Guest Paul (MVP) Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I think this'll hit between 500 and 600 quid... can't wait to get one. I actually plan to keep my Kaiser, for when i'm roaming in the US etc, what with the device being triband... P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WoD Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I don't understand why HTC does not put some quality lenses/camera on their phones. They are not cheap phones at all, and the size does not seem to be a problem (Diamond and Touch Pro specs are pretty similar, it seems to be a waste of hardware space if their difference in thickness is mostly/only the keyboard). They are not cheap phones, but would you want to be paying another X on top just to add a feature that would, ultimately, suck anyway? Even the best mobile phone cameras in the world suck. 3.2 megapixels, digitial-only zoom, no flash, and no macro-mode? Bletch. At the moment I can't see anyone using mobile phones in any sort of photography persuit that demands quality, so why worry about it? When phones start producing images like this: http://www.gadgetoid.com/wp-content/upload...05/r0011597.jpg I might give up the separate camera. For now, I'd rather the Touch Pro was as cheap as possible because it's certainly not replacing my digital camera! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ovie Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 My thoughts on the cameras are similar to yours - I was somewhat curious when my housemate (who knows a LOT of "useless" facts about almost everything!) told me that SonyEricsson were often only LICENCING the right to use the Carl Zeiss name on their own devices... So in fact, it's possibly a Sony CCD and Sony optics. Scary, huh? You can never be 100% sure exactly what you're paying for these days. I think it's true, I used to sell digital cameras and that's what I learnt from various training sessions, although it has to be said, they were all led by Sony's competitors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theroadwarrior Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 All the pics on the HTC site look like renders. It'll be there on the real thing I would assume? Saying that on my TyTN II, after I put my SDHC card in I think I've taken it out all of 3 times since I've had the device. No this link nitty: http://translate.google.com.sg/translate?u...en&ie=UTF-8 those arnt renders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xerxes Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 They are not cheap phones, but would you want to be paying another X on top just to add a feature that would, ultimately, suck anyway? Even the best mobile phone cameras in the world suck. 3.2 megapixels, digitial-only zoom, no flash, and no macro-mode? Bletch. At the moment I can't see anyone using mobile phones in any sort of photography persuit that demands quality, so why worry about it? When phones start producing images like this: http://www.gadgetoid.com/wp-content/upload...05/r0011597.jpg I might give up the separate camera. For now, I'd rather the Touch Pro was as cheap as possible because it's certainly not replacing my digital camera! Phone cameras are not (yet) designed for pro photographer or even hobbiests. They are designed for the 99.5% of people who would never think to put a camera in their pocket when they leave the house but would still like to be able to take a decent snap when the occasion arises. I use a Nokia N95 as my main phone at the moment but I would consider returning to full time WinMob use if the cameras were comparable. There are a lot of people who thing the same thing. By the way, there are camera phones on the market with real flash, optical zoom etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Syphon Filter Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 No this link nitty: http://translate.google.com.sg/translate?u...en&ie=UTF-8 those arnt renders Ahhhhh...I understand now Phone cameras are not (yet) designed for pro photographer or even hobbiests. They are designed for the 99.5% of people who would never think to put a camera in their pocket when they leave the house but would still like to be able to take a decent snap when the occasion arises. I use a Nokia N95 as my main phone at the moment but I would consider returning to full time WinMob use if the cameras were comparable. There are a lot of people who thing the same thing. By the way, there are camera phones on the market with real flash, optical zoom etc. Yeah I agree. I see both sides of the argument on this one. But seriously...what would it cost to put a half decent camera in this thing? Another £50 maybe? I doubt if that to be honest. HTC's can definitely do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbd Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Phone cameras are not (yet) designed for pro photographer or even hobbiests. They are designed for the 99.5% of people who would never think to put a camera in their pocket when they leave the house but would still like to be able to take a decent snap when the occasion arises. I use a Nokia N95 as my main phone at the moment but I would consider returning to full time WinMob use if the cameras were comparable. There are a lot of people who thing the same thing. By the way, there are camera phones on the market with real flash, optical zoom etc. My thoughts, exactly. And honestly, Touch Pro specs are so similar to the Kaiser's (with a few gains, and other drawbacks, actually), that if they put a camera like this even for a little more money they would give people another option, another real differential. They would have two more different products, for different people, who would prefer one or the other. The way it is, it is almost like eletronic/gadget obsession, nerdism having a Kaiser and buying the Touch Pro. But of course I and most anyone else here suffers from this disease... