that just the screen moves instead of half the entire phone.

2. you don't seem to get the point. I'm not recommending the 9502 at its current price. Why? because, if you do have two pockets, you can get FAR better quality, FAR more functionality, a FAR better screen, a FAR better camera, a FAR better phone, FAR better gaming capabilities for the same price if you go the separate device route.

I just don't see the point in paying $800...$900 for a not very advanced converged VGA 2.8" handset when, for the same price, you can get far better quality & usability. If you, of course, don't strictly need a converged device. If you do, then, of course, go the 9502 (or the Kaiser / Tilt or the new HTC VGA phones) way.

But the same applies to everyone's favourite, the Kaiser, which doesn't give you VGA, and is more expensive (even at Expansys' rip-off prices - TytnII=GBP489; 9502=GBP479, GBP399 elsewhere). And for that money, you could just as well get a basic 15" notebook and a cheap 3G phone.

Your (8202) review comments on how the i-mate joysticks have "a tendency to get "caught" by, for example, keyrings". Eh? That just shows how impractical your solution is to most people - no one in their right mind would put their precious PDA or phone in the same pocket as a bunch of keys (unless they were doing an OTT Sellavision advert for "invisible" sticky tape iPod protectors). A two box solution gives you no choice. (BTW, unless you want to look a right Dilbert, a tailored shirt pocket should be button closed and empty).

Different solutions for different folks, but I don't think that discussion belongs in a thread dedicated to the 9502 and how it compares to other smartphones. I don't see you posting at length in the HTC forums about how those devices are too expensive and pointless? Maybe i-mate are just an easy target because of their chequered past?

Good advice about the back though, drilled into me many years ago under "basic lifting technique"!

Edited May 6, 2008 by Metoo

[Guest Menneisyys]

I don't see you posting at length in the HTC forums about how those devices are too expensive and pointless?

Look around in the XDA-Devs HTC Kaiser forum :D I've posted quite a lot of "to tell the truth, I don't think Kaiser is the best solution" and "for the time being, I stick with my HTC Universal" posts there.

BTW, as far as the Kaiser is concerned, I mostly meant eBay / second-hand prices - a lot of people are trying to sell it because of the video driver issue. (Which seems to be equally bad with the 9502, so you don't lose much if you go for the Kaiser instead of the 9502)

[Guest Menneisyys]

We don't know that the SDHC issue won't be fixed. And, despite what you say, some people actually like the solidity of the 9502 design and the way that just the screen moves instead of half the entire phone.

Yup, nothing is known about SDHC. As far as solidity is concerned, I don't think full sliders like the Vox, the Wizard etc. would be inferior to 9502's design. When kept in the hand, spring-based models like the Vox is indeed a bit easier to accidentally open (or, at least, slide the screen a bit, which can be a pain in the back). However, I consider this a minor issue if you take the HUGE thumbboard into account.

Your (8202) review comments on how the i-mate joysticks have "a tendency to get "caught" by, for example, keyrings". Eh? That just shows how impractical your solution is to most people - no one in their right mind would put their precious PDA or phone in the same pocket as a bunch of keys

You can substitute keyrings with, say, loose textile threads in your pocket. Pretty common with men's (who don't pay much attention to their clothes' state) jeans.

[Guest Metoo]

You can substitute keyrings with, say, loose textile threads in your pocket. Pretty common with men's (who don't pay much attention to their clothes' state) jeans.

Hard to discuss anything sensibly with someone who moves the goalposts as much as that - I didn't mean keyrings, I meant cotton thread :D

Guess we're never going to agree, and protracted discussions about how convergent devices aren't up the job, and regurgitated self-promoting reviews, are just unnecessary noise in this thread.

Talking of which, back on topic, I thought the intention of his thread was to ask Paul anything about the 9502? Seems Paul has gone very quiet on the subject - even the post-opening answers where so brief to be to the point of unhelpful.

So come on then Paul, how about some decent feedback and answers to the questions posed, like this thread originally promised?

Edited May 6, 2008 by Metoo