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blackice-original Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 My thoughts, exactly. And honestly, Touch Pro specs are so similar to the Kaiser's (with a few gains, and other drawbacks, actually), that if they put a camera like this even for a little more money they would give people another option, another real differential. They would have two more different products, for different people, who would prefer one or the other. The way it is, it is almost like eletronic/gadget obsession, nerdism having a Kaiser and buying the Touch Pro. But of course I and most anyone else here suffers from this disease... :D I'm 90% sold on getting the MDA Vario 4 but the only thing bothering me is the lack of quad band. Why did HTC have to take it out for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike1002 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) http://www.clove.co.uk/viewProduct.aspx?pr...93-68F293B46CFE According to this: HTC Touch Pro (TyTN III) (PRE-ORDER) Price £395 (£464.13 inc VAT) Seems the price has been upped now, still not that bad. Price £420 (£493.50 inc VAT) Edited June 5, 2008 by Mike1002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WoD Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I don't deny that HTC couldn't do a lot better with their cameras, the ones in my o2 Xda Orbit and now the Vario 3 suck beyond even reasonable belief... but I still don't really care. For those that do, I feel for you; it's clear HTC aren't hearing your cries and continue to cut back on this popular must-have feature. £464.13? Ouch. My other half needs to get a job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l3v5y Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 My thoughts, exactly. And honestly, Touch Pro specs are so similar to the Kaiser's (with a few gains, and other drawbacks, actually), that if they put a camera like this even for a little more money they would give people another option, another real differential. They would have two more different products, for different people, who would prefer one or the other. The way it is, it is almost like eletronic/gadget obsession, nerdism having a Kaiser and buying the Touch Pro. But of course I and most anyone else here suffers from this disease... :D What draw backs (other than the potential loss of tilty screen)? It's smaller, lighter, has a VGA screen, a flash, a bigger better keyboard, a faster processor, more than twice the RAM, and if the Diamond is anything to go by, it'll have drivers as well :( A better camera would be nice, but device cameras will never be as good as something designed purely to be a camera. The space for the optics is far too small, and things other than a camera a more in demand for a device such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WoD Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 What draw backs (other than the potential loss of tilty screen)? It's smaller, lighter, has a VGA screen, a flash, a bigger better keyboard, a faster processor, more than twice the RAM, and if the Diamond is anything to go by, it'll have drivers as well :D A better camera would be nice, but device cameras will never be as good as something designed purely to be a camera. The space for the optics is far too small, and things other than a camera a more in demand for a device such as this. Although the Vario 3/TYTN 2 is the first keyboard-sporting device I have owned, I can safely say that the loss of tilt would be a huge issue for me. It has quite a significant bearing on the ergonomics of the device and I don't often use it untilted. It's an issue far oughtweighed by just how, literally, shiny the HTC Touch Pro is, though. I would hazard a guess that the HTC Touch Pro is more likely to get you mugged... Gawd. I need to drag myself away from this thread and forget about it for two months! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l3v5y Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Although the Vario 3/TYTN 2 is the first keyboard-sporting device I have owned, I can safely say that the loss of tilt would be a huge issue for me. It has quite a significant bearing on the ergonomics of the device and I don't often use it untilted. It's an issue far oughtweighed by just how, literally, shiny the HTC Touch Pro is, though. I would hazard a guess that the HTC Touch Pro is more likely to get you mugged... Gawd. I need to drag myself away from this thread and forget about it for two months!Okay, so a battered ageing Prophet is probably the device least likely to get me mugged, but I still want one of these!!! I don't care about the muggings... They would only be temporary, but the warm shining glow of knowing I have a better phone than everyone else in my school would make up for that :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbd Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 What draw backs (other than the potential loss of tilty screen)? It's smaller, lighter, has a VGA screen, a flash, a bigger better keyboard, a faster processor, more than twice the RAM, and if the Diamond is anything to go by, it'll have drivers as well :D A better camera would be nice, but device cameras will never be as good as something designed purely to be a camera. The space for the optics is far too small, and things other than a camera a more in demand for a device such as this. Besides the lack of tilt, not Quad Band, half the hardware buttons on the front, don't know how many less buttons on the sides. Also it is not that much smaller or lighter (if it were more than 1mm thinner that will be a real gain - at least for men who has to put it in pants pockets). Concerning the keyboard, they seem to have optimized keyboard real estate but as they added another row of keys and the device is indeed a bit smaller the keys may be smaller as well, so keyboard seems to be better until usage proof, I guess. I also believe that the driver issue still needs needs to be corroborated by real usage in terms of responsiveness, video playback etc. But that's just OPINION, and is based on how one uses the phone. So it is fair to say there are drawbacks to some people. Although, of course, as I said, and you remarked, there are improvements, nice ones for sure. PS: And for me all these arguments only make sense if you have to buy the device from HTC. If I lived in Europe/US and could buy through a carrier plan paying as little as they charge for these devices with contract, I would pick it up and decide which one I liked better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WoD Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Speaking of buttons, one of the big selling points for me is the removal of the soft keys from the keyboard area. I often hit the ones on the Kaiser by mistake and I don't have particularly big fingers or thumbs; I'm just making an effort to type quickly. Number keys should facilitate that ever if the keys themselves are slightly smaller. I estimate the keys, based on the size of the device, to be some 7mm wide and 5-6mm high. Kaiser keys are 8 by 5. Also if you slide out your Kaiser you will notice that the amount of the device exposed is quite significantly less than that exposed in the pictures where the Touch Pro is slid. The kaiser has 10 rows of keys by 5 and the Touch Pro 12 rows by 5. You're gaining 19 keys which includes a larger return key and better placed soft keys from what I can see. Additionally the keybed on the Touch Pro runs closer to the edges of the device than that on the kaiser. Overall it's fair to say that the keyboard will be quite significantly better than the Kaisers and that the keys will not be significantly smaller. Guessing from the smaller area of device used to mount the sliding mechanism I would assume the Touch Pro does not tilt, and I think Paul's initial post confirms this? Two buttons are clear on the left hand side of the touch Pro, in addition to the power button on the top. There's no sign of a jog dial and I would assume it quite safe to say that such a control would be readily visible on the device. It's interesting to note that these buttons are mounted on the screen portion of the device, so they are still semi-accessible when the keyboard is slid out; they will be on the bottom edge of the screen in this state. Not as well positioned as the jog dial and two additional buttons you have under your right thumb when holding the Kaiser, however. I can't find a photo of the right edge of the device, so what's there is anyones guess. I would assume the MicroSD slot lives there and would hope there are more buttons. Touch screen is not the be-all-end-all of UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gorskar Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Oooooo shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiney, and guess what - my contract on my MDA 2 has just run out! I definitely think I'll be getting one of those puppies just as soon as t-Mob will sell me one :D The 640 X 480 screen is the real boon - maybe RDP will actually be usable now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr Who Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 The 640 X 480 screen is the real boon - maybe RDP will actually be usable now? The screen res is the thing for me. I put off getting a Vario III, over my Vario II, at it didn't add anything significant. I can really see the benefit of a higher res screen, so will be buying this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 The lack of hardware buttons is a bit of a shame for me too, I use the start / OK buttons all the time! P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djboo Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Oooooo shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiney, and guess what - my contract on my MDA 2 has just run out! I definitely think I'll be getting one of those puppies just as soon as t-Mob will sell me one :D The 640 X 480 screen is the real boon - maybe RDP will actually be usable now? having gone from a Universal to a Kaiser, i have to say the thing thats upset me more than anything is the lack of VGA - and yes, RDP in VGA is awesome - but LogMeIn is even better - if ur pc uses 1280x960 - it scales beautifully (VGA x 2 so ur pixel halving more than scaling as such) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DarkWanderer Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Well having looked at the pics and read all the posts I don't think I'll be going for one of these. It's a case of Want Vs Need :D The main off put is the lack of buttons on the front, I sold my Vario 2 a while ago (while they still fetched reasonable price) but didn't get a kaiser due to cost. I have a newly acquired QTek 8500 to use as a phone and a very ederly O2 XDA Mini S which I picked up for £26 on eBay, for the occasions I may need GPS (with BT GPS receiver obviously). I really miss the extra OK and Win buttons of my Vario 2 when using the XDA and it seems with all the buttons disappearing and more reliance on touch screen input on newer models, it's a step backwards. As someone else said "Touh screen is not the be-all and end-all". The more focus there is on touch screen and with the new ipod like control pad..... take off the keyboard, add a few GB storage, better wireless funcions and what have you got.... an iPhone running windows. Someone did actually say it would replace theit iPod in an earlier post! I know a comment like that may be throwing a cat among the pigeons and lots of people may get in a huff, but that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leaskovski Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 As this has got a built in FM radio and GPS, is this lickley to work with some of the sat nav packages so that we can get TMC working without any extra kit? On other WM phones that have an FM radio, is this possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike1002 Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 From what i understand FM radio works with supplied headphones only (?) Has built in GPS. And according to a post at XDA-Dev TomTom 6 works on it fine (alrgough iGO doesnt) Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l3v5y Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 From what i understand FM radio works with supplied headphones only (?) Has built in GPS. And according to a post at XDA-Dev TomTom 6 works on it fine (alrgough iGO doesnt) Mike. The FM only works with the headphones 'cause the radio antenna is embedded in the headphones. I'm sure there will be a company somewhere attempting to develop a solution, or maybe HTC will sell a headphone adapter that includes the arial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike1002 Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Thats what i hope, as my car radio seems never to work, so this'll actually be quite a handy feature. If they only allow people to use the stock headphones to get the radio then I dont think that many people will be happy :D Am trying to find out if the earphones are actually decent, but no-one seems to want to review them :( According to negrielectronics.com This product is expected to be in stock on Wednesday 25 June, 2008. Don't know if its just me as well, but the desktop accessory looks REAL nice, price at $57.50 on the same site. So £10 for the came and £30 for the cradle, not bad in my opinion. Mike. Just read that its likely O2 are getting this device aswell. With a re-designed back. Edited June 6, 2008 by Mike1002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Syphon Filter Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) The FM only works with the headphones 'cause the radio antenna is embedded in the headphones. I'm sure there will be a company somewhere attempting to develop a solution, or maybe HTC will sell a headphone adapter that includes the arial? The headphone cord is the aerial, there's no seperate aerial in there. The cord just acts as an aerial. This means any headphones should work fine, the problem is they have that fancy dan extUSB connector so you will need an adaptor/breakout or HTC headset to use regular headphones in there. The bundled headphones will be naff if history is anything to go by. Thats what i hope, as my car radio seems never to work, so this'll actually be quite a handy feature. If they only allow people to use the stock headphones to get the radio then I dont think that many people will be happy :D Am trying to find out if the earphones are actually decent, but no-one seems to want to review them :( According to negrielectronics.com Don't know if its just me as well, but the desktop accessory looks REAL nice, price at $57.50 on the same site. So £10 for the came and £30 for the cradle, not bad in my opinion. Mike. Just read that its likely O2 are getting this device aswell. With a re-designed back. I highly doubt it will be out by the 25th of June...if it is, you can be sure I will be grabbing one asap though!! Interestingly enough that site is reporting the Diamond as being in stock as is another site i came across. Weird, how are these US sites getting stock before UK/European suppliers? Heres the other site if anyones interested: http://www.smart-mobile-gadgets.com/welcom...alog/index.html Edited June 6, 2008 by Syphon Filter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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